Let's try economy powder coating at home

[griffindodd]

Economy Home Powder Coating Setup

I'm always looking for ways to increase my skill set and my tool set  so I thought I would have a go at creating an economical powder coating station at home that I could use to PC most common parts found on a cabinet. For me the largest part would be the frame of an over-under coin door.

Dedicated Powdercoating Gear
Powder Coating Gun Kit - $69 - 10-30 PSI Powder Coating System at Harbor Freight
Matt Black Powder Paint - $4.99 - 16 Oz. Powder Coat Paint, Matte Black at Harbor Freight

Stuff you may already have
Donor toaster oven for heating parts - $20 from any Walmart/Target etc


Steel Filing Cabinet 27"x14"18" - $10 I found mine on Craigslist

 
Air compressor of your choice capable of steady 30psi - Already owned


The Oven

The main problem for many people can be the oven, especially if you are doing longer pieces of metal as finding an oven they will fit in can be tricky. If you have the room and a 220v outlet in your garage then you can get hooked up with an old electric full-size oven for next to nothing from Craig's List or Freecycle.org in your area. But if you're limited for space and don't have easy access to 220v then you are stuck with plug-in appliances.

Toaster ovens are great for at-home powder coating if you are doing reasonably small pieces, but if your pieces start getting above 14" or so in length then you are out of luck as they are just too long to get in the small oven. This is the main problem I have been having trying to find an economical way to cure my parts such as the over-under coin door assembly and the metal trim parts that run the width of my cabinets.

- We're going to use the steel filing cabinet as my basic box and try to use the sliders and drawer frames to create a loading/hanging frame for the parts to be suspended by.
- I plan to insulate the area between the loading frame and the outer skin
- Next install all the heating elements and electronics from our donor toaster oven
- Finally make a side opening insulated door with thermometer to hing onto the front of the oven.

[Nephasth]

Why toaster ovens when you can get someone's used kitchen oven off CL for next to nothing?

[BadMouth]

so disappointed not to see a full size range in your backyard. 

[griffindodd]

Neph I covered that in the OP. (reading is fun )

Personally I don't have the space to dedicate to a full size oven so I need something more versatile. The hope is that I can actually turn this unit on it's end and have it be tall and slim, perhaps even wall mount it.

[rablack97]

Baking is fun, i use those little oven to bake solder masks for home made pcb's.....

 

While your at it, make you you tack on Ond's home made flocking technique as well, you might want to add some plushness on this thing on down the line.

FYI, in ---smurfy--- mood, guy on craigslist has a samsung sychmaster 204t for $10.00, bastard sold it while i was driving to get it.....

Oh yeah, looking forward to seeing you powder coat stuff, just wondering, wouln't an old grill on low heat do the same thing as an gas oven, plus it gives you more area space, just rig up a secondary rack....

[griffindodd]

While your at it, make you you tack on Ond's home made flocking technique as well, you might want to add some plushness on this thing on down the line.

FYI, in ---smurfy--- mood, guy on craigslist has a samsung sychmaster 204t for $10.00, bastard sold it while i was driving to get it.....

Oh yeah, looking forward to seeing you powder coat stuff, just wondering, wouln't an old grill on low heat do the same thing as an gas oven, plus it gives you more area space, just rig up a secondary rack....

LOL not familiar with OND's flocking  . Bummer on the monitor that sucks. Yeah you can use anything for a heat source, it's just keeping the temp reasonably stable for 20 mins or so that can be the challenge.

[rablack97]

He flocked the inside of his CP, you know, that fuzzy stuff that feels like felt, dude make his own flocking gun and everything, pretty interesting.

BS griff too many words and not enough photos....

[griffindodd]

BS griff too many words and not enough photos....

Yeah gotta wait for the kit to arrive, I could post a pic of the powder gun box sitting on my garage floor, that's pretty exciting.

[rablack97]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,88912.640.html

Towards the bottom, kinda cool...

[griffindodd]

Lol, there's something very wrong with that man, he has the patience and focus of a serial killer. 

[Nephasth]

Got a feeling this is going to turn into another one of those electrolysis experiments...

[griffindodd]

Got a feeling this is going to turn into another one of those electrolysis experiments...

A logical assumption

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[rablack97]

Got a feeling this is going to turn into another one of those electrolysis experiments...

Leave the man alone, you might learn something....

Read my profile quotes............

I'm sure skeptics said the same thing to the caveman that put round stones on his cart instead of the square one.  Oh there's carl again putting those odd shaped stones on his cart again...

Is there a thread for skeptic timeout?

[Nephasth]

Got a feeling this is going to turn into another one of those electrolysis experiments...

Leave the man alone, you might learn something....

I learn from other people's mistakes whenever I can.

But I'd love to be proven wrong in this case.

[yotsuya]

I didn't know there were cavemen named Carl? 

[yotsuya]

Griff, I'm curious. How do you plan to join the two units?

[griffindodd]

Griff, I'm curious. How do you plan to join the two units?

Mostly with spells and some fishing twine

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[griffindodd]

Don't worry about Neph RaBlack



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[yotsuya]

Griff, I'm curious. How do you plan to join the two units?

Mostly with spells and some fishing twine

You're gonna need a bigger boat.

[Nephasth]

Let's hope they do in this case...

[PL1]

Griff, I'm curious. How do you plan to join the two units?

Given that he deliberately searched out a toaster oven model with controls below the door, he'll probably:

1. Cut a hole in the right side of one just above the lower sliding rack support
2. Cut a hole in the left side of the other
3. Push them together to create a single heating chamber
4. ? ? ?
5. Profit   


Scott

[yotsuya]

Griff, I'm curious. How do you plan to join the two units?

Given that he deliberately searched out a toaster oven model with controls below the door, he'll probably:

1. Cut a hole in the right side of one just above the lower sliding rack support
2. Cut a hole in the left side of the other
3. Push them together to create a single heating chamber
4. ? ? ?
5. Profit   


Scott

I get THAT. It's the ? ? ? that I am curious about.

[PL1]

I get THAT. It's the ? ? ? that I am curious about.

That is where after preheating, you open the doors, thread the long powder coated piece through the hole (the trickiest part), and hang it from some hooks to bake.

It will be easier to use if the hole extends all the way through the front edge, leaving a C-shaped side, with a metal flap added to cover the gap between the doors.


Scott

[griffindodd]

leaving a C-shaped side, with a metal flap added to cover the gap between the doors.

And this is why Scott wins all the internetz points, this is exactly what I plan to do.

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[yotsuya]

No, I GET all that. I can visualize that. Scott can keep the Internet points. I'm just curious how YOU plan to do it. Wishes and twine are cheap, but I figure you would go one better.

I tell you what, I'll just shut up and wait for you to post the photos of the final results.

[griffindodd]

No, I GET all that. I can visualize that. Scott can keep the Internet points. I'm just curious how YOU plan to do it. Wishes and twine are cheap, but I figure you would go one better.

I tell you what, I'll just shut up and wait for you to post the photos of the final results.

Lol. I'll have to wait until the ovens arrive and then assess the options. I think I will split the casing sides horizontally and then bend them up/down to form a bridge top and bottom. Maybe rivet them and aluminum heat tape to seal. Then I'll have to fabricate a back to the chamber and something to bridge the front two doors to make one.

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[jennifer]

   Jennifer pokes her nose in here all curious... Im just going to grab a cookie, and take a chair in the back.

[yaksplat]

I'll vote for an oven chamber built from the two toasters that has a conveyor belt built in.

Now wouldn't that be interesting?

[griffindodd]

I'll vote for an oven chamber built from the two toasters that has a conveyor belt built in.
Now wouldn't that be interesting?

It would be great, but you need flow out time before curing which seems to be better done at a slightly lower temperature than curing temp from what I have managed to learn so far. Typically about 5 mins of flow out at about 300 degrees f follwed by about 20 mins of cure at 350-400 f. Obviously different situations and applications require different approaches, especially when you start getting into dual stage coatings etc.

[Drnick]

@ Yaksplat, that sounds like one of these

http://www.cateringplus.co.uk/pimg/product/640x640/1736401_l.jpg

There you are at Breakfast, out comes Toast, Toast, Toast, Powder Coated Box Part, Crumpet, Muffin, Powder Coated box Lid

[PL1]

The ovens are 1500W = 120V * 12.5 Amps each.

Are you planning to run them off two separate circuit breaker feeds?


Scott

[spoot]

1. Cool, didn't know powder coating could be done at residential oven temps
2.
3. Wonders where my cookie went

[jennifer]

 Jennifer wipes some cookie crumbs off her lap.... Well first off,  The temps on those toasters are not even, cook a pizza in there and you will see what I mean, half of it is burnt and half of it is still cold...So may I suggest a circulation fan (High temp for obvious reasons) probably with a filter, and a temp gauge...Cause when this thing goes, your going to want some kind of reference point to keep the powder within its specs,@ an even temp...Edit, But not something to big as where you blow the powder off the object.

[griffindodd]

The ovens are 1500W = 120V * 12.5 Amps each.
Are you planning to run them off two separate circuit breaker feeds?

Yep this is a concern that I'll have to look at, who knows maybe if I use a circulation fan I can get away with using just one element, or I wonder if there is a way to wire them in series to disperse the watts/amps between the two and stay at 12.5A

[selfie]

While we are talking ovens...

We blow moulded some dome windows for a mate's 70s era show van in a BBQ

[yotsuya]

Please tell me there is fuzzy carpet or wood paneling in the inside of your mate's van!

[rablack97]

See told you BBQ GRILL!!!!!

Yes dammit, there a Carl back in the stone ages.....

LOL, griff is going to make a portable convection oven...........

Spells and twine ay?  Loving the ingenuity....

[PL1]

See told you BBQ GRILL!!!!!

Hmmm . . . I wonder how well something like this would work:

- Steel 55 gallon drum like this turned upside down -- Check CL, there are some used ones here in Omaha for only $5!   

- Propane burner from grill in bottom, fuel fed thru the smaller bunghole (cue Beavis and Butthead chuckling) and air from a hairdryer/fan/metal hose through the larger one for a circulation fan/oxygen supply
- Layer of lava rocks/bricks to block flames from touching work pieces
- Large door cut in the side w. hinges/latch
- Outer frame with several inches of high-temp insulation on all sides
- Thermometer
- Variety of hooks to hang work pieces
- Wheeled base for portability so you can fire it up outside and not burn down your house.   


Scott

[rablack97]

The minds are working.........

Your gonna have yourself a real nice moonshine steel that doubles as a powder coat convection oven in your backyard for ya know it Griff....



Yes sir....real LAWLESS like

[Ond]

Lol, there's something very wrong with that man, he has the patience and focus of a serial killer. 

Why does there have to be something wrong with someone to have patience and focus?
I may not be as verbose as some (you won’t see my post count climb above 1000 for quite some time) but I watch this forum like a hawk.  I watch it for signs of creative genius, great art, innovation and insight from other members. Every now and then someone comes along who surprises me along those lines. It’s one of the best things about the forum for me anyway.  You joined quite some time after Pixelhugger was working on his epic cab project, but your statement about patience and focus on the forum made me think of this.  The man building a vacuum pump to shape parts for his project.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,13118.msg1098680.html#msg1098680

The other day I attended an art exhibition by a guy named Thomas Demand, this guy creates amazing full size dioramas out of nothing more than sheets of paper.  Nothing to do with arcade building I know but everything to do with patience and focus.

This is one of his works, made from 900,000 sheets of cardboard in layers only.  He builds these dioramas’, photographs them and then destroys the original construction.


 
It sure put my thinking into perspective, I stood looking at these images of his incredible works and thought “wow, so much for any patience I might have compared to this guy ”.  It's all relative Griff, some people dream big.

[griffindodd]

Hey man believe me that comment was one of respect and admiration, I struggle with patience quite a lot and I always admire/envy those with it, and you my friend, are the poster child for patience in these forums.

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[SavannahLion]

See told you BBQ GRILL!!!!!

Hmmm . . . I wonder how well something like this would work:

- Steel 55 gallon drum like this turned upside down -- Check CL, there are some used ones here in Omaha for only $5!   

- Propane burner from grill in bottom, fuel fed thru the smaller bunghole (cue Beavis and Butthead chuckling) and air from a hairdryer/fan/metal hose through the larger one for a circulation fan/oxygen supply
- Layer of lava rocks/bricks to block flames from touching work pieces
- Large door cut in the side w. hinges/latch
- Outer frame with several inches of high-temp insulation on all sides
- Thermometer
- Variety of hooks to hang work pieces
- Wheeled base for portability so you can fire it up outside and not burn down your house.   


Scott

http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/1355523-show-off-your-powder-coated-under-hood-eye-candy.html (Look for the post by 1994blackcobra)

Use this to get some tips: http://www.powdercoatoven.4t.com/

This looks very similar to the Hamilton Beach oven http://s1269.beta.photobucket.com/user/a1959birdman/library/Datsun%20truck%20project/Original%20L16%20engine%20and%20work%20done/Assembly%20of%20L16/Powder%20coating

[rablack97]

Damn, I was gonna mention something like that using large heating elements....

Griff example 2 is doable and could be done with half the cost as your's wouldnt have to be that big....

Put on your electrical hat and get to building....

[griffindodd]

The drum is a nice idea, especially for cooking outdoors, but it's very large, you may as well just dump a CL oven find in your garage at that point and be done with it. The second option with the framing is super interesting, I've seen that before, I wonder if it would turn out cheaper than the $80 I would spend on the two ovens I have coming (I can always RMA them), I do like the idea that it is far more custom.

[rablack97]

maybe not cheaper, buy wayyyyyyy more interesting.....

go with # 2.....makes the thread more interesting, send the betty crocker machines back, and build you a man oven....

[TopJimmyCooks]

for any kind of results you have to be able to keep it reasonably clean in the oven - air blowing around in half a steel drum will blow dust onto your PC and mess it up. 

[griffindodd]

Ok after reviewing some of the info provided here, I'm going to change the approach a bit...

$10 from CL, picking this up tonight on the way home 27"x18"x14"


- Strip out the drawer fronts, see if I can use the rollers/slides to create a frame I can pull in and out for easy loading. Insulate the insides of the cabinet and fashion an exterior skin from 10,000 used bottle tops and rock wool insulation.

- For the elements, steal old toaster oven from kitchen and rape it for all the parts, give wifey one of the new ones that is coming (she wanted a new one anyway so also score wifey points) and return the extra one to Amazon for refund.

- Fashion an insulated door from extruded frame and sheet metal, use glass from old toaster oven as window.

[Le Chuck]

I used to make raku kilns using a metal trashcan, a ceramic wool blanket, and a propane blower.  Cheap and you can fire them up to several hundred degrees quickly.  You can also maintain a constant temp by throttling back the propane/blower speed plus the trash can has a nice interior volume for parts hanging and if you need to you can always double stack them.  Just need another blanket. 

Just another solution incase the electric elements don't work out. 

Here's a pretty good Make on it:  http://blog.makezine.com/2012/06/28/how-to-trashcan-raku-kiln/

I used to fire my glazes around 1100^oC, only takes a few minutes.  The advice in the comments to use square steel mesh rather than a trashcan is good advice but i never had an issue with fumes or anything from the galvanized can.  YMMV. 

[RandyT]

Interesting stuff here.  Let me echo the sentiment regarding taking care not to burn your house down, and add "don't electrocute yourself".  I've seen a lot of amazing home-built projects for vacuum forming and the like, and this will likely have some similar requirements.  If you want to actually build your own custom heating elements, a search for those projects will likely yield some valuable information regarding formulas for coil length, and sources of materials for heat management, etc.  Also keep in mind that you'll need close to 400 degrees F, which may be hard to achieve in a large area without at least 220v driving the coil.  This is why countertop ovens, running on standard 110v power, are never very large.   You may be able to do it in a smaller area with direct radiant heaters, an appropriate distance from the part.  The quality of the result is going to depend greatly on the uniformity and control of the heat.

I'm not sure if you have had any exposure to the powder coating process, but it's messy and the materials can be costly.  The good part is that they can be re-used, if you can keep what doesn't hit the part clean, and fashion something to collect it.  I also recommend good ventilation.  The powder is fine and will go where you don't want it and as the process involves heat to melt the powder, there is going to be outgassing and possibly odors your family members may find objectionable.

Good luck, and it will be interesting to see what you come up with.

[griffindodd]

Thanks for the input here guys, I'm going to need to do some good research on this subject as it's already getting complicated, but that's ok, the idea here is to document my travels and hopefully come up with an extremely economical solution others can benefit from too.

[yotsuya]

Thanks for the input here guys, I'm going to need to do some good research on this subject as it's already getting complicated, but that's ok, the idea here is to document my travels and hopefully come up with an extremely economical solution others can benefit from too.

 

[griffindodd]

Well this project is taking on a life of it's own.

just got off the phone with a solid buddy of mine who's a regional manager for a large HVAC company who do a lot of stadiums, large factories, data centers etc. I was asking him if he could get me some AC ducting to use for the skins of an oven build and he busts out the magic line... "Dude! Just give me the specs and drawings, we have a whole fabrication facility, I'll give it to my fabrication manager and we'll get it built in stainless for you as long as it's not too crazy" 

So, with an offer like that I'm going to have to go ahead and take him up on it.

to be continued...

[Nephasth]

"Dude! Just give me the specs and drawings, we have a whole fabrication facility, I'll give it to my fabrication manager and we'll get it built in stainless for you as long as it's not too crazy" 

Now that's my kind of economy!

[griffindodd]

yeah I can't turn that down, with an offer like that I'm going to try and squeeze an upright 48"x18"x24" interior oven out of this favor complete with a stand for a gas bottle and have it all on wheels lol.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Whatever size you make it will eventually be too small.  Make sure you can fit the siderails of a pinball machine in there.  4' 6" or so. 

[selfie]

Please tell me there is fuzzy carpet or wood paneling in the inside of your mate's van!

Plenty of crushed velvet goodness

[Ond]

Woo hoo  an awesome high powered shaggin wagon!

[griffindodd]

ZOMG it has two Simons??

[yotsuya]

We'll get some purple fringe taillights and thirty inch fins, oh yeah
A Palomino dashboard and duel muffler twins, oh yeah
With new pistons, plugs and shocks I can get off my rocks
You know that I ain't bragging, she's a real ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- wagon
Grease lightning
(Go, go, go)

[griffindodd]

Sent off the specs to my buddy today to see if he can work his magic and get me hooked up. The dimensions kind of...erm.....grew a little as I figured I may as well take this opportunity to get something great that will hopefully keep me going for a long while. I still want to be able to wheel it through a standard doorway and have it sit alongside a bench in the garage so final external dimensions are 80" high, 28" wide and 34" deep including door, allowing for 4" insulation between skins that will give me 72"x"20"26" internal cooking space.

Haven't decided on propane vs electricity yet. If I go electric I will have to go to 240v with a 3000watt element putting me at 12.5A, this will get me up to operating temperature of 400f in ambient temps of 65f in about 20 mins.

I've specced out the oven to handle up to 900f or so should I decide I want to try ceramics in the future which come in at around 650f-700f curing temps, but if I do that I'll have to go to 240V 6000 watts at 25A

[selfie]

ZOMG it has two Simons??

His name is Simon... The four colour segments are LED lit too, and SUPER bright.

[Le Chuck]

Sent off the specs to my buddy today to see if he can work his magic and get me hooked up. The dimensions kind of...erm.....grew a little as I figured I may as well take this opportunity to get something great that will hopefully keep me going for a long while. I still want to be able to wheel it through a standard doorway and have it sit alongside a bench in the garage so final external dimensions are 80" high, 28" wide and 34" deep including door, allowing for 4" insulation between skins that will give me 72"x"20"26" internal cooking space.

Haven't decided on propane vs electricity yet. If I go electric I will have to go to 240v with a 3000watt element putting me at 12.5A, this will get me up to operating temperature of 400f in ambient temps of 65f in about 20 mins.

I've specced out the oven to handle up to 900f or so should I decide I want to try ceramics in the future which come in at around 650f-700f curing temps, but if I do that I'll have to go to 240V 6000 watts at 25A

Check your glaze temps if you intend to do ceramics, the lowest firing cone for a simple china painting glaze is still over a 1000f and the lower end of bisque firing for any clay is in the neighborhood of 1800.  Seven hundred even on an extremely long soak (over 24 hours) isn't likely to glass the clay or glaze.  Even when I do raku I'm still working on pieces that have already been bisque fired prior to raku.  If you get into durable high fire glazes you're looking at 2400^o+.

I think your oven will do an awesome job for powder coating but I don't think it's going to have the legs for ceramics.  That said a small kiln won't set you back much if you want to start slinging clay. 

[griffindodd]

Thanks Le Chuck. What I meant was ceramic powder  coatings which cure around 700

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[Le Chuck]

Thanks Le Chuck. What I meant was ceramic powder  coatings which cure around 700

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Ah, my mistake.  Well, um, carry on then!

  

[jennifer]

   No more pics of the van please...Everytime Jennifer looks at it I look around for my keg cup, and underpants.

[Nephasth]

 

[TopJimmyCooks]

Griff, you realize PC isn't that big of a deal anymore to get done.  for $300 you can get quite a bit of stuff PC'd professionally and there are coaters in every town.  Looks like you're on track to go at least that if not a lot more. 

[griffindodd]

Griff, you realize PC isn't that big of a deal anymore to get done.  for $300 you can get quite a bit of stuff PC'd professionally and there are coaters in every town.  Looks like you're on track to go at least that if not a lot more.

Yeah man I understand that but I always like to invest in tools and my shop. The oven is coming for free minus heating control elements so at this point its still a good value proposition.

On another point I'm 41 today and drunk so I'm going to stop trying to type on this damn phone

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[yotsuya]

Griff, you realize PC isn't that big of a deal anymore to get done.  for $300 you can get quite a bit of stuff PC'd professionally and there are coaters in every town.  Looks like you're on track to go at least that if not a lot more.

Yeah man I understand that but I always like to invest in tools and my shop. The oven is coming for free minus heating control elements so at this point its still a good value proposition.

On another point I'm 41 today and drunk so I'm going to stop trying to type on this damn phone

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[griffindodd]

This doesn't fit in the economy part if this thread but here are the specs of the oven my buddy is going to hook me up with



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[jennifer]

    Hold on...Hold the phone... Thats not some economy setup with toster ovens, thats a reinventing the wheel project...@ this point you should just look into a "real" Powder oven.

[griffindodd]

    Hold on...Hold the phone... Thats not some economy setup with toster ovens, thats a reinventing the wheel project...@ this point you should just look into a "real" Powder oven.

This is free and going to be a very real powder oven. Small ones are still in route so I will still be doing some toaster oven coating for practice in this thread just not joining two ovens together at this juncture

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[jennifer]

    Well how awsome your friends with an oven builder, Now you design it and spend countless hours recreating a oven...For the rest of us that were truely looking for a economical approach to DIY powder.... http://www.harborfreight.com/powder-coat-oven-46300.html

[griffindodd]

    Well how awsome your friends with an oven builder, Now you design it and spend countless hours recreating a oven...For the rest of us that were truely looking for a economical approach to DIY powder.... http://www.harborfreight.com/powder-coat-oven-46300.html

Amazing contribution thank goodness we have these forums for such creative and informative input. Perhaps you have some useful links to 60-in-1 cabs for $700 on Craig's List that we could buy so we dont have to bother building our own versions of those too?

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[rablack97]

Leave him alone, leave him alone.....

If he buys the stupid oven then we dont get photos.......

Let him build it then we get more photos.......

By the way why in the hell are you selling ms pacman dude......

[Nephasth]

Perhaps you have some useful links to 60-in-1 cabs for $700$1000 soon to be on Craig's List that we could buy so we dont have to bother building our own versions of those too?

Check your signature.

[jennifer]

     Jennifer doesnt look @ 60-1 cabs, Im an OEM kinda girl, But Ill look if you wish... Seeing how your so intent on this, and have gone big like you did, maybe consider a propane fired setup, this would eliminate the electrical considerations earlier in this thread, Give an even steady heat, and make the whole thing somewhat portable.Good luck...Jennifer has left the thread.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Easy now, lady and gentleman - I must say I took the same poke earlier in this thread by suggesting Griff can get plenty of commercial coating done for less than the cost of this project.  Griff has let us know he looked at the options and decided he wants to reinvent the PC oven DIY madman Griff style, and as a DIY forum we can/should support that.  I am interested to see how it goes, I've got a home PC gun (the craftsman one) that I may whip out one of these days.  He's a big boy and I guess I shouldn't have indicated that his project was ill considered. 

Griff, please proceed with your oven build and we look forward to seeing the process and results.  Thanks.

[Le Chuck]

I bet this oven will have cup holders on the top.  CUP HOLDERS!  Oh the humanatee!

[griffindodd]

I bet this oven will have cup holders on the top.  CUP HOLDERS!  Oh the humanatee!

Never powdercoat without a nice cold beer, its hot and thirsty work

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[Drnick]

Never powdercoat without a nice cold beer, its hot and thirsty work

Or overalls,  I once went to drop off a radiator for powdercoating, The owner of the shop came out and he had been powdercoating some wheels a nice hue of Green.  To say he looked like the hulk is an understatement. 

[griffindodd]

Good luck...Jennifer has left the thread.

Excellent, I don't want any Pixie dust up in my powder coat

[jennifer]

      Perhaps jennifer was a a bit hasty, and loud, Therefore, since Im still a bit courious as to how this plays out. Ill quietly listen.... The pixie dust is quite funny however and made me laugh,and laugh.

[griffindodd]

      Perhaps jennifer was a a bit hasty, and loud, Therefore, since Im still a bit courious as to how this plays out. Ill quietly listen.... The pixie dust is quite funny however and made me laugh,and laugh.

)

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[ChadTower]

I've built a few meat smokers and a lot of the concepts are the same here.  People regularly build smokers out of any large metal container they can find.  Refrigerators make a great choice if you pull out any plastic/fiberglass.  Old 250gal oil tanks too.  Put a decent thermostat on the door, set some propane heat either inside or in a sidebox, and you can learn to get a very consistent temperature in there with a 20lb propane tank and an inline needle valve.

An old 250gal heating oil tank would make a dead perfect DIY powdercoat oven and easily be large enough for pinball siderails.  And doing it with propane would be a ton easier than trying to use electricity from both a control and fuel perspective.

[geomartin]

Just wanted to make sure you'vre priced powder before you get too far in.  I've had to purchase a lot of powder in the past for a sheetmetal fabricator i used to work for.  Some standard colors can be had in five pound increments, but don't be surprised to see 25lbs. Min buy requirements.  Custom colors can run 50lbs. or more for min. buys.  Also , powder has a shelf life and storage conditions are important. .

[griffindodd]

In the words of Elvis

'A little less conversation a little more action please'

While its been fun chatting the tone in all of my build and experimentation threads has become rather negative and arrogant. With this in mind I'll avoid the discourse by just posting pictures of progress of this and future builds from here on out, not as a negative statement but more one that's celebrates creativity, problem solving and the love of the process. What we do is wonderful, a tribute to our childhood, a challenge of our abilities and a love of gameplay over production budgets .

What we do here is wonderful and has been a life changing discovery for me. Let's continue to be excellent, push ourselves further and celebrate an era sadly less understood by generations that never had to save their quarters and travel to the local arcade to experience their wonder and joy.

From here on out picture updates from me but no text, I'll let you all dictate your own script.

Peace and love for all bits 8 and below

[jennifer]

      .....EDIT.....

[geomartin]

Whoah Griff!

I was not trying to discourage you at all.  I only meant to share  what I thought was important information about the cost of powder with you.  I've been eagerly watching all of your projects, as they are among the elite of BYOAC.  You've given so much inspiration to so many here and I'd hate for you to stop because my comment was misconstrued.  I only mentioned it at all because I have had some jaw dropping reactions from customers over powder costs.  I had Tiger Drlac and Cardinal require 250 lbs. min on some custom colors.

[PL1]

Joel, one of the things that I always enjoy about reading your threads is the lively banter.

It's a sign of how much we enjoy your company, even if we sometimes get a little rowdy.   

Just remember that Elvis was requesting "A little less conversation a little more action", as opposed to a vow of silence.

As always, I look forward to your upcoming words and pics on this and other projects as you try to find a happy balance between them.   


Scott

[griffindodd]

Wow. Just read that last post, lol sorry about that I was totally wasted last night after burying a whole Growler of rather strong Gran Cru . I think that rant must have been inspired by all the Oscar's speeches.

Any hoooooo drunk calls, drunk texts and drunk posts always make for interesting conversations the following day.

Party on Garth

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[ChadTower]

Wow. Just read that last post, lol sorry about that I was totally wasted last night after burying a whole Growler of rather strong Gran Cru . I think that rant must have been inspired by all the Oscar's speeches.

Any adult who claims they have never done this is a liar.  We've all been there.   

[RandyT]

Any adult who claims they have never done this is a liar.  We've all been there.   

Heh.  I've had to stop myself a few times at 3am after drunk bullhead fishing with the boys up here in the Adirondacks.  Nothing good could have come from that   

But seriously, keep posting, good ideas and even not so good.  We're just trying to help hash it out for your benefit, as well as others who might be following along.

[jennifer]

       Things could have been kinda ugly, But Jennifer is kinda glad this happened, It means your human, Now to put this behind us? ...Btw I am so sorry for my "Edit" post.

[yotsuya]

But seriously, keep posting, good ideas and even not so good.  We're just trying to help hash it out for your benefit, as well as others who might be following along.

THIS.

[griffindodd]

       Things could have been kinda ugly, But Jennifer is kinda glad this happened, It means your human, one of us... Now to put this behind us?

Absolutely. I'm still waiting for the dang smaller ovens to arrive, I'm going to still use one as a small PC oven and throw the other one in the kitchen for crazy things like cooking food 

At this point I'm going to just get used to the process of doing some coating and see what kind of results come out. I'm going to experiment with the coin doors and return flaps on my paperboy. I'm having the coin door frame and coin inserts and coin return frames chromed and keeping the doors and flaps black.

[jennifer]

     This may be a dumb idea... But couldnt a waterheater be retrofited with a hinged top?...Or a removable top?

[griffindodd]

     This may be a dumb idea... But couldnt a waterheater be retrofited with a hinged top?...Or a removable top?

Anything metal that will take the heat will do

[ChadTower]

Depends how a water heater is lined.  It's not designed to be dry or operated all that hot.  Structurally it could be done but I'm not optimistic that the lining of a water heater would stand up to dry heat of over 300 degrees.

[jennifer]

   Thats a good point...Without lining it with steel, Probabbly more of a fire hazzard...Nevermind

[PL1]

Party on Garth

Party on Wayne.

hinged top?...Or a removable top?

The downside to that is that after you coat it, you have to hang the work piece to heat it.

With a top-loader, it seems like it would be harder to avoid bumping into the sides of the oven or the ceiling while hanging a long piece like a side rail.


Scott

[mcseforsale]

Anyway....drunk posting aside, I have a Harbor Freight about a block from my house and want a review of their powdercoater.  I see it every time I walk in the door.

AJ

[PL1]

Umm . . . you're mixing up Wayne's World and Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, AJ


Scott

[mcseforsale]

Let's continue to be excellent, push ourselves further and celebrate an era sadly less understood by generations that never had to save their quarters and travel to the local arcade to experience their wonder and joy.

Referencing the O(drunk)P. 

AJ

[geomartin]

Hey Griff,

I spoke to our powder coater today and he has the following tips for someone just learning:

Remember to chemically clean all parts, acetone wipe at the minimum, and pre-heat parts prior to coating.  Also, follow the MFG. recommended temps and bake times closely, and note temp and time can vary from one powder to another even from the same MFG.  Incorrect oven temp or soak time can lead to poor adhesion and cloudy finishes.  Also he stressed that your oven and work area need to be well ventilated due to the outgassing of the powder during bake and cure times.  I hope this helps.

Geo

[spoot]

Thanks for that Geo.......as this thread has made me look at doing some powder on the Virtual Pin I'm working on.   

[griffindodd]

Hey Griff,

I spoke to our powder coater today and he has the following tips for someone just learning:

Remember to chemically clean all parts, acetone wipe at the minimum, and pre-heat parts prior to coating.  Also, follow the MFG. recommended temps and bake times closely, and note temp and time can vary from one powder to another even from the same MFG.  Incorrect oven temp or soak time can lead to poor adhesion and cloudy finishes.  Also he stressed that your oven and work area need to be well ventilated due to the outgassing of the powder during bake and cure times.  I hope this helps.

Geo

Thanks for all this. Preheating brings up some questions that both myself and Neph had in the past. What temp should we be pre-heating to?

[griffindodd]

The super high tech spray booth and oven are nearly ready for trials. Using the old beat up oven and gave the wife the new one.



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[griffindodd]

Set up a little rail in the toaster oven to hang things from, I think I'm ready to give this a try



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[griffindodd]

Well it sure is messy alright . First piece is in and cooking as a type this. Very exciting.


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[griffindodd]

Well here we are...



A bit of orange peel but overall I think the result is pretty great, a nice even coat and if feels tough.

I'm going to call this a win

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[yotsuya]

 

[Nephasth]

Excellent results for at home in a toaster oven!

Was looking forward to the outcome of two oven fused together though...

Can't wait to see your custom oven!

[jennifer]

    Omg, he did it right out of the barn.... And even Jennifer gets impressed.

[griffindodd]

Lol, not bad for the first try, but lets find out if it was beginners luck. I think the eggshell was from putting a little too much powder on and the fact that the oven shut itself off a few minutes early on this attempt.

I cleaned off the piece with alcohol, and placed it in the oven while I pre-heated it up to about 300 degrees, I figured pre-heating the piece would help with the flow out of the powder, I'm sure I heard that somewhere and I know Geomartin mentioned it too. Also while it pre-heated I cleaned the inside of my throat with alcohol too which allows for smoothing spaying technique.

Next time I will reduce the powder gun pressure a little and go lighter on the powder, also make sure the oven doesn't turn off before the full 20 mins of curing.

[Le Chuck]

Are you sure you're using the right scotch for this application? Perhaps it requires gin.

[griffindodd]

Are you sure you're using the right scotch for this application? Perhaps it requires gin.

I'm going to make sure I try every possible combination to refine my technique, I do it in the name of science!

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[griffindodd]

Commence Project FrankenToaster!



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[griffindodd]

Winging it but this looks like its got potential



Going to extend the wires on those elements so they run into the first oven shell. Couldn't do the side by side with these ovens but combined they will give me about a cubic foot which should be pretty useful. Same technique for a long thin oven I guess

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[griffindodd]

Ahhhh ---fudgesicle--- it. I've had a few glasses of wine, let's do this the way we started out...



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[spoot]

Are you sure you're using the right scotch for this application? Perhaps it requires gin.

I'm going to make sure I try every possible combination to refine my technique, I do it in the name of science!

I'm doing science now!   Horray for whiskey!   

[yotsuya]

I say forget the power coating and make a kick ass footlong sub toaster! 

[griffindodd]

ITS ALIVE!



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[mcseforsale]

Toaster pron.  That's weird.  Leave it up to an Aussie/American/UK-ian to come up with that.  You feriners are weird!...and illegal in 37 states!

AJ

[Ond]

There's Aussie in this fella?  Where?

 

[griffindodd]

You can tell a man designed this, its got diamond plate



This is by far the most dangerous thing I have ever made. Still have to come up with something for that middle door but the chamber now measures 26” wide by 12” high by 10” deep.

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[griffindodd]

Have you ever seen something so beautiful before? I think not.



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[griffindodd]

There's Aussie in this fella?  Where?

 

They're making fun if my mashed up accent. Spent a year or do in Sydney as well as many other places so I'm verbally mutated

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[PL1]

For some reason, I'm picturing these posts by the unconventional conventionists in this Franken-. . .toaster thread.

Griff: Oh, I just love success!
Poster 1: It's a credit to your genius, Master.
Griff: Yes!
Poster 2: A triumph of your will.
Griff: Yes!
Poster 3: It's OK!
Griff: OK? OK? I think we can do better than that! . . .




Scott

[griffindodd]

 I didn't make him for you!... He carries the Charles Atlas seal of approval.

I'm naming him 'The Two-Headed Toast'

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[Ond]

I think you should post it over on KLOV as your latest WIP cab and seek honest opinions...confuse the ---fudgesicle--- out of them 

[PL1]

I think you should post it over on KLOV as your latest WIP cab and seek honest opinions...confuse the ---fudgesicle--- out of them 

. . . and claim that he's hoping to make it into a bartop version of this.




Scott

[dfmaverick]

This is by far the most dangerous thing I have ever made.

Just keep the fire extinguisher nearby and teach the kids how to dial 9-1-1.


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[emphatic]

Wow, serious toaster business in here.

[griffindodd]

I think I may sell this design to NASA, or Apple



Made the double walled insulated door out of the drip tray and a left over piece if the body. So far everything has come from the ovens except the door handle and the one piece if diamond plate

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[ChadTower]

Nice work on the initial test piece!  Looks way better than I thought it would out of that little oven with the element so closeby.   


I'm concerned about that huge toaster setup.  Not so much about the heat but about the current.  There are about a million places where that housing could be shorted and you're only going to find out when you wake up looking at the ceiling.  We're not talking electronics DC here.  That's straight up high current AC.

Consider using a real oven here or at least moving those guts into some intact housing that isn't hacked up on every surface.  A file cabinet comes to mind.

[griffindodd]

Aye Chad you are totally right, this thing really is a safety nightmare, although I did make sure that all wires and terminals were shielded with high temp cord and clear of any sharp edges. All I really want to see here is if I can get a space this large to hold temp with just the 1500w element, if I can successfully cook a few larger pieces like my bezel/glass rail then we've achieved the goal and proven that a standard toaster oven has enough power to powder coat moderate sized pieces at home.

The filing cabinet is absolutely a great candidate for this kind of thing, but to be honest, as long as I can cook my coin doors and lockdown rails for the Paperboy cab I'll be happy to trash this health hazard and wait for my real oven to be built. For teh cost of just getting the powder coating done at a shop, I bought a gun and learned enough to be dangerous while being able to point at my cab and say to my friends 'Oh yeah, yeah so I did all my own powder coating...what? yeah I do that stuff...yeah I do all my own stunts' 

[ChadTower]

Good. 

I still say propane is the better way to go in the long run.  With the right valve setup you can get temps just as stable as with electric without the risk of electrocution.  I can dial my propane meat smoker in within ten degrees anywhere from 125 to 400.  The only reason 400 is the upper limit is because I don't think my cabinet would stand up to more than that for extended heating times (plus who would want MEAT done that high). 

[griffindodd]

Good. 

I still say propane is the better way to go in the long run.  With the right valve setup you can get temps just as stable as with electric without the risk of electrocution.  I can dial my propane meat smoker in within ten degrees anywhere from 125 to 400.  The only reason 400 is the upper limit is because I don't think my cabinet would stand up to more than that for extended heating times (plus who would want MEAT done that high).

Yeah I've been looking at the propane and it sure looks to be the right approach for a larger oven. I still haven't heard from my buddy since I gave him those plans, so it's up in the air as to whether he can get it banged out for free by the fabrication shop, fingers crossed. But, if he does pull it off then I'm thinking of using a Mr. Heater 35,000 BTU constant electric ignition with a heat control/valve unit.

How do you control the temp on your smoker?

[ChadTower]

Most propane cookers will come with a grill type valve that will get you around 30 degrees of accuracy if you have a thermometer in the cabinet.  The limitation is that it won't give you all that much of a temp range.  They're designed to give you the fairly narrow range of temps at which you would cook on a grill.  You need more range than that for powdercoating.  I also need more control than that for my smoker because dehydrating can go as low as 125.  The lowest my smoker could keep stable was 175.

What I did was replace the hose/regulator assembly with with one that has an inline needle valve after the regulator.
This gives me the ability to keep the OEM burner fully open and control the propane far more finely.  The PSI on the regulator is your choice.  I think I put 12psi in mine and the needle valve allows me to open that puppy WAY up if I want.  The control on the needle valve is the key.  It really lets you fine tune the flame down to within about 10 degrees.  I like to use a remote meat thermometer inside the cabinet to get good accurate readings.  Once you dial that sucker in to the temp you want, leave it running about 10 mins to make sure it's stable, and it will only change if the environment does (rain, major wind, etc).

Here are a couple of pics I took when I was modding my smoker.