KADE Encoder and Kick Starter Project

[opt2not]

Hey I noticed the Kade site says there's support for Arcade PCB's and Pinball? Are you talking about real hardware or just all emulation?

Does this device have discrete signal outputs for connecting to real hardware?

This would be awesome for making superguns that support not only consoles, but actual PCB's as well.

There's a guy on shmups by the name of undamned that figured out how to make a CPS2 supergun that supports those Madcatz TE sticks via USB-->discrete signal conversion.

Is connecting to real hardware possible with KADE?

[opt2not]

Tough question?

[degenatrons]

Hey I noticed the Kade site says there's support for Arcade PCB's and Pinball? Are you talking about real hardware or just all emulation?

Does this device have discrete signal outputs for connecting to real hardware?

This would be awesome for making superguns that support not only consoles, but actual PCB's as well.

There's a guy on shmups by the name of undamned that figured out how to make a CPS2 supergun that supports those Madcatz TE sticks via USB-->discrete signal conversion.

Is connecting to real hardware possible with KADE?

These devices are capable of connecting to real hardware yes,  but we would need to understand the requirement and make a firmware for it.  Can you provide examples/links of what features you'd like to see supported.  It sounds pretty interesting so you've got my attention.

We've developed firmwares to do signal conversion from most retro gamepads to consoles and USB.   There are other examples of onboard signal conversion too for e.g. PS/2 trackball input to Gamepad X/Y movement.
We've picked up some newer IC's recently and they have some great potential.
Anyway,  let me know more about hardware and what you're trying to do and we will see if we can help.

Jon

 

[opt2not]

Hey I noticed the Kade site says there's support for Arcade PCB's and Pinball? Are you talking about real hardware or just all emulation?

Does this device have discrete signal outputs for connecting to real hardware?

This would be awesome for making superguns that support not only consoles, but actual PCB's as well.

There's a guy on shmups by the name of undamned that figured out how to make a CPS2 supergun that supports those Madcatz TE sticks via USB-->discrete signal conversion.

Is connecting to real hardware possible with KADE?

These devices are capable of connecting to real hardware yes,  but we would need to understand the requirement and make a firmware for it.  Can you provide examples/links of what features you'd like to see supported.  It sounds pretty interesting so you've got my attention.

We've developed firmwares to do signal conversion from most retro gamepads to consoles and USB.   There are other examples of onboard signal conversion too for e.g. PS/2 trackball input to Gamepad X/Y movement.
We've picked up some newer IC's recently and they have some great potential.
Anyway,  let me know more about hardware and what you're trying to do and we will see if we can help.

Jon

Hey Jon, I'm getting ideas to make a super"duper"gun to connect older low-res consoles and arcade PCB's to modern TV's. The supergun will have a video upscaler and audio amp, but I also want to be able to connect my arcade sticks to the supergun via USB, and have it pass-though input signals to the consoles/PCB's.

I would want to install the KADE into my 2 arcade sticks, and have it output via USB. That way I can still use my sticks on modern consoles, but also connect them to the supergun for older hardware.
If there is a PCB connected, having the ability to pass the discrete switch-signals through USB to the board, or if there is a console, passing the console controller outputs as well.

Does that make any sense?

My initial plan was to get cthulhu boards for my sticks, because they support the most retro consoles right now, then wire-up a switch (relay probably) to bypass the cthulhu board and have the button signals output to a separate connector for my supergun. But that's clunky and not very elegant. Let alone a hassle to wire up.
I'm hoping for one output connector, to rule  them all...

[opt2not]

Any ideas?
I'd like to make a decision on what to order soon.

[sharpfork]

Can you list out the inputs and outputs.
Can you clarify this a bit:
If there is a PCB connected, having the ability to pass the "discrete switch-signals through USB to the board, or if there is a console, passing the console controller outputs as well"

You want original signals passed via USB to the original consoles?

Thanks

[opt2not]

Yes, button presses passed from these boards to original arcade boards.

The goal is to have an arcade stick that works for new and old consoles, AND arcade PCB's. Using one connector.

undamned's supergun is slightly different, where you can plug in any madcatz fight stick into his CPS supergun, and it converts the button presses to discrete button signals needed.
I'm assuming he's found a way of converting those xbox/PC/PS3 protocols to discrete logic, but I'm no EE so your guess is as good as mine.

I've asked craftymech if he'd be interested in developing something like this, as it would be really awesome for supergun builders, but he's got his hands full with adapters and scan line generators.

[CraftyMech]

I do have my hands full, but I'd definitely be interested in figuring out how to interface a Jamma harness -> KADE ->Bluetooth iCade arcade stick. The goal would be to use an iCade stick on my Jamma test bench over Bluetooth. So basically what opt2not is asking about, but with the extra wrinkle of Bluetooth as well

[Le Chuck]

Anybody working on a using the analog KADE with PS4 yet?  I'd like my special needs controller to be able to do both if possible.  Thanks!

[Thestoney]

Firstly looks fantastic and a credit to the 3 of you , I am based in England and looking to purchase a couple of these Kades . The website is down and I'm on a tight timeline ( as a gift to friend ) anyone know of any other English seller ?
Thanks

[sharpfork]

I think Jon is out of a part at the moment.  PM him and I'm sure we can work something out.

[PL1]

One minor correction -- you need five posts on BYOAC to send PMs so you may need to e-mail Jon instead.

This thread was posted on the KADE forums yesterday by someone asking the same question and includes Jon's reply on what options he currently has available.


Scott

[Thestoney]

Thanks for the reply chaps

[degenatrons]

Firstly looks fantastic and a credit to the 3 of you , I am based in England and looking to purchase a couple of these Kades . The website is down and I'm on a tight timeline ( as a gift to friend ) anyone know of any other English seller ?
Thanks

Store is open again at http://emukade.com/
I'm based in UK and can ship out real quick if you're still looking to grab a couple.

[yotsuya]

Finally decided to take the plunge and try one of these out for a project I'm building for my sister. Looking forward to messing with this. Thanks, guys! 

[pbj]

I didn't bother with the KADE PCBs, but I did pick up some Minimus AVRs and play around with the software.  I've been very pleased and impressed, particularly for the $10ish I've got into each player.



Here's a few constructive comments and I hope they're taken in the spirit of trying to help.

The website is very difficult to navigate and I never had a clear explanation of what a KADE was until I communicated with Sharpfork directly.  Being unfamiliar with the Minimus, I thought they had designed those as well.  It feels the remnants of their old crowd sourcing project and it's never been updated to a proper, "here's what we're selling and here's what it can do" site.  When I realized their efforts were just a software package and a dongle to plug into the Minimus, I felt a little... unintentionally mislead?  Not all of your customers are informed.

The software and associate firmwares are buried in a Quick Start guide.  That really needs to be brought to the front.

Everything associated with KADE refers to their custom labels for the Minimus inputs, and does not use the same naming standards as the Minimus.  They have an explanation of the differences buried on their forum.  Something else that should be prominent on the website.  I made up my own graphic with the KADE labels, Minimus labels, and corresponding Xbox inputs.  I'll slap that at the bottom here.

Regarding the Xbox functionality, I think they should default it so that everything is identical when the inputs are shifted, except that L stick instead of D-pad is emulated.  That little tweak makes many more games immediately playable.

Opt2not's request is freaking ridiculous and he can accomplish that with a physical switch.    

[sharpfork]

I didn't bother with the KADE PCBs, but I did pick up some Minimus AVRs and play around with the software.  I've been very pleased and impressed, particularly for the $10ish I've got into each player.

If you haven't noticed, this it the only KADE thread on this forum.  We don't even currently have a post in the buy/sell/trade forum and we are not out actively promoting KADE.  The only advertising we have done has been the kickstarter itself and word of mouth.  KADE is a project done out of love and support for the hobby and filling voids left by the current vendors. 

As you personally know, we'll help folks buy an AVR from somewhere else and put the KADE software on for free.  Alternatively, folks can support our research into new hardware and software by buying a DIY kit to solder themselves or buy one Jon, Bruno, or I personally soldered by hand.  The couple of bucks we make has gone into some cool stuff that will be coming out when our family and day jobs give us space.

The software has been ported to a variety of AVR boards, including the minimus, and the software has been extended to handle specific requests like rotary and analog.  I'm not sure what led you to feel "unintentionally mislead" but that is the absolutely last thing we intended.  I have a long list of feedback from PL1 I need to work though and will take the feedback you and others have provided as we plan for the next generation of open KADE hardware and software.  We will also be considering the recent tension between full time vendors and other open projects as we move forward.

[yotsuya]

Just got my shipping notice. Thanks, sharpfork! Can't wait to mess with it.

[TheOne]

I love the software.  I have used it on my last three games that I have built.  Just curious, besides the AVR board, what other boards has it been ported to?

[PL1]

The website is very difficult to navigate

The banner at the top of each page at kadevice.com seems pretty easy to navigate IMHO.   

The Forums are structured a little bit tricky with the "output to" and "input from" sections, if that's what you meant.

I never had a clear explanation of what a KADE was until I communicated with Sharpfork directly.

I agree that the "What is KADE" part of the "About KADE" page could use a little clarification.  How's this?

KADE is a ground breaking combination of hardware, firmware and software which comes together in one neat package for the ultimate encoder experience.

KADE connects arcade controls like joysticks and pushbuttons to a computer or game console* via USB -- it converts joystick/button presses into your choice of keystrokes or gamepad commands.

KADE is compatible with many computers and consoles and support for other systems is constantly being worked on.

    *PS1 and PS2 require an adapter cable.

The software and associate firmwares are buried in a Quick Start guide.  That really needs to be brought to the front.

You're talking about the Quick Start guide that you can access directly from the kadevice.com banner or from the "Help" menu in the Loader program?   

1. Download the windows based KADE Loader software here.

2. Run the setup.exe program to start the setup wizard and follow the onscreen instuctions.
We recommend that you accept all of the default installation locations.

It's hard to get less buried than steps 1 and 2.   

Everything associated with KADE refers to their custom labels for the Minimus inputs, and does not use the same naming standards as the Minimus.  They have an explanation of the differences buried on their forum.

The Minimus/KADE pinout labels are also in Loader under Help - Instructions -- just click on "Minimus AVR Pin Reference" (third link at the top of the Instructions)
---------
One other suggestion for the KADE team:

Please add the 16k (at90usb162) and 32k (atmega32u2) Minimus AVRs to the list of compatible hardware at the top of the Quick Start guide page.

Without that clarification, users working wth a plain AVR might not realize that the guide works for their configuration, too.


Scott

[pbj]

Please don't take my remarks as idle criticism.  You guys have done something really cool with these things and I'm simply trying to help.

Now to get windows 8 to recognize a minimus emulating an Xbox controller....

 

[PL1]

Please don't take my remarks as idle criticism.  You guys have done something really cool with these things and I'm simply trying to help.

Your post wasn't taken as criticism, James, even if a few parts of my reply had a slight RTFM vibe.   

Honest feedback from fresh eyes is a great way to weed out the "inside baseball" shorthand that the dev team and beta testers have developed over the last few years.

I was just pointing folks toward the location of the info you mentioned and putting forward suggestions to the team to help clarify the product description/user guide for newcomers.

In your opinion, would my suggested changes ("What is KADE" update and the last two lines of the post) clarify matters enough for new customers, or is there more you'd like to see?


Scott

[PL1]

I love the software.  I have used it on my last three games that I have built.  Just curious, besides the AVR board, what other boards has it been ported to?

In addition to the boards in the pulldown menu in the KADE Loader program, you can edit and compile the source code for other boards and load the resulting firmwares to the board using FLIP.

For some boards all you need to do is change one line, for others you may need to change port information.   
(Jon walked me through the one-line change to test the KADESTICK boards -- it was easier than expected)

Is there a specific board and firmware combination that you want to use? (i.e. ATmega32U4 with USB/HID Gamepad)

On the subject of porting, one exciting development with the firmware is that davexunit on the KADE Forums has contributed code changes that allow you to compile/load firmwares using Linux systems.    (Related thread here)


Scott

[yotsuya]

My KADE miniArcade showed up today. Some initial thoughts -

The add-on for the Minimus is solidly put together, soldered expertly. It was worth the extra cost to get a preassembled one as opposed to doing it myself. Programming the AVR using the software was super-easy. Popped it in, chose the MAME setup, hit program, and it worked just fine.

I picked up a Minimus AVR to mess with. I have a project I did a keyboard hack on, but I want to add some inputs. I'm going to see how it works out with the KADE software. I enjoy hacking keyboards, but this is an attractive, time-saving option. 

[pbj]

Don't touch the Ground and 5V lines.  Adios trace.   

Anyway, this is complete pie in the sky stuff here, but I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has figured this out.  Ideally, with my turtle box, I'd like to be able to unplug the USB connectors from my Xbox and jam a couple into my Windows 8 laptop without reprogramming them.  I had thought this would be very straight forward, but so far no dice.

I'm using this software package:

http://vba-m.com/forum/Thread-xbcd-0-2-7-release-info-updates-will-be-posted-here

I downloaded the driver development kit and did the whole inf2cat thing, and I've disabled all the driver signing requirements, and I can plug in the Minimus and everything is detected and installs.  Unfortunately, that's as far as it gets.  I've messed around with the Xbox360 controller emulator, joy2key, and MAME and cannot get a response out of any of them.  The closest I get is the UI goes into constant auto scroll in MAME if I unplug the Minimus.  Obviously -something- is being broadcast.

I did all of the same steps on a Windows 7 desktop and have the exact same results.

Minimums -> KADE XBox Firmware -> Back to a PC

Come on.  Someone can do this.

 

[rablack97]

I may be totally off on what your trying to do, but ask Jon what he did different with this option.  This allows the xbox firmware to work with xbcd for testing.

Go to advanced and enable pc testing for firmwares, you will see test show up next to xbox, make your changes and the upload firmware to the minimus.

[sharpfork]

soldered expertly.

Thanks yotsuya!  I practiced soldering a bunch before making the Kickstarter rewards.  At this point, I genuinely enjoy the assembly process.


The minimus you got from me with the board and the one you bought elsewhere (Like PBJ did) will work exactly the same way with the loader software.  If you are on a budget need a tiny encoder, or just like to tinker, the minimus alone is a great option.

PBJ- RBlack is right, Degenatron added functionality in the loader to work around some issue in the PC xBox driver that kept the KADE from showing up correctly in original xBox mode.

[pbj]

Guess who woke up an hour early to test that out?   

I have to say, I'm impressed.  The mapping is slightly weird but I blame my ignorance of XBCD settings for that.  I was able to get stuff like MAME, Jamestown, and In the Groove working without any issues.  This will do nicely for those rare occasions I want to shove a laptop in my pedestal and play something PC-only.

 

[yotsuya]

The minimus you got from me with the board and the one you bought elsewhere (Like PBJ did) will work exactly the same way with the loader software.  If you are on a budget need a tiny encoder, or just like to tinker, the minimus alone is a great option.

The more I think about it, the more I realize how great it is that we have so many specific options. I'm going to use the Minimus for a situation where I only need a couple of keystrokes. I'll use the KAKE miniArcade on my sister's 1 player, 2 button project. If I needed that but with LEDs, I'd use the GP+LED-Wiz. If I were going 2 player, I'd go with the iPac. If I wanted to do 2 players with LEDs, I could look at the Howler. It's nice to have so many different options to choose from.

The bare Minimus should be coming today, so I'll program it with the KADE loader and then solder on some wires for what I need. So exciting!

[PL1]

For anyone working with a plain Minimus, here is a list of the associated and alternate parts, including .1" pin headers and 4-wire prefab harnesses from Paradise that work great.   



Now if Kevin would just quit "slacking" and upload the list to Github . . .    jk


Scott

[yotsuya]

I'm not authorized to download your attachment, Scott.

[yotsuya]

Just signed up for the KADE board. Looking forward to learning more about this stuff. 

[PL1]

Redirected list link to the related post and attached the file above.


Scott

[yotsuya]

Ok, I had a chance to play with the Minimus and the KADE loader. I programmed it to function as a standard Keyboard controller with settings for MAME. I soldered wires to the pinouts I needed, used the loader to verify that everything worked, and then put QDs on those ends. I opened up my Star Wars, disconnected the keyboard hack I did, and tweaked the wiring to connect to the AVR. I added wiring for an escape button and a select button, finished installation, and booted up my game.

I have the FE setup to boot into SW. I pressed the ESC button on the SW coin door panel I reproed, and the FE exited SW abd allowed, me to switch to Empire Strikes Back. I pressed the select button, and ESB loaded. Success!!!

I'm sold. I'm a believer. In fact, I went out and picked up another Minimus just to have one on hand. The KADE firmware is an excellent community project. While I had fun hacking keyboards, I'll never do another one again. ;-)

[degenatrons]

Ok, I had a chance to play with the Minimus and the KADE loader. I programmed it to function as a standard Keyboard controller with settings for MAME. I soldered wires to the pinouts I needed, used the loader to verify that everything worked, and then put QDs on those ends. I opened up my Star Wars, disconnected the keyboard hack I did, and tweaked the wiring to connect to the AVR. I added wiring for an escape button and a select button, finished installation, and booted up my game.

I have the FE setup to boot into SW. I pressed the ESC button on the SW coin door panel I reproed, and the FE exited SW abd allowed, me to switch to Empire Strikes Back. I pressed the select button, and ESB loaded. Success!!!

I'm sold. I'm a believer. In fact, I went out and picked up another Minimus just to have one on hand. The KADE firmware is an excellent community project. While I had fun hacking keyboards, I'll never do another one again. ;-)

Thanks for the story Yotsuya.  I'm glad that Minimus + KADE firmware has done the job.   

[sharpfork]

I'm sold. I'm a believer. In fact, I went out and picked up another Minimus just to have one on hand. The KADE firmware is an excellent community project. While I had fun hacking keyboards, I'll never do another one again. ;-)

I'm the same way with game pad hacks, never again.

[CraftyMech]

I'm sold. I'm a believer. In fact, I went out and picked up another Minimus just to have one on hand. The KADE firmware is an excellent community project. While I had fun hacking keyboards, I'll never do another one again. ;-)

I'm the same way with game pad hacks, never again.

I did a few pad hacks with the 360 and I'm definitely not interested in doing that again! So I'm looking to use the KADE to get a Dreamcast (and possibly SNES) setup working in a cab project I want to build. 

[Slippyblade]

I love my Kade.  I bought the DIY kit.  Soldered it up (I enjoy soldering), programmed it with no problems and it works like a charm.  I'm definitely going to use it again in the future.

Can the 16k Minimus still be bought though?  Just curious.

[yotsuya]

I've been getting mine off Amazon. If there is a shortage, I might need to hoard.

Then again, depending on the project, I might just buy a full KADE miniArcade as well.

[PL1]

No vendors that I know of currently carry the 16k model.   

The Amazon AVR seller Yotsuya mentioned (probably this one) is likely selling the same 32k model available through several other vendors.

There are also some Leonardo Pro Micro clones on e-bay (shipped from HK for <$9 IIRC) that Jon is using with a modified KADESTICK firmware (less pins) -- ATmega32u4 boards like those and the Mattair Tech board in KADESTICK should be added to Loader soon.

The KADE team is working on ensuring a variety of affordable AVR options are available for all your encoder needs.   


Scott