Projectors, Speeders, Fan-art liability, and other issues

[Le Chuck]

I've only used projectors on deployments.  They seem to be coming along nicely tho, anybody using them for MAME?  For a build?  

Any recommendations on what to get would be great.  I'd like something that i can use with the lights on if that's even possible.  How important is it to have a dark room to play in?  

[yotsuya]

I've only used projectors on deployments.  They seem to be coming along nicely tho, anybody using them for MAME?  For a build? 

Any recommendations on what to get would be great.  I'd like something that i can use with the lights on if that's even possible.  How important is it to have a dark room to play in? 

I do a lot of projector work for classrooms, and honestly, if you can't get the room completely dark, it's always going to look washed out, especially if there is any light hitting the surface you are projecting on.

[fallacy]

I have the Acer H5360BD DLP Projector which I bout for me little Media\Game\Computer Room not to long ago. It’s defiantly bright enough, no screen blur, if you have the space you pretty much can make it look like you have a 120” TV.

[Le Chuck]

You can snag a 55+" flat screen for <$1,000 all day, every day.  The arguments for projectors are moot.

That's a fair statement.  I'm not going for size so much as disguise tho, picture quality and illum will play a bigger role in decision making than price and size.

I do a lot of projector work for classrooms, and honestly, if you can't get the room completely dark, it's always going to look washed out, especially if there is any light hitting the surface you are projecting on.

 

Crap.

I have the Acer H5360BD DLP Projector which I bout for me little Media\Game\Computer Room not to long ago. It’s defiantly bright enough, no screen blur, if you have the space you pretty much can make it look like you have a 120” TV.

Any no flash pics of the projected surface with ambient light?

[drventure]

I've had a Panasonic Ae900u for about 3 or 4 years now. It was an older model projector when I bought it, so I only paid about 350$ originally.

For screen, I picked up a really nice motorized tab tensioned screen from a guy clearing out old equipment from a college that was being refurbished. It's an 80" diagonal (which is just about as big as the room it's going in will allow).

We +really+ like it. It's the only TV in the household (other than computer monitors on computers) and we use it daily.

But Yotsuya is right, the room needs to be pretty dark or the screen will wash out. No prob for where we've got it, but that could be an issue.

I like it because the projector is tiny and the screen can be rolled up into the ceiling when not in use. We put a large framed pic behind it and presto, disappearing home theater!

I really like the panasonic for two reasons
1) it's HD but it's really affordable.
2) it doesn't have that "screendoor" effect that a lot of projectors seem to have (where you can actually see the pixel outlines even from normal viewing distances).

If I upgrade, I'd probably go to the ae4000, but those are still pretty $$$

Or I'll hold out till they get the paintable OLED screens perfected 

[drventure]

Ah didn't see the "for mame, for a build" part.

Nah, don't think I'd bother with one there.

[Le Chuck]

Hrmm... disappointing to say the least.  What about wireless VGA, anybody messed with that?  I have an idea but it is 90% less cool with a monitor attached to the build and 100% less cool with cables. 

[wanimal]

If you planned on putting one in a cabinet that would be a no go. They get way too hot to be in enclosed areas for any sort of extended period.

[Le Chuck]

If you planned on putting one in a cabinet that would be a no go. They get way too hot to be in enclosed areas for any sort of extended period.

Seems like "they" oughta come up with some sort of small mechanical solution to help channel heat away from sensitive components in enclosed spaces...

[drventure]

A pedestal build with a projector built in could be kind of cool, assuming you could get the keystoning correct for the projection angle (and I'm betting that wouldn't be a problem).

But wanimal is right, they get frickin' hot!

I bought (and returned) one of these at one point.


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=683807&Q=&is=REG&A=details

Pros
- they're SUPER small (intended for portable use with laptops)
- super bright image (I had no problems seeing the screen with full sun and lights on in the room).
- Seems to do a fine job with computer displays
- LED and lasers means there's no halogen bulb to burn out. Supposedly a very long life for the things and more robust to boot.

Cons
- The picture doesn't do movies justice AT ALL. Not sure how emulated 8bit arcade games would look on
- there's no lens adjustment at all, you have to mount the thing perfectly straight.
- The lens is pretty minimal, so you don't have near the number of options of screensize/throw length, etc that you do with the bigger projectors.


Short version, I didn't like the picture quality for movies, so I returned it, but just about everything else was passable or better.

Might be an option.

[Le Chuck]

I'll just put it on front street.  I have a nadir of an idea for my SW tribute.  This is in no way a project announce as I'm just researching feasibility.  

I'm leaning towards building this:



or this:



With either-or I plan to have it running SW, ESB, SW Trilogy, SW Racer Arcade, and ROTJ Vector if the Urban Interactive guy ever finishes it up.  What I would like to do is have the projector disguised in the build so 90% of the time it's art and then when I'm feeling froggy I can jump on it and play a game or 12.  Neither one would look especially good hooked up to a monitor so I figured this would be a good application for a projector.  I can always install water cooling lines around the projector.  

* I ripped the images of wookiepedia, if the links go dead it's between a Sith FC-20 Speeder and an Imperial 74-Z speeder.

[drventure]

Whoa.

Totally, not what I was guessing 

If you're asking for votes (and you're not, but what the hell), I'd lean toward the speeder bike. That thing is just iconic.

but hiding a projector in it might get tough.

It'd be one hell of a build if you attempt it though!

[wanimal]

dear god...

[Le Chuck]

Whoa.

Totally, not what I was guessing 

If you're asking for votes (and you're not, but what the hell), I'd lean toward the speeder bike. That thing is just iconic.

but hiding a projector in it might get tough.

It'd be one hell of a build if you attempt it though!

I am as well, also there will be a base for support and likely electrical component enclosure (done up to look like forest floor or desert depending on which speeder I do)  The projector could be down there.  For the 74-Z I would like to have the bike on a tilt mech so the roll analog input comes from leaning (or depressing the foot pedals) and the pitch from the speeder handles.  I'll also create a quick disconnect so that the handles can operate independently for SW Racer Arcade (While I'm dreaming, what the hell right?).  I'm thinking that I'll also map the roll onto the handlebars so the rider can choose either play method.  This of course is my pipe dream.  My Retro-futuristic Mission Control Opus build.  But it would only be so cool if I can't start with a great screen image and build around that.    

[yotsuya]

Much props to you, Chuck, for continually thinking outside the box.

[Vigo]

Thats just crazy, Le Chuck.  At this rate you will have George himself visiting your house to hang out..

[ark_ader]

For a few weeks I had the projector out playing Xbox games.  I like a 70' screen, great for movies, but it is not a short throw projector, and you would need a projector in front of you than behind.  The noise and heat isn't the best experience you can have, that said if you open a window and crank the stereo up, playing HOTD with the Topgun is a pretty cool experience.   

I cannot play racing games on the projector, as it can easy induce motion sickness.

Thinking of making Count Dukoo's speeder bike?  Hope you make that seat comfy.   

[saint]

For something close like that I'd go with a monitor. However, I disagree with PBJ's assessment of a projector in general. The 100" screen is the centerpoint of entertaining in our house frequently. 4 player Gauntlet, NFS Porsche Unleashed Racing, X-box and Wii gaming, freaking awesome with our HD projector. A 55" tv just wouldn't be the same at all.

Photos of course do not do the image quality justice. When we had a standard def projector it was good, but when we put up the HD projector it's a mind blowing picture. First thing we did was fire up the Planet Earth blu-ray and our jaws dropped.

[Le Chuck]

For something close like that I'd go with a monitor. However, I disagree with PBJ's assessment of a projector in general. The 100" screen is the centerpoint of entertaining in our house frequently. 4 player Gauntlet, NFS Porsche Unleashed Racing, X-box and Wii gaming, freaking awesome with our HD projector. A 55" tv just wouldn't be the same at all.

Photos of course do not do the image quality justice. When we had a standard def projector it was good, but when we put up the HD projector it's a mind blowing picture. First thing we did was fire up the Planet Earth blu-ray and our jaws dropped.

That is pretty good looking, and looks like everyone was having a blast too.  I am also contemplating building it one one of the arcade flat screens used in the SW Trilogy or SW Racer cabinet.  I can hook it up so that the speeder can be displayed separately and might add wireless functionality to it so it *could* be played with a projector and a HPTC but It would loose the SW Racer Arcade functionality when in wireless mode.  I think I may start with a SW Racer Arcade and build around that since there is no emulation solution a this time.   

I was browsing projectors and thought that HD at 2000 lumens would do the trick.  At the price point for those it eats up about 2/3 of my build budget tho so may not be the best option. 

[PL1]

I am as well, also there will be a base for support and likely electrical component enclosure (done up to look like forest floor or desert depending on which speeder I do)  The projector could be down there.  For the 74-Z I would like to have the bike on a tilt mech so the roll analog input comes from leaning (or depressing the foot pedals) and the pitch from the speeder handles.  I'll also create a quick disconnect so that the handles can operate independently for SW Racer Arcade (While I'm dreaming, what the hell right?).  I'm thinking that I'll also map the roll onto the handlebars so the rider can choose either play method.  This of course is my pipe dream.  My Retro-futuristic Mission Control Opus build.  But it would only be so cool if I can't start with a great screen image and build around that.    

I'm just spitballing here, but for some reason, the image that sprang to my mind was a S.T.U.N. Runner style cabinet, minus the monitor. the yoke uses the same mount as SW, and you could mount foot pedals into the running boards.

Heavy pipe with bearings on an A-frame under the seat could allow the whole thing to tilt for roll control. (Red) Mount a gear on the end cap to turn a pot--maybe use some 60+14 tooth gears like the SW yoke. (Green)

Springs or bungee can dampen and center the roll.

Blocks on levers can wedge between the lower edges of the seat box and the base to lock out roll. Bonus round - put the blocks inside the seat box and incorporate the levers into the external design. (Gold)

Either mount the projector below the front deflector plates or project upward and bounce it off a ground-mounted fixed 45 degree mirror hidden by the plates which can be on either side as long as they don't touch the mirror or block the projector path. (Gray)

[Santoro]

Whoa is right.  Watching this space.

[Le Chuck]

Thanks PL1, that's a good idea.  S.T.U.N. runner was part of the inspiration for this idea.  I've had some similar thoughts about the mechanics but I like where you're heading.  I don't have a lot of room but I do have the convenience of scale.  The trick will be frame stability as I want the speeder to really look like it's floating.  For that reason I am leaning towards foot pedal actuation rather than leaning because without your feet planted on the ground and no inertial force it might be a challenge to quickly and accurately roll.  I also want to isolate my redundancy ie lever to allow rolling, lever to allow independent handle actuation etc (figured the mechanics out for that one in the shower).  Loooooong way to go before this is anything but academic tho.   

[PL1]

Thanks PL1, that's a good idea.  S.T.U.N. runner was part of the inspiration for this idea.  I've had some similar thoughts about the mechanics but I like where you're heading.  I don't have a lot of room but I do have the convenience of scale.  The trick will be frame stability as I want the speeder to really look like it's floating.  For that reason I am leaning towards foot pedal actuation rather than leaning because without your feet planted on the ground and no inertial force it might be a challenge to quickly and accurately roll.  I also want to isolate my redundancy ie lever to allow rolling, lever to allow independent handle actuation etc (figured the mechanics out for that one in the shower).  Loooooong way to go before this is anything but academic tho.  

Another possibility is to use an arm with pedals on each end that turn a center shaft/gears/pot like the tail rotor control on Steel Talons.  Be sure to use solid footrests as mechanical stops for the arm.

To pull off the illusion of "floating" maybe using two tubing "pillars" to go from a base up to the seat. The green part is the pivot for the seat.  The rest of the frame is fixed.

[MTPPC]

Thats just crazy, Le Chuck.  At this rate you will have George himself visiting your house to hang out..

He might visit his house to get info for the lawsuit. I hear Lucas Arts is one of the toughest IP enforcers out there.

[yotsuya]

So when do we see this project on Kickstarter?

[Le Chuck]

So when do we see this project on Kickstarter?

Ha!  Never.  IF this gets made and IF it's worth a damn then you might see it at some shows and hopefully that could help me transition to an amusing post Army career down the road.  

(Note:  My use of never is not to be taken seriously, who the hell knows)

Thats just crazy, Le Chuck.   At this rate you will have George himself visiting your house to hang out..

He might visit his house to get info for the lawsuit. I hear Lucas Arts is one of the toughest IP enforcers out there.

I'd be more concerned about mass producing my minis than this.  It'll be a mod to a legally purchased gaming system(s) and the mechanical operation of the speeder will be such that is meets the 10% required operational difference that any proprietor maintains.  If necessary it'll get a nice coat of paint.  Besides there are tons of yahoos selling unlicensed prop reproductions all the time without so much of a worry to include a preponderance of LA materials.  The SW cab tho is a separately licensed and protected entity which may or may not garner unwanted attention in a for profit situation.  

Another possibility is to use an arm with pedals on each end that turn a center shaft/gears/pot like the tail rotor control on Steel Talons.  Be sure to use solid footrests as mechanical stops for the arm.

To pull off the illusion of "floating" maybe using two tubing "pillars" to go from a base up to the seat. The green part is the pivot for the seat.  The rest of the frame is fixed.

PL1, I'm loving your motivation.  I do my designing in the ether, call it 4th dimensionally.  I can draw what I see but I can't draw what I imagine if that makes sense and I generally don't understand 2D representations of 3D concepts.  I understand what you're getting at from the descriptions tho.  Just when if when if you see it don't feel bad if it's nothing like what you drew and feel free to take pride if it's exactly what you drew.  I like your pretty colors         

[Ond]

The whole home theater thing centered around projectors is dead.  Uses far too much space and kills any flexibility with room arrangement (you've probably only got one large wall without windows/doors in each room).

Really?  Damn, and I'm just in the process of rebuilding mine.  A visit to our local Home Theatre place to check out the latest in projectors (I'm replacing my AE900) blew me away with the latest in big ass 1080P projectors (and I'm not impressed easily by HT stuff).  I agree with the low flexibility tho...

@ Le Chuck - If you commit to this, I'll do a design concept (as apposed to some downloaded images). Then I'll dare you to build it. 

[Lilwolf]

I have plans on taking my old projector into the basement and make a stand up, projector shooter with dual guns.  Thought it would be great for john wooing it.  But my first computer I setup to do it couldn't play 1/2 of the games at full speed, so I upgraded it... but I haven't setup all the drivers yet and get the guns working.  I probably should have worked on it this weekend, but didn't.

[fallacy]

The whole home theater thing centered around projectors is dead.  Uses far too much space and kills any flexibility with room arrangement (you've probably only got one large wall without windows/doors in each room).

LOL maybe it's dead to you.

[CheffoJeffo]

The whole home theater thing centered around projectors is dead.  Uses far too much space and kills any flexibility with room arrangement (you've probably only got one large wall without windows/doors in each room).

Says the guy on an arcade forum ... 

[Le Chuck]

Ond - we all know that when you design something for a specific person that person is destined to never build it  *cough hack pinball wiz cough couch*

That said if I commit I'll let you know and send you some idears.  Right now I'm just shopping parts and spit-balling ideas.  I did find some cool links for speeder related stuff tho:

http://www.hollywoodhardware.de/special.htm

http://www.the-rpf.com/f9/my-full-size-speeder-bike-replica-92961/

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/f32/full-size-usable-speeder-bike-33427/

PBJ:  I thought the projector would be good for the exact reason that I don't plan on having a dedicated space.  If I take this to a show I want to be able to throw it up a wall.  I'll probably end up with both a projector and a having a TV hookup.  Who knows.  It's all philosophical right now anyway.

[kahlid74]

Late to the party, but the idea of projectors needing to be in dark rooms isn't really accurate anymore.  Projector technology has come far enough where you can see them in daylight now and still make out the image (even with slight washout).  The challenge is price.  If you want a project that can be seen during the day in a non dark room you're in the $1000 range ($700 for a refurbished).  So if you want a project do it, you won't regret it.  We have ours in the basement with two egress windows facing east.  Even at 10 AM when the sun is rocking on the windows you can still see plenty enough to rock games and movies.  The 12 foot viewing surface doesn't hurt either.

As far as heat is concerned it's not an issue.  A high end project will make oodles of heat but engineering a way to dissipate the heat is easy.  You just need to make sure it's on your agenda to tackle.

I love the idea of making something like that but I would make damn sure it's movable/liftable.  The worst thing you could do would be to build that and be unable to move it/rearrange it.

If you were planning to build something like that you need to look at measurements as a whole.  To feel like you're really in that world you'd need a 10-12 foot projected image, which means your project needs to be 15-20~ish feet back from the projected surface.  IMO you'd want to fix the project to the ceiling in a 15-20 foot room and then build that rig in the middle so then you could rock it out.  Otherwise I would use a triple monitor rig with three 28" monitors and then adhere them to the frame so as you're driving the screens tilt and turn with you.

[TopJimmyCooks]

1. Subscribe 
2. I'm really surprised by all the concern about LucasArts coming after a few handmade mini star wars cabs/kits/whatever possibly being sold, or a fan made speeder bike interfaced to an LA licensed game. 

Does anybody have an example of LA shutting down a fan project? Or a fan project being monetized without licensing?  I'm interested. 

[Santoro]

I doubt they care about one-offs like this.  Don't try to sell it though.

[Vigo]

A remake of Maniac Mansion and Zak McKracken were shut down. Of course they were both distributing a product.

[Rando]

First thing that popped into my head when I saw this,
one of those clear screen teleprompter things.

Maybe have it towards the front of the bike, or even closer, depending on size.  Maybe it folds down when not in use, pops up when you want it.  Because it's clear (mostly?) it wouldn't look out of place really and would kinda resemble a virtual HUD or something to that effect.

I don't know how good of an actually PICTURE you can project onto one of things, but that's what I'm thinking, and would be exclusive to the speeder, regardless of where you placed it.

Like the ones advertised here:  http://www.telepromptermirror.com/speechteleprompter.htm

Like this:

[Le Chuck]

If I was to go with an invisible monitor route I'd just mod monitor glasses into a scout trooper helmet. This solution would combine the geekiness of VR SW and Arcade gaming. It would probably be fatal in a dose that high.

Edit:  Said the above jokingly and now can't get it out of my head.  Feature creep is setting in, I hate the brain storm phase as I get delusions of build grandeur. 

[Ond]

Been giving this some thought - Vigo style.  For a floating effect there's a few things you could do, mount the bike on a single black powder coated column which in turn rests on a black surface/large disk say 5 feet in radius - something like Linoleum which can be rolled up and transported.  At the right height from most angles the bike will appear to float.  Mount the bike onto the column using a hidden, modern rocking horse style assembly to allow some forward/back lateral movement. Add some stiff springs for say an inch or two of vertical 'give'.  Combine with a Buttkicker transducer under the saddle and a couple of speedy linear actuators ($$$$  ) and you got a feedback system that combined with a projected image could work really well. Got you thinking?

[yotsuya]

I'll say this about you, Chuck, when you get an idea, you get an IDEA. 

[saint]

Saint's seldom right when he disagrees with me, so take that into consideration.  In his pics, he's got an entire room devoted to that projector.  (Or at least one end of it)  Are you really going to make a Star Wars toy the one and only thing going on in that room?  If you use a flat screen, you can cram that thing anywhere it will fit and it's still playable.

The whole home theater thing centered around projectors is dead.  Uses far too much space and kills any flexibility with room arrangement (you've probably only got one large wall without windows/doors in each room).

Heh.

1. Reading comprehension fail.

2. I disagree. The enjoyment we and visitors get also disagree with you.

3. You're wrong.

4. I said I wouldn't use a projector for his project. See #1.

5. "An entire room dedicated to that projector" is absurd. That's like saying "there's an entire room dedicated to that fridge" or "to that bed" ... The room still works when we want to do other things. *boggle*

6. A bigger HD projector screen, properly sized for viewing distance, is a better experience than a small HD television. Certainly more expensive though. To each their own.

7. See #'s 2 and 3 above.