Move Lists for Fighting Games?

[rtkiii]

Hey guys

Getting to the point of almost wrapping up my Cab build so I am doing more a data collection at this point.  I have various series of Fighting games that I would like to play.  After doing a test all I remember saying to myself and my buddy was "What the hell are the moves...I do not remember anymore."  So I went through the MK series and created a spreadsheet of version 1-3 listing the moves for each character.  It was fun to do but now I am thinking.  I should probably do this for all the fighters I have and find getting the data cleanly or consistently to be inconsistent and tedious at best.  Has any one made a site for this or something listing games and their moves besides the random fan sites I am finding around.  I do not want to have the need of the internet or an extra PC near my Cab.  Just hoping there was something I could print out or something.
Thanks,
rich

[BadMouth]

http://home.comcast.net/~plotor/command.html

Works with various UI versions of MAME or Headkaze's cpwizard.
http://headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=cpwizard

I've only ever used it with MAMEPlus. (Don't have it on my cab)

If I win the lottery and could pay someone to code the things I want, one of the main things would be a program that combines the info from command.dat and folders full of properly named images to create nice looking fighter cards.  They would be plain image files that could be printed out or used with another program on a secondary screen.

[rtkiii]

Sweet, I use Game EX and sort of use CPWizard but now that my cabinet does not have two LCDs and has LEDs to show which buttons need to be pushed I might stop using it.  I'll test it out tonight or tomorrow!

[rtkiii]

After doing some further reading it does not look like it supports my normal mame.exe that I use to emulate my games behind GameEx...unless I am missing something I'm not sure this is going to help.  Unless I figure out the CPWizard setup for this...nothing is simple 

[Howard_Casto]

http://home.comcast.net/~plotor/command.html

Works with various UI versions of MAME or Headkaze's cpwizard.
http://headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=cpwizard

I've only ever used it with MAMEPlus. (Don't have it on my cab)

If I win the lottery and could pay someone to code the things I want, one of the main things would be a program that combines the info from command.dat and folders full of properly named images to create nice looking fighter cards.  They would be plain image files that could be printed out or used with another program on a secondary screen.

You must have not seen my abandoned enhanced command.dat project from last summer then.  I quite working on it because it got next to no response.  The idea was to convert the dat into a more html-like format. 

Also I've been fairly successful at using a d3d hook to overlay graphics in mame.  I abandoned THAT because I was using a generic d3d hook and it didn't work on 64bit machines. 

These types of projects just aren't fun in the long term, tedious is more like it. 

But hey, I could setup a paypal account. 

[BadMouth]

http://home.comcast.net/~plotor/command.html

Works with various UI versions of MAME or Headkaze's cpwizard.
http://headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=cpwizard

I've only ever used it with MAMEPlus. (Don't have it on my cab)

If I win the lottery and could pay someone to code the things I want, one of the main things would be a program that combines the info from command.dat and folders full of properly named images to create nice looking fighter cards.  They would be plain image files that could be printed out or used with another program on a secondary screen.

You must have not seen my abandoned enhanced command.dat project from last summer then.  I quite working on it because it got next to no response.  The idea was to convert the dat into a more html-like format. 

Also I've been fairly successful at using a d3d hook to overlay graphics in mame.  I abandoned THAT because I was using a generic d3d hook and it didn't work on 64bit machines. 

These types of projects just aren't fun in the long term, tedious is more like it. 

But hey, I could setup a paypal account. 

I was there.   I made a number of comments in the thread, even pointed you toward some packages of the symbols. 

I just want a nice looking png file for each fighter and would use other methods for displaying them.  I've started a couple threads about agreeing on a standard size and just making them by hand, but nobody wants to put in that much work (including myself at the moment). 

I'll eventually probably just make a template in paint.net and make them as I get into different games.  Not the most efficient way, but it's what's within my abilities.  This is if I ever finish all my current projects which probably won't happen unless I lose my job and have all day, every day to work on them for a month or so.

[Howard_Casto]

Man on a unrelated note ie 10's auto-correct is really butchering my responses. 

why I "quite" indeed. 

[rtkiii]

Any ideas on how to get it to work with CP Wizard?  I DLed the file to my c:\mame...I only have version Mame 143...I do not have the plus ones...but I am hoping you do not need those versions if you have CPWizard.  I enabled everything in data but it just looks the same as when mame runs outside of GameEx and CPWizard.  I'm oviously missing something as usual.  I checked CPs site but couldnt find what I needed. I did find I had most paths pointed to the wrong mame folder but even after that change nothing seemed to be any different
thanks,
Rich

[MacGyver]

Too bad MAME just can't display a <gamename>.png file from a folder named "paused" when paused.  That way we could display whatever we wanted including pngs that have various move lists on them.
Crowd sourcing the pngs shouldn't take very long.

I can dream.

[Howard_Casto]

You'd have to do an artwork file, but it might be possible. 

The shifters in the aw files currently work by reading an input bit to toggle the image on and off.  I tested it by changing to the "5" key and sure enough, when the 5 key is held down, the image changes.  I couldn't get the pause key to work, but that might be because it's a global key.  In any event it wouldn't be difficult to add to the code base if somebody wants to submit something. 

[Le Chuck]

If somebody has a standard they want characters done from I'm happy to help.  Just need the example and I can nug out a move list or twelve.  Happy to help and I think this a great idea. 

[Howard_Casto]

That's kind of a problem in of itself. 

Command.dat, for example, really annoyed me because many of their symbols weren't exactly obvious.  Also their legends weren't particularly helpful.  They related the data to the names on the control panel, which would be great if those labels were actually in mame.  Sometimes they'd go completely off the reservation and make up their own constants that didn't make any sense. 

I guess what I'm saying is don't use the command.dat symbols. 

The Capcom games have a fairly obvious icon system... it won't work for every game (Namco, Midway and SNK all have their own standards) but the layout at least is fairly nice.  Let me see if I can find a link to one. 

[Howard_Casto]

http://www.donovanmyers.com/2011/06/super-street-fighter-iv-arcade-edition-english-move-lists/

This probably isn't the best example, but check out this page. Note where the moves have a physical separation and icons that are easily readable and lower res, ect... Also the moves are color coded, standard moves are one color, advanced are another, ect....

They used to do another one where one line was white and the next was colored to keep the move sets from running together... I liked that one as it was more compact. 

In regards to displaying it in game, we have a few options right now, but they are rather hackish.  Mame recently added the ability to change artwork by clicking on it.  If you have a trackball this is certainly a viable method.  I'm not sure if the "click" has to occur via a actual mouse button or not.  Also every game has a service button... we could link the visibility to the service button and it would display while it's held down... the only issue there is the service button often inserts coins. 

[MacGyver]

That's why pictures are great, for arcade cabinets that is, and anyone can change them if the mood strikes, plus a picture always just works.  I used to "play" with C++ ages ago, but wouldn't know where to start to have a png displayed in front of the pause screen.  If one was so inclined, animated Gifs would be a fancy feature in a move list.

[BadMouth]

Strategywiki.org had a package a package of the symbols available for download somewhere on their site and a fairly open license IIRC.
Sorry, but I'm in a bit of a hurry and don't have the time to track it down at the moment.

Personally, I like the longhand version rather than the joystick ball with the zig zags.

[headkaze]

rtkiii you use GameEx don't you? It can display Command.dat data.

[Howard_Casto]

That's why pictures are great, for arcade cabinets that is, and anyone can change them if the mood strikes, plus a picture always just works.  I used to "play" with C++ ages ago, but wouldn't know where to start to have a png displayed in front of the pause screen.  If one was so inclined, animated Gifs would be a fancy feature in a move list.

To be 100% honest, that's why images suck.  Any idiot can edit a text file to move around some icons or ect... but editing an image when you don't have the psd source is hard.  Command dat had the right idea... you should generate a layout, it just wasn't implemented in the best way.  After it's generated of course, you can have the program spit out an image, which is more universal. 

[Le Chuck]

This is why I've thought of making a guidebook.  For simple games you can do with a single graphical list but for games with complex combos like the SF series I had planned on having a page for each game showing the move lists.  The problem is that as the collection grows book becomes onerous and then I wouldn't even use it.  Ideally when you pic a character and pause the game the moves for that character are listed.  The issue with that is it would take a script that is unique to each character in each game.   Doable but

[MacGyver]

That's why pictures are great, for arcade cabinets that is, and anyone can change them if the mood strikes, plus a picture always just works.  I used to "play" with C++ ages ago, but wouldn't know where to start to have a png displayed in front of the pause screen.  If one was so inclined, animated Gifs would be a fancy feature in a move list.

To be 100% honest, that's why images suck.  Any idiot can edit a text file to move around some icons or ect... but editing an image when you don't have the psd source is hard.  Command dat had the right idea... you should generate a layout, it just wasn't implemented in the best way.  After it's generated of course, you can have the program spit out an image, which is more universal.

I agree that in the ability to change the move list that text files rule the day, but, this is one of times where once it has been done correctly, there is no reason to change the result.
I contend that for ease of use that nothing beats a folder named "moves" containing pngs named after their roms, much the same way bezels and overlays work now.
Currently to get a list of moves on the screen you need a specially compiled version of MAME (I'm not sure if the diffs are even for current versions), a third party program, a detailed list of moves in a specially formated .dat file.  It just seems like the MAME developers themselves should have built in at least minimal support for a "moves" list, they are after all trying to keep the history alive for arcade games, and I think not knowing that Orchid can knock-out her opponent by flashing them her chest if you do a special move set, is a piece of lost history ever bit as much as the rom itself.   
Most people don't go and re-create the bezels, the ones that have been created are fine for 99% of us out there, the same would be true once an image of a move set was created.  There would be a time in the beginning where there would be multiple versions of the same files, but choices are good.  And there are games where the moves list would be multiple pages, but that can easily be rectified by allowing <gamename>-2.png and the use of the joysticks on the pause screen to scroll through them.

Just my 2 cents, anyway, I looked at the source today, and could maybe find the location to call the image routine when MAME was paused, but there is SOOOO much ++ in their C++ that I could never figure out the function to call to render the <gamename>.png on the screen if I wanted too, so it's a moot point.   

[rtkiii]

If I could get the CPWizard side to work I would be happy to assist in getting screenshots for a hard copy.  I use Photoshop.  Because I find it would be nioce to have something for people who are waiting to play...I would not do it for all games but the big names like MK, SFII, Samaurai Sho and art of fighting or something...but I cannot get it to display from CP Wizard to even get the screens.  Anyone have some assistance in this?

[Howard_Casto]

I agree that in the ability to change the move list that text files rule the day, but, this is one of times where once it has been done correctly, there is no reason to change the result.

That's kind of the problem right there though.  There is no such thing as "correctly in this instance"  badmouth for example wants every single directional output spelled out for him... I on the other hand want abbreviated directional lists.  And then there's the issue of some people preferring different icon styles ect...  Now if it's say a html file, we could use a style sheet or image packs to use the exact same data and instantly change the look of the instructions.  If you go image file that isn't easily possible. 

rtkiii:

we aren't ignoring you, it's just that cpwizard is headkaze's app.... I don't know much about it personally. 

[rtkiii]

yeah I was hoping others had used CPWizard...but I'm finding alot do not    As for the physical items...I would just use the screen shots from CPWizard itself.  The screenshots Headkaze has show me look great and simple to understand(for gamers - I think)  I'd just do a screen print of that and maybe add some Photoshop flair to make it lok nice.  And any games that are multi series(MK, SF, Samurai Sho) I'd have the moves all on one sheet per player.  Yeah you will never make everyone happy...it's impossible but I think if the files were there then people could print them out if they wanted...I think I am still going to do it for my fav games...if I ever get CPwizard to work right...im just missing something.  LOL.

[Howard_Casto]

I just thought I would throw this out there:

The guys over at the cheat engine forums have been very helpful with my outrun 2k6 exploits and if I ever manage to re-work the sprites for that game I'll probably use a compiled ce script to put them back in the game. 

So while I was messing with that I thought I'd give mame a try:




This isn't a hack, it's a d3d hook, so it would work regardless of mame version so long as you are running it in d3d mode.  A lua script would have to be written to launch mame with the passed command line options, check for a png, display it when paused, and exit the script if mame exits.  This isn't terribly hard to do if you understand that we'll probably run into issues with games that run at an odd resolution, ect. 

The catch?  Well thus far I've only been successful in hooking the 32bit version of mame.  The 64bit version won't hook.  This might be fixable via a proxy or ect, but I don't know for sure. 

[rtkiii]

I'm no programmer - Just know Photoshop and make movies...   

[headkaze]

The catch?  Well thus far I've only been successful in hooking the 32bit version of mame.  The 64bit version won't hook.  This might be fixable via a proxy or ect, but I don't know for sure.

You need a 64-bit process to hook the 64-bit version of MAME. The way I hook MAME's RawInput system is to use two C++ dll's (one compiled for 32-bit and one compiled for 64-bit). Then I use a .NET app compiled for "Any CPU" and that detects the bit-ness of the system and uses the appropriate dll. This is about the easiest way to do it although I guess you could use other techniques such as scanning running processes for MAME and examining to see if it's 32 or 64 bit and then launch the appropriate hook that way. Anyway the point it it's doable but I consider it a hack at best. Also you will need to be able to hook the various versions of D3D or create a proxy D3D dll (which is the technique that was used here I believe)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps it's actually easier (and less 'hacky') to do a custom compiled version of MAME that can assign buttons to toggle bezels. Now if we could convince mame dev to add such a feature to the core then we'd have an even better solution.

[Howard_Casto]

To me at least, compiling a custom version of mame is far more hackish.  It means you are limited to using only one version of mame, somebody will be required to maintain a build ect.  When you externalize it then all of those problems go away. 

Unfortunately I'm not sure what dll they are using for the hook.  That's what I meant by I'm not sure if it can be fixed or not.  Technically speaking I can do a proxy, and probably even an injectable dll like they are using, but the cheat engine version is done so well... it's the best implementation I've seen... seems to work well on anything, no crashes or distorted images, has auto-centering and auto scaling of images, ect...

Official mame submissions would be best of course.  I think a nice compromise might be to add code to the artwork to search for the control label instead of relying on the bitmask for button-enabled artwork elements.  Then it wouldn't specifically be for a pause image, it would be improving functionality, but because we could then map a image state to "UI_PAUSE" it would work as one. 

I think an overlay might still be unavoidable though because while I'm sure mame would allow the aforementioned changes, I doubt they'd let us do anything sophisticated like use buttons to cycle through artwork, ect....  I could be wrong of course. 

[rtkiii]

started working on hard copies of the moves.  Page size.  I am trying to get a game on a page or two depending.  check it out if interested.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,131358.0.html