Just removed the clock capacitor from my xbox

[danny_galaga]

Edit: made a little web page here:

http://dannygalaga.com/xbox.html

A friend warned me maybe a year ago that I should remove the clock capacitor from my xbox if it hadn't already been done. The reason you should check and remover the capacitor is that they are an aerogel type, and have practically a 100% chance of leaking and causing damage to the motherboard, and possible failure of the machine. None of the other capacitors on the motherboard have this problem. Not one to drag my feet, I finally did it today

I pulled it apart using this guide:

http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/crack_open_that_xbox.htm

(link fixed  )

There were only ten screws in my xbox, so relax if like me, you kept recounting hoping it would add up to eleven! My xbox was working when I pulled it apart. Sure enough, that capacitor had been leaking. The acids (or alkalines, some nasty ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- anyway!) was starting to cause damage. I removed the offending capacitor, and proceeded to clean up the mess with cotton tips and a little fresh water. Then went over it again with cotton tips and methylated spirits. But wait a minute, surely there was a surface mount component just there! Crap, I had a look at the cotton tips, and found it stuck on the end! The crap had corroded the terminals and it was just hanging on by a few molecules of matter. ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, is it going to work again? I gambled that it was something to do with the capacitor charging circuit and so it was now as superfluous as the capacitor itself. Put it back together. Works (",) . Just as well, my eyes aren't what they used to be (see pics)

Note, from what I can tell, the location of the surface mount component is called Q7G2. The component itself seems to have written on it 1AM and then a wishbone like symbol similar to the > symbol. It's at least 3 legs and if it's not a transistor I guess it's a simple IC, probably to do with charging the capacitor, which is why I hoped the xbox would still work regardless.

[Generic Eric]

Link to guide doesn't work.

[Red]

Why?

[crashwg]

So you just remove it, not replace it?  I've got at least 5 XBOXes in the house, 3 that are used on a regular basis...

[rCadeGaming]

Yeah the link doesn't work.  Why is this necessary?

[Nephasth]

http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/crack_open_that_xbox.htm

[rCadeGaming]

That doesn't explain anything about the clock capacitor though.  Did a search, and apparently it will eventually blow like most caps, but what this particular can leak out can eat your motherboard, or cause a short and fry it.  I need to open my Xbox...

[Nephasth]

He never said the link explained this particular cap, just that he used to help him pull apart his xbox...

[rCadeGaming]

Ah, you just completed his link... 

[danny_galaga]

He never said the link explained this particular cap, just that he used to help him pull apart his xbox...

Zachary (",)

Someone somewhere did a bit of an analysis of what it's about. Seems MS wanted to save some money by incorporating the clock circuit into another IC. Only that IC uses a lot more power than a clock IC would. So in the end they had to use a super duper type of capacitor (aero gel or summink?) to keep the clock running for a few hours if unplugged. He calculated if you had a CR3032 watch battery in the xbox instead, like everyone else, it would go flat in about 6o days. Edit: here

And yes, don't bother replacing it. If you do, you'd be better off remote mounting it somewhere safe (maybe in a pill container?). But why bother? Dunno about you, but I tend to leave my old consoles unplugged when not in use...

[danny_galaga]

So you just remove it, not replace it?  I've got at least 5 XBOXes in the house, 3 that are used on a regular basis...

I'd get on to it. As far as I'm aware, these caps have a 100% failure rate 

[opt2not]

sharpfolk has a post on the coinops board regarding this:
http://coinopsproject.freeforums.org/replace-or-remove-powerstor-aerogel-capacitor-t1185.html

But from what I've read everywhere, this cap is used in saving the date/time setting when the xbox is unplugged. It's best to just remove it, rather than replacing, since it'll just fail again. This is a fault in the xbox's design.
Not sure what other games rely on the time and date setting, but for those of us that us Coinops, it should still work if you use the launcher, which I assume bypasses the time/date check.

That cap can do some serious damage. Removing it completely should keep your xbox healthy for a long time.

[Samstag]

When I was modding xboxes I used to replace those with supercaps that would hold the date for a month or more.  I've never had one of those fail.

But probably any cap from a decent electronics distributor will last longer than the garbage they used originally.

[sharpfork]

sharpfolk has a post on the coinops board regarding this:
http://coinopsproject.freeforums.org/replace-or-remove-powerstor-aerogel-capacitor-t1185.html

I'm pulling them at this point and making sure that I use newer bios (hardmod) that sets an arbitrary date.  I'm not sure what happens if you pull it off on an umodded or softmodded setup.
danny_galaga - how is the removal + not replace working on your setup?

[floriske.nl]

Hmm, good thing I've found this topic. Would hate one of my xboxes dying on me

Problem is that one of my boxes is a 1.6 (hardmod with duo-x2) and I read somewhere that it can't be simply removed on these boxes but has to be replaced, is that correct?

[sharpfork]

Problem is that one of my boxes is a 1.6 (hardmod with duo-x2) and I read somewhere that it can't be simply removed on these boxes but has to be replaced, is that correct?

I've read that as well but haven't tested it.  Some random guy on the interwebs said it in this thread so it must be true: 
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8879

If it does need to be replaced, the replacement part isn't very expensive:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=283-2776-ND

[danny_galaga]

Mine is modded, but I don't know anything about these things, but here's a pic. Obviously quite a fancy mod, nicely done. Whatever this mod is, and whatever version it is (I haven't the faintest) it is still working (",)

In any case, just try it, and if it doesn't boot up or whatever the problem is you are concerned about, THEN replace the cap. And if it's the same type of cap (which is going to leak again) I wouldn't put it on the motherboard if I were you  . Extend with some wires, and put that poxy thing in a pill container or summink...

By the way, to get your bearings, the cap in question is in the bottom left corner in this pic. All the pics on the net (including mine I just realised!) has it close up, but it's not so obvious once you open it up. It's the second smallest in that group of three.

edit: made a little web page here:

http://dannygalaga.com/xbox.html

[danny_galaga]

Just an update. From what I can tell, it seems V 1.6 doesn't have the same problem. Although if I had a V 1.6 I'd still be having a look, just to be sure...

I've also found (on the net) regards softmodding, a problem that could be had in the past was called 'clockloop' where it it would just try and reboot over and over again. But the most recent softmod versions fix this problem. A bit of info here http://home.comcast.net/~admiral_powerslave/softmod.html   Google around to find more. As I said before, at worst (for some reason your xbox just HAS to have the clock cap there) you will just have to replace the cap with another if it is leaking. And I would suggest remotely mounting it off the mobo in that case...

[Ginsu Victim]

I have a v1.6 and haven't had the problem.

[crashwg]

I have a v1.6 and haven't had the problem.

I'm not sure that not having the problem yet is any indication that it's not a potential problem.  I've got 3 xboxes that are used daily.  I believe they're 1.1, 1.2 & 1.4, but don't quote me on that.  Not a one of them has shown signs of a popped cap.  I really should get around to fixing them...

[retrostark]

what exactly does it do? not actually sure.

[danny_galaga]

I have a v1.6 and haven't had the problem.

As Crashwg says, that doesn't tell you if the cap is leaking or not. My xbox was working just fine when I opened it up, but as you can see from the pics, it was leaking all right! That's the danger, it's going to keep working while the cap is leaking until by chance the alkalines (or acids? I can never remember) corrodes something vital on the motherboard.

I'm being a bit evangelical about it because I've only in the last couple of years come to appreciate the xbox, having never owned one before, and this problem is a time bomb. It's going to turn a whole bunch of xboxes into junk. It makes me sad to think of the loss...

Retrostark if you are asking what the capacitor originally does, it holds the time for a few hours if your xbox is unplugged. Poor design, since a machine like the Dreamcast holds the time for YEARS if unplugged. If you are asking what is the problem it is causing now, the capacitor leaks all over the place and corrodes your motherboard.

[ark_ader]

While we are on the subject of Xbox Mother board repairs, where can I get one of these?





IT looks simple enough to make but the site shop is closed.   

It would be a nice idea to use an ATX PSU instead.

[johnm]

DIY job ?
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=472386

[opt2not]

negro bump.

I just finished repairing my loose power connector on my xbox, and figured I'd take a look at the clock cap.  As it turns out, I have a 1.2 version xbox, which doesn't have this capacitor. I checked all over, and couldn't find the same one, concurrently I didn't see any leaking or damage whatsoever. All the caps in that area are electrolytic ones, that look undamaged (that is not saying they won't ever dry out, but for now they look good).
Aside from the loose power connector, my xbox is in amazing shape for being this old.

The way I found out that I have a 1.2, is the Phillips drive in there, plus the motherboard has an ATX connection and uses the Connexant Video Encoder.  According to this guide:  http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/determine_version_of_xbox.htm

[pbj]

negro bump.

 

SOLID

[jammin0]

just popped one of these out of a 1.0 xbox.  Green and gooey underneath.  It's soft modded with Ndure 3.1.  Everything is working still.  Hopefully it will last a little longer now.

Thanks for the thread as I had never heard of this and it isn't really visible without removing the capacitor.

[jammin0]

OK, just did my second one and thought I would post this picture in case there's anyone too afraid to open their mint condition xbox.  This xbox got the royal treatment with resoldered power connector and new thermal grease under the heatsinks but I started with removing the bad boy pictured.  You can tell that this xbox was well used version 1.0 but it seems like they are all prone to failure that have this particular capacitor.

[mann0mann]

I've softmodded all my xbox using this software, Softmod Installer Deluxe -

http://www.installerdeluxe.com/index.php?title=Softmod_Installer_Deluxe

Does anyone know if you can remove the cap and have no issues with this softmod?  I've looked over all of their documentation and done some searches, but nothing I could find that was a real answer?

[jammin0]

I would guess that you'll be fine.  You could always solder in a replacement but I don't think it is necessary.  did you use the newest version of softmod installer?

[danny_galaga]

OK, just did my second one and thought I would post this picture in case there's anyone too afraid to open their mint condition xbox.  This xbox got the royal treatment with resoldered power connector and new thermal grease under the heatsinks but I started with removing the bad boy pictured.  You can tell that this xbox was well used version 1.0 but it seems like they are all prone to failure that have this particular capacitor.

Top work! That looked pretty dire!

Mannomann, I found some info here to put on my little webpage about this problem:  http://home.comcast.net/%7Eadmiral_powerslave/softmod.html

Mine isn't softmodded so it wasn't a concern to me but basically if you use a newer softmod that hard sets the time on bootup you should be fine. Or as jammin0 points out, you could always replace the cap with a new one to maintain the status quo, although from what I understand, any problem with a softmod will occur whether you have a missing cap, or just a flat cap because the power was off for a few hours. If you replace the cap, I would strongly suggest extending wires and mounting it remotely and maybe in a pill container or similar.