Modern Radeon/Audio Authority 9A60 and 480i Output

[Geomancer]

Hello, I'm building a cabinet and I have a Sony KV-25FS150, SDTV which according to the manual supports 480i over Component. I bought a Audio Authority 9A60 to make the conversion from VGA to Component and I understand I have to output a supported tv signal.

I used PowerStrip with a AMD HD6850, using a DVI to VGA adapter, but I cannot see anything in my tv, not even broken/fuzzy images, just the black screen. I don't have a way to know if the Audio Authority is working.

There is another problem, I will be using another PC with the cabinet, using an AMD Trinity A10 5800k which has a 7760D or something like that.. if the 6850 isn't supported then the newer won't be either..

The reason I'm using a modern semi-powerful vga is that I intend to setup more demanding emulators on the cabinet, such as PS2, Wii/GameCube, Dreamcast, etc.. Also it's very complicated to return the Audio Authority as I'm in Argentina and I bought it from USA, I prefer to exhaust al the possibilities before trying another setup.

I have yet to try Soft-15khz, but I would like to know if there is any other tool or custom driver that I can use to make this setup work.. Any help or tutorial you can point would be much appreciated, thanks a lot!

[rCadeGaming]

You need to feed the TV 15kHz resolutions, meaning 480i or something around 240p.  If you're not using Soft15kHz or CRT_Emudriver I doubt you're doing so.  640x480 from a normal PC is 480p.  Big difference; that's 31kHz.

Also, you'll need a video card compatible with Soft15kHz or CRT_Emudriver.  Preferably an ATI that's compatible with both.

http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?7925-Getestete-Grafikkarten

btw, if you do all this, you'll be able to run 90% of MAME games in native res, various resolutions around 240p.  Don't waste it by running them in 480i.  You'll be scaling and losing scanlines.

[Geomancer]

Today when back from work I will try using Soft15kHz. Is great to know the Radeons have more support for this kind of purposes.

I'ts a shame there isn't more info for the TV, but according to the manual the Component Input is for "480i only", could it work with 240p or similar resolutions?

[rCadeGaming]

Look for your video card in the Soft15kHz link I posted.  If you don't find it listed as supported, it may not work.  You need an appropriate card.  They're available cheap on eBay.

according to the manual the Component Input is for "480i only"

It likely says this because it will not work with 480p (which is a good thing for running MAME on a TV in native res).  The writers of the manual didn't foresee people using the component input for ~240p, but it's pretty unlikely that it won't work IF your computer is outputting it properly.

[Geomancer]

I installed Soft15khz in my Radeon 6850 to test it. My tv hooked with the Audio Authority was detected in Catalyst/Windows. I managed to set the resolution 320x240 and turned down the computer. I started the computer again with the main screen disconnected, hoping to get some signal on the tv without luck..

Now the problem is that Catalyst/Windows won't detect the TV, I'm going to try uninstalling Catalyst and cleaning the registry, I have already applied the registry backup created by Soft15khz and restarted a couple of times but without luck.

[rCadeGaming]

you'll need a video card compatible with Soft15kHz or CRT_Emudriver.

A Radeon 6850 is not listed as compatible with either.

[Geomancer]

I was trying with the 6850 because it's what I have at hand until I get a used compatible vga.. It's a shame I used to have a 4850 which is listed as compatible but I sold it to buy the 6850..

An used 4850 would be ok or I should go with some lower end, more compatible one? If this is the last purchase I might start finishing the cabinet for once

[rCadeGaming]

Read the materials, check the lists.  ATI's are most flexible.  No need for something "lower-end," as the "higher-end" of what's compatible is still cheap.

[Geomancer]

Today I'm getting a Radeon 4870 so I will start connecting everything and try again using the transcoder. I hope everything works ok on the first couple of tries

I will keep this thread in case I need further help, and if everything works ok I will probably make a worklog thread to show the work on the cabinet.

Best regards.

[rCadeGaming]

Hope it works well for you.  I just tried CRT_Emudriver for the first time last night with a Radeon HD4350.  Works great.  I had always used Soft15kHz with a nVidia before.

One other thing is that for Soft15kHz you need to be running XP or XP64.  Not sure of OS limitations for CRT_Emudriver but it's working for me with XP64.

[Geomancer]

I will be trying Windows 7 first as it's what I have at hand, and I have read somewhere that for the Radeons W7 is ok, but a no go for nVidia. If it doesn't work I will try XP 64.

[Geomancer]

I manager to get the s-video to component adaptor so I at least have a last resource in case nothing works.. I mounted the new pc with the 4870, and tried with Windows 7 and 10.3 and 9.3 drivers but I'm not getting 15khz output using Soft15khz.

I'm going to get a Win XP x64 cd and try CRT_EmuDriver.. at least now I know the component input on the tv is working, so If I don't get any signal using XP then the Audio Authority 9A60 probably is broken and I will have to send it for RMA..

[dmarcum99]

Did you happen to buy the AA 9A60 used?  If so, you may want to check the power supply.  I bought one used and the power supply that came with it was like most power supplies...center positive.

The AA 9A60 takes a psu with center negative.  In my case, I cut the psu wire and re-wired backwards.  That got the 9A69 to work.

Check your psu and see if you got the wrong one...having the wrong one doesn't hurt the 9A60 as it has built-in protection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_symbols

[Geomancer]

I checked the psu and it seems to be a good one as it says negative center. I will try now a couple of driver versions more as 9.3 doesn't go below 640x480..

[dmarcum99]

Win7 may be an issue...I can't remember if soft15khz is win7 compatible...or emucrt driver for that matter.

Maybe the driver installed for the apu may have mesed things up.  Have you used cat-uninstaller to remove all traces of the previous video drivers?  Sometimes using the cat-uninstaller and reinstalling the emucrt drivers will correct the problem.

http://www.ultimarc.com/cat-uninstaller.exe

[rCadeGaming]

I'm pretty sure Soft15kHz is not compatible with windows 7.  Either way, CRT_Emudriver would be your best bet with a Radeon.

[Geomancer]

I'm reading the Soft15kHz german forum and I have seen a screenshot posted by SailorSat showing W7 working but there is a lot of issues and things to work out to make it working so I ditched the W7 idea and now I'm trying to install XP x64 which is a pain in the ass with newer hardware.. I don't have a cd drive so I'm installing from a usb stick, with the AHCI drivers injected but I failed miserably to install it yesterday..

I need to try a couple of things more today after work, and if everything else fails I will install with the HDD on ATA compatibility mode..

With some luck I could finish with software installing for this weekend so I start the hard work in the cabinet, at least finish the control, I'm dying to play some old classics 

[rCadeGaming]

Yup, I've done the same, installing XP64 on a new computer with SATA drives/AHCI.  I tried slipstreaming the mobo drivers into the install disc as well, but I guess it didn't recognize them properly during install, because it would finish installing, but after when it tried to reboot into the newly installed windows to continue setup it would crash.  I had to have both the HDD and SATA controller set to IDE mode in the BIOS from the beginning of the install process for it to work.

I think there may be something about pressing F4 or something during install to manually select a "third-party driver."

Let me know if you get it to install from the flash stick, as I'm tired of burning a new disc every time I change some options in nLite.

[Geomancer]

Ok, I managed to install Windows XP x64 from an usb stick, I used a free app called WinSetup, there is other app called Rufus but that didnt't work yesterday, but probably my bad..

You have to boot from the usb, and you are presented with two choices, its pretty straightforward, you select the first one, and it does the text install (I injected the sata/ahci drivers with nLite), and after the restart you boot from the usb again and select the second option to follow with the graphic install portion.

Now I will be trying the custom drivers and check at last if the Audio Authority works (crosses fingers) or I have to return it as defective.


WinSetup: https://code.google.com/p/winsetupfromusb/downloads/detail?name=Win%20Setup_1_0_beta8.7z

Edit: Ok, I was almost throwing the towel with the transcoder, I was still getting a black screen on my tv, so I installed TeamViewer, and restarted with only the tv connected, and realized the "VIDEO 3" text was shaking a little, so I changed the resolution randomly always below 640x480, and then I saw a garbled desktop image, which is the "holy grail" of not having to RMA the 9A60

Now the problem is I kept switching resolutions but no one seem to get better, and now isn't working again, I'm thinking the Sony has a very aggresive "no signal" setup so it always show a black screen instead of garbage.. I will be checking now if there is any service menu with some config allowing to disable the black screens, and if there isn't I will have to start checking custom resolutions because I believe it might be a matter of PAL-N, PAL-M, etc

Maybe the soft15khz default resolutions wont work with a pal tv, but the tv it's suposed to be multinorm, and I found a setting for NTSC, PAL-N, PAL-M, AUTO but it's only for TV/VIDEO 1/VIDEO 2, not for component.. I will investigate further..

[rCadeGaming]

Hmm I don't know about PAL models, but all of my Sony's are extremely flexible with different timing values.

[Geomancer]

Tomorrow I will be trying some PAL resolutions/timings, I hope to make it work..

I don't know how the s-video to component worked ok, if I send the exact same resolution with soft15khz it should work?

Edit: I don't understand a couple of things, if I set 640x480 with QuickRes, reboot and then I get a "signal not supported" on the LCD, that should mean the vga is outputting 15khz? if yes, then I should try another resolutions maybe there is a problem with the default signals and they aren't supported by my tv?, maybe because of PAL-N/PAL-M..

[Geomancer]

I'm really sad, I have just finished trying a couple of catalyst versions, powerstrip, and I cannot even replicate the garbled/broken windows desktop.. I'm assuming the vga it's sending 15khz because if I unplug the tv and plug the LCD in the same head, without rebooting, i get an unsupported signal message on the LCD..

That would mean either the converter or the tv is not working properly.. I don't know what else to try.. I'm going to have to resort to using s-video and return the conversor.

[rCadeGaming]

When you said you got a Radeon 4870, you meant an HD 4870 right?

Uninstall Soft15kHz and try CRT_Emudriver 9.3:

http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

You have to install it first, then use VMMaker to add 15kHz resolutions.

If still no luck, I would suspect the transcoder before the TV.  It could be what's refusing to work with what it thinks are non-standard resolutions.

[Geomancer]

Yes, it's a Sapphire HD4870, I'm pretty sure I'm outputting 15khz because the LCD shows "Unsupported Signal" message.. I tried again with CRT_Emudriver with no luck, I have discarded a couple of options more: moving the potentiometer on the Audio Authority (no luck), and trying a 220v to 110v adapter for the power supply, even when the supply is 100-240v..

Now I have only one stuff to try, which is confirming the power supply is center negative.. besides that I'm believing the transcoder isn't working ok.. It might be that is manufacturer refurbished but it's supposed to be tested an confirmed working..

I have been trying with the s-video to component adapter which came with the vga, and it's working ok with 480i/576i (besides the annoying flickering), so I will be using this until I get a replacement.

Also I'm going to check with the GroovyMame Linux distribution, that could work but I would love to have HyperSpin as frontend.. At least with that I could rule out the transcoder working or not..

[rCadeGaming]

Even if the transcoder is working as designed, it's possible that it's only compatible with certain standard computer resolutions it's programmed to accept, like 640x480p, 800x600, 1024x768, etc., not 15kHz resolutions. 

To rule out the transcoder as a problem, you need one that's proven to work with any timing values.  If you don't want to spend on a TC1600, you could make a VGA to SCART cable and use a cheap CVS-287 RGB SCART to component transcoder.

Come to think of it, if you're in a PAL territory, why don't make a VGA to RGB SCART and connect that directly to the TV!?

[Geomancer]

The Audio Authority 9A60 is supposed to work on every resolution and only converts to YPrPb, I will be contacting Audio Authority support to see if they could give any hint on what's happening.. I have read in a couple of places confirming at least 240p support..

Sadly even when we're on PAL territory, SCART is european only so I'm stuck with component..

Edit: I'm checking the power supply and it's 12v 0.5A, and the Audio Authority website says it comes with a 12v 1A power supply... I hope I have a spare 12v 1A power supply somewhere at home to check this..

[rCadeGaming]

Ok.  I'd continue to suspect that it could be the transcoder until definitively proven otherwise, but it could be the TV.

I don't know anything about PAL models, especially non-SCART, but does it work with old consoles like Genesis/Megadrive or SNES?  These put out non-standard resolutions around 240p.  Also, I usually only see this with HD-capable sets, but it's possible that the component input more restrictive than other inputs.  It should at least work with a PAL standard 576i signal though.

[Geomancer]

I contacted the eBay seller regarding the power supply and have to wait for an answer, but I already checked with a 12v 1A I had and it didn't work either..

Now I'm testing some emulators with the s-video output and I must say it's a shame I don't have a real component 480i to test because s-video is looking awesome.. the thing is I don't have scanlines and emulated ones look awful, but I checked some SNES games using interlaced and look gorgeous.. maybe too sharp/clean but it's orders of magnitude better than composite..

[arcadepcnut]

Any updates on what the problem was?

[rCadeGaming]

I just noticed "SNES games using interlaced."  You do know that SNES usually outputs 256x224 progressive, right?  Interlaced output from this system is extremely rare, and only used by a handful of games.  What games were you using?

[Geomancer]

I wasn't checking the forum for a while, sorry I didn't answer before.

I might expressed myself wrong, I know SNES and older consoles only output progressive, I tried to say "I checked some SNES games, using interlaced (as I was unable to output progressive) and they looked awesome".. that being said, I know progressive is better, the lack of scanlines really bugs me, and there is a really annoying flicker on some straight lines that make me want to punch the tv..

Luckily, I am logging again to the forum because I have just received the 9A60, the seller was really nice and sent a new (not refurbished) 9A60A (newer model also) unit so I will be checking again this weekend.. I'm going to try directly with Windows 7 first, because I don't have a optical cd drive to install XP, and I really hated it the last time so If I can avoid XP it would be awesome..

I will be posting updates on the process, wish me luck

EDIT: a quick update, quicker than I really thought it would have take I connected the new unit, installed the latest Soft15khz, restarted the PC, and OMG I have image! it's not working that fine on the geometry department, but it's awesome news!

[rCadeGaming]

I might expressed myself wrong, I know SNES and older consoles only output progressive, I tried to say "I checked some SNES games, using interlaced (as I was unable to output progressive) and they looked awesome".. that being said, I know progressive is better, the lack of scanlines really bugs me, and there is a really annoying flicker on some straight lines that make me want to punch the tv..

Some SNES games actually did run in interlaced, just very very few of them.  Anyhow, I think it was a brain-fart on my part, I though you were talking about using a real SNES.

[Geomancer]

I cannot believe it, yesterday I got the transcoder working, played some games to see the awesomeness of the scanlines, and turned off the computer.

Now I was ready to start working on getting a more centered image, and turned out the vga is dead.. I already tried it on another computer and doesn't boot.. it stays with the fan at 100% and wont give any signal..

[rCadeGaming]

Dead card?  That's sucks.  Good thing they're cheap.  You've got me scared though.  Gonna stock up on extras.

[Geomancer]

I'm going to stock some 4850/4870 because in a couple of years getting one in good shape is going to be really difficult..

[Geomancer]

I have just received an HD4850 from eBay, I haven't tried it yet, I hope it works ok. I will be getting a couple of 4850/4870 more from eBay as they are really cheap if you look enough.

[rCadeGaming]

I've been picking up HD4350's because they're fanless.  There's also a fanless 4650, but it's not as common.

[Geomancer]

Great news, I have installed the 4850, and everything is working fine. I had to do a Windows restore which deleted everything, drivers, soft15khz, browser, etc.. but now I have reinstalled everything and I'm ready to continue working on the cabinet

Now I need to do a couple of things, first I will be looking for some way to remove the overscan, I don't want to mess much with PowerStrip because the last time I had too many driver crashes (vpu recover) and that could have damaged the previous video card..

[rCadeGaming]

You're using CRT_Emudriver right?  You can use ArcadeOSD with that, which is much nicer than Powerstrip for our purposes.

[Geomancer]

No, at this moment I'm only using Soft15khz with the stock ATI drivers (10.3 I believe).. ArcadeOSD is only Win XP right? I'm trying to avoid it for as long as I can XD