I'm looking for a theatre display again.....

[Gray_Area]

I have room to get one now, so am looking to buy. I was leaning toward 50" plasma. Anybody have any makes and models in particular to comment on?

Does anyone have an alternative hardware suggestion? And, why?

[saint]

HD projector! Double the size of your screen Note some dissent in this thread:

For something close like that I'd go with a monitor. However, I disagree with PBJ's assessment of a projector in general. The 100" screen is the centerpoint of entertaining in our house frequently. 4 player Gauntlet, NFS Porsche Unleashed Racing, X-box and Wii gaming, freaking awesome with our HD projector. A 55" tv just wouldn't be the same at all.

Photos of course do not do the image quality justice. When we had a standard def projector it was good, but when we put up the HD projector it's a mind blowing picture. First thing we did was fire up the Planet Earth blu-ray and our jaws dropped.

[saint]

Why does the dissent always have to be me?

 

Not sure, check your mirror

I just wanted to make sure he knew that not everyone shared my opinion on projectors so he could make a good decision for his needs.

[drventure]

+1 on the projector.

We have a motorized, tab tensioned screen that I mounted into the ceiling. Hides away when you don't want a great big tv dominating the room, but rolls out quickly.

The important things about projectors, to me anyway, are:
1) the general ambient light level where you plan on putting it, even bright Projectors tend to need a darker room.
2) how easy is it to run cabling. Remember that probably all your stereo equipment will be near the screen, but the projector will be on the other side of the room.
3) the screen door effect. With many projectors, you can easily make out a grid of lines between pixels. That just annoys the heck out of me. But there are some that don't.
4) the required throw in the room. This is pretty important, esp if you have a peculiar sized room or a very large screen. Projectors have a "throw range" which just means that, at a particular distance from the screen, the projector can only make the image from x to y in size. So, if where you have to mount the projector would preclude getting the screensize you want, you either would have to move things or get a different projector.

I found

http://www.projectorcentral.com

to be an invaluable resource when researching projectors a while back.

[Necroticart]

Also have to give a +1

Right now i'm running an HD33 it was relatively inexpensive and preforms great. The black lvls could always be better but for the the price it was hard to pass up. Plus bulbs only run around $230- $250. also keep in mind if you don't plan to mount the projector then lens shift is something you might want to look into and another thing D-ILA vs DLP vs 3LCD each type has it's pros and cons I've always gone DLP given the sharper image and the fact they have no convergence issues since they use a single chip design which also benefits 3D viewing no crosstalk caused by misalignment.   

[ChadTower]

5)  The fact that nobody can walk between the projector and the screen while it's in use.

This is a big one I have seen a lot of people disregard until they put a theater in a small room and then nobody could leave once the movie begins.

[Gray_Area]

I thought of these two conditions later last night:

- my viewing distance is eight or nine feet

- under $1000

[saint]

I thought of these two conditions later last night:

- my viewing distance is eight or nine feet

- under $1000

They make short-throw projectors but it may cost a bit more. Jim scoffs, and there's not one size fits all, but the 100" screen in my basement is the entertainment center of our house now. Video games, family slide shows, and HD movies are stunning on the screen. Combined with the 5.1 audio system I installed as well, it really is the theater experience at home. My wife even bought us one of those movie theater-style popcorn poppers, and now my kids don't want microwave popcorn anymore. About once a week or so we all gather around, pop a couple of big bowls of real popcorn, and fire up either a new blu-ray HD movie, or indoctrinate our kids in one of our favorites from the 80's/90's. 50" televisions look small to me these days, which is boggling seeing as how I used to have a 32" tv...

Suggestion: Find someone with a 100" projector screen and watch a movie or at least a brief demo there. Then find a similar rig with a 50" inch TV. I'd about put money down that you'll prefer the projector.

In fact, a year ago we upgraded from a 480i projector to a HD 1080p projector. I'm about to re-mount the 480i projector in the the guest room in the basement, so I can hook up the wii for the kids (and occasionally me) because the HD projector is constantly occupied with X-box 360 or movies. The wii's on a TV right now, but the kids have been bugging me to put it on a projector again.

[saint]

I thought of these two conditions later last night:

- my viewing distance is eight or nine feet

- under $1000

Ah, price considerations: When I bought into it, getting a good HD projector put me back $1100 (but I got a spare bulb with it, which will save me $350 or whatever ridiculous amount a bulb costs down the road). We then built our own screen (read that as, my buddy built it for me as a gift) which works great and cost about $100 in materials. Our picture is amazing on the screen, but would probably jump up a notch in "wow" factor with a professional screen. Our thought was we would buy a professional screen when we could afford it, but we've never actually felt the need because the home built screen quality is so good.

SO - I think you could get into it for about $1200 for a good (but admittedly entry-level) HD 1080p projector, but under $1000 may be difficult. Also, down the road you'll have the replacement bulb to pay for which isn't an issue with a tv I don't think. Still our experience has been that the size and quality of the picture was well worth the extra cost.

[saint]

Problem with projectors is that you've got to dedicate a flat wall and a lot of unobstructed floor space to use them.  If you live in basement-land, maybe you've got that much dead space.  Maybe you're too crazy to realize it shouldn't be full of pinball machines.   They take forever to warm up and the whole time you're worrying about your bulb.  I've never met a projector owner that doesn't tell me exactly how many hours they have left on their bulb and how much a replacement costs.

Takes about 10 seconds for my projector to warm up. Not sure how dedicating a flat wall for a screen is any different than dedicating the space on the wall for the TV. Bigger, sure, but bigger's the point. Floor space I don't get at all. We do whatever we want with the floor, including having kids lay down to watch the movies if they want. Same as the TV.

No disagreement really on the bulb

[lilshawn]

bulbs are cheap enough now that it's not really that big of an issue. (most high end bulbs can be had for about 120)

stick to Philips (or other original brand) and steer clear of osram bulbs and you'll do fine. unless you want inexpensive vs. lifetime (approx 2500 hours vs. 4000+). Osram replacement bulbs can be obtained for about $60 and under on thebay.

[drventure]

5)  The fact that nobody can walk between the projector and the screen while it's in use.
This is a big one I have seen a lot of people disregard until they put a theater in a small room and then nobody could leave once the movie begins.

We just use the pause button.

[Gray_Area]

I got it that jim meant you might want pictures or something on the wall....

Of course, in the 80s, everyone in sci-fi had a wall screen, and everyone wanted one.

I have a dedicated theatre room. Almost strictly, I will be the only one watching. I might go 50" plasma, though, because like jim said it's place and play.

[lilshawn]

5)  The fact that nobody can walk between the projector and the screen while it's in use.
This is a big one I have seen a lot of people disregard until they put a theater in a small room and then nobody could leave once the movie begins.

We just use the pause button.

are we not mounting the projector on the ceiling?!?

[crashwg]

I'll throw in my 2¢ and say some people are prone no nausea induced by DLP's "rainbow effect."  My wife is one of those people so our next projector will have to not be DLP.

[shmokes]

I would unhesitatingly go with Plasma over LCD. The colors (especially black) are just better. And some LCDs (my friends nice Sony, but strangely not my far less expensive Philips) have a strange, flat look that makes things look somehow low quality and unrealistic. Not like the resolution is low, but like the source is poor quality like daytime soaps or something. It's very difficult for me to articulate, but I've seen it lots of times.

My problem with projectors (take with a giant grain of salt seeing as I've never owned one), is that it seems like it would be difficult to integrate them smoothly into the entertainment center for me. I LOVE my Harmony remote, and the idea that I can't press a single activity button (e.g., Watch Movie) and have it turn everything on and select all the proper inputs, etc., is a deal breaker. Now, I know that I could get some very long IR blasters or something to get my remote's signal back behind me to the projector, but I'm not at that point of home theater setup yet. I don't own a house, for one. So for me, I think a nice big TV is the better choice.

[kahlid74]

My problem with projectors (take with a giant grain of salt seeing as I've never owned one), is that it seems like it would be difficult to integrate them smoothly into the entertainment center for me. I LOVE my Harmony remote, and the idea that I can't press a single activity button (e.g., Watch Movie) and have it turn everything on and select all the proper inputs, etc., is a deal breaker. Now, I know that I could get some very long IR blasters or something to get my remote's signal back behind me to the projector, but I'm not at that point of home theater setup yet. I don't own a house, for one. So for me, I think a nice big TV is the better choice.

This makes sense except that now days everything is Receiver controlled.  A good receiver takes care of all of this including all of these things running, outputs, inputs, etc.  If you get a chance, check out the 300-700 range for receivers.  They can basically do everything you want with any type of output.

I'm a big fan of projects.  They are fantastic now for home entertainment rooms.

[ChadTower]

The ironic part of that is that the receiver is generally the thing that'll last 20 years.  Of all of the parts to replace in a home theater the receiver is usually the one rock solid part that doesn't need swapping.  I have a GE receiver from the mid 60s that can still blow the windows out.  Yeah, no processed modes, but who cares when you can feel the bass in your colon?

[Necroticart]

I'll throw in my 2¢ and say some people are prone no nausea induced by DLP's "rainbow effect."  My wife is one of those people so our next projector will have to not be DLP.

My wife has the same problem try an ND2 or 4 camera filter over the lens it will block most of the effect.

[CCM]

5)  The fact that nobody can walk between the projector and the screen while it's in use.

This is a big one I have seen a lot of people disregard until they put a theater in a small room and then nobody could leave once the movie begins.

Huh?   So hang a flat screen on the wall in that same small room, and your view will still be blocked when people walk in front of you...

[ChadTower]

Huh?   So hang a flat screen on the wall in that same small room, and your view will still be blocked when people walk in front of you...

Think about this for a second.  With a projector they often can't walk behind you either.

[Gray_Area]

I'll throw in my 2¢ and say some people are prone no nausea induced by DLP's "rainbow effect."  My wife is one of those people so our next projector will have to not be DLP.

By single-chip DLPs. I wonder whether the greater apparance of this effect to some is due to the pattern of a person's eye movements.


A little in contrast to the nature of this forum and all, but I don't want to put stuff together. The bulk of the work in this....project....may be as much as wall-mounting the display, but will probably be hooking it up to a computer and running an ethernet cable through the wall.

So what 50" plasmas do you recommend?

[shmokes]

Panasonic is best (RIP Pioneer).

[saint]

Huh?   So hang a flat screen on the wall in that same small room, and your view will still be blocked when people walk in front of you...

Think about this for a second.  With a projector they often can't walk behind you either.

Have to be a pretty funky room setup for that. Ceiling mounted projector properly spaced really doesn't have that issue any more than a tv on the wall. If you can't mount it properly, for instance if you're putting it on a table, then yeah, different story.

[lilshawn]

the gamut on some plasmas are terrible.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=116768.msg1238418#msg1238418)

remember?

[shponglefan]

+1 for the projector idea.

I went with a projector for my HT a number of years ago and haven't looked back.  IMHO, the screen size you can get with a projector really puts the "theater" in home theater.  And on a cost basis, projectors tend to be cheaper given the screen size you can get.

That said, they need a dedicated "dark" room to function properly and require space for installing both the screen and the projector.

[shponglefan]

My problem with projectors (take with a giant grain of salt seeing as I've never owned one), is that it seems like it would be difficult to integrate them smoothly into the entertainment center for me. I LOVE my Harmony remote, and the idea that I can't press a single activity button (e.g., Watch Movie) and have it turn everything on and select all the proper inputs, etc., is a deal breaker. Now, I know that I could get some very long IR blasters or something to get my remote's signal back behind me to the projector, but I'm not at that point of home theater setup yet. I don't own a house, for one. So for me, I think a nice big TV is the better choice.

SRSLY?  Two button presses instead of one is a deal breaker vs having a 100+ inch theater screen?   

[lilshawn]

'mercans 

[shmokes]

My problem with projectors (take with a giant grain of salt seeing as I've never owned one), is that it seems like it would be difficult to integrate them smoothly into the entertainment center for me. I LOVE my Harmony remote, and the idea that I can't press a single activity button (e.g., Watch Movie) and have it turn everything on and select all the proper inputs, etc., is a deal breaker. Now, I know that I could get some very long IR blasters or something to get my remote's signal back behind me to the projector, but I'm not at that point of home theater setup yet. I don't own a house, for one. So for me, I think a nice big TV is the better choice.

SRSLY?  Two button presses instead of one is a deal breaker vs having a 100+ inch theater screen?  

It's not just an extra button press. It's an extra button press on an extra remote. And it's probably a super unintuitive remote because they almost all are. Moreover, you don't just have to turn on the power. You also need to select inputs and other things as well. Anyway, you'll notice that I didn't say I would never buy a projector. I said that for me, right now, living in an apartment rather than a house, a big TV makes more sense. When I have a house and can make the effort to control everything with a Harmony using IR blasters or RF, I think it very likely that I'll seriously consider a projector.

Edit: grammar

[shponglefan]

It's not just an extra button press. It's an extra button press on an extra remote. And it's probably a super unintuitive remote because they almost all are. Moreover, you don't just have to turn on the power. You also need to select inputs and other things as well. Anyway, you'll notice that I didn't say I would never buy a projector. I said that for me, right now, living in an apartment rather than a house, a big TV makes more sense. When I have a house and can make the effort to control everything with a Harmony using IR blasters or RF, I think it very likely that I'll seriously consider a projector.

To each there own, but I was a little surprised that having an extra remote is a big issue.  FWIW, in my experience all I ever do with my projector is turn it on or off, and the remote is perfectly easy to use for that (actually, it's probably the simplest remote I have).  Input selection is handled on my receiver, which in turn is connected to the projector.

At any rate, there are upsides and downsides of projectors vs LCD TVs... Like you say, in an apartment, a projector probably isn't as viable an option.

[ed12]

hi
if u are gonna drop coin on a plasma <<yuck yuck read yuck
why not a 50" led wall mount ? and or a 60"
sharp makes some real nice unit's
pricey i agree,but boy oh boy
i am talking the wiffie into a 60" right now

ed

[Vigo]

After working out the problems with Panasonic on the Plasma I bought, I have been super happy with the quality and price of my 50" plasma that I just bought.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00752VKD2/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

I'ts a 720, but I actually prefer 720 to 1080 anyway. 1080 may be pretty, but I watch a lot of old film and tv. I notice way too much film defect on a 1080 and it worsens my enjoyment experience.

I wouldn't touch a projector because I like being able to watch with the lights on. I don't like LCD's as much either, at least ones that come in a reasonable price range. You will have to pay a ton of money to have a picture that competes with a plasma as far as black levels and color richness goes.

[Gray_Area]

It's not just an extra button press. It's an extra button press on an extra remote.

I'm with shmokes - I hate having to fiddle with stuff. However. I watch only Netflix and stored data, in which case a mouse and keyboard are best for me. Plus you can surf best with them at the drop of a hat, as I'm wont to do at times - stop a movie and look up actors and such.

Thinking more about the space, I tend to have a dim 'backlight' on in the room, otherwise I can get a headache. I notice theatres these days have dim ambient lighting, and I haven't gotten a headache in one in a while.


@Vigo: I wonder about Panasonic after looking up the TC-P50U2 VIERA wherein, at ConsumerReportsonline, there are several people saying there's a fault that Panasonic won't address. What were your problems?

[Vigo]

Two problems. First was that the tv has composite video-in was using the same inputs as the standard component-in. The tv was not registering that I had a full HD composite plugged in and the image was black and white because it was not looking for the luma and chroma. I updated the TV firmware (super easy because it was a internet capable tv). and then after update I had an option to switch between Component in and composite in.

The second problem was that I was disappointed with the quality of the 3d. The 2d to 3d conversion is spectacular, but the native 3d video seems to have some nasty crosstalk in scenes where the picture was dark but had some bright spots. (i.e. night sky and moon) It wasn't a sync issue though. I researched, and even though I have panasonic glasses, they simply do not get dark enough to block out the bright scenes since the tv is very vibrant. I adjusted the video as much as I could, and it is more acceptable now. I tried holding up some darkening filters to the lenses, and the 3d becomes almost perfect. I may be modding my 3d glasses in the future since it is a hassle to darken the screen every time i want 3d.

and as far as brand goes, I would trust Panasonic much more than most brands. I am currently part of a class action lawsuit on my old samsung. Sammy just denied my claim that was previously approved. They are telling me that even though I did proved I had a defective TV, and even though I filed correctly, they changed their standards for what kind of approval they are accepting, after the fact. So now I am denied, coincidentally they did this within hours of the court deadline. Asses.

[lilshawn]

I am currently part of a class action lawsuit on my old samsung.

is this the one that the power supply fails because of a bum cap? or is this a different one?

[Vigo]

I am currently part of a class action lawsuit on my old samsung.

is this the one that the power supply fails because of a bum cap? or is this a different one?

Yep, That's the one. Although I had a whole lot more go wrong on my tv. If it was only a bum cap that went wrong, I would have replaced it and went on my way. I had massive lines running through my screen both horizontally and vertically. Replaced 2 of the TV boards and it still had problems.

Man, I was all hot and bothered for a 3D HDTV and then life interfered.  Then I got a cheapie TriOviz setup going on my Xbox 360.  And, yeah, I basically hate having to wear glasses.   

Yeah, there is effort with glasses. I probably would not have gotten a 3D tv, except it was no more expensive than non 3d of Panasonic. I dont know much about the TriOviz method, but after seeing the cheap solution you found, it seems like a smart route to feed the need for 3D.

[DillonFoulds]

I'm on my third samsung FPD. The first two were plasmas, and they both got horizontal black lines. Sets both lasted about 14 months and then like clockwork the lines appeared. I managed to talk the customer service department into swapping out the sets both times. My third one is LED, so I guess we'll see how long this one lasts...

[Gray_Area]

Electronics are inexpensive, but they're getting cheap.

[ChadTower]

Broadening the scope a little bit I am in the process of cutting the cord from DirecTV.  I'm going to online streaming and local storage.  So far, it's going well, with some small device specific challenges along the way.

It's amazing how sometimes the best results come from the noname brands.  I have a 60" WEGA RPTV in my basement that barely ever plays well with anything.  HDMI is buggy and the projector is defective despite being a very high end TV when it was purchased (not by me but I appreciate how much it sucks to spend $3000 on a TV and give it away 2.5 years later due to defects).  Getting that WEGA to play nice with a WDTV client has been a challenge to say the least.

I have two old 32" LCDs from Olevia that were value models years ago.  I plugged the WDTV client into those and BOOM instant compatibility with no issues at all.  In fact they are showing a clearer HD picture than I've ever seen them show.  The $3000 WEGA has all sorts of issues but the cheapo noname LCDs are still kicking and work wonderfully with a modern client.

You really never know what you're going to get with modern TVs and that just kills my motivation to spend substantial money on them.  Last night I was at the Sony Outlet by my house talking to a salesman.  I told him about my WEGA and he was instantly familiar with the issues.  Of course he told me it's time to replace that with a similar sized TV.  I asked him why I should spend $3000 on another Sony given that the one I have lasted the original owner less than three years.  He pointed out that a 60" Plasma at his store is $1800.  Same question, $1800, and get his response:  "Buying a modern TV is always a gamble.  Sometimes they just don't last the way one would expect.  We know this when we buy one."  I thanked him for his time and honesty and for talking me out of buying a new TV.

I just don't understand the TV consumer's mindset now.  We went from TVs that would still be perfectly functional 20 years after purchase that would only be replaced for size upgrades to TVs that cost three times as much and maybe last 25% of the lifespan.  People are willing to accept this?  It makes no sense to me at all.

[shmokes]

To some degree, this seems like an unfair complaint. Like expressing displeasure with a VCR's longevity shortly after the introduction of DVD. If you buy any descent-quality TV today there's no reason to think it won't last you many years. My Philips LCD panel is four or five years old (I bought it with one of the Bush tax rebates, whenever that was) and it's more-or-less indistinguishable in terms of quality and features from anything you can buy in the store today. I mean, it doesn't have 3D, or 120hz refresh, so I'm not saying that technology isn't constantly improving as it always will. But it's got a perfectly nice 1080p picture and lots of inputs including like 4 perfectly good HDMI ports. There's no reason to think this TV won't do everything I want it to do for the next 5 years. Content's not going to shift to 4k any time soon.

Part of my point is,  I doubt an Olevia rear projection television made at the same time as your Sony would be any better. Don't get me wrong. I've definitely been happier with no-name or smaller-name devices plenty of times in my life. But the reality is that the Wega TV was purchased at an unusually transformative time in the TV industry (shift to flat panels, shift to HDTV, HDMI vs. DVI). That time is over and has been for some time. The TV market is not fraught with unknowns right now. Any HD LCD or Plasma from Vizio, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, LG, or pretty much any other manufacturer is going to serve you fine for many years going forward. And prices are pretty fantastic right now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I sort of suspect that we don't spend more on a TV today any more than we spend more on a candy bar or a soda today or a house than we did 20 years ago. We also get paid more.

Don't get me wrong . . . some panels have far better pictures than others, with better color saturation, contrast, black levels, refresh-rate, bonus features like Netflix streaming, etc. Some are better values than others. You should do your homework and get the best bang for your buck. But this is no different than it's ever been.