Hey, shmokes, small legal question for you....

[Gray_Area]

How would you advise someone on fighting a speeding ticket?

[fallacy]

What’s the point… innless there is a point, like you will lose your license for it or something.

[DaveMMR]

What’s the point… innless there is a point, like you will lose your license for it or something.

Money, points on your license... It pays to fight it.

[CCM]

Were you a dick to the cop that pulled you over?  If not, just go to court,  and odds are you will get no points and a reduced fine.   If you were a dick to the cop, you are screwed.

[Richard_Nixon]

Where I live there are a couple "firms" run by retired cops, all they do is help you fight tickets. Went there once for free advice. They wern't cheap if they took on my case. But it would have been a little bit cheaper and no demerits had I won. I regret not hiring them. Ended up having to take some driving courses because I still had a restricted licence at the time. Ended up costing me way more, plus the 2 demerits.

[ark_ader]

If you are at fault pay it and learn from it.

If you are caught speeding in a Work Zone, you will be in trouble.  I think it is double penalty.

If you want to take a chance, go to court.  Most of the time the cop will not want to be present and you should get off lightly or free.  If the cop shows up you might lose your license.

Better to man up and pay it, and be more careful as it could cost you your life, or even a child because of your speeding in the future.  No point speeding, and you always end up having to wait at the red light. 

I had my license since I was 16 and it is squeaky clean.  I always keep to the speed limit, except in open desert.  Yes I get every bozo giving me the finger, every cop checking my plates, and my family says I drive like an old woman.  I also have the lowest insurance than anyone in the family.  Go figure.

[Howard_Casto]

If you are at fault pay it and learn from it.

If you are caught speeding in a Work Zone, you will be in trouble.  I think it is double penalty.

If you want to take a chance, go to court.  Most of the time the cop will not want to be present and you should get off lightly or free.  If the cop shows up you might lose your license.

Better to man up and pay it, and be more careful as it could cost you your life, or even a child because of your speeding in the future.  No point speeding, and you always end up having to wait at the red light. 

I had my license since I was 16 and it is squeaky clean.  I always keep to the speed limit, except in open desert.  Yes I get every bozo giving me the finger, every cop checking my plates, and my family says I drive like an old woman.  I also have the lowest insurance than anyone in the family.  Go figure.

+1

I believe in being responsible for one's actions.  If you were actually speeding you were committing a crime and as an American Citizen it is your duty to accept the punishment for the crime.  Of course you are entitled to your day in court, but that is supposed to be for defending yourself if you feel that you are innocent, NOT for worming your way out of paying.  By doing so you are wasting the court's time, taxpayers' money and setting a bad example.

[saint]

Horrible advice. Fight the ticket if possible. You are under no moral obligation to pay the maximum fine, accept the point penalty, and possible increase in your insurance rates.

[Nephasth]

I believe in being responsible for one's actions.

+Eleventy

Don't be a ---smurfette---.

[Richard_Nixon]

Seems like most people here have never owned a sports car. Lol. Even then, there are some more legitimate excuses for fighting a ticket. Everybody is assuming the worst here. Maybe he got ticketed for doing 10 over in a strange part of town at night. You guys are telling me you always know the speed limit wherever you are? Maybe he was following traffic and got picked out for one reason or another. Cops are just as fallible as everyone else, sometimes more so.

[DaveMMR]

Horrible advice. Fight the ticket if possible. You are under no moral obligation to pay the maximum fine, accept the point penalty, and possible increase in your insurance rates.

+1

Going to court has nothing to do with not being responsible for your actions. The best drivers can and do get pulled over for something as simple as going a few MPH over the speed limit. You are entitled to your day in court to address the charges - even if you know that you were guilty.

If you just accept the ticket and pay the fine, you'll also be paying higher premiums on your insurance for a long time.  By going to court, even if you're admitting guilt, the judge will often review your record and save from receiving points, lower the fine, etc.

And you are NOT wasting the court's time or taxpayers money. This is the system we have in place to prevent abuse/corruption. It is well within your rights to use it and you'd be foolish not to.

OP, consult your local attorney. Often the lawyer's fee is less than the fine and insurance hike depending on the severity.

[Nephasth]

By going to court, even if you're admitting guilt, the judge will often review your record and save from receiving points, lower the fine, etc.

Very true. All 4 judges I've stood in front of (3 traffic, 1 misdemeanor) admire honesty and ownership of guilt and usually reward it with a lesser punishment.

[CheffoJeffo]

Horrible advice. Fight the ticket if possible. You are under no moral obligation to pay the maximum fine, accept the point penalty, and possible increase in your insurance rates.

This.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Uh, hello guys -step back from the moral implications or big government concerns, and think about your time and wallet.  Not only should you not pay the fine, you should get a lawyer.  The reason why is to prevent points from being put on your insurance allowing insurers to drastically increase your liablity insurance rates, or even drop you and require you to be placed in an assigned risk pool.  This is critical in states (ie north carolina) where you can't drive without liability insurance.  Also, in NC, by law you can lose your license if convicted of speeding 20 mph over the limit.  So if you were way over, you need professional help.  I'ts not likely the judge would go for the jugular, but if they did, you'd be in a world of hurt.

I've gotten 3 tickets over 25 years of driving.  after each, I get about 8 letters from lawyers offering representation for a fixed fee, plus fine and court costs.  I select the most likely one, usually one that was a former assistant DA or whatever, sign the form, give them the credit card number and forget it.  They make their back room deals in batches of 50 tickets at a time, and I get a letter from them after the court date saying that my case was dismissed.  total cost $100 for the attorney and $100 court costs.  An insurance bump could be $300 a year for 3 years. 

So get smart and get a traffic experienced attorney.  there's other strategy that you can research online.  For example, if you get popped by a city motorcycle officer, you're cooked (without a lawyer) because all they do is traffic stops and they are real world technical experts on their equipment and how to convict speeders, and they always show up to court. 

Now, if you get a parking ticket, pay it and move on. 

[lilshawn]

just take your ticket in and ask them to reduce the fine. tell them you can't really afford this. often they will lower it to the next lowest fine or simply make you pay the victims fee

if they won't budge (if applicable) ask to have them take the points off. easy to do and not a big deal.

if you did something REALLY stupid like drinking and driving (I certainly hope not) take your medicine and pay up. Learn form your stupidity.

[DaveMMR]

if you did something REALLY stupid like drinking and driving (I certainly hope not) take your medicine and pay up. Learn form your stupidity.

Well if it were drinking and driving, that's in a different league than speeding tickets. You NEED a lawyer; there's no "mailing in a fine" or "asking for a reduction of said fine". You'll be lucky if you're only out a few grand and loss of your license for a few months.  Here in Long Island, they practically nail you to the wall for anything over .08. Besides the expense, they even used to publish your mug shot on the local paper's website BEFORE you were found guilty. If we're doing any kind of drinking, we take cabs/trains/buses. It is not worth having even just one or two drinks and then driving.

Now, if you get a parking ticket, pay it and move on. 

I used to get parking tickets in front of my old apartment because of their weird village parking rules. It was $50! But if you went to the courthouse on a specified date and spoke to the judge there, they'd bump it down to $25. And I know NYC once let me fight a ticket via an internet form.  So sometimes it's worth it, if your time is worth a couple of bucks.

[knave]

Fight the ticket, go to court, Your defense is that your "speed was safe for the current conditions", If you think you are guilty but just want to avoid the hit on your insurance ask for Traffic school. This is all at the preliminary hearing...If you still insist on scheduling a court date then do it. the cop might not show and even if he does if you are polite you can still ask for traffic school.

[danny_galaga]

I notice Gary Area hasn't elaborated. Maybe was going so fast they threw him in the slammer!

As others have said, if you were speeding; pay, learn, move on. If you feel you've been hard done by, then sure, go to court.

[Gray_Area]

I've had a few parking tickets. The last one, several years ago, I got out of. I forget how exactly, but I convinced the judge it wasn't a violation. Maybe she just liked me.

I don't often speed. The last speeding ticket I got was thirteen years ago, and that was on the interstate. I always know when I'm going to get a ticket, there's always a feeling or marker. Back in '92, it was on the interstate and noticed I was in the head of the pack....but continued a couple/few miles farther. This time around, it was at the stop light before; I saw a civilian truck next to me with a small sheriff badge-like sticker in the corner of the back window. Took off from the light, round a corner, then round another corner and found a cycle cop pointing a gun at me. There were three of them, two already busy. Happened to be that day and time they were casing that stretch, as they've never been around there when I've passed through.

I was casual and cool with the officer. I always am. They're doing their job.

The area was posted 40, though I know it's rated for 60, and given the [industrial] area should be 50. I knew I was speeding, though not quite what he said - 60. I certainly wasn't being dangerous. I mentioned something, and when he came back he said he gave the 'approximate speed' of 50.

Here, they automatically give you the option of driving school - I think most people take this option - and I thought about it. Paying the ticket and driving school were both about $200. My brother said if the officer does show, then try to discredit the ticket by asking when the gun was last calibrated, that sort of thing. I remember, when I was in college, a professor or older student saying he got out of speeding tickets by pulling his 'where's the injured party' card.

[TopJimmyCooks]

See my comments above if you didn't already.  20mph is serious, although if it was really serious he would have written down 19 over.  They're not trying to take decent citizens off the road, just get their tax, teach a lesson and move on.  That motorcycle patrolman just got his gun calibrated last Tuesday and the certificate's on file with the clerk of court, trust me.  I bet it was a clear, nice day too.  Attorney time I'd say.  You could also call your car insurer and ask for a hypothetical rate increase quote to compare with the $400 and the class time. 

Further advice for anyone next time-consider the safety of the officer.  Being calm and nice is key, like Gray mentioned.  I also keep my hands on the wheel at 10/2 until the officer gets a look.  Then, I announce any moves before I make them - wallet, glovebox, whatever before moving off the wheel.  Tell them you have a weapon if you do, or hand them your concealed carry permit with your license and let them ask about it.  When you do these things they feel like you are aware of the dangers that face LEO's walking up to car stops and it does give them a better feeling.  I've gotten maybe more than my share of warnings instead of tickets. 

[ark_ader]

And... this is important..if in doubt of the speed limit and you do not see any signs and you are in a built up neighborhood or industrial area, go 35 until you see a sign. 

If you get pulled for going too slow then say where is the sign?  Unless you are on a freeway or bridge you will not get a ticket.

Going 60 in a 40 well that is just plain dumb. 

What if a child or a dog ran out in front?   

[CCM]

What if a child or a dog ran out in front?   

Not all children or dogs are meant to live.

That's not cool!!   I love dogs...

[TopJimmyCooks]

What if a child or a dog ran out in front?   

Not all children  . . .

I believe in natural selection, but there are some things you just. don't. say.  I would edit that If I were you.

[leapinlew]

there are some things you just. don't. say.  I would edit that If I were you.

I see you're new here. TopJimmyCooks meet PinballJim.

[Mikezilla]

there are some things you just. don't. say.  I would edit that If I were you.

I see you're new here. TopJimmyCooks meet PinballJim.

Seriously, relax. Besides, if a kid ran out in the street in a 40 zone its the parents fault. Shouldnt of had a kid if they are that stupid... 

As to what someone said earlier, yes they are trying to take your money. Here in CA they wanted to charge me 1200 dollars for not completely stopping at a stop sign in a residential area that was JUST put in. I mentioned it in another thread. That is ---smurfing--- extortion. I hired a lawyer and it got reduced to 180 bucks considering my pristine driving record. The lawyer either charges a 100 bucks and gets it dismissed completely, or she refunds the 100 bucks if she reduces it, so its win win. Fight that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. The state is broke (mine is anyway) and they try to get you for every damn thing.

Someone sued the city because of their stupid red light cameras. The things were dealing out tickets to non offenders, as soon as the light would turn yellow they would start snapping tickets, even if you were almost through the light. Its ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. "oh but the camera lights print money, I mean save lives". 

[Le Chuck]

The state is broke (mine is anyway) and they try to get you for every damn thing.

True story.  Townships in west Kansas are so bad off that they have tripled fines and are enforcing at 2mph over.  2mph is in the realm of spedo variance which is retarded.  A lot of these aren't speed traps per se but are quick drops with no notice where a state highway cuts through a town with no light.

[Mikezilla]

I've been told you can flat out ignore tickets issued by cameras but I've never gotten one to test it myself.

 

Not here man. A friend of mine got one, moved, didnt change his address with the DMV, and there was a warrant out for his arrest 2 months later when he got pulled over for a busted tail light. 

[wizkid32]

Tickets suck...  Do you, perhaps have a friend or family member who is in the legal field?  They might be able to help.

[SNAAKE]

there are some things you just. don't. say.  I would edit that If I were you.

I see you're new here. TopJimmyCooks meet PinballJim.

 

u should always fight tickets. and try your best not to get one in the first place.

[ark_ader]

As to what someone said earlier, yes they are trying to take your money. Here in CA they wanted to charge me 1200 dollars for not completely stopping at a stop sign in a residential area that was JUST put in. I mentioned it in another thread. That is ---smurfing--- extortion. I hired a lawyer and it got reduced to 180 bucks considering my pristine driving record. The lawyer either charges a 100 bucks and gets it dismissed completely, or she refunds the 100 bucks if she reduces it, so its win win. Fight that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. The state is broke (mine is anyway) and they try to get you for every damn thing.

Oooh! Sounds just like Downey cops. 

[shmokes]

Sorry. Just saw this thread. I don't have advice that hasn't already been covered by TopJimmyCooks better than I would have covered it.

What ark and Howard recommended is silly. Maybe if you feel like your employer is paying you more than you're worth you should request a salary reduction too. Who is to say that the standard fines are reasonable or that they should always be applied uniformly? What if the penalty for going 1-9 miles over is $1000? Do you still pay without fighting since you know you're guilty? What if the fine is $10,000?

We've designed a legal system that explicitly invites you to come and plead your case, and that gives judges the latitude to consider not just the black letter law, but the equity of your situation--the fairness of the law as it applies to the specific facts of your case. There's  nothing wrong with a system that allows authorities to grant leniency based on extenuating circumstances, or cutting you a break based on your past as an upstanding citizen. Imagine how stupid it would be if, as a parent, you had set consequences for every broken rule, regardless of whether the rule was broken deliberately or by accident, regardless of whether there might have been a rather good reason for breaking the rule.

To not take advantage of these leniency mechanisms based on some principle that if you do something wrong you deserve every possible consequence . . . that's just masochism. And stupid. You ought to act in your best interest, and you probably ought not operate under the assumption that the state is infallible--that the cops and the legislators, etc., always get everything right, creating and enforcing rules with perfect fairness, accounting for every possible circumstance.

Of course fight the ticket if you anticipate a better outcome.

[atomikbohm]

In some states you can see a Hearing Officer (Minnesota for 1).  These court officers are appointed to elevate some of the volume of cases that go though traffic court. 

1) They are usually faster (if you make an appointment) i.e. an hour or 2 vs half or a whole day in court.
2) Are more interested in getting it over with than nailing you to the cross.
3) Will tell you what options they can offer (like dismissing the charge, allow you to plead to a lesser offense, ect)

My ex-room mate's high school hockey coach was a Hearing Officer for a living and recommended everyone to talk to a hearing office for every ticket. 

If you are having a moral dilemma about challenging any ticket, bear in mind that a traffic ticket is a rare class of crime:
1) You are guilty until proven innocent.
2) Most, not all, crimes if you can prove that your actions were appropriate to the situation (the other guy though the 1st punch) there are mandates for reduced penalties.  Traffic violations, if the officer writes the ticket and you don't fight it, sucks to be you.

<end of rant>

[ark_ader]

Sorry. Just saw this thread. I don't have advice that hasn't already been covered by TopJimmyCooks better than I would have covered it.

What ark and Howard recommended is silly. Maybe if you feel like your employer is paying you more than you're worth you should request a salary reduction too. Who is to say that the standard fines are reasonable or that they should always be applied uniformly? What if the penalty for going 1-9 miles over is $1000? Do you still pay without fighting since you know you're guilty? What if the fine is $10,000?

We've designed a legal system that explicitly invites you to come and plead your case, and that gives judges the latitude to consider not just the black letter law, but the equity of your situation--the fairness of the law as it applies to the specific facts of your case. There's  nothing wrong with a system that allows authorities to grant leniency based on extenuating circumstances, or cutting you a break based on your past as an upstanding citizen. Imagine how stupid it would be if, as a parent, you had set consequences for every broken rule, regardless of whether the rule was broken deliberately or by accident, regardless of whether there might have been a rather good reason for breaking the rule.

To not take advantage of these leniency mechanisms based on some principle that if you do something wrong you deserve every possible consequence . . . that's just masochism. And stupid. You ought to act in your best interest, and you probably ought not operate under the assumption that the state is infallible--that the cops and the legislators, etc., always get everything right, creating and enforcing rules with perfect fairness, accounting for every possible circumstance.

Of course fight the ticket if you anticipate a better outcome.

And if you lose what then?

[shmokes]

Then you pay the fine, get the points, etc.   Jesus Christ . . .

[Le Chuck]

Then you pay the fine, get the points, etc.   Jesus Christ . . .

Jeez, what are you a corperate lawyer?  Don't you know about the new financial penalties for exercising your rights by going to traffic court as a concerned citizen thereby wasting the busy judge's time?  Man, get with it.

[Vigo]

Then you pay the fine, get the points, etc.   Jesus Christ . . .

There is your official legal advice, Gray. I wouldn't be surprised if you see bill in the mail in a couple days.....

[knave]

I feel as if I was overly brief in my last post if you are in California, Traffic court usually is two parts. a hearing and then a trial date if necessary. In the hearing you will wait to go in front of a judge and make a plea. This is where you can ask for traffic school, reduction in fines etc. If you plea not guilty the judge will ask you for your defense. From here the judge may offer you some other choices or offer to set a trial date.  

At the trial is where you will present your evidence, the officer will present his and the judge will make a ruling. This is where, if the officer does not show up your case gets dismissed. (I do think most of the time they show,) Your defense had better be solid or the judge will rule against you and you will be required to pay the fine and get the points.

My opinion: If your defence is solid to begin with (with evidence etc) then the judge at the hearing can rule in your favor before you set the trial date, unless evidence is needed from the citing officer. So I think it is usually worth it to go to the hearing but possibly not to the trial. That is where the judge might be inclined to be more harsh...it's somewhat luck of the draw. If you want to ask to do traffic school ask at the hearing. Sometimes once if goes to trial the judges won't go for that option.
Traffic school in CA removes the points from your record.

[shmokes]

Then you pay the fine, get the points, etc.   Jesus Christ . . .

There is your official legal advice, Gray. I wouldn't be surprised if you see bill in the mail in a couple days.....

That's not my advice. That's what will happen if my advice turns out to be bad. But if going through a ticket mill is an option, it's almost always a better option than just shutting up and taking your medicine.

[CheffoJeffo]

Then you pay the fine, get the points, etc.   Jesus Christ . . .

I dunno man, I hear that ark went out and got hisself an edumacation and is soon going to earn twice what you do.

Maybe we should listen to him since he seems to be the Second Coming Of Chad(tm).

Or we could just see him as Yet Another Internet Troll(also tm) and view his advice the same way that we view PBJ's.

 

[Vigo]

Then you pay the fine, get the points, etc.   Jesus Christ . . .

There is your official legal advice, Gray. I wouldn't be surprised if you see bill in the mail in a couple days.....

That's not my advice. That's what will happen if my advice turns out to be bad. But if going through a ticket mill is an option, it's almost always a better option than just shutting up and taking your medicine.

I though lawyer rule #17 is that any comment that can be remotely interpreted as legal advice, no matter how vague, is invoiced as legal advice.