Virtual Reality

[fallacy]

Wrote a topic about VR before

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,112839.0.html

A new development has finally emerged! The Oculus Rift on kick starter. I am super excited about this. It sounds like he cracked the code on making a good functioning immersive headset. I have wanted a good gaming VR head set since I was 13 and still do. We all remember the 90’s were VR headsets were supposed to be the future; between bad movies and failed consumer products VR because something to laugh about at and mock. After trying this no one is laughing about it anymore, I can’t wait to have this sitting next to my computer to test some of my game design levels with it.

[ChadTower]

I remember playing an arcade "Game" around 1998 that was very immersive.  It was crude 3D, like Dire Straits type 3D, but you were definitely in there moving around a battlefield.

[yotsuya]

I remember playing an arcade "Game" around 1998 that was very immersive.  It was crude 3D, like Dire Straits type 3D, but you were definitely in there moving around a battlefield.

That ain't working. That's the way you do it.

[ChadTower]

Lemme tell you them guys ain't dumb.

[lilshawn]

that little fa... wait a minute!

I remember playing an arcade "Game" around 1998 that was very immersive.  It was crude 3D, like Dire Straits type 3D, but you were definitely in there moving around a battlefield.

probably one of these:

http://globalvr.com/products_v3_titles.html

[yotsuya]

that little fa... wait a minute!

Yeah, well, he's a millionaire.

[saint]

I remember playing an arcade "Game" around 1998 that was very immersive.  It was crude 3D, like Dire Straits type 3D, but you were definitely in there moving around a battlefield.

Pterodactyl?

[Howard_Casto]

Saint:  That's undoubtedly it.  I remember that thing... yeah it was cool but I think you had to pay 3 bucks for 5 minutes or some insaine price like that. 

Kickstarter should send up a red flag btw.  Developers turn to kickstarter when they can't get traditional investors.  If your product is actually good/working then you shouldn't need kickstarter. 

Also the thing is that this tech already exists... duct-tape a wiimote plus to your head and you've got head tracking.... then it's only a matter of finding an affordable display.  That's the key right there... it will probably end up costing more than your typical game console.  These vr devices have been released steadily over the past decade or so and none of them have caught on, mostly becuase you get a very low-res display on a device that costs hundereds of dollars.  This one will be no different.  Get halfway through the video and they tell you that the resolution is only 640x800. 

A useable vr headset isn't going to catch on until they can make at least a 720p display.  Really a higher resolution is needed though because the closer something is to your eye the more you can notice pixelation.

now if you'll excuse me, we've got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchens, refrigerators

[Well Fed Games]

Kickstarter should send up a red flag btw.  Developers turn to kickstarter when they can't get traditional investors.  If your product is actually good/working then you shouldn't need kickstarter. 

Eh, I am a bit sick of the kickstarter buzz as everyone is, but that statement seems a little overreaching. Lots of good stuff has come out of kickstarter, that might not have gotten a chance otherwise... personally I like the idea of the public deciding if a product comes to market as opposed to a bunch of suits in an office.

[ChadTower]

It wasn't any of those games.  I remember it as a bunch of 4' rounded platforms with railings to prevent you from wandering off or falling down.  You would step up into the circle, they'd close the door, and everybody could see you.  You would put on a helmet that was connected to a bunch of cables and maybe even an armature to bear some of its weight.  The game was something like a laser tag center is now.  A bunch of mazes/levels in which you were hunting other players and they were hunting you.  The graphics were very basic polygons and maybe some of them weren't even surfaced.  I don't remember for sure.  The only other thing I remember is that it was absurdly expensive for me as a college student so I only played it once.  It was like $10 for 5 minutes.

[koz319]

Sound like it might be Dactyl Nightmare, by Virtuality.



And to Howard, 

While the kickstarter unit isn't going to be dropping all the drooling fanboys into the matrix, it looks like there are some real differences here.   Very low latency head tracking being primary - latency from the wimote plus taped to your head would kill any attempts at immersion.  A much larger field of view - 110 deg (pretty much full fov) vs 45-60 deg for most everything else.  Although the resolution for the dev kit is (much) lower than anyone would consider ideal, the distortion from the lenses concentrates the highest pixel density in the center of the field of vision, where its needed most. (The consumer version is supposedly targeting 1080p in 2013, but now we are really in vaporware territory.)

I think it will be interesting to try these when they are released.



 

[ChadTower]

Sound like it might be Dactyl Nightmare, by Virtuality.

That is definitely the type of thing I remember.  Found this pic now that I have the title and this is it.

[lilshawn]

Although the resolution for the dev kit is (much) lower than anyone would consider ideal, the distortion from the lenses concentrates the highest pixel density in the center of the field of vision, where its needed most. (The consumer version is supposedly targeting 1080p in 2013, but now we are really in vaporware territory.)

I think it will be interesting to try these when they are released.

the funny thing about the human vision is, you don't need a super high resolution display...your brain tends to fill in missing portions of the image. that's why we don't see our blind spots constantly...why the world isn't a blur when we move our eyes around...why we can't see the scanning of the lines on a CRT.

The eye is designed pretty much the same as the VR display is... with high resolution centred in the image and lower resolution on the outside peripheral. your looking at your monitor right now...only the tiny portion you are currently looking at is in focus and sharp... i'll bet you as you read this... if you stop and stare at a letter you'd have a hard time even identifying something you are seeing as a letter 10 or 15 characters back.

your brain knows it's there...your eyes aren't looking at it...there is a super fuzzy peripheral image that your brain is on the fly trying to remember what it was to fill in that info. if you look at it...then look back. you'll likely be able to ID it now because your brain has the info needed to "fill in" the missing information.

ever look at a clock and think "that clock was stopped...it just started when i looked at it, i swear" It's because for a second as you moved your eyes your brain didn't process any visual information...when your eyes stopped at the clock, your brain now has a fraction of a second to fill in...so it does this with the first thing you see...the clock. so for the first time you see it, the time in the image has been stretched to fill in the gap. (this is called Chronostasis)

the brain is always trying to create this uninterrupted experience with reality, unfortunately with the design of the human body, this isn't always possible. So there are many ways to cope with it.

What are being viewed as "shortfalls" on the VR headset, are actually things that are designed to fool the mind into using your coping mechanisms to fill in the information and make the virtual reality more REAL. Your brain creates the reality you currently view. it only makes sense to me to use the brain to do the "leg work".

[wp34]

I played that as well.  A local video store had one as a demo for a few weeks.  I remember the experience being extremely immersive.  I would love to see something similar done with modern graphics.

Sound like it might be Dactyl Nightmare, by Virtuality.

That is definitely the type of thing I remember.  Found this pic now that I have the title and this is it.

[kahlid74]

Kickstarter should send up a red flag btw.  Developers turn to kickstarter when they can't get traditional investors.  If your product is actually good/working then you shouldn't need kickstarter. 

Also the thing is that this tech already exists... duct-tape a wiimote plus to your head and you've got head tracking.... then it's only a matter of finding an affordable display.  That's the key right there... it will probably end up costing more than your typical game console.  These vr devices have been released steadily over the past decade or so and none of them have caught on, mostly becuase you get a very low-res display on a device that costs hundereds of dollars.  This one will be no different.  Get halfway through the video and they tell you that the resolution is only 640x800. 

A useable vr headset isn't going to catch on until they can make at least a 720p display.  Really a higher resolution is needed though because the closer something is to your eye the more you can notice pixelation.

now if you'll excuse me, we've got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchens, refrigerators

Two things:
Your statement about Kickstarter isn't completely accurate.  Wasteland 2 and ShadowRun Returns failed through regular publishing channels, both have raised millions, both will make millions in the end and both are being developed by professional studios.  A more accurate statement would be that the majority of items on Kickstarter are geared towards smaller markets, where publishers and investors don't care to spend their money because the ROI isn't "big enough".  I have backed many projects the last several years on Kickstarter and not one has failed to deliver yet.  Will one fail? It's possible.  I like to read up on who is doing the project before I donate my money.

As for the VR headset sure, the technology has been around for a while, but what they're doing here is pushing us towards 720p and above.  They're re-opening the gates of a stagnant technology and breathing new life into it that will hopefully push us towards real HD headsets and VR.  Is this set it?  No, but it will sure be cool to see how it progresses. 

[saint]

Sound like it might be Dactyl Nightmare, by Virtuality.

That is definitely the type of thing I remember.  Found this pic now that I have the title and this is it.

Yeah, that's the game I meant though I mangled the title. I played that too - $10 for 10 minutes or whatever it was. I got to peek behind the scenes, it was run on an Amiga 3000. I had a chance to buy 2 pods and the system for a couple of grand way back when but didn't. Wish it'd been cheaper, I'd have jumped on it.

[fallacy]

VR headset history lesson if anyone is interested.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, that's the game I meant though I mangled the title. I played that too - $10 for 10 minutes or whatever it was. I got to peek behind the scenes, it was run on an Amiga 3000. I had a chance to buy 2 pods and the system for a couple of grand way back when but didn't. Wish it'd been cheaper, I'd have jumped on it.

I seem to remember the same sale.  Maybe it was on ebay?  I don't remember for sure but I do remember a couple units for sale for a price that at the time was well out of my range.  Probably still would be, who knows. 

[saint]

Yeah, that's the game I meant though I mangled the title. I played that too - $10 for 10 minutes or whatever it was. I got to peek behind the scenes, it was run on an Amiga 3000. I had a chance to buy 2 pods and the system for a couple of grand way back when but didn't. Wish it'd been cheaper, I'd have jumped on it.

I seem to remember the same sale.  Maybe it was on ebay?  I don't remember for sure but I do remember a couple units for sale for a price that at the time was well out of my range.  Probably still would be, who knows.

I believe it was ebay in fact. That's funny.

[Howard_Casto]

Although the resolution for the dev kit is (much) lower than anyone would consider ideal, the distortion from the lenses concentrates the highest pixel density in the center of the field of vision, where its needed most. (The consumer version is supposedly targeting 1080p in 2013, but now we are really in vaporware territory.)

I think it will be interesting to try these when they are released.

the funny thing about the human vision is, you don't need a super high resolution display...your brain tends to fill in missing portions of the image. that's why we don't see our blind spots constantly...why the world isn't a blur when we move our eyes around...why we can't see the scanning of the lines on a CRT.

The eye is designed pretty much the same as the VR display is... with high resolution centred in the image and lower resolution on the outside peripheral. your looking at your monitor right now...only the tiny portion you are currently looking at is in focus and sharp... i'll bet you as you read this... if you stop and stare at a letter you'd have a hard time even identifying something you are seeing as a letter 10 or 15 characters back.

your brain knows it's there...your eyes aren't looking at it...there is a super fuzzy peripheral image that your brain is on the fly trying to remember what it was to fill in that info. if you look at it...then look back. you'll likely be able to ID it now because your brain has the info needed to "fill in" the missing information.

ever look at a clock and think "that clock was stopped...it just started when i looked at it, i swear" It's because for a second as you moved your eyes your brain didn't process any visual information...when your eyes stopped at the clock, your brain now has a fraction of a second to fill in...so it does this with the first thing you see...the clock. so for the first time you see it, the time in the image has been stretched to fill in the gap. (this is called Chronostasis)

the brain is always trying to create this uninterrupted experience with reality, unfortunately with the design of the human body, this isn't always possible. So there are many ways to cope with it.

What are being viewed as "shortfalls" on the VR headset, are actually things that are designed to fool the mind into using your coping mechanisms to fill in the information and make the virtual reality more REAL. Your brain creates the reality you currently view. it only makes sense to me to use the brain to do the "leg work".

Now you are believing the hype that came with the press kit for this thing.  It is absolutely true that the mind fills in the gaps for a cruddy image, BUT the worse the image is, the harder the brain has processing information.  This leads to headaches, dizziness, imparied vision due to eye strain, ect.... actually just check out a virtual boy.    Also you absolutely can see the difference.  Get really close to your computer monitor right now, I mead headset close... you can see the pixels right?  Well that's a HD dot-pitch right there and even with focused pixels it isn't going to have that high a dot-pitch, so even if the bulk of the pixels are centered on the eye, it's going to look bad.  Also what happens when you move your eyes?  You aren't going to look dead straight ahead.

Regarding my statement about kickstarter.  It was intended as a blanket statement, but in general it holds true.  Yes of course lots of times it's just that the profit margin isn't big enough to get proper investors and if you are buying a widget that doesn't matter... pay X dollars, get your widget... Tim Shauffers game kickstarter is a good example... you'll get your game regardless of how well the title sells.  But this is a gaming controller  if a lot of people don't buy it then it won't be widely supported and thus you'll have a nice paperweight.  Aside from resolution issues, if you look back at every vr headset released thus far, this has been the other major issue... if they have any type of special interface/controller they got support for maybe 2 or 3 games before they disappeared.  This also holds true for these psuedo consoles that are popping up like the Ouya and these "smart tv" add-ons.  How do you expect the things to get any software on them if nobody buys them?

[Xiaou2]

I have a feeling, the guy isnt making odd density pixel lcds.  Instead, the use of lenses, which stretch out the image.  The center not having much / any lens effect, but the further you go from center, the lens effects are greater.

 This means that the game devs might have to output a slightly warped picture, for certain things to work right.

 Because the lenses create a distance effect, there's no chance you would see any pixel triads.  Its pretty much the same as the other older glasses.  Possibly a little closer (less lens distancing)  and thus slightly sharper.

 A 36" 1080p  HDTV at 50ft distance, is pretty much the same as lo-fi tv playing a standard dvd, at typical viewing distances.
A good example, is if you already are nearsighted.  Take your glasses off, and things are in half the clarity and detail.

 Another example, is my Sony 34" CRT  TUBE  HDTV.  Its full  1920 x 1280.  The picture is very vivid and clear. 

  I went over to a guys house, and he was playing Guitar hero PS2, on a 32" HDTV LCD.  Even on the best settings and connections... it Paled in comparison to my older crt TV.  The reason is simple.  LCDs dont look good at lower non-native resolutions.   His picture was all washed out, grayish.  Fuzzy.  Poor contrast.    I popped in the same game on the tube tv, and it was still crystal clear, and vibrant as heck... no matter what resolutions thrown at it.    At full native, sure, a modern display can show a truer and cleaner picture... but, its so good as is, that you just dont tend to care, nor even really notice.


 Now, Im all for Stereoscopic 3D.  However, I do agree that 800x600 is too low for my tastes... and not justifiable.  (especially cause you couldnt even use it to view 3d film  content on it correctly, due to the warped way in which it displays.     You could make a better static homebrew 3D viewer with full HD displays, for probably the same price.    But as for portable, movable, tracking... sure.. that wouldnt be as easy.

 If you are into those FPS games, it might be worth it.
Not so much for 3D Pr0n.

 Also note... that when you put on VR... you cant see your hands, unless theres specialty tracking in effect.  This means it could be awkward when trying to use the keyboard as a way to control things.

 And finally, the ability to easily see all around you, could open up a door to greater difficulty in 3d games... which might be nice... but at the same time, it could mean that due to the current formulaic standards, games will remain easy... and your visual & tracking advantages, will make is so easy and boring... that you wont even feel like playing at all.

[lilshawn]

Get really close to your computer monitor right now, I mead headset close... you can see the pixels right?  Well that's a HD dot-pitch right there and even with focused pixels it isn't going to have that high a dot-pitch, so even if the bulk of the pixels are centered on the eye, it's going to look bad.

wat?

get really close to your monitor...

yeah and i can see pixels...that because the pixel in the desktop display are frigging huge...also i'm seeing maybe a thousand or so (at a single time) pixels close up. (not 300,000 which is what you would have in a small high resolution (640x480) display)

300,000 painted elephants can look like the mona lisa if you get far enough away from it.

[kahlid74]

Regarding my statement about kickstarter.  It was intended as a blanket statement, but in general it holds true.  Yes of course lots of times it's just that the profit margin isn't big enough to get proper investors and if you are buying a widget that doesn't matter... pay X dollars, get your widget... Tim Shauffers game kickstarter is a good example... you'll get your game regardless of how well the title sells.  But this is a gaming controller  if a lot of people don't buy it then it won't be widely supported and thus you'll have a nice paperweight.  Aside from resolution issues, if you look back at every vr headset released thus far, this has been the other major issue... if they have any type of special interface/controller they got support for maybe 2 or 3 games before they disappeared.  This also holds true for these psuedo consoles that are popping up like the Ouya and these "smart tv" add-ons.  How do you expect the things to get any software on them if nobody buys them?

That makes more sense, I wish you would have clarified that to this specific type of hardware, as this type of thing on kickstarter is such a small minority.  As for the Occulus, several developers have already said they'll provide working games in it.  Whether it gets a huge amount of wide spread success is anyone's guess, and certainly their limiting display size hurts, but in the end, it's a gateway towards pushing us to the next thing.

[kahlid74]

Occulus Rift used at CES2013.  Looks good.

http://www.viddler.com/embed/3a63fa2d/?f=1&autoplay=0&player=full&secret=102545861&loop=false&nologo=false&hd=false

[Gray_Area]

You can tell it's a prototype - because they put the interface cable on the top!  Looks like they use a fairly high definition screen(s), and use curved lenses (hence the name Occulus) to 'flesh it out'.

You want a REAL virtual reality, just invite your dreams every night. Best thing about it is, you can play all night and wake up uber-refreshed. At least, I do from my dreams. Did this morning.

[ChadTower]

Is that where bottom heavy is always better than top heavy?

 

[Gray_Area]

Is that where bottom heavy is always better than top heavy?

 

Not just there. The majority of america doesn't seem to have the sensibility to know so, though.  ANHH! ANHH!

Had another beautiful dream last night. I make people, and one of them in this one was a girl. We fell in love. And made love. And I woke with the sweet scent of that in my mind and body. No need to have one here when I have one there with situational perfection. (Incidentally, she was not bottom heavy, and she didn't have perfect teeth. But she otherwise met my, rather specific, criteria.)

[CoryBee]

Is that where bottom heavy is always better than top heavy?

 

Not just there. The majority of america doesn't seem to have the sensibility to know so, though.  ANHH! ANHH!

Had another beautiful dream last night. I make people, and one of them in this one was a girl. We fell in love. And made love. And I woke with the sweet scent of that in my mind and body. No need to have one here when I have one there with situational perfection. (Incidentally, she was not bottom heavy, and she didn't have perfect teeth. But she otherwise met my, rather specific, criteria.)

.......

[yotsuya]

Is that where bottom heavy is always better than top heavy?

 

Not just there. The majority of america doesn't seem to have the sensibility to know so, though.  ANHH! ANHH!

Had another beautiful dream last night. I make people, and one of them in this one was a girl. We fell in love. And made love. And I woke with the sweet scent of that in my mind and body. No need to have one here when I have one there with situational perfection. (Incidentally, she was not bottom heavy, and she didn't have perfect teeth. But she otherwise met my, rather specific, criteria.)

.......

[lilshawn]

Is that where bottom heavy is always better than top heavy?

 

Not just there. The majority of america doesn't seem to have the sensibility to know so, though.  ANHH! ANHH!

Had another beautiful dream last night. I make people, and one of them in this one was a girl. We fell in love. And made love. And I woke with the sweet scent of that in my mind and body. No need to have one here when I have one there with situational perfection. (Incidentally, she was not bottom heavy, and she didn't have perfect teeth. But she otherwise met my, rather specific, criteria.)

.......

isn't this the storyline from an aerosmith music video?

[Gray_Area]

isn't this the storyline from an aerosmith music video?

Hah-hah-hah-hah. No no nooo. In any case, it doesn't matter the content/exploration. The point is, most people are missin out on a natural resource.

[fallacy]

Received all these videos from their mailing list. This is going to be even better than I originally thought. I WANT IT NOW 

[NiN^_^NiN]

I actually have a kit for myself as well from the original Kickstarter way back and I'm very excited about it as well

Here is a cool vid of inside the actual headset.

[Gray_Area]

I actually have a kit for myself as well from the original Kickstarter way back and I'm very excited about it as well

Here is a cool vid of inside the actual headset.

Looks pretty smoove....

[kahlid74]

Half-Life2 moded to work with VR systems and will incorporate with the Occulus Rift when it hits.



Also on Jimmy Falon:

http://www.nbc.com/assets/video/widget/widget.html?vid=n32196

[NiN^_^NiN]

Just thought this would be of interest here

https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=311



It uses the Razer Hydra controllers as well so it should be pretty immersive.

Sadly I still haven't recieved my kit they have only started to send a small batch overseas and even smaller batch for australia so I will have to wait to try this one.

But who knows maybe a Virtual Arcade could be created.

[sdweim85]

In Disneyworld at Downtown Disney they had a few VR games that actually were awesome.  One was where you and 3 people got into this ship, and one piloted, and the other 3 were gunners on each of the other sides of the ship.

And the other one which was amazing was a pirate ship and one person steered the wheel, and the other 2 manned the cannons.  And the guy steering would do his best to avoid the rocks in the water while trying to line up the ship for the cannons.

That was the best ride ever.

[kahlid74]

Just thought this would be of interest here

It uses the Razer Hydra controllers as well so it should be pretty immersive.

Sadly I still haven't recieved my kit they have only started to send a small batch overseas and even smaller batch for australia so I will have to wait to try this one.

But who knows maybe a Virtual Arcade could be created.

My Kit shipped, so hopefully I'll be getting it soon.  Also, don't forget to get this when it kickstarts - http://www.virtuix.com/

[Howard_Casto]

Umm... unless I'm really misunderstanding something that's just a platform.  The project home bills it as an "omi directional treadmill" but seeing as how there are no belts or moving parts of any kind, they've just put a really slick bowl in the middle and you slide around in your socks. 

[yotsuya]

Umm... unless I'm really misunderstanding something that's just a platform.  The project home bills it as an "omi directional treadmill" but seeing as how there are no belts or moving parts of any kind, they've just put a really slick bowl in the middle and you slide around in your socks.

 

[Nephasth]

Umm... unless I'm really misunderstanding something that's just a platform.  The project home bills it as an "omi directional treadmill" but seeing as how there are no belts or moving parts of any kind, they've just put a really slick bowl in the middle and you slide around in your socks.

"Special shoes."

"The Omni's strongest part is that it has no electronics and no moving parts, which keeps the cost down," says Goetgeluk. "It has a low-friction surface with grooves, and comes with a pair of low-friction shoes that have a plunger pin at the bottom that fit in the surface grooves. As such, your foot is stabilized when walking, instead of sliding left and right as if you were walking on ice. The gait feels natural and effortless," he tells us.

[Vigo]

Hey I've got a great idea you guys! Slick shoes!

[Howard_Casto]

Umm... unless I'm really misunderstanding something that's just a platform.  The project home bills it as an "omi directional treadmill" but seeing as how there are no belts or moving parts of any kind, they've just put a really slick bowl in the middle and you slide around in your socks.

"Special shoes."

"The Omni's strongest part is that it has no electronics and no moving parts, which keeps the cost down," says Goetgeluk. "It has a low-friction surface with grooves, and comes with a pair of low-friction shoes that have a plunger pin at the bottom that fit in the surface grooves. As such, your foot is stabilized when walking, instead of sliding left and right as if you were walking on ice. The gait feels natural and effortless," he tells us.

Well that's even worse.  Sounds like a good way to break an ankle.  I'm not kidding, that seems inherently dangerous. 

Vigo:  that's pure awesome.

[ChadTower]

I'm holding out with the one that comes with wheels and a teething ring.  I will totally ride like a gangsta and terrorize the cat.

[kahlid74]

Umm... unless I'm really misunderstanding something that's just a platform.  The project home bills it as an "omi directional treadmill" but seeing as how there are no belts or moving parts of any kind, they've just put a really slick bowl in the middle and you slide around in your socks.

"Special shoes."

"The Omni's strongest part is that it has no electronics and no moving parts, which keeps the cost down," says Goetgeluk. "It has a low-friction surface with grooves, and comes with a pair of low-friction shoes that have a plunger pin at the bottom that fit in the surface grooves. As such, your foot is stabilized when walking, instead of sliding left and right as if you were walking on ice. The gait feels natural and effortless," he tells us.

Well that's even worse.  Sounds like a good way to break an ankle.  I'm not kidding, that seems inherently dangerous. 

Vigo:  that's pure awesome.

Good questions and concerns but if you watch the video, it doesn't seem like the guy is really "slipping" or struggling beyond the confines of the device itself.  It seems moderately fluid in it's inception but it is only a video at a lower resolution.  True to life tests will prove how safe/feasible it really it.

[Howard_Casto]

I watched the video, but I also kept in mind that they have people that worked on it's development doing the demo.  If you know the device inside and out you know how to walk on it.  Even then, it looked like he was kind of locked in place to me. 

[ChadTower]

That thing just screams "Michael Jackson 1984" VR game to me.  I could totally moonwalk the hell out of that thing.

[NiN^_^NiN]

I watched the video, but I also kept in mind that they have people that worked on it's development doing the demo.  If you know the device inside and out you know how to walk on it.  Even then, it looked like he was kind of locked in place to me.

It's a natural walk there isn't any learning to walk or get your balance on it or a possibility of the groves to make twist your ankle etc it really isn't any different than walking.

Also Palmer Luckey (Oculus Rift Creator), Chris Roberts (Wing Commander) and Paul Bettner (Zynga with Friends) tried the Omni at SXSW in Austin and loved it so much they allowed filming of them using it to  be used in the Kickstarter that is coming soon.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Just thought this would be of interest here

It uses the Razer Hydra controllers as well so it should be pretty immersive.

Sadly I still haven't recieved my kit they have only started to send a small batch overseas and even smaller batch for australia so I will have to wait to try this one.

But who knows maybe a Virtual Arcade could be created.

My Kit shipped, so hopefully I'll be getting it soon.  Also, don't forget to get this when it kickstarts - http://www.virtuix.com/

I want to get it when it Kickstarts but it might be too much to have it shipped all the way downunder

[Howard_Casto]

I watched the video, but I also kept in mind that they have people that worked on it's development doing the demo.  If you know the device inside and out you know how to walk on it.  Even then, it looked like he was kind of locked in place to me.

It's a natural walk there isn't any learning to walk or get your balance on it or a possibility of the groves to make twist your ankle etc it really isn't any different than walking.

Also Palmer Luckey (Oculus Rift Creator), Chris Roberts (Wing Commander) and Paul Bettner (Zynga with Friends) tried the Omni at SXSW in Austin and loved it so much they allowed filming of them using it to  be used in the Kickstarter that is coming soon.

Well considering I have zero faith in the OR, that doesn't really help me any.  People keep quoting this big time developers that are endorsing the OR, but if you look into it they are the very same developers that endorsed all the lame VR attempts in the 90's that crashed and bombed.  I'm sure it will be a serviceable device, but thus far there are zero games that support it, people have just hacked up existing games to work with the thing.  So unless it catches on, the thing will be devoid of support in just a short time.

[Gray_Area]

Umm... unless I'm really misunderstanding something that's just a platform.  The project home bills it as an "omi directional treadmill" but seeing as how there are no belts or moving parts of any kind, they've just put a really slick bowl in the middle and you slide around in your socks. 

Eh, looks cool enough

[ChadTower]

Why is it always a first person "run around with guns and shoot anything that moves" game?   


Granted, the answer is probably that this is far easier to design from a story point of view.  Drop everyone into an environment with a weapon and let them kill each other.  I'd much rather see a puzzle solving type game here or an Indiana Jones type quest with some randomization of item locations and such.

[NiN^_^NiN]

I watched the video, but I also kept in mind that they have people that worked on it's development doing the demo.  If you know the device inside and out you know how to walk on it.  Even then, it looked like he was kind of locked in place to me.

It's a natural walk there isn't any learning to walk or get your balance on it or a possibility of the groves to make twist your ankle etc it really isn't any different than walking.

Also Palmer Luckey (Oculus Rift Creator), Chris Roberts (Wing Commander) and Paul Bettner (Zynga with Friends) tried the Omni at SXSW in Austin and loved it so much they allowed filming of them using it to  be used in the Kickstarter that is coming soon.

Well considering I have zero faith in the OR, that doesn't really help me any.  People keep quoting this big time developers that are endorsing the OR, but if you look into it they are the very same developers that endorsed all the lame VR attempts in the 90's that crashed and bombed.  I'm sure it will be a serviceable device, but thus far there are zero games that support it, people have just hacked up existing games to work with the thing.  So unless it catches on, the thing will be devoid of support in just a short time.

I have looked and not one of the big time devs you talked about endorsed VR back in the 90's
John Carmack's company liceneced out their games to other companies that used them for VR but they didn't endorse them.
Michael Abrash played with VR but never endorsed anything.
Gabe Newell possibly played with VR but he was with Microsoft at that time.

You don't like it I get it but don't throw out wild speculation about these devs doing stuff they didn't. You obviously don't like it for whatever reason so chuff to you.

Also you do realise this is a Development Kit right? which only started shipping at the end of march and a lot of the dev's are still waiting (Only about 4000 how now been shipped I think) so don't expect games to pop up in a few weeks to be built for the OR give it some slack this is the whole point for the Dev kits so games can be built from the ground up to support VR.

There are a lot of great demo's out there for the Unit and Team Fortress 2 and Hawken support the rift and it works very well I think that's pretty good seeming how short the timeframe has been.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Why is it always a first person "run around with guns and shoot anything that moves" game?   


Granted, the answer is probably that this is far easier to design from a story point of view.  Drop everyone into an environment with a weapon and let them kill each other.  I'd much rather see a puzzle solving type game here or an Indiana Jones type quest with some randomization of item locations and such.

Mostly cause FPS's are the easiest one's to have modded or made for the OR so far.

I think you will love The Gallery http://www.thegallerygame.com/

It's a puzzle solving game which lets you explore multiple worlds and environments and the world is randomized where you need to use a spray can to mark the way you come in cause you can get turned around.

Also the cool thing is it uses the razer hydra for hands so you can pickup planks of wood to lay across a bridge to get over broken boards so you don't fall etc

It's built for OR but also for normal displays too check out a few of the vids I think you will enjoy it

[ChadTower]

You're right.  After watching those intro vids I have to stay seated for a while.  That looks amazing if it's real.   


EDIT:  Meh.  The OR has no release date, development timeline, or anticipated price.  Not exactly promising.
 

[lilshawn]

Why is it always a first person "run around with guns and shoot anything that moves" game?   


Granted, the answer is probably that this is far easier to design from a story point of view.  Drop everyone into an environment with a weapon and let them kill each other.  I'd much rather see a puzzle solving type game here or an Indiana Jones type quest with some randomization of item locations and such.

I would imagine any game that supports nvidia 3d vision or AMD HD3D will support this device.

and hello?! Minecraft FTW! Minecraft would be absolutely wonderful with this.

[fallacy]

There is not a single person that has put it on that has a single negative thing to say about it.. I have been looking.  Everyone goes on about not only the sense of depth but now everything has a sense of scale. There is no software that has been built to VR because there has never been a VR helmet that worked.  Now that there is and even more important it will be at a price that anyone can afford, VR is not going to go away like it did in the 90’, now it is just a question on how fast it will kick off.

[ChadTower]

I'll believe when they announce it for themselves.  They haven't even done that much.  Until it has at least a projected quarter for release it's just another product candidate.  Not an actual product.

[Gray_Area]

The screwy manifest of human nature makes the world plenty puzzle-y. A lot of people don't want any more.....  I don't want any of it.

[NiN^_^NiN]

You're right.  After watching those intro vids I have to stay seated for a while.  That looks amazing if it's real.   


EDIT:  Meh.  The OR has no release date, development timeline, or anticipated price.  Not exactly promising.

There isn't a release date but they are aiming for the $300 or under goal for the consumer version and 2014 will most likely be the release date they have stated they want VR to happen but don't want it to have to wait so your got a company that's passionate and just wants to bring the VR dream alive and bring it fast. I was very impressed with the dev kit they produced for $300 it was just expected to be the headunit and control box but the added in lenses, moveable distance for the screen and a nice case too they at least how a lot of people view them a company that doesn't care about money but about making what they believe (They have a nice sized cache of cash from the kickstarter and a few investors who are the staff and have stated they don't want to sell the company they way to bring VR) I think that makes for a positive outcome

I'll believe when they announce it for themselves.  They haven't even done that much.  Until it has at least a projected quarter for release it's just another product candidate.  Not an actual product.

Very true but see above plus they have the whole gaming industry buzzing with support built or being built into most of the major game engines.
Compared to previous VR we have it where most devs can make a OR game that the engine supports it and a lot of them are adding it to the engine as well for their projects that don't support it.

I would imagine any game that supports nvidia 3d vision or AMD HD3D will support this device.

and hello?! Minecraft FTW! Minecraft would be absolutely wonderful with this.

The device doesn't use anything like nvidia or AMD's sort of 3D but you are right if your pc can support the 3D with 60FPS with v-sync on then you can most likely use the OR it all depends on the game.

I can't wait to try out Minecraft when it's released with OR for it that will be so awesome

There is not a single person that has put it on that has a single negative thing to say about it.. I have been looking.  Everyone goes on about not only the sense of depth but now everything has a sense of scale. There is no software that has been built to VR because there has never been a VR helmet that worked.  Now that there is and even more important it will be at a price that anyone can afford, VR is not going to go away like it did in the 90’, now it is just a question on how fast it will kick off.

This is why I am excited about it everyone has been positive even if they fell quite sick from it (Some people need to get their VR legs so to speak) because it's technology that's finally up to the VR standard we were told about in the 90's

This fills up your entire field of view so your in the game but it's not flat and it's not like standard 3D monitors either it's natural 3D it feels the same as it does in the real world you know the distance in the headset like you do in real life you can see and sense how far away the tree is in VR)

We also finally have latency down far enough that when you turn your head the world turns with you there isn't a break in the immersion like the 90's headsets which trailed behind you turning your head.

I am really excited cause I know what it was like in the 90's looking at VR and seeing the disappointment from what we were told or shown in movies to the actual experience and now we have it

Check out a lot of the rift reaction video's and you notice a lot of these people have there jaws open astounded by it (There is actually a thread with pics of everyone who did this)

It's sad though cause the rift really is a device that you need to try to truly try to understand how great it is even though we have a few people excited here and understand how it works that still doesn't prepare you for how fantastic it really is when you try it out

I'm rambling as im just so excited by this and I just got changed to processing which means I should have my rift soon so I will come back in and let people know what my thoughts are on it.

I'll just leave 2 new reaction video's here



This is a great one and also shows you what happens when you aren't the one controlling movement.

[ChadTower]

Very true but see above plus they have the whole gaming industry buzzing with support built or being built into most of the major game engines.
Compared to previous VR we have it where most devs can make a OR game that the engine supports it and a lot of them are adding it to the engine as well for their projects that don't support it.

I've been in R+D a long time.  Information on a product release only matters when they are comfortable enough to commit to it via public announcement.  Anything else is just buzz.  I'm not a fan, I'm a consumer, and the only thing that matters to me is price point and release date.   

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at.  Good things and positive buzz don't get us actual games or an actual consumer level product. 

And like I said before these "industry giants" that are endorsing the thing... they are more or less the exact same ones that said the previous 12 attempts at VR were great and perfect and that they would make tons of games for it.  They are just older and fatter now. 

And for the record, I've seen tons of negative comments about the thing.  Perhaps you just aren't looking in the right places.  Complaints of eye strain, disorientation, ect.... sounds like Virtual Boy stuff to be honest.  People say that it has a very impressive 3d effect, and that's great, but they also say that you can't play it very long for the aforementioned reasons and that the display is decidedly low-res, despite the developers ridiculous claims of "putting the pixels where eye sees them most".  Sorry guys, but if they were doing that they'd be manufacturing custom lcd screens, which would have made the dev kits cost thousands.  They just stuck a lens in front to distort the image. 

Until we see anything more than dev kits I equate this thing to the Ouya.  Boy you guys were excited about that one.  Don't hear much about it lately do you?  Perhaps it's because since then companies have been releasing "android on a stick" devices with twice the specs for half the price. 

I think the problem is people are used to product announcements from legitimate game companies.  When Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony announce a project you can pretty well count on it being released and it being a rough approximation of what they previewed.  When joe nobody and their friends do a kickstarter you won't know what the actual product is and if it will be released until it's actually released.   That isn't a knock on kick-starter, it's just that they use previews as hype to get funding... so the truth might be stretched, they might make promises they can't keep ect....you never know. 

I would genuinely like to be wrong on this, VR is really cool, but I'm pretty sure I won't be. 

[ChadTower]

I think any completely immersive headset is going to have issues with eye strain and disorientation.  There are too many variations in focal distance, visual processing, inner ear shapes, etc among people.  No single fixed device is going to be comfortable for everybody.  Even passive 3D movie tech has these issues to a lesser extent.  I go to some 3D movies and it's great.  I go to others and it's like I'm watching two separate async images.  Ironically, it's usually the lower end horror movies like the Texas Chainsaw remake that are best for me.  The last Harry Potter movie was a total visual fail to my eyes.

If it matters I never had any of those issues with the VB.  I had an injury a few years ago and played through the whole US library lying on my back.  Not one headache and I was skipping the pauses.  I think a lot of those headache complaints were neck problems from the crappy stand.

[kahlid74]

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at.  Good things and positive buzz don't get us actual games or an actual consumer level product. 

And like I said before these "industry giants" that are endorsing the thing... they are more or less the exact same ones that said the previous 12 attempts at VR were great and perfect and that they would make tons of games for it.  They are just older and fatter now. 

And for the record, I've seen tons of negative comments about the thing.  Perhaps you just aren't looking in the right places.  Complaints of eye strain, disorientation, ect.... sounds like Virtual Boy stuff to be honest.  People say that it has a very impressive 3d effect, and that's great, but they also say that you can't play it very long for the aforementioned reasons and that the display is decidedly low-res, despite the developers ridiculous claims of "putting the pixels where eye sees them most".  Sorry guys, but if they were doing that they'd be manufacturing custom lcd screens, which would have made the dev kits cost thousands.  They just stuck a lens in front to distort the image. 

Until we see anything more than dev kits I equate this thing to the Ouya.  Boy you guys were excited about that one.  Don't hear much about it lately do you?  Perhaps it's because since then companies have been releasing "android on a stick" devices with twice the specs for half the price. 

I think the problem is people are used to product announcements from legitimate game companies.  When Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony announce a project you can pretty well count on it being released and it being a rough approximation of what they previewed.  When joe nobody and their friends do a kickstarter you won't know what the actual product is and if it will be released until it's actually released.   That isn't a knock on kick-starter, it's just that they use previews as hype to get funding... so the truth might be stretched, they might make promises they can't keep ect....you never know. 

I would genuinely like to be wrong on this, VR is really cool, but I'm pretty sure I won't be.

Time will tell whether games are actually released to support it.  At the end of the day I would expect you to be more right than wrong as history has a strong indication of how these things go.  I've had a chance to play previous incarnations of VR headsets/systems and I've played TF2 on the Occulus and it's a big difference from the old.  Distortion and eye strain most certainly exist but it didn't take away from the play experience I had.  If I had to scale them the Occulus is definitely a revolution technology/experience wise compared to that of the old.

Ouya wise it wasn't ever really about the specs, but more the entire package and ecosystem.  The amount of money they generated provided them with a platform to launch a successful ecosystem that has the possibility to be something pretty fantastic.  I'm indifferent about the Ouya but having played TF2 on the Occulus I'm a happy campaign funder.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at.  Good things and positive buzz don't get us actual games or an actual consumer level product. 

I think this is where your wrong this has created so much buzz and and interest that there is huge demand for a consumer version and various game engines have support built in with many more coming along soon.

This isn't like the old days of VR where a product is released and then you need people to support it they have gone the right route to make sure it's available for devs and to create ties with Unity and Unreal to make sure their engines provide support (Which I have been using to create stuff and it's as simple as change a few variables and you now have VR) and we have many indie and big names who have already pledged or have VR working in their titles and it's just spreading like wildfire atm where most games are now integrating VR support.

As I said there hasn't been many dev kits in the arms of devs atm but the amount of demo's and game previews that have VR support is pretty large.

And like I said before these "industry giants" that are endorsing the thing... they are more or less the exact same ones that said the previous 12 attempts at VR were great and perfect and that they would make tons of games for it.  They are just older and fatter now. 

You keep saying these industry giants yet the main ones who have supported the rift weren't the ones saying the last attempts at VR were great I am curious who these people are cause you keep saying it's the same people without saying who?

It seems to me you don't like VR which is fine I do hope you get to try a rift to at least see what all the buzz is but the people backing this are the industry giants and everyone who's tried it is excited it's pushed the whole gaming industry to look at using this technology it has done what previous VR hasn't got the people who make the games wanting to build for it.

And for the record, I've seen tons of negative comments about the thing.  Perhaps you just aren't looking in the right places.  Complaints of eye strain, disorientation, ect.... sounds like Virtual Boy stuff to be honest.  People say that it has a very impressive 3d effect, and that's great, but they also say that you can't play it very long for the aforementioned reasons and that the display is decidedly low-res, despite the developers ridiculous claims of "putting the pixels where eye sees them most".  Sorry guys, but if they were doing that they'd be manufacturing custom lcd screens, which would have made the dev kits cost thousands.  They just stuck a lens in front to distort the image. 

I have never seen anyone complain about real eyestrain and with good reason the lens will focus your eyes at infinity so it's the same amount of eye strain as looking at mountains far away in the distance there have been some people who had eyestrain but once they set the rift up with their correct IDP or even just wear glasses with it etc they didn't have issues so I think that would be more an issue with people aren't in the norm with the IDP range and might not have set it up for their eyes properly. I'm not saying it's not possible but a lot of the people who have the kits are on the oculus subreddit or the oculus dev forums and any issues they had have have been fixed with tweaking their settings to how their eyes are.

Honestly though It doesn't sound like you have really read up a lot about this product more just seen a few pics and are basing your opinions on old VR tech that had a lot of side affects from using it at least that's how it seems.

Yes there is possibility to be sick but we have seen with all these people who felt a bit sick in the stomach using it after 5 to 10mins they were fine once they used it some more. The saying goes you need to get your VR legs and once your try it a few more times you get acclimated to it and are fine.

There of course like all technology will be a few people who might not be able to use it but I think this would mostly be stuck to people who get motion sick playing games on normal monitors (Although I did read one guy who gets sick playing games on a normal monitor was totally fine using the rift)

I think the problem is people are used to product announcements from legitimate game companies.  When Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony announce a project you can pretty well count on it being released and it being a rough approximation of what they previewed.  When joe nobody and their friends do a kickstarter you won't know what the actual product is and if it will be released until it's actually released.   That isn't a knock on kick-starter, it's just that they use previews as hype to get funding... so the truth might be stretched, they might make promises they can't keep ect....you never know. 

True some kickstarters stretch the truth but when you have people who use this thing and even if they feel sick but still love it and want to use it more you know your got something great on your hands.  As kahlid74 said it is a revolution technology/experience wise compared to that of the old tech.

I think any completely immersive headset is going to have issues with eye strain and disorientation.  There are too many variations in focal distance, visual processing, inner ear shapes, etc among people.  No single fixed device is going to be comfortable for everybody.  Even passive 3D movie tech has these issues to a lesser extent.  I go to some 3D movies and it's great.  I go to others and it's like I'm watching two separate async images.  Ironically, it's usually the lower end horror movies like the Texas Chainsaw remake that are best for me.  The last Harry Potter movie was a total visual fail to my eyes.

This is very true everyone is different and there will always be people who may be unable to use it but with it focused to infinity and low latency headtracker it eliminates so many problems and allows a lot of people who couldn't use old VR tech before the only downside to the current dev kit is no positional tracking so if someone does lean forward quite a lot motion sickness will kick in as that isn't translated on the screen as movement but very few have had issues with it and it is being worked on for the consumer version.

If it matters I never had any of those issues with the VB.  I had an injury a few years ago and played through the whole US library lying on my back.  Not one headache and I was skipping the pauses.  I think a lot of those headache complaints were neck problems from the crappy stand.

I would say it is the neck issues that cause the rest of the problems but the screen probably did cause a few issues as well which just made it worse but there is a VB emulator for the rift which I am excited to play I am curious if you have any games you recommend to try out first seeming as your had a chance to play the whole US library of games

Time will tell whether games are actually released to support it.  At the end of the day I would expect you to be more right than wrong as history has a strong indication of how these things go.  I've had a chance to play previous incarnations of VR headsets/systems and I've played TF2 on the Occulus and it's a big difference from the old.  Distortion and eye strain most certainly exist but it didn't take away from the play experience I had.  If I had to scale them the Occulus is definitely a revolution technology/experience wise compared to that of the old.

Do you have a kit already? or did you get to try it out? Id like to hear more about your experiences

Also TF2 lets you adjust it to your exact IDP to make sure you see the picture clearly and don't have anything that's just outside your IDP range that might cause your eyes to get tired quickly have you had a chance to play around with that?

Ouya wise it wasn't ever really about the specs, but more the entire package and ecosystem.  The amount of money they generated provided them with a platform to launch a successful ecosystem that has the possibility to be something pretty fantastic.  I'm indifferent about the Ouya but having played TF2 on the Occulus I'm a happy campaign funder.

Glad to hear your a happy funder Have you tried any other demo's if you have your kit yet?

[ChadTower]

I would say it is the neck issues that cause the rest of the problems but the screen probably did cause a few issues as well which just made it worse but there is a VB emulator for the rift which I am excited to play I am curious if you have any games you recommend to try out first seeming as your had a chance to play the whole US library of games

Best game for the system is Wario Land, IMO.  The game that probably makes best use of the tech is Mario's Tennis if it isn't Wario Land.  Not surprisingly the best games that were released in the US were first party Nintendo.

[fallacy]

I would say it is the neck issues that cause the rest of the problems but the screen probably did cause a few issues as well which just made it worse but there is a VB emulator for the rift which I am excited to play I am curious if you have any games you recommend to try out first seeming as your had a chance to play the whole US library of games

Best game for the system is Wario Land, IMO.  The game that probably makes best use of the tech is Mario's Tennis if it isn't Wario Land.  Not surprisingly the best games that were released in the US were first party Nintendo.

This guy is already making virtual boy like game for the rift, he says it looks great on it.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Best game for the system is Wario Land, IMO.  The game that probably makes best use of the tech is Mario's Tennis if it isn't Wario Land.  Not surprisingly the best games that were released in the US were first party Nintendo.

Sweet I will make sure they are the ones I play with first

This guy is already making virtual boy like game for the rift, he says it looks great on it.

Yep exact reason why I want to see what games are best to try first

Also this being arcade related and might be fun for some of you guys who live near it

VRcade

[ChadTower]

Heh... if that ever actually happens it will be so expensive most people will never do it more than once if ever.  Sounds too good to be true at any sort of accessible price point.

[lilshawn]

THINE WILL BE DONE!

[Gray_Area]

I think any completely immersive headset is going to have issues with eye strain and disorientation.  There are too many variations in focal distance, visual processing, inner ear shapes, etc among people.  No single fixed device is going to be comfortable for everybody.

Hell, some people still can't handle 60hz display.....

[kahlid74]

So I've had a few days playing with my Occulus Rift.  I've got some pictures but am having trouble getting them to a computer so I'll post them later.  Here's the skinny from my perspective:

First thoughts:
It comes in a nice sturdy cardboard box with UPS requesting signature.  Happy about that.  The Occulus rift carrying case is hard plastic and very well designed.  Looks, feels and works great.  Opening it up everything is tightly/neatly packed.  Unboxing in a breeze.

I plugged it in, booted up TF2 and had a go.  To be brutally honest, it took my breath away the first time playing.  I played for roughly 7 minutes before having to rip it off my head because I felt like dry heaving and was covered in sweat like I had just run a few miles.  I had no eye strain or discomfort like that but I had a moderate headache and was still drenched in sweat.

So yeah, it's pretty awesome but from a play perspective everything people say about discomfort and weird affects are true.  It hits people differently.  I've now played four more times varying 5-10 minutes a time.  I don't have anymore dry heaving, I still break out in sweat and the headaches are significantly less than they were before.

PROs:
Great build quality, super easy to configure/connect and fantastic when gaming.  So much damn fun.

Cons:
Definitely get the sick feelings from it (I get motion sickness so this may be why it affects me more?).  Resolution is small, which is what Howard and many others have been pointing out often.  It is not noticeable in the game unless you are doing one of two things, navigating menus (which is literally impossible) or sniping, which the resolution really hurts you on.

The other big con is understanding how the Look to Mouse to movement transfers.  Literally while playing I was looking at the bottom left corner and firing at a guy and was like "WTF, how is he still alive" and then I heard people on voice saying "who is that moron shooting rockets into the sky?" and I was like heh, that dudes a noob.  Then the next guy the same stuff was happening to me and then I noticed that while I was looking in the bottom left my cursor was in the upper right aiming at the sky, I was the damn noob lol.

The Occulus rift is not a revolution of VR, but perhaps a new evolution?  I'm pleased with owning it and trying it out and having fun with it.

[Gray_Area]

...then I noticed that while I was looking in the bottom left my cursor was in the upper right aiming at the sky, I was the damn noob lol.

Yeah, notice the people in the demos are doing 'locked in a Batman suit' visual directional movements.

[fallacy]

The Occulus rift is not a revolution of VR, but perhaps a new evolution?  I'm pleased with owning it and trying it out and having fun with it.

I have heard some people say playing TF makes you think the Rift is not as good as it is. Have you tried the room demo what did you think of that?

[lilshawn]

anybody hear? one of the founders of the Oculus company got taken out during a police chase??? CRAZY!

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=9122999

[kahlid74]

anybody hear? one of the founders of the Oculus company got taken out during a police chase??? CRAZY!

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=9122999

I read that in Pulse last night, crazy.  Just another reminder of how short and fragile life is.

The Occulus rift is not a revolution of VR, but perhaps a new evolution?  I'm pleased with owning it and trying it out and having fun with it.

I have heard some people say playing TF makes you think the Rift is not as good as it is. Have you tried the room demo what did you think of that?

TF is amazing with the rift, it's fantastic.  Super fun.  The room demo is a different feel.  It's slowed down and feels much more comfortable.  No headache or stomach wheezyness but still sweating.

[ChadTower]

No matter how cool the buzz makes it sound it is not a good sign when even those who are strongly advocating the device say things like "I don't have anymore dry heaving, I still break out in sweat and the headaches are significantly less than they were before".

I don't need a gaming device that gives me a hangover.  I already have ways of doing that to myself.

[kahlid74]

The Omni is now on Kickstarter - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-your-favorite-game

Interesting price point.

[lilshawn]

$194,252
pledged of $150,000 goal
48
days to go

 

that didn't take long.

[ChadTower]

736 Backers   $283,927 pledged of $150,000 goal    48 days to go

[ChadTower]

Dude!  If you watch the vids it's just a fancy keyboard encoder.  Who is going to be the first to get one and make a MAME cab out of it?!   

[lilshawn]

Dude!  If you watch the vids it's just a fancy keyboard encoder.  Who is going to be the first to get one and make a MAME cab out of it?!   

no doubt. i'm not real keen on the peg slot. i think it would feel clunky while walking. 

maybe it's actually better than i'm imagining.

[fallacy]

I think the omni is awesome!  Granted it’s pretty simplistic… but using that combined with the new Kinect we are talking holodec type ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[lilshawn]

ive seen something like this only using rollers like 2 years ago.

[Gray_Area]

Looks like a bad week for SoCal. Maybe old boy was....occulted by his rift!  Maybe in New York during rush hour, but how can you not hear screaching and speeding and siren-y vehicles coming?

736 Backers   $283,927 pledged of $150,000 goal    48 days to go

Over double that, now. The shoes thing is interesting.....An extra piece of gear, I dunno.  I was thinking of other things than combat sims, and they are the only ones I've seen to point those used out. That's going to make it more appealing to other kinds of business.

[Howard_Casto]

It looks like the OR is getting a 1080p upgrade, so I'm going to have to take a lot of what I said back.  Then again I warned you guys not to buy the dev kits and sure enough, you got screwed on that one. 

Now they just need a reasonable price point for the device and multiple games that OFFICIALLY support the device. 

[ChadTower]

I'll never understand that idea.  How exactly does one get screwed if they paid a set price for something with detailed and accurate specs?  If they want the 1080p version later they can buy it when available.

[Howard_Casto]

Well it's just I doubt the new version is going to cost anymore.  So you paid just as much for an inferior version just to play some hacked in games on it.  Now if you are an actual developer that's one thing, but if you are some of these people that bought it because they just had to have it now.....

[fallacy]

Worth it if you are a fan, probably be over a year between the dev kit and the consumer version. How are you going to say it’s not worth it you are on the build your own arcade form; we all spend god knows how much building and repairing arcade and other related projects, half of which we never even use once we are done. Why because we are geeks and we enjoy it. Who would not want to be their on the ground up for something as cool as this?

[Howard_Casto]

Yes and until the consumer version comes out the only thing you can play on it are hack-jobs of old games.  Like I said. 

Like I've said several times on this thread... not that cool, the resolution is too low.  Now that's fixed but even then, still not THAT cool. 

Speak for yourself... I use everything I build. 

[ChadTower]

Well it's just I doubt the new version is going to cost anymore.  So you paid just as much for an inferior version just to play some hacked in games on it.  Now if you are an actual developer that's one thing, but if you are some of these people that bought it because they just had to have it now.....

And yet to be screwed you have to have lost something.  They got exactly what they paid for and they sound pretty happy with it. 

[lilshawn]

Well it's just I doubt the new version is going to cost anymore.  So you paid just as much for an inferior version just to play some hacked in games on it.  Now if you are an actual developer that's one thing, but if you are some of these people that bought it because they just had to have it now.....

And yet to be screwed you have to have lost something.  They got exactly what they paid for and they sound pretty happy with it.

i'd probably be happy either way. i'm seriously considering saving my nickels to buy one.

[Gray_Area]

And yet to be screwed you have to have lost something.  They got exactly what they paid for and they sound pretty happy with it. 

Well.....unless they were thinking/hoping more games and such would be available for it. That's where Howie's sentiment would come in.

[kahlid74]

Well it's just I doubt the new version is going to cost anymore.  So you paid just as much for an inferior version just to play some hacked in games on it.  Now if you are an actual developer that's one thing, but if you are some of these people that bought it because they just had to have it now.....

I'm not quite sure I would consider myself screwed.  I've been an avid kick starter participant since the site first launched.  I could certainly see people being upset about it but for me I paid money to see what they had and help them continue their forward movement towards something like this.

Further more I'm very happy with what I have.  The device is fantastic and feels like "I'm in the game".  It still makes me fell uncomfortable but I'm happy with it.

They are still going to release games that support the set I've got and I'm still going to be happy with this set for a while.  Will I buy the 1080P one?  Probably.

[ChadTower]

Well.....unless they were thinking/hoping more games and such would be available for it. That's where Howie's sentiment would come in.

True, but increasing the device's resolution does nothing to change this.

[RayB]

So, all that's needed is to add Kinect into the mix and you could run around and aim as if in the VR world.

Anyone else think of Sword Art Online when talking about OR?

[fallacy]

Yes of course Sword Art Online is pretty much the Matrix.

VR will be sweet once the resolution is so great that you can pretty much bring up menus in VR space and have it be clear enough to read at the same time wearing some type VR glove that will allow you to select and drag anything in VR space with perfect precision.

[lilshawn]

two words...

Minority Report

[fallacy]

That’s some serious capital, Oculus is not going anywhere.

In case you didn’t see the announcement, we have great news to share: we’ve raised $16 million in a Series A funding round co-led by Spark Capital and Matrix Partners, along with Founders Fund and Formation 8. This level of financial support opens incredible new doors for Oculus, and I’d like to provide a bit of context and backstory.

I have been working on virtual reality technology for years. Starting in a garage, prototyping new hardware, and collaborating with other virtual reality enthusiasts was a blast long before anyone thought VR was poised for a comeback. Hackers, makers, and enthusiasts live on the bleeding edge of tech not because it makes financial sense, but because it is a thrill that you cannot get anywhere else.

I got into VR because it seemed like the obvious path to the best possible gaming experience, but never expected it to take off so quickly. In less than a year, incredible game developers all over the world are building games designed explicitly for virtual reality, and people are beginning to understand that the tech is finally viable. Even with "next generation" consoles on the horizon, VR still came away with dozens of awards and accolades at E3.

We were fortunate enough to be able to pick investors who we thought would be a great fit. They really believe in our vision for the future of VR. These are people who have taken companies from startup to mass market many times, entrepreneurs who have a ton of meaningful experience building hardware and software consumer technology.

As I mentioned before, the funding opens up all sorts of doors for Oculus. It helps us hire the best and brightest minds in VR from around the world. It lets us experiment and prototype with more cutting-edge tech. And it allows us to build a badass, consumer VR gaming platform, the likes of which the world has never seen.

Virtual reality will be one of the most significant technologies of the 21st century. It has the potential to drastically alter the way we play, communicate, and learn. I think that VR can (and will) be as widely used as Facebook or Twitter, and the societal implications will be far greater!

I want to thank everyone for their support. None of this would be possible without you, the people who supported Oculus when it was nothing but a rough prototype and a dream of changing gaming forever!

-- Palmer

[lilshawn]

i guess that means we can start getting the new ones for $99 then?

[ChadTower]

In high tech R+D you can burn through $16mill in one fiscal quarter.  That's not nearly as much as it sounds.

[lilshawn]

In high tech R+D you can burn through $16mill in one fiscal quarter.  That's not nearly as much as it sounds.

most of the RnD leg work has been done already, it's just a matter of splashing some extras on it and call it good-to-go.

mind you, much of the research and development has been done for free by the creators to get it to this point, so i suppose they could start getting paid for their work now.

[ChadTower]

most of the RnD leg work has been done already, it's just a matter of splashing some extras on it and call it good-to-go.

mind you, much of the research and development has been done for free by the creators to get it to this point, so i suppose they could start getting paid for their work now.

Heh, no it hasn't.  They don't have even the first production model built yet.  And they don't have their SDK released yet.  It's all proof of concept early beta stuff.  That is a whole lot of R+D away from calling it good to go.  At this point they have something attractive enough to get themselves VC backing.  That's all they have.

[lilshawn]

most of the RnD leg work has been done already, it's just a matter of splashing some extras on it and call it good-to-go.

mind you, much of the research and development has been done for free by the creators to get it to this point, so i suppose they could start getting paid for their work now.

Heh, no it hasn't.  They don't have even the first production model built yet.  And they don't have their SDK released yet.  It's all proof of concept early beta stuff.  That is a whole lot of R+D away from calling it good to go.  At this point they have something attractive enough to get themselves VC backing.  That's all they have.

fair enough, it does still have a way to go... a little further from just a proof of concept though. i mean, they have a number of them built...they seem to work...they are listening to feedback and doing some tweaks and upgrades.

i guess we don't want a repeat of this again...

[ChadTower]

You just described a proof of concept model.  Build a small handful and test it out with a limited number of users.  They have yet to reach what would be described as an official beta product.  Beta will involve final specs on all of the major design elements.  The fact that they just announced a change in resolution, which is pretty damn major, shows that POC feedback must have told them the existing resolution wasn't good enough.  There's no way they would do something like that this far into the design unless they couldn't sell the existing design.  If it were a case of "well, this will sell, but we'd really like to see 1080p" then they'd move forward with the existing design and begin planning for an upgraded 2.0 version after that.

It's probably also not a coincedence that they finally got their VC at just about the same time they announced 1080p.  I'm guessing that the VC was predicated upon getting to that benchmark in the lab.

[fallacy]

You just described a proof of concept model.  Build a small handful and test it out with a limited number of users.  They have yet to reach what would be described as an official beta product.  Beta will involve final specs on all of the major design elements.  The fact that they just announced a change in resulation, which is pretty damn major, shows that POC feedback must have told them the existing resolution wasn't good enough.  There's no way they would do something like that this far into the design unless they couldn't sell the existing design.  If it were a case of "well, this will sell, but we'd really like to see 1080p" then they'd move forward with the existing design and begin planning for an upgraded 2.0 version after that.

It's probably also not a coincedence that they finally got their VC at just about the same time they announced 1080p.  I'm guessing that the VC was predicated upon getting to that benchmark in the lab.

You don’t know what you are talking about. It was always their plan to raise the resolution on the consumer version; they did not need consumer feedback for that.  They left the resolution low because the parts were readily available and they wanted to get the developer kit out in the hands of developers as quick as possible.

I don’t see why this is so hard to understand; VR is Two parts, %50 hardware, %50 software. Without both working exactly right VR does not work...period. Unfortunately Software cannot be developed until they have the hardware… hence the part about getting the hardware in the hands of software developers as quickly as possible. It is not going to help VR's case spending an extra 6 months to a year re-designing and re-ordering and manufacturing better parts to have a better first go Oculas Rift; ow wait! %50 of the puzzle is still missing!

Do you people not understand what a Developer kit means? It means it was made for the Software Developers …WTF

[ChadTower]

Do you people not understand what a Developer kit means? It means it was made for the Software Developers …WTF

A production SDK is the same hardware as the production consumer item plus any hardware extras that may facilitate the software development process plus a fully tested and released software development library.

None of what they have sent out is production ready.  Calling it production does not make it so.  What they have sent out is at best alpha hardware so certain partners can get a feel for the device.  It is not more than that.

[fallacy]

No dude I am pretty sure you calling it alpha hardware does not make it so.

[kahlid74]

So some CCP developers were in the early kickstarter round of Occulus and have now modded Eve as Eve-VR.  3v3 fighter game: http://www.tentonhammer.com/events/e3/2013/eve/eve-vr-virtual-reality-project

Sounds pretty awesome and has a novel idea for dealing with the motion sickness issues.  When you look down you see stationary legs, help the brain to adjust similar to being in a car.

I'm super excited to get my hands on it as my Occulus needs a good rocking again.

[Gray_Area]

  What they have sent out is at best alpha hardware so certain partners can get a feel for the device.  It is not more than that.

Wait.....I thought it went backwards.......Beta meant it was still being developed/might have bugs, and that Alpha was the mature product.....

[RayB]

Prototype - concept
Alpha - engine, core features, temp art
Beta - "complete", may still need polish, has bugs
Gold / Production - Sell it!

[ChadTower]

Exactly.  And if they're getting enough feedback about the resolution that they felt the need to make that drastic a change before going to Production... that was either Alpha or a failed Beta.

[Howard_Casto]

Which is perfectly alright, and acceptable... if you are a developer. But we have idgits on this thread that bought the alpha kit to play games on and/or suggested other people do so.  The same goes for kickstarter... people who are NOT developers paid for... a alpha dev kit. I mean seriously, that's not bleeding edge, that's buying a dull razor and attempting to sharpen it by rubbing it against your face!

I think this whole kickstarter thing is going to die real quick if this sort of thing keeps up.  Did you hear about Tim's Schaufer's game?  He only needed 300,000... he got 4 MILLION.  Now one year later he's ran out of money and is suggesting that he'll cut the game into two parts.. the last part that won't be released until well after 2015. So the dude gets way more money than he needed, and he still can't deliver on his promises. 

Maybe, just maybe the reason some of these projects couldn't get traditional funding is the fact that they never made good business sense in the first place. 

KS is fantastic for small, entry, level projects, but bigger stuff really needs traditional backing, not for the actual money, but the supervision and oversight that comes with it. 

[ChadTower]

Maybe, just maybe the reason some of these projects couldn't get traditional funding is the fact that they never made good business sense in the first place. 

KS is fantastic for small, entry, level projects, but bigger stuff really needs traditional backing, not for the actual money, but the supervision and oversight that comes with it.

I completely agree.  The biggest problem I have with Kickstarter now is that it's not a loan.  And the people funding don't expect ROI.  They're just donating to someone else's capital fund.  It is becoming the norm to give stuff like a $5 t shirt for a $50 donation.  $100 gets your name on a white board in the meeting room.  In marker.  There is nothing on the line for the recipients so they have no reason to be efficient with the money.  And if the end result is achieved, and let's face it that's not happening in most Kickstarters that get funded, the recipient has built a business or product on someone else's money but keeps all of the returns. 

The only Kickstarter I have donated more than a couple of bucks to is the PAPA Live Event Streaming project.  I know some of the folks involved personally and it's for the benefit of the hobby.  They were also smart enough to run several multi hour live broadcasts of a major event to prove the concept works before they asked for any money. 

[kahlid74]

Which is perfectly alright, and acceptable... if you are a developer. But we have idgits on this thread that bought the alpha kit to play games on and/or suggested other people do so.  The same goes for kickstarter... people who are NOT developers paid for... a alpha dev kit. I mean seriously, that's not bleeding edge, that's buying a dull razor and attempting to sharpen it by rubbing it against your face!

I think this whole kickstarter thing is going to die real quick if this sort of thing keeps up.  Did you hear about Tim's Schaufer's game?  He only needed 300,000... he got 4 MILLION.  Now one year later he's ran out of money and is suggesting that he'll cut the game into two parts.. the last part that won't be released until well after 2015. So the dude gets way more money than he needed, and he still can't deliver on his promises. 

Maybe, just maybe the reason some of these projects couldn't get traditional funding is the fact that they never made good business sense in the first place. 

KS is fantastic for small, entry, level projects, but bigger stuff really needs traditional backing, not for the actual money, but the supervision and oversight that comes with it.

I don't think I ever force fed people the Occulus but if I did check me at the door.  For me I've easily gotten my money's worth out of my Dev occulus and I'm by no means a developer.  The experience has been fun, exciting, new and different.  It's not a mainstream product yet but it's a great product as is right now.

I read the news about double fine recently and wasn't surprised.  The dude's trying to make a AAA game.  AAA games take quite a large investment and don't translate well to crowd-funding.  Take Star Citizen for example.  Chris Roberts wants to make a AAA game, so he realizes he needs 10+ million to do it.  He's now raised 13+ million through multiple different avenues.  Additionally he's made games in the real game industry and understands scope and project structure.

So I'm a big backer of many things on kickstarter.  I have been burned twice now of the 100+ projects I've backed.  I've got amazing stuff like the WakaWaka hand held solar power generator, the rift, comics, movies, electronics, and games galore.  KS isn't going to die tomorrow and the wealth of projects isn't drying up anytime soon.  Stuff like this happens.  You have to keep your eyes open and see it.  Tim never made a "real" game before this in an environment where structure was ever present.  Now take Wasteland2, Shadowrun Returns and Eternity.  All championed by people who have lived a life in the game industry and have lots of experience to guide them.  I've got hands on with Shadowrun Returns and it's pretty fantastic.  I've got inside looks on Wasteland2 and Eternity and both will rock.

So as long as we don't generalize, KS has issues and will continue to have them but man if you put your guard down and give people a chance, there's some pretty cool stuff you can get your hands on.

[lilshawn]

Feel like sharing? 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind trying one out.  If it's fun as I think it would be, I'd totally buy one.

In reference to kickstarter, as long as you look at what the person/company want to accomplish, have a solid idea/product, and you feel with the amount they have set they can accomplish it. then go for it.

if it looks like they are shooting low and seem to be just looking for extra money to pay for staff and advertising, pass.

if they are shooting WAY high and have a whack idea that doesn't look like it will fly, stay away.

you have to look past the buzz and look at reality... flying cars? sure, you can build it and it would be totally awesome, but it will take a few billion to get it FAA certified.

[kahlid74]

Feel like sharing? 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind trying one out.  If it's fun as I think it would be, I'd totally buy one.

In reference to kickstarter, as long as you look at what the person/company want to accomplish, have a solid idea/product, and you feel with the amount they have set they can accomplish it. then go for it.

if it looks like they are shooting low and seem to be just looking for extra money to pay for staff and advertising, pass.

if they are shooting WAY high and have a whack idea that doesn't look like it will fly, stay away.

you have to look past the buzz and look at reality... flying cars? sure, you can build it and it would be totally awesome, but it will take a few billion to get it FAA certified.

If you live near Milwaukee Wisconsin I wouldn't mind letting you play it but shipping it somewhere probably not.  At least not yet.

[lcmgadgets]

Wow, I just tuned in on this. It sounds awesome! I remember those old VR units at the fair--I found them totally immersive & awesome to play, but, yeah, expensive! I'll definitely b following this!

[lilshawn]

If you live near Milwaukee Wisconsin I wouldn't mind letting you play it but shipping it somewhere probably not.  At least not yet.

I'm in the land of the free* Maybe I'll have to save up my beans and buy one in the future.


*free healthcare. 

[RayB]

I completely agree.  The biggest problem I have with Kickstarter now is that it's not a loan.  And the people funding don't expect ROI.  They're just donating to someone else's capital fund.  It is becoming the norm to give stuff like a $5 t shirt for a $50 donation.  $100 gets your name on a white board in the meeting room.  In marker.  There is nothing on the line for the recipients so they have no reason to be efficient with the money.  And if the end result is achieved, and let's face it that's not happening in most Kickstarters that get funded, the recipient has built a business or product on someone else's money but keeps all of the returns. 

The only Kickstarter I have donated more than a couple of bucks to is the PAPA Live Event Streaming project.  I know some of the folks involved personally and it's for the benefit of the hobby.  They were also smart enough to run several multi hour live broadcasts of a major event to prove the concept works before they asked for any money.

And this is why Kickstarter can't legally operate in Canada. Our laws make it impossible without requiring disbursing shares to the "investors". It's meant to protect people from exactly what you're describing. But at the same time, it's stifling small upstarts who can't participate in this new funding model (well they can by partnering with an American business, but it's extra headache).

Ah well. In other (2 week old) news: John Carmack appointed CTO of Occulus Rift.

[fallacy]

    I completely agree.  The biggest problem I have with Kickstarter now is that it's not a loan.  And the people funding don't expect ROI.  They're just donating to someone else's capital fund.  It is becoming the norm to give stuff like a $5 t shirt for a $50 donation.  $100 gets your name on a white board in the meeting room.  In marker.  There is nothing on the line for the recipients so they have no reason to be efficient with the money.  And if the end result is achieved, and let's face it that's not happening in most Kickstarters that get funded, the recipient has built a business or product on someone else's money but keeps all of the returns.

    The only Kickstarter I have donated more than a couple of bucks to is the PAPA Live Event Streaming project.  I know some of the folks involved personally and it's for the benefit of the hobby.  They were also smart enough to run several multi hour live broadcasts of a major event to prove the concept works before they asked for any money.

And this is why Kickstarter can't legally operate in Canada. Our laws make it impossible without requiring disbursing shares to the "investors". It's meant to protect people from exactly what you're describing. But at the same time, it's stifling small upstarts who can't participate in this new funding model (well they can by partnering with an American business, but it's extra headache).

Ah well. In other (2 week old) news: John Carmack appointed CTO of Occulus Rift.

Don’t get what you people are complaining about. The people that donate to someone’s Kick Starter is because they believe in the product, they believe in the person selling it. If you don’t than don’t donate  . The government steels anywhere from 6 to 10 thousand in different taxes from you every year and this is what you have a problem with…

[kahlid74]

 And if the end result is achieved, and let's face it that's not happening in most Kickstarters that get funded, the recipient has built a business or product on someone else's money but keeps all of the returns. 
 

Out of 216 projects I have donated money too 214 of them have succeeded with me either having in my possession a game (software or board game), a music CD, a movie, an electronic gadget or whatever else I donated too.  Two have either failed to delivery something into my hands or disappeared.

So either I rock when it comes to picking projects to back or your assumption is wrong.

[opt2not]

We have a couple Oculus Rifts in the office here, and I gotta say, it's a pretty awesome product. Probably the best VR I've ever tried, and I remember when VR was "popular" back in the arcade days, with those behemoth VR pods. I'm kinda sad I missed out on the KS, but at the same time, who knows how far this thing is going to go and what kind of games/software is going to be released.

Anyway, a couple of my coworkers are submitting a game to the Oculus Rift Game Jam, and have been working on a Skiing game (created in Unity).

I think it's looking pretty good so far, for a very short development. Here's a short video:

[RayB]

And this is why Kickstarter can't legally operate in Canada. Our laws make it impossible without requiring disbursing shares to the "investors". It's meant to protect people from exactly what you're describing. But at the same time, it's stifling small upstarts who can't participate in this new funding model (well they can by partnering with an American business, but it's extra headache).

Ah well. In other (2 week old) news: John Carmack appointed CTO of Occulus Rift.

Don’t get what you people are complaining about. The people that donate to someone’s Kick Starter is because they believe in the product, they believe in the person selling it. If you don’t than don’t donate  . The government steels anywhere from 6 to 10 thousand in different taxes from you every year and this is what you have a problem with…

Did I say I had a problem with it? No, just stating my country's government does.

[CoryBee]

Just bought one the other day. Probably wont get to me before I hop across the pond for a few months....which makes me a sad panda

I suppose I can have it shipped by my brother when it arrives.

[kahlid74]

Just bought one the other day. Probably wont get to me before I hop across the pond for a few months....which makes me a sad panda

I suppose I can have it shipped by my brother when it arrives.

It's worth it and a lot of fun.  I'm used to it now.  I look forward to their next version of it and can't wait for my Omni to arrive too.

[ChadTower]

[fallacy]

Bad ass, reminds me of Myst.

[Alistair Keith]

I had a go on the Oculus Rift at the Eurogamer Expo, was pretty sweet. The line to see the demo was crazy long.