Need the straight dope on Monitior Sync rates!

[wonderboy78]

Hi All,

 I'm trying to work out what CRT Arcade monitor will best suit my needs and I'm sure one of you guys would know.

Firstly I want to mostly play classics like Street Fighter, Bubble Bobble, KOF, Metal Slug, NBA Jam, etc and I think these will all run well on a 15khz Monitor because that's what they all used back in the day, is this correct? Would also like to run some console games if I can, like SNES for instance

I'm also wondering what games I would not be able to play if I only had a 15khz screen, is there a way to check using Mame or some other list I could consult to help me make my decision?

Wondering about the usefulness of a Multi-Sync Monitor that can automaticly switch between modes for different games, I should also note I am planing on using an Ultimarc Arcade VGA Card.

A company near me (I'm in Australia) can sell me a (second hand) Sega Blast City Cabinet with a working 29" (Nanao) Multi-sync (15/24/31khz) in it for about $750 inc delivery, does this sound reasanable?

I would then hopefully be able to put a PC inside it and hook it to the AVGA Card and the IPAC control board they also sell with out to much trouble, so I could play Mame etc.

[rCadeGaming]

You can right click on any game in MAME and click properties to see the game's native resolution (what the real PCB outputs).

15kHz basically means resolutions around 240p (commonly 224 lines or 256 lines) or 480i.  90% of games in MAME originally ran in 15kHz progress resolutions, so that is what you want.  Same thing with console games prior to the Dreamcast.  Running a game in native resolution on a real CRT will produce the best picture by far.  To play higher resolution games on a 15kHz monitor, you can scale them to 480i, or something close.  It's a compromise, but its not terrible.

Having a tri-sync is generally great, as you can display medium resolution (24kHz) and 480p (31kHz) games in native res as well.  Sometimes the finer dot-pitch of a tri-sync can be too sharp and create thicker scanlines than you would like though.  Also, it makes a big difference if the monitor is autoswitching or if you have change a jumper on the chassis.  That Nanao monitor you mentioned is pretty common, so there should be someone here who's more familiar with them to tell you if either of those things will be a problem with that particular monitor.

Honestly I don't know what candy cabs go for in Australia, but I think that $750 would be a pretty good deal here if the cab and monitor are in decent shape.  I just checked, and I see the US to AUS currency exchange rate is almost 1:1, but you're closer to Japan so I don't know.  Maybe they're more common there?  I'm on the east coast of the US, and they're very rare.  That would be an awesome cabinet too.  I love candy cabs.

[Gray_Area]

...I want to mostly play classics like Street Fighter, Bubble Bobble, KOF, Metal Slug, NBA Jam...

While they are 15khz games, they ain't classics.

[rCadeGaming]

Ok, the original Street Fighter is garbage, but SFII, Metal Slug, and NBA Jam are definitely classics!

[mamenewb100]

Ok, the original Street Fighter is garbage, but SFII, Metal Slug, and NBA Jam are definitely classics!

I think Gray's definition of classics is 70's/80s hits like Pacman, Donkey Kong, Asteroids, Galaga, etc.

Personally I consider even some of the first gen 3d games classics at this point.

[rCadeGaming]

I know, I figured he was either just joking or he meant that era.

[wonderboy78]

You can right click on any game in MAME and click properties to see the game's native resolution (what the real PCB outputs).

15kHz basically means resolutions around 240p (commonly 224 lines or 256 lines) or 480i.  90% of games in MAME originally ran in 15kHz progress resolutions, so that is what you want.  Same thing with console games prior to the Dreamcast.  Running a game in native resolution on a real CRT will produce the best picture by far.  To play higher resolution games on a 15kHz monitor, you can scale them to 480i, or something close.  It's a compromise, but its not terrible.

Having a tri-sync is generally great, as you can display medium resolution (24kHz) and 480p (31kHz) games in native res as well.  Sometimes the finer dot-pitch of a tri-sync can be too sharp and create thicker scanlines than you would like though.  Also, it makes a big difference if the monitor is autoswitching or if you have change a jumper on the chassis.  That Nanao monitor you mentioned is pretty common, so there should be someone here who's more familiar with them to tell you if either of those things will be a problem with that particular monitor.

Honestly I don't know what candy cabs go for in Australia, but I think that $750 would be a pretty good deal here if the cab and monitor are in decent shape.  I just checked, and I see the US to AUS currency exchange rate is almost 1:1, but you're closer to Japan so I don't know.  Maybe they're more common there?  I'm on the east coast of the US, and they're very rare.  That would be an awesome cabinet too.  I love candy cabs.

Thanks for your answer and the time you have taken : )

Cool, so a 15Khz screen will run most games. And a screen that is 15Khz and has a resolution of 320 x 240 has a maximum resolution of 640 x 480 interlaced, right? So that cames that are slightly more than the native resolution (like street fight II, which Mame says is 384 x 224) will still run fine?

And does this mean I can run Hyperspin at 640x480i? Because I read a post by BadBoyBilly that says it can be set to this res. And if so will it look okay?

Yep an Auto switching Tri-Sync would be awesome! But are you saying some Tri-Sync's are a bit sharp when running the 15Khz games? I'd imagine it still looks a lot better than a PC monitor though?

I love the look of Candy Cabs too, though I've never played on one. It seemed like a good deal to me but I have noticed that the price of the ones I mentioned meant that the monitor was not fully funtioning and needed work, the ones with working screens had an "please ask" for the price, so I will have to get in touch and see what that would cost, I'm guessing another $1-$200, as they have ones with multi game boards (300 games etc) for about $1200 or so, so I'm guesing the price without falls somewhere in between.

Thing is though, that's starting to get very expensive and I really like the idea of being able to play most things nicley on a cheap cab with a 15Khz screen.

[wonderboy78]

Ok, the original Street Fighter is garbage, but SFII, Metal Slug, and NBA Jam are definitely classics!

Thanks, I did acually mean Street Fighter II not the first one : ) I think the other guy was saying only games that come from the "Golden Era" of arcade games can be called classics but I think that is wrong. A classic is anything that is exemplary in it's genre or sets a standard by which other things are influenced of compared to.

[rCadeGaming]

Thanks for your answer and the time you have taken : )

A pleasure 

And a screen that is 15Khz and has a resolution of 320 x 240 has a maximum resolution of 640 x 480 interlaced, right? So that cames that are slightly more than the native resolution (like street fight II, which Mame says is 384 x 224) will still run fine?

Yes, and the horizontal resolution (384 in this case) doesn't really matter.  The vertical resolution is what's important (the number of lines, 224 in this case).  A 15kHz monitor or standard def TV can display anything around 240p, which includes 224p, 256p, or even a little further from 240 if you push it.  224p is not pushing it.  If you use an interlaced resolution, you can double the number of lines.

And does this mean I can run Hyperspin at 640x480i?

Yes.

But are you saying some Tri-Sync's are a bit sharp when running the 15Khz games? I'd imagine it still looks a lot better than a PC monitor though?

It would.  I'd get some impressions from someone more familiar with that exact monitor if you're considering it.