Awards Project

[Le Chuck]

Okay so a few of us have started bouncing around ideas to recognize BYOACs for contributions to the hobby.  This is different than the Hall of Fame because it could be done by category and will have a cleaner presentation.

I'm thinking that this would be done in three phases:

1)Nominations:  30 days thread window for projects/hacks/cabs/code given to the community within a certain timeframe.  Any user can nominate in any category providing the nominated project meets the criteria

2)Consideration by a yet to be determined counsel of members

3)Presentation of winners and runner up with critique of practices, implimentation, and lessons learned

Any interest?

[Le Chuck]

List of potential categories:

Standard size cabinet
Cocktail
Bartop
Mini
Fightstick
Non Standard (think DrVenture's Arquadium)
Hack or Mod
Art
Lighting
Theme
How-to thread
Utility (code)
Automation
Refurb
Contribution to the Forum (kinda like a lifetime achievement type deal)
Wiring
Built

[jimmy2x2x]

Love it!

Would like to see a rat-cab category, cabs build for peanuts with what you have lying around.

[ark_ader]

Totally! 

[Le Chuck]

Rat-cab is a sweet idea, i love those sleeper builds that come out of nowhere for pennies.  

I'm thinking a gold space invader and a silver space invader icon for awards.  Nothing too flashy, small icon, little 3D effect, that's all.  All winners get the same icon and they are free to use it in their posts/signatures as they see fit or not at all.  

I'm also thinking about creating a user profile just for the project so it isn't tied to anyone and council members share that user profile for posting during phase two and three.  That way it isn't Le Chuck giving some guy an award but this non entity X.  After the council is desolved the council chair would change the password and bed the profile until the next time.  If the council chair passes the gavel he just passes the profile at the same time so the project can have legs so to speak.    

[DaveMMR]

I think it is a very good idea except maybe also have an All-Around Best Project category akin to "Best Picture". And the one thing about the old Mameys was there there was much predictability. The wide array of categories does indeed remedy this a little bit. Also, it always looked like there was only one entry with split opinions instead of a larger pool of entries narrowed down by voting. Will you be highlighting (albeit to a lesser extent) the runner-ups?

[Howard_Casto]

I had a different idea of what you wanted when you suggested this in another thread.  I thought you wanted to review all cabinets (or all that are submitted, whatever) and give awards to those who were reviewed the highest, not seek out cabinets just to point out how great they are.  

IMHO it's only useful if it is explained, in detail WHY they are great.  Saying "The artwork is great, so I liked it"  simply isn't enough.  Things have to be picked apart in explained like the button placement or the layout in general... the overall functionality of the cab, asthetic things like the bezel to monitor ratio and other annoyingly boring things like that.  In terms of look artistically minded people can understand why one cab looks great and another doesn't instinctually, those who don't have that gift, unfortunately need their hand held a little more.  If you goal really is to educate, then you need to review.

Think of a game review... a game review isn't "I liked this game so we'll rate it highly" or "This game sucked... 0 out 5 "  they go into detail about all the things right and all the things wrong with the game both from an artistic standpoint and a technical standpoint.  Professional game critics don't just review the good games either, they review as many as they can.

[Howard_Casto]

Actually, I would suggest a 20 point scale.  Every cab, prior to review has an automatic 10.... that's just for having a functional mame cab.  After that, one point is deducated for any "errors" in the design or execution and one point is added for anything that was done exceptionally well or any unique and well done features. 

So most of your cabs would fall in the 8-12 range.. definately nothing to be ashamed of, but nothing all that special either.  Your award winning cabs would be in the 15-20 range with 5 -10 really good things unqiue to the cab, your "cautionary tales" cabs would be 5 or below. 

And let me tell you getting below a 5 would be damned near impossible.... I know we rag on some of these strange ebay finds, but most of them don't have more than 2 or 3 things wrong with them.

[Le Chuck]

I didn't start this thread because I had a master plan thought out but because the idea came up and I thought it warranted further separate discussion so any and all recommendations are welcome. 

The panel/counsel/reviewers would need a guideline by which to review the project and that guideline shouldn't be a secret.  The identity of the lead reviewer for a category should be if only to protect the reviewer from putting up with disenting opion in other threads.

Whether that is a point system or some other scale is up for debate.  I don't really envision this as a game style review.  For one, the forum serves that purpose on it's own already in my opinion.  Page views, comments, and longeivity, and questions asked by other users tell the builder and everyone else how their cab has been received.  For two this project would be an assload of work for some dedicated volunteers for a few weeks every year.  I don't see the utility of having it be an all the time thing here on the forum.  If somebody wanted to start a cab review website then by all means but I personally wouldn't submit my own cab for outside grading (yes I know that's exactly what I do by submitting here but it is inherently different).

I see huge value in going to a thread that has good analytical review of what is right with some projects, how it was done, and how it pushes the hobby forward so if a new user is interested in light up buttons he can go to the 2011 Lighting Awards link on the X stickied thread and see how and why it was done well. 

I absolutely support indept analysis of runners up because the main idea would be to distill the best practices of a certain category into one location. 

In the end this is a form of incentivising thread documentation and compilation.  If it can generate the spread of how to that is ideal. 
 

[Generic Eric]

So this would be like the MAMEY?  I've submitted stuff to them, but didn't get an acknowledgment that it was received.  It made me wonder how active that was.

[AtomSmasher]

So this would be like the MAMEY?  I've submitted stuff to them, but didn't get an acknowledgment that it was received.  It made me wonder how active that was.

I don't think the Mamey's have been active since 2009.

http://mameys.arcadecontrols.com/awards.html

[Le Chuck]

Mamey = fried chicken

Besides, I'm with Dave, they tended towards the predictable but yes, this gets to a similar end as the Mamey but I think can provide a secondary service and if we tie it into the forum perhaps it can have sustainability.    

Edit:

I went back through the Mamey site and there are a lot of comments like this:

...it is a modification on the original cocktail design, plus it's like a freaky transformer, and it's shiny.

Which is fun, and totally true, but isn't how the judge's commentary would need to be to have the project be educational.  The cab referenced in that quote is Pott's cocktail.  It's stunning, but it's a cocktail with one side by side CP eliminating cocktail mode from a cocktail.  Does that make or break it, no, but it should be referenced and the pros and cons should be considered.  Same deal with the some of the button placements.  What happens when we judge <academically weigh the merits of> this cocktail against other cocktails?  That sort of review might give a browsing forum member the springboard to go into unknown territory that can split the difference between Pott's great build and a more classic cocktail build that is equally well executed.      

[DaveMMR]

I went back through the Mamey site and there are a lot of comments like this:

...it is a modification on the original cocktail design, plus it's like a freaky transformer, and it's shiny.

Which is fun, and totally true, but isn't how the judge's commentary would need to be to have the project be educational.  The cab referenced in that quote is Pott's cocktail.  It's stunning, but it's a cocktail with one side by side CP eliminating cocktail mode from a cocktail.  Does that make or break it, no, but it should be referenced and the pros and cons should be considered.  Same deal with the some of the button placements.  What happens when we judge <academically weigh the merits of> this cocktail against other cocktails?  That sort of review might give a browsing forum member the springboard to go into unknown territory that can split the difference between Pott's great build and a more classic cocktail build that is equally well executed.      

It's funny, but I think half the criticism levied against it would be negated by reclassifying it as a unique candy cab as opposed to a cocktail. But, yes, that type of critique was something I had in mind and not just focusing on the pretty colors. And it's funny you mentioned the button placement, that's the first thing I saw (the two random buttons towards the bottom of the panel). It's those little things that really separate the good cabs from the great cabs and should be explored, explaining why it may detract from the design.

(BTW: Not trying to take away anything from Pott's award. It is definitely deserving.)

[Le Chuck]

Dave, I'm right there with you.  It's too easy to pick apart an average cab or a bad cab and say this could be done better.  The builder is probably sitting back saying "No ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- sherlock, this is my first time, how about some slack" but I think that taking what the community says are a lot of great cabs or ideas and looking at them against each other give us a chance to say "this method of mounting speakers gives a much cleaner appearance" or "This is a great example of a cheap home made marquee retainer that looks professional and doesn't at all detract from the cab"

The community doesn't need a counsel to make those judgements on their behalf but it will localize a lot of good information and it will help our all star builders consider different ways of doing things... maybe somebody will even agree and decide to improve their cab and get even more enjoyment out of it. 

I was contemplating whether the first cycle of this should go all the way back to antiquity or just pick up with the last 12 months.  I'm really thinking that to be manageable and contemporary that we can't go any further back then about two years and after that pick up on a yearly type cycle. 

[DaveMMR]

I was contemplating whether the first cycle of this should go all the way back to antiquity or just pick up with the last 12 months.  I'm really thinking that to be manageable and contemporary that we can't go any further back then about two years and after that pick up on a yearly type cycle. 

I'm actually on the fence as well.  It would be cool to look at some of the most noteworthy projects of all time and re-examine them, including some really groundbreaking projects like PacMamea, Neon Mame or Roswell 88201, but would it be a pain to manage or unfair to the newer projects?

[yaksplat]

So, Group 1, pre-2011
Group 2, 2011

[Donkbaca]

No need to revisit the old ones, that's what the HOF thread is for.

I think a yearly one is a good idea, could get some of the old farts on here that haven't built anything in a while to actually build again, could inspire creativity, etc.

Here is my criticism of your list though -

Standard size cabinet
Cocktail
Bartop
Mini

I think that most are standard sized cabinets, not that many cocktails get built, I would have maybe best standard size - CRT, best Standard sized - LCD and then non-standard sized cab.

Fightstick

I don't see a lot of fight stick builds, and this is more of a Shoryuken sort of thing.

Non Standard (think DrVenture's Arquadium)

I like this one, for things like the Doc Venture's and coffee table builds and the armoirecade.  At one point, Knievels woody would have been here, and now its almost standard.

Hack or Mod

I find the hacks and mods the most entertaining and informative of all posts and the most interesting projects

Art
Lighting
Theme

I could do without these.Or maybe just have a theme category, as that incorporates the other two.

How-to thread

I could do without this, since there is a ton of stuff already out there and on the wiki.  Anything that is new and cool and documented would likely fall into another category

Utility (code)

This would be cool

Automation

In my mind a part of the hack/mod category

Refurb

More of a KLOV thing in my opinion.  Not that interested

Contribution to the Forum (kinda like a lifetime achievement type deal)

dig this

Wiring
Built

Best wiring - I am on the face about.  What do you mean by built? I think there should be a "build thread of the year" award.  Well documented build threads are great.

I think there should also be a Cab of the YEar.

I don't think we need that many categories though.  THere really aren't that many builds, maybe 3 - 6 a month or so that get documented.  With that many categories it would feel like handing out little league trophies.

[Le Chuck]

Donkbaca +1

Good recommendations.  I notice when I write I tend to zap all the fun out of anything and turn it into some sort of dreary academic pursuit, and while this has a component of this it also needs to be interesting and amusing.  I can get behind most of your category recommendations.  Definetly don't want this to be a participation award.  I still like the idea of splitting up the cab builds, how about this

Standard
Cocktail and Bartop -I'm torn about combining these.  Leave it to smarter bodies to determine
Non Standard - cabs more easily defined by what they aren't (jukes in here as well?)
Hack or Mod - wiz mini's, automation elements, controller creations like the new 720 joy, or the OND/secretsquirrel button mods for example
Theme - aestics, visual balance
Implementation - CP and lighting wiring, LED integration, woodcraft/joinery, plexi work, technique award for a whole build or a portion of a build worth highlighting
Utility - this can be a peice of code (DaOld Man and Nitz come to my mind) or can be a service or product that really enables the hobby also (Breakout cables or even button decals)
Contribution - helpful forum members recognized for their dedicated commitment to lending a hand.   

I'm not really for an overall best cab personally but if the "academy" decided that one project takes the cake overall then whom am I to gainsay.  I think it should be a year to year decision, kinda like an extra.  If there is a project that crosses several categories and doesn't necessarily win any specific one but deserves recognition that would be awesome.   

I agree to just start with 2011 and let the HOF take care of those further back only because there is no way we could do justice to the older builds. 

I'm also not sold on a "winner." Maybe after nominations the committee select the three or four best and presents them ensemble as most influential of 2011 in <Category>.

I'm also keeping an eye on the ticker up top showing how many people don't think this is a good idea.  I don't want to help create anything that is going to alienate anyone but I know you can't please all of the people all of the time. 

[Donkbaca]

I could get behind that.  Maybe instead of awards, do a "best of the year" thread

[Le Chuck]

I could get behind that.  Maybe instead of awards, do a "best of the year" thread

I'm down.  We should clean up the definitions of the categories.  Anybody care to take a stab at one or all? 

There needs to be conversation about the logistics of phase two.  After nominations how are reviewers invited/selected/nominated?  Do they get a private thread like PnR to discuss the builds or just do it though PM?  I think nominating reviews is fair and probably a best practice.  Do they have to be seconded?  Do we cut off a 5 or 10?  Hrm...

[jimmy2x2x]

I like the idea of public nomination open to all members (maybe 6 months old+)

nominees could then complete a template of the cab, something like

side profile shot
front profile shot
3/4 view
control panel
and 3 user shots, highlighting best features - art, wiring, automation etc
and optional video

this would be a nice showcase of the work presented in a uniformed style

once all nominated templates are complete, public voting to decide the winner

[DaveMMR]

So idea - feel free to like on it or hate on it:

If at all possible, it'd be cool to have a separate forum (that's something up to Saint, of course), with a stickied topic explaining the criteria.  Individual threads would be cab/project nominations (and for which category/ies it would be nominated for).  Members could then post a synopsis, weighing it's strengths and maybe pointing out some weaknesses and then assign a score value*.  Commenting on or arguing with other people's synopsis/review would be strictly verboten.  After a year or so, we gather those nominees, and announce winners in a special thread or other section.  Maybe a special token or something for their profile could be awarded.  This way, everyone's involved and it's easy to find.

(* I actually kind of dug Howard's scoring system; I gave my own cab an 8 due to unfortunate painting issues. But whatever would work.)

[Generic Eric]

How about a submission/verification process.  Here is what I am thinking.

By submitting a project to a special sub-forum, the Builder agrees to a specific level of criticism.  The project announcements thread should exist the way it is.

The submitter must declare type of project (Upright, cocktail, Cockpit, etc)

A baseline criteria for each type of project is predefined.  Such as the "Project Arcade cabinet." For example, to eliminate "gotcha's" specify that you can't have a 27" wide cabinet with a 15" monitor.

Let's not have a rust bucket with mis-matched VIN @ the Barrett Jackson auction.

[Vigo]

The only way I would be down with an official best of is if it was open to any members voting anonymously. I think a judging panel or an elite circle of experts would ruin it for me. At the same time, I don't want people with low post counts to feel like their opinion isn't as valuable.

As far as categories go, my only category nomination is best "new feature" I think there are original brilliant idea's out there that inevitably get copied and improved upon. Which is great! We should build off each other's ideas.   I just think it is appropriate to have a category to give recognition to the person who started and inspired that great idea. Even though other people came along and put it into sexier machines.

I also like Dave's profile token idea for award winning cabs.  

[drventure]

Sounds cool to me, but what do you do about all the really cool multi-year projects running around? 

Or did I miss that in the thread?

[DaveMMR]

Sounds cool to me, but what do you do about all the really cool multi-year projects running around? 

I suppose whenever it's officially complete would be when it's eligible.

[Le Chuck]

Sounds cool to me, but what do you do about all the really cool multi-year projects running around? 

I suppose whenever it's officially complete would be when it's eligible.

^+1

The only way I would be down with an official best of is if it was open to any members voting anonymously. I think a judging panel or an elite circle of experts would ruin it for me. At the same time, I don't want people with low post counts to feel like their opinion isn't as valuable.

+1.  I would amend this to be:  winner are determined by open forum voting.  Commentary on winners should be done by nominated commentators so that there is some standardization. 

How about a submission/verification process.  Here is what I am thinking.

By submitting a project to a special sub-forum, the Builder agrees to a specific level of criticism.  The project announcements thread should exist the way it is.

The submitter must declare type of project (Upright, cocktail, Cockpit, etc)

A baseline criteria for each type of project is predefined.  Such as the "Project Arcade cabinet." For example, to eliminate "gotcha's" specify that you can't have a 27" wide cabinet with a 15" monitor.

Let's not have a rust bucket with mis-matched VIN @ the Barrett Jackson auction.

I am more for the community nominating builds so it's more popular and ties into a best of year X type of deal.  A lot of projects exist in this state on Project Announce I think.

So idea - feel free to like on it or hate on it:

If at all possible, it'd be cool to have a separate forum (that's something up to Saint, of course), with a stickied topic explaining the criteria.  Individual threads would be cab/project nominations (and for which category/ies it would be nominated for).  Members could then post a synopsis, weighing it's strengths and maybe pointing out some weaknesses and then assign a score value*.  Commenting on or arguing with other people's synopsis/review would be strictly verboten.  After a year or so, we gather those nominees, and announce winners in a special thread or other section.  Maybe a special token or something for their profile could be awarded.  This way, everyone's involved and it's easy to find.

(* I actually kind of dug Howard's scoring system; I gave my own cab an 8 due to unfortunate painting issues. But whatever would work.)

Open voting combined with closed doors analysis/proof reading of commentary and/or post layout with the final open reveal of winners with the "expert (snicker) commentary" ? 

Jimmy, the builder will definitely be pestered for more information. 

[Howard_Casto]

I think the community should be involved in terms of bringing attention to cabs that might otherwise be over-looked, but their involvement shouldn't be absolute. 

A good cab might not be a popular cab and vice versa..... at some point there is going to have to be some sort of panel... even a ridiculously huge panel that says "no this one doesn't qualify" or "even though nobody mentioned this cab, it's outstanding and we should put it up for review".

Because if we are only going to review via which one is the most popular then one could simply write a script to tally the most viewed cabs/cab threads and be done with it. 


That's why I kind of suggested that every cab be reviewed..... to make sure.  It wouldn't have to be a deal where the reviews were publically seen.... it's just every cab needs to at least be glanced at. 


 

[Le Chuck]

I think the community should be involved in terms of bringing attention to cabs that might otherwise be over-looked, but their involvement shouldn't be absolute. 

I agree.

A good cab might not be a popular cab and vice versa..... at some point there is going to have to be some sort of panel... even a ridiculously huge panel that says "no this one doesn't qualify" or "even though nobody mentioned this cab, it's outstanding and we should put it up for review".

A small (5 to 10 member) panel could thin the nominations down to a manageable representative number while having the authority to include any non recommended gems that they see fit. 

Because if we are only going to review via which one is the most popular then one could simply write a script to tally the most viewed cabs/cab threads and be done with it. 

That's why I kind of suggested that every cab be reviewed..... to make sure.  It wouldn't have to be a deal where the reviews were publically seen.... it's just every cab needs to at least be glanced at. 

I think that for cabs as a finished product it is feasible for the aforementioned panel to take a look at whatever was finished in 2011 for instance but I don't think they can accurately tackle the entire list of categories we've presented.  Perhaps that isn't necessary tho.  Individual panel members will likely have good representative examples for each category in mind when they come to the table.  If they don't see those examples among the BYOAC community recommended then the onus is on the panel member to bring that up for internal review and possible addition. 

I make it sound like a damn inquisition but I am really trying to help design something useful and simple.  If it's a nine to five job to serve as a panel member ain't nobody going to accept their nomination.   

[Generic Eric]

Give this link a check  http://www.thewayiplay.com/mainforum/index.php?topic=1850.0  Its the top 20 on "The Way I Play" forum. 

[yotsuya]

Until Vigo builds the Urkelcade, these awards won't mean a damn thing!

[leapinlew]

Mamey = fried chicken

Besides, I'm with Dave, they tended towards the predictable but yes, this gets to a similar end as the Mamey but I think can provide a secondary service and if we tie it into the forum perhaps it can have sustainability.    

Edit:

I went back through the Mamey site and there are a lot of comments like this:

...it is a modification on the original cocktail design, plus it's like a freaky transformer, and it's shiny.

Which is fun, and totally true, but isn't how the judge's commentary would need to be to have the project be educational.  The cab referenced in that quote is Pott's cocktail.  It's stunning, but it's a cocktail with one side by side CP eliminating cocktail mode from a cocktail.  Does that make or break it, no, but it should be referenced and the pros and cons should be considered.  Same deal with the some of the button placements.  What happens when we judge <academically weigh the merits of> this cocktail against other cocktails?  That sort of review might give a browsing forum member the springboard to go into unknown territory that can split the difference between Pott's great build and a more classic cocktail build that is equally well executed.      

Are you suggesting the judges should have taken a more pragmatic approach to the nominees? The Mameys are supposed to be just a fun award system based on the opinion of a few guys. I think the comment you quoted by Zakk is fine. It's fun and not serious. It's not like people were lined up to discuss the pros and cons of a build.

[shmokes]

What's the point when we all know that there is one particular cab, a long time in the making but recently finished, that will sweep every single category.   

[Le Chuck]

Are you suggesting the judges should have taken a more pragmatic approach to the nominees? The Mameys are supposed to be just a fun award system based on the opinion of a few guys. I think the comment you quoted by Zakk is fine. It's fun and not serious. It's not like people were lined up to discuss the pros and cons of a build.

No, the Mamey's were great and highlighted some really awesome builds in a fun way.  If the group was still active I doubt this conversation would be happening in the same manner.  I think that if something like the Mamey is to be resurrected it's worth discussing a more pragmatic approach.  We're not carving in stone here.  My use of Zakk's quote was to illustrate a different approach and not critize a past event. 

I am definetely not trying to put the Mameys on trial but as you're a [former?] Judge I am very much interested in your opinion and recommended approach. 

[Le Chuck]

What's the point when we all know that there is one particular cab, a long time in the making but recently finished, that will sweep every single category.   

I like OND's cab too, it's cool and orange and curvy and immaculately built, but there is a lot out there that is just as ground breaking as far as builds are concerned.  I think that he has relied heavily on DaOld Man's plugins and previous work for his rotation, I think that while his button mod is pretty fantastic it was been improved upon since by Secret Squirrel and FrancoB's are completly off the chain.  So yeah him done good but there is plenty of great stuff worth recognizing. 

Unless you were talking about the Urkelcade too, in which case I have no argument. 

[Generic Eric]

I imagined him referring to Pixelhugger's Mission Control
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=13118.0

[DaveMMR]

Yeah, I think what Le Chuck is suggesting (and, in a roundabout way, the core of Howard's original thread) is more about seeing WHY great cabs are great or how good cabs could become better. We look at some projects and admire their attractiveness - but it'd be nice to see if "this", "this" and "that" works for everyone? What problems would it present? Why was something done extremely well? What problems were overcome? Etc, etc. etc.

[Le Chuck]

I imagined him referring to Pixelhugger's Mission Control
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=13118.0

Love this build.  Love the video even more. 

Yeah, I think what Le Chuck is suggesting (and, in a roundabout way, the core of Howard's original thread) is more about seeing WHY great cabs are great or how good cabs could become better. We look at some projects and admire their attractiveness - but it'd be nice to see if "this", "this" and "that" works for everyone? What problems would it present? Why was something done extremely well? What problems were overcome? Etc, etc. etc.

+1.  DaveMMR is now my official interpreter.

[CheffoJeffo]

One thing that I think the new folks may not be aware of is the total trainwreck that the HoF became. It seemed to generate a lot more negative energy than CrapMAME ever has. Nice idea, but always seemed to fall apart and cause problems. The existing HoF in the wiki doesn't seem to suffer the same problems, likely because people don't take the time to check the wiki and take less time to edit.

The MAMEys were fun and, like things like this should be, judged by a small group of people who didn't take things too seriously. And I'm not just saying that so I won't get kicked out of the fort.

[jimmy2x2x]

Who else is going to be in the 'small group' of judges?

Will you be voting behind closed doors, or will we be able to see how you score things?

[CheffoJeffo]

Paige's recent ressurgence put another thought into my head -- how do you choose the folks to judge ?

Zakk was an obvious choice due to the sheer number of quality cabinets he put out. Same with Lew.

But what about when you have people with experience who see things differently ... compare, say, Paige (with his sometimes overly-practical approach) to Xouchie, or to Pixel, or to Knievel. I'm pretty sure that none of those folks would consider judging others.

It takes us back to the problems with the original HoF.

[shmokes]

Why not make Chad the judge? He actually judged arcade cabinets professionally for a few years when he was younger.

[Le Chuck]

Paige's recent ressurgence put another thought into my head -- how do you choose the folks to judge ?

Zakk was an obvious choice due to the sheer number of quality cabinets he put out. Same with Lew.

But what about when you have people with experience who see things differently ... compare, say, Paige (with his sometimes overly-practical approach) to Xouchie, or to Pixel, or to Knievel. I'm pretty sure that none of those folks would consider judging others.

It takes us back to the problems with the original HoF.

I would think it's up to the community to nominate judges.  Frankly the most serious aspect of this should probably be judge selection.  

We can take a fairly populist approach, open a forum where everybody can nominate who they think judges should be.  Once time is up on that everyone nominated has to confirm acceptance of nomination.  From there open a voting thread with all the confirmed nominees names.  Put a time limit on it and at the end the 5 or X with the most votes are the panel.  Every year a new panel gets voted.  The nominee with the most votes is the Chair for that year.

Works a lot better than me just pointing at people but is slower.  

  

[Ond]

What's the point when we all know that there is one particular cab, a long time in the making but recently finished, that will sweep every single category.   

I like OND's cab too, it's cool and orange and curvy and immaculately built, but there is a lot out there that is just as ground breaking as far as builds are concerned.  I think that he has relied heavily on DaOld Man's plugins and previous work for his rotation, I think that while his button mod is pretty fantastic it was been improved upon since by Secret Squirrel and FrancoB's are completly off the chain.  So yeah him done good but there is plenty of great stuff worth recognizing. 

Unless you were talking about the Urkelcade too, in which case I have no argument. 

Heh heh, a few things,  Pixelhuggers cabinet would have been the cabinet in question,  my cab is red,  I have never used DaOLD Mans plugins or any other previous work for my rotation design, it's quite differrent stepper motor technology.  That said I probably will be looking at some of the stuff he's done in the future.  Just keeping it accurate bro, other wise all good.  

[Le Chuck]

What's the point when we all know that there is one particular cab, a long time in the making but recently finished, that will sweep every single category.   

I like OND's cab too, it's cool and orange and curvy and immaculately built, but there is a lot out there that is just as ground breaking as far as builds are concerned.  I think that he has relied heavily on DaOld Man's plugins and previous work for his rotation, I think that while his button mod is pretty fantastic it was been improved upon since by Secret Squirrel and FrancoB's are completly off the chain.  So yeah him done good but there is plenty of great stuff worth recognizing. 

Unless you were talking about the Urkelcade too, in which case I have no argument. 

Heh heh, a few things,  Pixelhuggers cabinet would have been the cabinet in question,  my cab is red,  I have never used DaOLD Mans plugins or any other previous work for my rotation design, it's quite differrent stepper motor technology.  That said I probably will be looking at some of the stuff he's done in the future.  Just keeping it accurate bro, other wise all good.   

The fact I thought of yours just shows how much I like it... and that I'm color blind.  I'll ask my automations question over on your thread after I reread it so I don't embarrass myself further 

[Le Chuck]

So we are going to have a competition to determine the judges for a competition?   

No, I've changed my mind.  You pick.

[Generic Eric]

Can this be accomplished similarly to the SMF trader system?  For example, if I wanted my project attached with my profile, I could submit my project, and if someone wanted to comment on my project, they could.  Or perhaps, they could just give a thumbs up or down.  

I'd offer one of my projects up, but neither are complete.  Would anyone in this thread offer their cabinet up for the demo round of how this is gonna go?  Limit the judging to the participants in this thread?

[Vigo]

First person that comes to mind for me as a good judge would be bobA. He has always taken a genuine interest in other people's work. Artwork, design, electronics, he really takes interest in and appreciates all the aspects that go into making a cabinet. 

[Le Chuck]

Can this be accomplished similarly to the SMF trader system?  For example, if I wanted my project attached with my profile, I could submit my project, and if someone wanted to comment on my project, they could.  Or perhaps, they could just give a thumbs up or down.  

I'd offer one of my projects up, but neither are complete.  Would anyone in this thread offer their cabinet up for the demo round of how this is gonna go?  Limit the judging to the participants in this thread?

I started the thread so it wouldn't be good form if I wasn't willing to put my money where my mouth was so to speak.  Darkade is on the chopping block for whoever would like to take a swing.   

[Le Chuck]

First person that comes to mind for me as a good judge would be bobA. He has always taken a genuine interest in other people's work. Artwork, design, electronics, he really takes interest in and appreciates all the aspects that go into making a cabinet. 

I second that. 

[Generic Eric]

Can this be accomplished similarly to the SMF trader system?  For example, if I wanted my project attached with my profile, I could submit my project, and if someone wanted to comment on my project, they could.  Or perhaps, they could just give a thumbs up or down.  

I'd offer one of my projects up, but neither are complete.  Would anyone in this thread offer their cabinet up for the demo round of how this is gonna go?  Limit the judging to the participants in this thread?

I started the thread so it wouldn't be good form if I wasn't willing to put my money where my mouth was so to speak.  Darkade is on the chopping block for whoever would like to take a swing.   

There sure is a lot of sausage making in this thread.   

Presuming that the DARKADE will be reviewed first, do you feel your project announcement thread is sufficient, or would you resubmit it with all the details presented with out other member's comments in between your posts?  As I imagine this, a project that was being judged wouldn't have any commentary until the end. 

[DaveMMR]

Can this be accomplished similarly to the SMF trader system?  For example, if I wanted my project attached with my profile, I could submit my project, and if someone wanted to comment on my project, they could.  Or perhaps, they could just give a thumbs up or down.  

I'd offer one of my projects up, but neither are complete.  Would anyone in this thread offer their cabinet up for the demo round of how this is gonna go?  Limit the judging to the participants in this thread?

I started the thread so it wouldn't be good form if I wasn't willing to put my money where my mouth was so to speak.  Darkade is on the chopping block for whoever would like to take a swing.   

There sure is a lot of sausage making in this thread.   

Presuming that the DARKADE will be reviewed first, do you feel your project announcement thread is sufficient, or would you resubmit it with all the details presented with out other member's comments in between your posts?  As I imagine this, a project that was being judged wouldn't have any commentary until the end. 

Would it be easier to start a new thread with a brief outline and pictures of the Darkade (started by Le Chuck of course) and do a round of reviews there?  Or squeeze it in this thread? And who's submitting their judging commentary?

[Le Chuck]

Well that's kind of a toss up and depends on if it's voluntary or community recommended.  Idealy I wouldn't want to make everybody recreate a post just for the review but I think that a certain level of standardization would be useful.  Maybe have it optional.  "If recommended please open a thread with the following format.  If you decide not to do this we will still review your project just the same but appreciate the help as we have a lot of these to go through"

If somebody wants to recommend a format I'll gladly post.  Here or elsewhere. Format should either be category specific or generic enough to get the pertinent information no matter the category.

Eventually if we decide to go live I'd like to see this have it's own area in the forums as a board or a child board and then a private child board for the currrent panel to make their sausage in private.    

[Generic Eric]

Can this be accomplished similarly to the SMF trader system?  For example, if I wanted my project attached with my profile, I could submit my project, and if someone wanted to comment on my project, they could.  Or perhaps, they could just give a thumbs up or down.  

I'd offer one of my projects up, but neither are complete.  Would anyone in this thread offer their cabinet up for the demo round of how this is gonna go?  Limit the judging to the participants in this thread?

I started the thread so it wouldn't be good form if I wasn't willing to put my money where my mouth was so to speak.  Darkade is on the chopping block for whoever would like to take a swing.   

There sure is a lot of sausage making in this thread.   

Presuming that the DARKADE will be reviewed first, do you feel your project announcement thread is sufficient, or would you resubmit it with all the details presented with out other member's comments in between your posts?  As I imagine this, a project that was being judged wouldn't have any commentary until the end. 

Would it be easier to start a new thread with a brief outline and pictures of the Darkade (started by Le Chuck of course) and do a round of reviews there?  Or squeeze it in this thread? And who's submitting their judging commentary?

I should have just suggested a new thread instead of all those extra words above.

[CheffoJeffo]

FWIW, I think that BobA is one of the most positive contributors here and chimes in to help everybody. He reminds what I *should* be doing here.

Even I don't have the balls to ask him to come in and judge other people's work. He's a good guy -- don't put him on the spot like that.

Has ANYBODY actually asked saint what he thinks ?

[Generic Eric]

Has ANYBODY actually asked saint what he thinks ?

I think he indicated in the crapmame thread that he had an opinion, but was sitting on it for awhile.

* saint has an opinion but is in lurk mode while people comment.

[Generic Eric]

I would like to hold this post for an example of the submission form I referred to earlier.

In a million words or less, explain your inspiration and your project.  Tell us how long you have worked on this.  If it was a Father and Son project, let us know.  If you are restoring your favorite game from the local roller skating rink, let us know.  

1) Declare your style
•   Upright
•   Mini
•   Bartop
•   Cocktail
•   Fightstick
•   Driving
•   Custom

2) You will be reviewed in the following categories.  Be sure to provide details highlighting each of the following aspects of your project:
•   Art
•   Audio
•   Build Quality
•   Lighting
•   Paint job
•   Theme composition (how control panel, front-end, marquee, side-art tie together)
•   Wiring

*The following special categories are available for submissions.
•   Automation
•   Contribution to the Forum (kinda like a lifetime achievement type deal)
•   Hack or Mod
•   Planning documents
•   Restoration
•   Utility (code)

If you have access to a camera or video camera during your build, take as many pictures or videos as possible.  If you are using plans, link to the source.  If you are using original plans, please share them.  

I would also like to hold this post for an explanation of why I thinks this is a good idea, and how I have come to realize that I may have a different idea then Le Chuck and the others.  

In short, my idea is more of a standardization to how the project announcements are made in order to facilitate something like an awards review later on.

[DaveMMR]

Even I don't have the balls to ask him to come in and judge other people's work. He's a good guy -- don't put him on the spot like that.

I agree he's a good guy and I would hope no one thinks if they are nominated for something like this that there's any requirement to accept it. He was nominated, I assume, for the reasons you stated. But if he would not want to do it, I'm sure everyone would respect that 100%.

And Generic Eric, Saint's note was for CrapMAME II, which came off as negative. I hope everyone understands that this is more of a positive critiquing of member's works - not another excuse to rip people's work apart.

[Generic Eric]

Even I don't have the balls to ask him to come in and judge other people's work. He's a good guy -- don't put him on the spot like that.

I agree he's a good guy and I would hope no one thinks if they are nominated for something like this that there's any requirement to accept it. He was nominated, I assume, for the reasons you stated. But if he would not want to do it, I'm sure everyone would respect that 100%.

And Generic Eric, Saint's note was for CrapMAME II, which came off as negative. I hope everyone understands that this is more of a positive critiquing of member's works - not another excuse to rip people's work apart.

I concur.  I have been reading the last few days and saw a string of events that I tied together.  The reddit thread, then the resurrection of the Crapmame II thread, and then this thread.  I see this thread as an opportunity for us, as active members to raise the bar, and lift others up, instead of tearing them down.

[Le Chuck]

  I'm writing discertations here.  My apologies.

I will in the next 48 hours produce a review announce using the aforementioned recommendations and some of my own secret sauce.  I will post to a separate thread with a disclaimer and then link to here natch.  From there we can determine if that format works, how critics could/should look to be helpful, whether this will be an awards type thing or an open submition please help me type thing, and whether or not we should even be pursuing this.  

As for Saint, I'll ask openly:  Saint, whatchya think?  We're not trying to go off the deepend, just work on something that could be of benefit later down the road to the hobby.  Is this in the spirit of the BYOAC and do you mind this kind of thing going in the BYOAC?  

How do you feel about a child board for this so we can explore further without cluttering stuff up?  Thanks - Steve.    

<edit: punctuation>

[Howard_Casto]

Well I think what everybody is going to have to understand (and it should be clear from the strange response that the original thread generated) is that even if you try to be a non-offensive as possible, and treat every entry and likewise every individual with the upmost respect there are always going to be a few that are offended just by the idea of a judging panel and/or are going to be outraged that their personal favorite cab wasn't featured or that a cab that they just don't like was featured.

My personal response to that is that everybody is judged constantly by everyone at everything they create or do, you just aren't handed the results.    So if everyone involved feels strongly that the project would do more good than harm I say go full speed ahead.  If on the other hand there are doubts amoungst the ranks, then I doubt we are ready to handle the kind of complications it could generate.


Nobody wants to intentionally make a flame war, but it's very very hard to give people a list of things they should do to make a fun, playable cab and have them take the advice without examples showing "see if you do things like we described it could turn out amazing.... like this"  Now personally I think it could be just as valuable to highlight a few stinkers, but since the forums are so dead set against it, I'm full steam ahead with analyzing the outstanding ones.

[SammyWI]

I'm kind of torn on this one.  It's really a fairly positive idea.  But it could have lot's of pitfalls.

It's not really my kind of thing, but I hope it works out well.  Good luck.

[Vigo]

FWIW, I think that BobA is one of the most positive contributors here and chimes in to help everybody. He reminds what I *should* be doing here.

Even I don't have the balls to ask him to come in and judge other people's work. He's a good guy -- don't put him on the spot like that.

I agree, but I guess my impression what the "judging" on something like this should be along the lines of showcasing what makes a good project good, not really critiquing or scoring projects at all.

My point of view is that any award thing we do would be a simple pat on the back for a job well done for a few people each year. Follow the KISS rule as much as possible. Take a look back at our awesome work for the year and point out some of the things we did well. Set the bar for another year.

[Howard_Casto]

FWIW, I think that BobA is one of the most positive contributors here and chimes in to help everybody. He reminds what I *should* be doing here.

Even I don't have the balls to ask him to come in and judge other people's work. He's a good guy -- don't put him on the spot like that.

I agree, but I guess my impression what the "judging" on something like this should be along the lines of showcasing what makes a good project good, not really critiquing or scoring projects at all.

My point of view is that any award thing we do would be a simple pat on the back for a job well done for a few people each year. Follow the KISS rule as much as possible. Take a look back at our awesome work for the year and point out some of the things we did well. Set the bar for another year.

Well you are contradicting yourself there.  The only way to showcase what makes a good project good is to critique it in some way so that the good points can be expressed in less subjective terms.  Unless you are one of those people who aprove of awards like "I gave XXX an award because I liked it and thought it looked good."   

[Vigo]

Not really, we all have a good notion about the standards of a home arcade cabinet. Saying "this cabinet is the best example of XXX for the year because of reasons a, b, c, d and e" won't be subjective because we all know that A-E are things above and beyond what you would find on the normal project.

[shmokes]

Plus, who cares? It's not a science. There are always movies that get robbed at the Oscars. If it's done that way, and there are nominees, lots of people will pick one or another but only one will win and everyone who picked another will think it was a bad decision. It's the way the world works. And then everyone moves on and does it again next year.

[Howard_Casto]

Not really, we all have a good notion about the standards of a home arcade cabinet. Saying "this cabinet is the best example of XXX for the year because of reasons a, b, c, d and e" won't be subjective because we all know that A-E are things above and beyond what you would find on the normal project.

You are making two very bad assumptions there.  Firstly that everybody knows the standards of a good home cabinet.  This just isn't true.  If they did, then we wouldn't have so many unplayable monstrosities floating around out there.  It's our job to teach them.  Secondly that what you just described isn't judging.  When you use the "a, b, c, d, e "  example, guess what?  You've just added an itemized checklist of good points to the cab... this is more or less the 20 point system I originally suggested. 

[shmokes]

I haven't read any of this thread, so maybe this is all covered. But why not have it work just like the academy awards. Not everyone who watches or even makes movies is a member of the academy. Why not have Saint grant membership, and members vote. They don't have to vote on some specific criteria unless of course it's for a specific award (like judging Best Control Panel shouldn't take sideart into consideration).

Votes are tallied. Tim Schafer and a couple musical acts are hired for the awards ceremony. And that's that.

[Howard_Casto]

Plus, who cares? It's not a science. There are always movies that get robbed at the Oscars. If it's done that way, and there are nominees, lots of people will pick one or another but only one will win and everyone who picked another will think it was a bad decision. It's the way the world works. And then everyone moves on and does it again next year.

Actually..... the reason that the Oscars almost always get it wrong (and rest assured, history has shown that they almost always get things wrong) is because their voting system is horribly flawed.  They do things like only voting on a select group of films (remember when I said we should reivew as many as possible?) by having an proportional nomination system and using a simple "yes no" vote aka a popularity contest instead of reviewing the films as a panel (remember when I said we should avoid it being a popularity contest?)


So yeah, I actually have put a lot of thought in the correct way to handle something like this.  The Academy Awards was my goto example of how NOT to proceed.  

[shmokes]

Remember when I said:

I haven't read any of this thread

So no, LOL, I don't remember you saying any of those things.

But then . . . I guess what I'm getting from your most recent post, which I did read, is that this whole thing is just not gonna be any fun. Maybe that's not fair since I didn't read the whole thread.

By the way, reviewing as many as possible is still a select group. Anything less than "all" is, by definition a select group. That's sort of the point of the nominating process. It narrows down the "all" to something manageable. And then, how does it not become a popularity contest? Can you imagine how many people would refuse to vote for a masterpiece I built on principle?     I have full-on enemies here. One guy said once that he was giving up the whole hobby because of me. Which doesn't even make sense because I wasn't even mean to him, but whatever. I know you can relate because of how many people have publicly expressed similar feelings for you.

So, it's gonna be flawed no matter what. Trying to create some system that will actually scientifically identify the best cab, with objectivity pure as the driven snow, is laughable. If you're gonna do it, make it manageable and make it fun. Those are by far the two most important factors (since the other factors are totally illusory anyway).

And if manageable and fun are what you're going for, the Academy Awards actually offer a fairly good template to go by.

[jimmy2x2x]

Why are you all so fixed on an elite panel who will make a lot of the decisions, what is the issue with public voting?

Is this about giving awards or creating a gentlemans club?

[Le Chuck]

Remember when I said:

But then . . . I guess what I'm getting from your most recent post, which I did read, is that this whole thing is just not gonna be any fun. Maybe that's not fair since I didn't read the whole thread.

By the way, reviewing as many as possible is still a select group. Anything less than "all" is, by definition a select group. That's sort of the point of the nominating process. It narrows down the "all" to something manageable. And then, how does it not become a popularity contest? Can you imagine how many people would refuse to vote for a masterpiece I built on principle?     I have full-on enemies here. One guy said once that he was giving up the whole hobby because of me. Which doesn't even make sense because I wasn't even mean to him, but whatever. I know you can relate because of how many people have publicly expressed similar feelings for you.

So, it's gonna be flawed no matter what. Trying to create some system that will actually scientifically identify the best cab, with objectivity pure as the driven snow, is laughable. If you're gonna do it, make it manageable and make it fun. Those are by far the two most important factors (since the other factors are totally illusory anyway).

And if manageable and fun are what you're going for, the Academy Awards actually offer a fairly good template to go by.

Shmokes, there are some really great questions in there.  I have my own opinion on how to keep it fun, keep it manageable, and rein in the user popularity test but the best way to flesh out a community solution is to execute this on a trial basis and then see where we are.  Anything less than that and I fear we'll dissolve into bickering and end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

To address your concerns user to user I am for a popular vote for yearly judges:  This may keep some of our users with "full-on enemies" out of the judges circle but the benefit to the project outweighs the consequence of lost experience just because so-n-so is a prickly character that gets in peoples' jell-o too much... or may not.  Again, it's a popular vote, this thread has hundreds of views and like 30 votes so it's not going to be perfect. 

Category winner selection - Users recommend projects for each category.  Panel ensures nothing was left out that they think should be included and does a write-up on the X (3?) that they choose (2/3 of which need to be nominated).  Those write-ups go up for a popular vote and the community decides the winner. 

Maybe a clear front runner goes in but after the write-ups the underdog gets a more favorable look and comes out ahead?  Maybe the write-up doesn't change the vote at all but at least provides some good analysis. 

Or even simpler, the nominations is the voting, once it's closed the one with the most nom wins, but the panel still analyses their three pics for a "closer look" a this year's nominees. 

When I say good analysis I don't know what that looks like yet.  I'm hoping it's fun, I'm hoping it is pointed but a bit tongue in cheek, I'm hoping that people would enjoy reading it.  That's why I'm putting mine up for a go so we can iron that out.   

I am extremely concerned with the "gentleman's club" but want to have a standard form and consistent analysis of the projects as well.  It's a tough line to walk but I'm on that line so hopefully I can get something that Jimmy likes and will read and something that Howard likes and will read even though they have almost didactic points of view.     

[Howard_Casto]

Why are you all so fixed on an elite panel who will make a lot of the decisions, what is the issue with public voting?

Is this about giving awards or creating a gentlemans club?

Nah, man there's no elite panel to it.  We just need a group of guys that actually know what they are doing to go over the nominees.  I don't think it's possible to make a really good awards system with just a popular vote.

[Well Fed Games]

I am still confused by all this bureaucracy talk. Is there any doubt what projects have raised the bar and which ones have not? I'm quite proud of the work I did on my cab but have no interest in a critique of it beyond the advice and suggestions I received in the project thread. Based on my successes and failures, I will give advice and suggestions in other people's project threads. It is the great MAME circle of life.

By all means, maybe we should start a trend of people posting their favorite builds, or encourage builders to do better postmortems on their cabinets (video please) talking about what they would and wouldn't do again. But it seems like negativity keeps creeping into this award idea, and it has become too messy. If you think something is cool, just say so. Start a thread. But talk of judges and stuff... no thanks.

[Le Chuck]

We could always split it up.  Run a popular vote by category.  Put out simple instructions, let folks nominate, after a week or two close the nominations and open a voting pole for each category.  Awards and accolades presented as necessary.

Not a lot of bureaucracy, low impact, fun, a year end review child board on the project announce thread.  Easy peasy.   

An unaffiliated panel made up by whoever decides they want to be on that panel can get together and discuss the merits of cabs and projects as they see fit.  Really get academic and post their findings as necessary.  The panel doesn't do any awards - only analysis for the good of those who suffer through reading it. The only stipulation is that the builder has to consent to the scrutiny, otherwise the project continue to exist in a sublime state of nature within the great MAME circle of life.   

Sometimes the best solution is two solutions.  Comments and criticism are welcome and I'll still put my cab up for the scrutiny experiment. 

[Vigo]

Here is my 2 cents on method, just throwing it out there:

1) Start a nomination thread. Have 5 award categories. Ask people to just post [project nominated, category, link]

2) Start a voting poll for every project with 2 or more nominations. Do not allow results to be viewed until the voting period is over. Give people up to five votes, enough for one vote per category. In the original post have a link to every project announcement and a photo.

3) Bring a few honorary "judges". The don't really do any judging, but rather talk about the voted winner and highlight what they feel makes the project so awesome. Maybe the judges can also do an honorable mention. Pick out something cool that might not have been a winner.

4) Maybe allow the winners to be honorary judges the for the next year.

[Well Fed Games]

panel made up by whoever decides they want to be on that panel

the builder has to consent to the scrutiny

That seems like the most reasonable approach.

And a "look at some of the community's favorite builds completed in the last year" thread certainly makes sense, especially as a point of inspiration for newcomers.

As long as all of it keeps with the (general) spirit of the forum, and isn't making fun of people's hard work or giving unsolicited criticism, then yeah, I would probably read and enjoy those threads. And it is going to take restraint. Sure, someone might hate all weecades, or laminated cabs, or leaf switch joysticks, or whatever, but they don't need to share that in every thread discussing a cabinet with those elements.

And definitely not this:

I think it could be just as valuable to highlight a few stinkers

Even the phrasing of that statement... that some cabs are "stinkers," is a reminder of how this process could go wrong if it isn't ultimately based around praising the praiseworthy.

[CheffoJeffo]

Sure, someone might hate all weecades, or laminated cabs, or leaf switch joysticks, or whatever, but they don't need to share that in every thread discussing a cabinet with those elements.

Anybody who hates leaf switch joysticks is, by definition, not qualified to judge anything.

 

[Zakk]

My thoughts.

As a 'user voted system'. I think it would garner limited interest.  I really should have kept with it, but time and incentive was lacking. The only guy that really kept at it was lew.  That crazy irishman and his hot wife toiled long hours finding the best of the best, submitting them to me so that I could...wander off and play with a penny (a shiny penny). In fact, if lew wanted the rights to the mameys I'd likely give it to him.  Who knows, maybe the 'judges' need to be picked by the users here, and then they can 'vote' on the submissions.

Oh and apologies to anyone I didn't respond to.  There was that bit where mameworld lost its domain, and I was just too damn lazy to update all the links and whatnot.  saint gave me free hosting space for the mameys too (that guy is a....saint), but even that didn't get my juices flowing.  Around that time the main submission e-mail addy got shut down too.  

So I agree that people should be recognized for the awesome stuff they do.  It's just really hard to keep with it.  As one pointed out, the mamey's have been sort of inactive for what, 4-6 years?  So just remember, this is an unpaid proposition, where your biggest accolades will be things like this :
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Talk:Mamey
Plus the guys that pull the "who is you to judge me!?!" guys, they are tiring as well.  ANARCHY FOREVER!!!

Plus, and shmokes said, there's one cabinet that should win all the awards...it just took so long to build that the awards were gone by the time it finished

[Pixelhugger]

it just took so long to build that the awards were gone by the time it finished

So wait a second. That "Mamey for most aggravatingly slow progress ever made" wasn't a real Mamey? Crap. Now what...

I give up.

[Howard_Casto]

Sure, someone might hate all weecades, or laminated cabs, or leaf switch joysticks, or whatever, but they don't need to share that in every thread discussing a cabinet with those elements.

Anybody who hates leaf switch joysticks is, by definition, not qualified to judge anything.

 

+1

[Howard_Casto]

it just took so long to build that the awards were gone by the time it finished

So wait a second. That "Mamey for most aggravatingly slow progress ever made" wasn't a real Mamey? Crap. Now what...

I give up.

Dear God!  I thought you had died or something!  The end results are worth it though... you certainly have my vote!

[Howard_Casto]

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Talk:Mamey

Dude that's messed up.  You want me go go beat em up?  I'll do it. 

I'm pretty sure a certain someone has put out a hit on me anyway so it's not like I have anything to live for.   

[Zakk]

it just took so long to build that the awards were gone by the time it finished

So wait a second. That "Mamey for most aggravatingly slow progress ever made" wasn't a real Mamey? Crap. Now what...

I give up.

Smartguy 

[DaveMMR]

So just remember, this is an unpaid proposition, where your biggest accolades will be things like this :
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Talk:Mamey
Plus the guys that pull the "who is you to judge me!?!" guys, they are tiring as well.  ANARCHY FOREVER!!!

Ahh haters gonna hate. There's always someone who complains about everything; pay them no mind.

And yeah, that cabinet is insane. It's hard to beat and I love the project thread. Did I see that thing actually had a TOC?

[CheffoJeffo]

FWIW, since he is still an active member here, we should call out Blanka as the one who bitched about the Mameys like that.

I do recall some poor reaction on his part to the criticism of his first cab (which was spread over many sites).

[Le Chuck]

Sample thread vote language below.  Please edit and bold your proposed changes.  Whittled it down to 5 categories.  

<edit: If you're browsing through recent posts and see this please don't start posting your favs yet, there will be a separate thread... but start browsing!>

Welcome to the 2011 BYOAC User Choice Awards!

Before we get too deep into spring and everybody is in the garage working on their builds it's time to take a few minutes and identify some of our favorite, ground breaking, or all around well made builds of 2011.  Feel free to nominate more than one and don't feel obligated to nominate something for every category.    

Please take a look at the categories and their description.  To nominate please reply with this format:

Category: Name of Build or Project: Link
<optional description of why nominated for that category>

Any project nominated twice (by different users ) will make it to the vote thread which will open on X.  This thread will close on Y so make sure and scrub through this last year's builds then put up the links that you think progressed the hobby, just make sure whatever you're nominating was "complete" after 01 JAN 2011 and before 31 DEC 2011.

Here's a list of this year's categories and a brief definition:

Fullsize Cabs - Uprights, cockpits, and showcase cabs that demonstrate outstanding theme, style, balance, and execution

Small cabs and non standards - Bartops, Cocktails, and cabs more easily defined by what they aren't, cab in furniture, cab disguised as something else that demonstrate outstanding theme, style, balance, and execution

Hack or Mod - minis, custom built or modified controls, lighting, or other physical cab elements that were new or improved this past year and advanced the hobby

Utility - this can be a piece of code or specialty tool user written or created this past year that created or improved emulation capability or generally increased software flexibility

Contribution - helpful forum members recognized for their dedicated commitment to lending a hand, proffering sound advice, and going out of their way to ensure you can complete an awesome build (serious entries only here, if you have a beef take it elsewhere).


Thanks for taking the time to nominate your favorite(s) and help us document the best projects of 2011!  

[Le Chuck]

As a 'user voted system'. I think it would garner limited interest.  I really should have kept with it, but time and incentive was lacking. The only guy that really kept at it was lew.  That crazy irishman and his hot wife toiled long hours finding the best of the best, submitting them to me so that I could...wander off and play with a penny (a shiny penny). In fact, if lew wanted the rights to the mameys I'd likely give it to him.  Who knows, maybe the 'judges' need to be picked by the users here, and then they can 'vote' on the submissions.

Zakk, I'm sure everybody (well almost everybody ) would love to see the Mamey come back.  Part of the reason it was able to fade away is that it wasn't housed in the forums and it did have a single point of failure.  If we create a user generated system then it shouldn't matter if any of the original posters are interested in doing it next year, somebody in this community would hopefully copy and past the thread and change the dates to keep things rolling.  It's not necessarily THE way it's just A way. 

[yotsuya]

I've been here since Summer 2010, and I didn't realize the Mamey was "official". I just thought it was something like, "Hey, that cab is nice. It deserves a Mamey!" type of thing.

[DaveMMR]

Small cabs and non standards - Bartops, Cocktails, and cabs more easily defined by what they aren't, cab in furniture, cab disguised as something else that demonstrate outstanding theme, style, balance, and execution

I don't know, but I feel bartops/cocktails (typical builds) and stuff made out of atypical things (like furniture) should be separate categories. Otherwise, the rest looks good!

[Le Chuck]

Small cabs and non standards - Bartops, Cocktails, and cabs more easily defined by what they aren't, cab in furniture, cab disguised as something else that demonstrate outstanding theme, style, balance, and execution

I don't know, but I feel bartops/cocktails (typical builds) and stuff made out of atypical things (like furniture) should be separate categories. Otherwise, the rest looks good!

Me too, 5 just felt like a nice round number.. oh wait.  Well it seemed like a good target.  I just dont know how many non standards get finished a year either.  I can only think of a handful of great ones but I am totally willing to split that back out. 

[Howard_Casto]

Le Chuck, I think you've got this well under control.   We could nit-pick minor details to infinity but I think you've got things pretty well ironed out.  I say full speed ahead with you and we'll all be here if you need us in one form or another. 

[Dervacumen]

Did I say I don't see this working out well?  I hope it does but it's going to be a hard thing to manage well on so many levels.  I'll support this and contribute significant help if wanted.

[Le Chuck]

Le Chuck, I think you've got this well under control.   We could nit-pick minor details to infinity but I think you've got things pretty well ironed out.  I say full speed ahead with you and we'll all be here if you need us in one form or another. 

  but I'm still looking to others to iron out the critiques.  I think they would be a huge benefit to the community in one form or another but that seems to be a tougher wrinkle to iron which is why I am pushing ahead without it for now.  If this flies then the critiques can catch up to it later.  I absolutely appreciate your input as well as the other long time users and can't wait to see what ya'll come up with. 

[Vigo]

Le Chuck, I think you've got this well under control.   We could nit-pick minor details to infinity but I think you've got things pretty well ironed out.  I say full speed ahead with you and we'll all be here if you need us in one form or another. 

  but I'm still looking to others to iron out the critiques.  I think they would be a huge benefit to the community in one form or another but that seems to be a tougher wrinkle to iron which is why I am pushing ahead without it for now.  If this flies then the critiques can catch up to it later.  I absolutely appreciate your input as well as the other long time users and can't wait to see what ya'll come up with. 

Eh, I have to agree with Howard. You seem to have a good thing in place. I'd say start it up. If anyone complains, give them a royal stfu because they should have said something sooner. 

[Zakk]

How come whenever you get more than 1 man in the room, one of them always wants to start a club and make a bunch of special rules?

Stop spending so much time in prison, and this sort of thing won't happen as much. 

[Donkey_Kong]

Why not make Chad the judge? He actually judged arcade cabinets professionally for a few years when he was younger.

+ eleventy!

[Le Chuck]

Nomination page is up.

[BobA]

Thanks for the accolades.   I would be glad to help out but I am watching to see what the final decision will be about how this will function to give acknowledgement to those who add to the hobby and a good pat on the back to those who do an acceptable job.

[BobA]

I think that being nominated is like the Oscars.  Sort of an honor even if you do not get the statue.  Maybe at the close of nominations you could post the totals of all those nominated as a pat on the back.

[Le Chuck]

I think that being nominated is like the Oscars.  Sort of an honor even if you do not get the statue.  Maybe at the close of nominations you could post the totals of all those nominated as a pat on the back.

Absolutely,