I seem to be missing the point of LCD flat-panels as MAME displays

[clickybuttons]

No matter what I've tried, LCDs look like crap, whether running MAME, eSPXe, nullDC, etc.... I know you can do the "HLSL" tweak in a mame config, but I tried that and, while it looks good... the colors don't pop as much as on a CRT or even a television.

Now, I didn't try an LCD TV... just an LCD monitor... I know with the TV you can set the sharpness and colors and everything else.

I am just wondering how you guys would config a system running a frontend, where the display is consistent among all Emulators (MAME, ePSXe, nullDC, ZSNES, etc). I can't seem to find anything that helps the consistency/look.

LCD is the way, though.. as far as WEIGHT and placement goes... ya know? Even a 22 or 23" widescreen looks awesome in a smaller (Williams-style) cabinet.

[rCadeGaming]

"I seem to be missing the point of LCD flat-panels as MAME displays."

You kind of hit on it already.

They're light.  They're easy to install in a cab.  They're easy to rotate etc.

The down is side is that, yes, the picture doesn't hold up at all to a properly set up CRT.  The other problem is that they lag; often quite a bit.  Most people don't even seem to properly take this into account and at least pick something with minimal lag.

MAME's HLSL effects are supposed to be pretty powerful, but getting that picture consistent with your other emulators is a crapshoot; and it's still not quite going to look like the real thing.

It depends where your priorities lie.

[MonMotha]

A big one is that you can actually readily buy an LCD new at reasonable price.  Now, getting a 4:3 one is harder, though possible, but if you're willing to put up with widescreen, you can walk down to Best Buy and pick one up today.  You can't do that with a CRT anymore.  2nd hard CRT monitors are still out there, but new ones are tough to find and usually kinda expensive when you do.

But if your goal is to have a "good arcade experience", pretty much any game made before 3-5 years ago is going to make assumptions that can really only be fulfilled by a CRT monitor (analog TV or arcade monitor).

[rCadeGaming]

Well, as I've said, you can get 15kHz CRT TV's that are outstanding for arcade stuff practically free on Craigslist right now.  People are getting rid of mint CRT's because they want a flat screen.  I don't blame them, I prefer new LCD's for TV and movies too.

I don't even know where you could find a new CRT TV, but I don't see the need.  It would probably upscale anyway.

 

But if your goal is to have a "good arcade experience", pretty much any game made before 3-5 years ago is going to make assumptions that can really only be fulfilled by a CRT monitor (analog TV or arcade monitor).

+1 on this.  I think "a good arcade experience" is the most important thing.  The actual quality of play should take precedence over secondary stuff like being easy to build and move around the house.  Just my opinion though.

[MonMotha]

There's a reason I have 3 new-in-box arcade monitors in my basement + another used one that I repaired with a near perfect tube.   I figure I won't be able to get them for much longer.  I'm about to start scrapping TVs and putting spare boardsets (from tubes with so much burn as to be junk) on them.

[rCadeGaming]

Definitely.  I don't have the money to stockpile arcade monitors, but I have a lot of TV's in the garage.

[brad808]

The problem with crts is simple. They are old and outdated. When an lcd breaks you chuck it in the bin and go buy another one for $100 brand new at the store 2 minutes away. When the crt breaks you spend $100 shipping in a component that took you a week to source from whatever country has it and 10 hours trying to trouble shoot and repair it. They are heavy as hell, I'm 25 years old with the back of an 80 year old from lifting those stupid things around my house and stairs. 33" showcase cabs weight like 2 tons, only slight hyperbole.

I don't know what is the deal with arcade crts but I've never once seen one without problems. Take the 15 year old crt tv and it looks great, colours are awesome, geometry is awesome, no bleed, nice and clear. Take the 3 year old crt and the geometry is all shifted, needs a cap kit, flyback squeals like a baby pig, corners are all slightly off. I don't know if it's because the remote boards are always so accessible that everyone feels the need to dink with them until the monitors go crazy or what.

That being said I have all crts in my cabinets because I aint no sucker  I just finished fixing one last week so I'm still a little angry at them  . Anytime I load up a retro game on my lcd computer monitor I puke a little on the keyboard.

[rCadeGaming]

Haha, very surprised by the end of your post.  So you are on our side.

I'm not going to say anything bad about arcade monitors because I don't have extensive experience with them.  I have worked for several years at an AV/Home Theater Service/Shop that does TV repair, and I can say that a good CRT TV has at least 15 to 25 years of normal service life.

I hope you're exaggerating the unreliability of arcade monitors somewhat.  While I think my TV setup can rival the best arcade monitors in 15kHz, I haven't necessarily ruled out a Tri-Sync.

Also, I wouldn't say that the availability of LCD's is so much better than CRT TV's.  Sure you can buy LCD's everywhere, but it's not so simple to buy one that's not a laggy piece of crap, and the time has never been better to get great used CRT TV's practically free (I've gotten several that actually were free).

I think we're in agreement that regardless of whatever problems CRT's may have, an LCD is not an acceptable substitute.

[brad808]

I hope you're exaggerating the unreliability of arcade monitors somewhat. 

Yea I wouldn't read into what I said too deeply. Like I said I had problems with one of my monitors last week so I'm still a little a little irritated with them... It's a love-hate relationship.

[repetto74]

One month ago I put my hands on which I believe is the last CRT arcade monitor I will take care of it thrust me, this things has to run in my cab as long as possible.
There is no alternative to CRT image quality......

[Rickn]

Just a few comments:
We still have some brand new (in fact not yet built) 27" Tri-res, 32" Standard res (both are curved tubes) as well as 39" tr-res all arcade CRT monitors. The freight costs on a single monitor drives the price way-up so if you happen to live in Ontario, Canada and can do a pick-up!!!

As far as LCD's goes, we have transitioned to LCD's and have made sure to select LCD panels with higher bightness, contrast and viewing angles. We offer them with custom metal bezels to fit most cabinets. Very simple installation, the LCD is fastened to the Bezel and the whole assembly fits into the slots and on the rails the glass does.

As I said, better brightness contrast and viewing angles. You can see them all the way across our 5,000 square foot building at almost any angle and yes he colors jump out.

These are indistrial open freme LCD's not your cheap $200 retail stuff. But if you are serious about what you want the price is worth it.

Always happy to help!

Rick Nieman
President Nieman Video Displays
Rick@Niemandisplays.com

[rCadeGaming]

Rick, what about the input lag on those LCD's?  That should be just as important as the other qualities you mentioned.

A game that looks pretty but isn't really playable isn't much use; and it can't be as pretty as a CRT for retro games anyway.

I hear that industrial screens should lack the processing features that cause lag, can you confirm this?

[mcseforsale]

LCDs are free.

(at least for me).

AJ