Author Topic: My first project: PiCade, low cost arcade emulator. (Read 17316 times)

wussie · « **on:** April 30, 2012, 01:13:22 am »

So not too long ago I was doing some research into possible emulators I could run in my car for the kids during long trips. I came across the Raspberry Pi. For those of you who don't know, long story short it's an ARM based computer for $35 ($25 if you get the model A). I ordered one and am expecting it in a few months. While brain storming what I was going to do with my slice of Pi, it came to me I ought to do something with it when I'm not on long road trips with kids in tow. It occurred to me if I was going to already have it setup with a front end to be able to run emulators, it'd be simple to set up an arcade cab using it. That impetus has spurred me to create what will possibly be the lowest budget arcade cabinet ever. I'm trying to decide between $100 and $150. The purists in here may want to turn away now. It aint gonna be pretty. To keep it under budget I've decided (unless someone can point me to a seriously low cost source of arcade control sticks and buttons, and a cheap easy encoder option) to go with cheap USB joysticks. How cheap depends on what budget I want to stick to, and how long I want it to last before I get fed up with the controls. For everyone that didn't turn away, I'd welcome your input at this point. I have a few months to wait till I get the computer itself. My boss at work has an extra CRT TV he's giving me which will serve as the monitor and speakers for the rig (I really hope it has last channel power on) and a friend has some extra wood laying around. I've got everything for the computer aside from powersupply. I've only spent $44 so far. I can either order cheapo USB joysticks (the kind with suction cups on the bottom) and possibly keep the budget under $100, or I can go with something better, like a mayflash USB joystick for $25 each and keep the budget under $150.

Thoughts?

P-chan · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2012, 02:19:09 am »

Plenty of budget (real)sticks out there, even under $10....

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=290

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=371

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=370

capsule · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2012, 05:05:18 am »

Hi Wussie,

"Real" sticks and buttons are cheap and a cheap way to connect them is to use an hacked USB gamepad. I'm pretty sure you can find an old one at some garage sale for a few bucks.

I personally used (btw, hello there, I will present my new projects very soon ;-)) "Thrustmaster Firestorm Digital 3" gamepads, bought them for 8 euros each. They are easy to hack (nice wide tracks to solder on).

You could go for a keyboard hack too but new keyboards have tiny tracks, it's very hard to solder them. BUT, keyboard hack IS the cheapest way to connect arcade controls, you can always find a dead keyboard somewhere.

I also think buying a used cab is cheaper than building your own. I had mine for 50 euros (the monitor was dead but as you said, people are giving CRT TVs or monitors away, that said a friend was moving a gave his 19" CRT monitor to me). Don't forget to consider the tools cost, you need a bunch of tools to build you own and your budget will explode immediately if you don't already have them.

I've been thinking about using a Rasperry Pi computer too in a cab, I think that's the future of retrogaming ;-)

Anyway, good luck with your project, I'm curious to see how a Pi can handle mame or other emulators.

johncl · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2012, 06:45:39 am »

Great idea, I am also expecting a R-Pi and is also planning to use it either for C64 emulation or Mame. I have always wanted to do a real full standup Donkey Kong machine, but I am tempted into making a small bartop one instead using the Pi and a cheap and used 4:3 15" LCD. If you get Mame compiled and running well for the R-Pi, please keep us posted here as I would love to get hold of some compiled binaries for that. For controls I was thinking of dismantling/mounting some old digital joystick for an 8bit system (one with microswitches), preferabely something with a low stick (like the Donkey Kong one). The CP would ofc be shrunk as well, but wide enough to still be able to play it well.

JayB · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2012, 08:07:04 am »

Quote from: capsule on April 30, 2012, 05:05:18 am

I personally used (btw, hello there, I will present my new projects very soon ;-)) "Thrustmaster Firestorm Digital 3" gamepads, bought them for 8 euros each. They are easy to hack (nice wide tracks to solder on).

Sorry to hijack but, when you say easy to hack, how easy on the thrustmaster? Looking for an alternative to the minipac and have seen hacks on joypads done but some require drilling or a bit more work than others do. Was it just a case of soldering wires to LRUD and then buttons?

not_so_handy · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2012, 08:31:28 am »

I have never heard about this r-pi but it definitely looks interesting. I may have to get on the bandwagon

DrChek · « **Reply #6 on:** April 30, 2012, 08:32:30 am »

What about a ZD Encoder. Less than $15.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=114744.0

kahlid74 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2012, 10:10:58 am »

I love the idea, but you've got some serious issues to work out. The first is running MAME on the arm set. One version of MAME exists for ARM and we've gotten it working on the Pi Dev kit, but it's kooky. Additionally we've yet to see how games actually emulate out. Then you've got your USB control pads. This ain't no easy thing. You've got to remember that you'll be running a version of Linux on the Pi that is probably super streamlined and won't have any USB drivers and again, most of those cheap USB game pads are windows compatible and may not work in all Linux builds. So you're probably going to have to compile some custom USB encoders so you can get those plugged in and going.

Here's what I'm trying to say. I love the idea, and I love that everyone is super excited about the Pi but realistically it's going to be a while before we have a working model. If you can wait a year then this is the way to go. But if you want to do this now, go with a cheap ITX build or a Netbook off ebay. Super cheap, can run Windows XP and it'll stay somewhere close to your price range.

Again, I love the idea, I just think we as a community are moving way to fast on Pi when it's a complete unknown.

wussie · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2012, 12:18:11 pm »

Quote from: DrChek on April 30, 2012, 08:32:30 am

What about a ZD Encoder. Less than $15.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=114744.0

I looked at the ZD and the iPac VE, I'd probably go with the iPac VE, since it looks like I'd need 2 ZD encoders. I want this to be a 2 player cab. I've looked into the controls aspect for a bit, if I buy an ipac VE for 37 and a 2 player stick and button package for 40 that leaves me with less than 30 bucks for paint, power supply, and anything else that may come up.

Quote

I also think buying a used cab is cheaper than building your own. I had mine for 50 euros (the monitor was dead but as you said, people are giving CRT TVs or monitors away, that said a friend was moving a gave his 19" CRT monitor to me). Don't forget to consider the tools cost, you need a bunch of tools to build you own and your budget will explode immediately if you don't already have them.

I've got the tools, minus the slotter bit for tmolding, though I've yet to decide if I will use any on this build. It'd be nice to have that extra little bit of appearance, but only if the budget will allow it. Aside from that I have access to chop saws, router, jig, circular saw, and a multitude of hand tools for woodworking and an entire machine shop where I work for metal.

Nephasth · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2012, 12:29:31 pm »

The trick to staying within budget is to not have one.

Santoro · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2012, 12:35:20 pm »

Quote from: Nephasth on April 30, 2012, 12:29:31 pm

The trick to staying within budget is to not have one.

This has always worked for me.

wussie · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2012, 01:19:01 pm »

Quote from: johncl on April 30, 2012, 06:45:39 am

Great idea, I am also expecting a R-Pi and is also planning to use it either for C64 emulation or Mame. I have always wanted to do a real full standup Donkey Kong machine, but I am tempted into making a small bartop one instead using the Pi and a cheap and used 4:3 15" LCD. If you get Mame compiled and running well for the R-Pi, please keep us posted here as I would love to get hold of some compiled binaries for that. For controls I was thinking of dismantling/mounting some old digital joystick for an 8bit system (one with microswitches), preferabely something with a low stick (like the Donkey Kong one). The CP would ofc be shrunk as well, but wide enough to still be able to play it well.

I'll keep you apprised as I go. I like the cheap lcd idea, be careful though the pi doesn't have VGA out. Just hdmi and RCA. If I get it running well I'll offer tars of my emulators and an image, sans roms of my entire OS.

wussie · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2012, 01:31:17 pm »

Quote from: kahlid74 on April 30, 2012, 10:10:58 am

I love the idea, but you've got some serious issues to work out. The first is running MAME on the arm set. One version of MAME exists for ARM and we've gotten it working on the Pi Dev kit, but it's kooky. Additionally we've yet to see how games actually emulate out. Then you've got your USB control pads. This ain't no easy thing. You've got to remember that you'll be running a version of Linux on the Pi that is probably super streamlined and won't have any USB drivers and again, most of those cheap USB game pads are windows compatible and may not work in all Linux builds. So you're probably going to have to compile some custom USB encoders so you can get those plugged in and going.

Here's what I'm trying to say. I love the idea, and I love that everyone is super excited about the Pi but realistically it's going to be a while before we have a working model. If you can wait a year then this is the way to go. But if you want to do this now, go with a cheap ITX build or a Netbook off ebay. Super cheap, can run Windows XP and it'll stay somewhere close to your price range.

Again, I love the idea, I just think we as a community are moving way to fast on Pi when it's a complete unknown.

I've looked at atom based itx builds in the past. If I were to do this the way I really want to that would be the way I'd go. I realize that I'm jumping in early in the pi game. Sound drivers are still alpha. I don't mind compiling my own from source, and if I can blaze a trail for others, I'll feel as though I could contribute in some small way to the hobby. Turn key solution this ain't, but a cheap time sink it is.

kahlid74 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2012, 02:03:20 pm »

Quote from: wussie on April 30, 2012, 01:31:17 pm

Quote from: kahlid74 on April 30, 2012, 10:10:58 am
I love the idea, but you've got some serious issues to work out. The first is running MAME on the arm set. One version of MAME exists for ARM and we've gotten it working on the Pi Dev kit, but it's kooky. Additionally we've yet to see how games actually emulate out. Then you've got your USB control pads. This ain't no easy thing. You've got to remember that you'll be running a version of Linux on the Pi that is probably super streamlined and won't have any USB drivers and again, most of those cheap USB game pads are windows compatible and may not work in all Linux builds. So you're probably going to have to compile some custom USB encoders so you can get those plugged in and going.

Here's what I'm trying to say. I love the idea, and I love that everyone is super excited about the Pi but realistically it's going to be a while before we have a working model. If you can wait a year then this is the way to go. But if you want to do this now, go with a cheap ITX build or a Netbook off ebay. Super cheap, can run Windows XP and it'll stay somewhere close to your price range.

Again, I love the idea, I just think we as a community are moving way to fast on Pi when it's a complete unknown.

I've looked at atom based itx builds in the past. If I were to do this the way I really want to that would be the way I'd go. I realize that I'm jumping in early in the pi game. Sound drivers are still alpha. I don't mind compiling my own from source, and if I can blaze a trail for others, I'll feel as though I could contribute in some small way to the hobby. Turn key solution this ain't, but a cheap time sink it is.

That's the spirit to have. I just wanted to be sure no one was expecting a turn-key solution. We'll be toying with Pi for a year or two before anything comes to fruition.

jammin0 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2012, 05:34:00 pm »

from a driver standpoint, wouldn't it save you loads of time to hack an old keyboard for the encoder and then use joystick controls. If not then you are trying to get your gamepads working which is one more step. USB only on the raspberry pi right? No ps2?

wussie · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2012, 06:06:57 pm »

The more I think about it, the more I want to go with a keyboard hack. If I can get a usb keyboard for free I'd stay in budget. Yes, the pi is usb only. Think of it more like a smart phone than a pc really.

jammin0 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 30, 2012, 06:21:34 pm »

I have mame on my ipad and iphone which the specs of the raspberry pi are closer to my older iphone. It does however have a pretty decent NES, SNES, and Mame emulators already. Can those port over from IOS? I bet you could make a pretty cool handheld with the right software.

wussie · « **Reply #17 on:** April 30, 2012, 06:44:11 pm »

I've got a few emulators on my phone and tablet as well. Either porting those or compiling from source it should all be possible.

johncl · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2012, 05:49:31 am »

While I wait for my R-Pi I got a Via Epia CN13000 board that I hope to dust off and run mame on. Anyone got any experience with this? I only need it for older vertical games like Donkey Kong, Pac-Man etc. I am going to try Puppy Arcade now but I guess I would prefer an installed OS of sorts, preferably something free (Linux) that runs well on the Via board. I guess if they get Mame running on R-Pi, the Via board shouldnt have any problem on it. I was surprised at how well it run on my Asus Transformer Android tablet so it should work fine for older games I hope.

Drnick · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2012, 07:54:32 am »

You could always try freedos on it. superfast boot times. Not sure what frontend would work best with it though, haven't had to go near a dos based machine in about 10 years

The only one that jumps to mind is ArcadeOS.

AlanS17 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 02, 2012, 08:08:46 am »

Considering the size of the board and the fact that it has HDMI out, I think its a prefect candidate for building directly into a portable control panel that can be plugged into any TV at will. I like the idea, but I'm waiting to see how the software side of things shapes up.

Edit: oh! I just had a thought. The base unit could be single player and then additional players could plug into the base unit. So you're never playing with more than you need!

kahlid74 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 02, 2012, 08:24:45 am »

Quote from: jammin0 on April 30, 2012, 06:21:34 pm

I have mame on my ipad and iphone which the specs of the raspberry pi are closer to my older iphone. It does however have a pretty decent NES, SNES, and Mame emulators already. Can those port over from IOS? I bet you could make a pretty cool handheld with the right software.

This isn't really possible and kind of not smart. You would look to "adapt" something from the Linux world, which the iOS world has no ties too. So if it doesn't exist in the Linux world, you'd then need to write it from scratch. Additionally we're talking about ARM here, and not the latest ARM, but an older version of ARM which has compatibility problems with stuff in the Linux world. I will say however the Linux world is really stepping up around the Pi trying to help compatibility.

Uncle Monkey · « **Reply #22 on:** May 02, 2012, 08:42:39 am »

Quote from: AlanS17 on May 02, 2012, 08:08:46 am

Considering the size of the board and the fact that it has HDMI out, I think its a prefect candidate for building directly into a portable control panel that can be plugged into any TV at will. I like the idea, but I'm waiting to see how the software side of things shapes up.

Edit: oh! I just had a thought. The base unit could be single player and then additional players could plug into the base unit. So you're never playing with more than you need!

This is EXACTLY my plan, project thread is in my sig. CP will be usable on PC, PS3, NES, SNES, Gamecube, Wii and......the raspi for on-the-go gaming.....

jammin0 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 02, 2012, 09:18:51 am »

Quote from: kahlid74 on May 02, 2012, 08:24:45 am

Quote from: jammin0 on April 30, 2012, 06:21:34 pm
I have mame on my ipad and iphone which the specs of the raspberry pi are closer to my older iphone. It does however have a pretty decent NES, SNES, and Mame emulators already. Can those port over from IOS? I bet you could make a pretty cool handheld with the right software.

This isn't really possible and kind of not smart. You would look to "adapt" something from the Linux world, which the iOS world has no ties too. So if it doesn't exist in the Linux world, you'd then need to write it from scratch. Additionally we're talking about ARM here, and not the latest ARM, but an older version of ARM which has compatibility problems with stuff in the Linux world. I will say however the Linux world is really stepping up around the Pi trying to help compatibility.

Makes sense.

wussie · « **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2012, 02:11:29 pm »

Quote from: kahlid74 on May 02, 2012, 08:24:45 am

Quote from: jammin0 on April 30, 2012, 06:21:34 pm
I have mame on my ipad and iphone which the specs of the raspberry pi are closer to my older iphone. It does however have a pretty decent NES, SNES, and Mame emulators already. Can those port over from IOS? I bet you could make a pretty cool handheld with the right software.

This isn't really possible and kind of not smart. You would look to "adapt" something from the Linux world, which the iOS world has no ties too. So if it doesn't exist in the Linux world, you'd then need to write it from scratch. Additionally we're talking about ARM here, and not the latest ARM, but an older version of ARM which has compatibility problems with stuff in the Linux world. I will say however the Linux world is really stepping up around the Pi trying to help compatibility.

there is already talk of getting android gingerbread running on the pi. Also source code from the android emulators might br able to be used in debian or fedora both have rpi varients. Simple it won't be. I'll let everyone know

Uncle Monkey · « **Reply #25 on:** May 02, 2012, 02:31:55 pm »

I volunteer for BETA testing, my raspi is expected to ship 18 September 2012.....

yotsuya · « **Reply #26 on:** May 02, 2012, 02:34:57 pm »

I got an email that my Pi will ship the week of June 18th.

404 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 02, 2012, 02:42:37 pm »

FYI linux is already available for the pi and more will be on their way including ArchLinuxArm. ChromeOS has also just been ported to the pi but not available to the public along with a few stand alone games like quake.

I stopped keeping up with the raspberry pi mainly because i couldn't get one. Apparently, only "l33t kewl c0derz" were able to get one first. I guess i wasn't cool enough to get in line. From what i can remember, The issue with mame has nothing to do with it actually being able to be compiled, rather being able to run efficiently. The 2D drivers for the SOC processor uses is proprietary and last i remember, it was pretty poor. A demonstration of The Gimp was shown with some awful results in terms of 2d performance. Perhaps older builds of Mame for *Nix can run decently however, newer builds using SDL may not. Either way, a proper, third party driver implementation may be required.

wussie · « **Reply #28 on:** May 03, 2012, 11:56:30 am »

Many of the drivers are still in alpha stages. Sound performance is pretty poor at the moment. Hissing and crackling, and if you change volume too quickly it crashes the system. I expect by June/July when I am supposed to receive my pi that many of the driver issues will be somewhat addressed.

wussie · « **Reply #29 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:16:41 am »

I managed to snag a keyboard for free for the build, bonus is that it has a built in USB hub! It's almost a shame I'm going to rip it apart to wire the CP together!

Not bad for a free keyboard, build is still at $44 spent.

Silas (son of Silas) · « **Reply #30 on:** May 29, 2012, 04:11:39 pm »

Quote from: pinballjim on April 30, 2012, 09:35:15 am

Let us know when you guys actually have a Pi in hand.

3 guys in my office were playing with theirs today.

they look pretty cool. We had them running the LXDE desktop. I'm impressed.

P-chan · « **Reply #31 on:** May 29, 2012, 11:20:34 pm »

Quote from: Silas (son of Silas) on May 29, 2012, 04:11:39 pm

Quote from: pinballjim on April 30, 2012, 09:35:15 am
Let us know when you guys actually have a Pi in hand.

3 guys in my office were playing with theirs today.

they look pretty cool. We had them running the LXDE desktop. I'm impressed.

I got the go ahead to order mine last week, should be here in late June. I'm planning something similar to what AlanS17 mentioned, a portable MAME CP with the RPi integrated into the unit, a single player CP with a couple external USB ports for gamepads for players 2-4 to plug in.....

wussie · « **Reply #32 on:** May 30, 2012, 01:11:40 am »

I ordered mine without the go ahead, their website says it should ship middle of next month, but my last email from them said september... I'm not holding my breath, but I am getting pretty excited to get this thing!

kahlid74 · « **Reply #33 on:** June 08, 2012, 01:50:58 pm »

Received my Pi from Element14. The other guys have confirmed it's been shipped too so I should have the second by Monday. As soon as this Sev 1 is resolved I'm going to plug it in downstairs and get it rolling with MAME. I'll let ya know what I see.

kahlid74 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 08, 2012, 06:43:31 pm »

I paid $35 bucks flat. Shipping was free for some reasons from Element 14. Shipping from the other dudes was like $2 bucks.

I already came across a bunch of gotchas with it so I'll create a post in the main forums with it's info.

CoryBee · « **Reply #35 on:** June 08, 2012, 06:54:44 pm »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110687176621

P-chan · « **Reply #36 on:** June 09, 2012, 02:38:24 am »

Quote from: kahlid74 on June 08, 2012, 06:43:31 pm

I paid $35 bucks flat. Shipping was free for some reasons from Element 14. Shipping from the other dudes was like $2 bucks.

I already came across a bunch of gotchas with it so I'll create a post in the main forums with it's info.

[img width=640 height=856]http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t54/Kahlid74/GAMKEPi/pi1.jpg[img]

[img width=640 height=856]http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t54/Kahlid74/GAMKEPi/pi2.jpg[img]

I have one that should be arriving any day now, please post some details or link to the new thread!

404 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 09, 2012, 08:50:42 am »

I've pretty much given up immediate hope of getting one in a timely manner. I think I'll just stick to using miniITX boards for now. You can get an older, second hand ITX unit for just as cheap and twice as strong these days. They would still fit a vast majority of projects.

The pi would be awesome with one of the tiny minimus powered encoders though.

kahlid74 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 10, 2012, 09:57:33 pm »

The Pi's performance in Arch Linux is fantastic. Snappy and responsive but the performance in Ubuntu with a GUI can be challenging sometimes. Running Advanced MAME on Ubuntu is hit or miss with most games and it's been done a bunch of times by people.

My current forward momentum with the Pi is to use Arch Linux with MAME(Advanced/SDL/X/Etc.) on OpenGL to make use of the graphics processor. If this can be done, it should be able to play 99% of the games reliably. If it can't, Pi isn't really an option for MAME machines if you want consistency with any game played.

Uncle Monkey · « **Reply #39 on:** June 10, 2012, 11:22:07 pm »

I'm so happy that LINUX-smart people are blazing this trail.

So now work really hard and try and get it figured out by September.....when I get mine.


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