thinking about another console in a cab for tate shmups- PS2 or Dreamcast?

[sharpfork]

I have an CoinOps 3 xbox in my tate cabinet and I absolutely love it.  Playing CoinOps 3 introduced me to the world of Cave Shmups and I absolutely love them.  The xBox lacks the power to properly emulate some of the newer games so I was thinking about throwing a second console in the Tate cab and adding some sort of component switching to my 480i TV.  I'm not willing to invest in a 360 for a cab at this point.

I can get a dreamcast for free other than buying component cables but I don't like the idea of having to swap disks in a cabinet.
I never had a PS2 but I see there are a decent number of game ports that support tate and it looks like there is a Harddrive loader kind of thing.  It looks like I can get a ps2 with component cables, the HD Advance 2.0 Disk, an 80 Gig Maxtor Hard Drive, and the network thing for like $50.

Any thoughts?  Are the OEM game pads easier to hack on one console over another?
Does one support tate better than the other?
Does the harddrive game loader thing have a tate mode?

Thanks in advance.

[Funnel]

What the heck is "Tate"? Anyway, what games are you trying to run on the xbox? I have a question in regards to CoinOps3... I read in BP's forum that you can set up coinops to boot as a dashboard in this version... have you tried it?

[opt2not]

What the heck is "Tate"? Anyway, what games are you trying to run on the xbox? I have a question in regards to CoinOps3... I read in BP's forum that you can set up coinops to boot as a dashboard in this version... have you tried it?

Tate is a rotated monitor into the vertical position.

[sharpfork]

What the heck is "Tate"? Anyway, what games are you trying to run on the xbox? I have a question in regards to CoinOps3... I read in BP's forum that you can set up coinops to boot as a dashboard in this version... have you tried it?

Tate= roTATE = vertically mounted monitor.

example of game I'd like to play: Ibara

I found an interesting list of each but I'm not sure which support tate mode:

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sony/ps2/the-playstation-2-ps2-shmups-library
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega/dreamcast/sega-dreamcast-shmups-2d-shooters
________
Answer to your unrelated question:
I set direct boot to coinops via a custom shortcut file like evox.xbe on the C: partition using the shorcut creator.exe on a PC.  I've also pointed directly to the coinops default.xbe in a custom bios on a mod chip.
If you are softmodded, I have no clue how to safely do this.

Here is my Tate cabinet booting silently into coinops and me yapping about it:

[Howard_Casto]

I"m definately not one of those term police guys so I don't want to start one of those discussions, BUT.....

The term you are looking for is a vertical cab.  I got by the "tate" slang that you meant a vertical cab, but they are vertical cabs not tate cabs. 

Tate equals rotate, but that does NOT equal verticall oriented, it means you have a cab with an auto rotating monitor. 


That being said.....

You do understand that the PS2 is less powerful than the Xbox and that the DC is a full generation behind right?  In terms of hardware for pure emulation, the xbox is the best out of those three.  So unless you meant that you would play many of the retail cave shooters on those machines, there will be no benefit to switch systems.  In terms of ports, everything released on the ps2 was pretty much also released on the xbox in terms of third party stuff.  Now many of the shooters were harder to find, but you could still get them for the xbox.  At least afaik..... I hope that helps a little. 

[sharpfork]

I do mean the retail ports, not an emu.

[TopJimmyCooks]

not to argue w/Howard, just to learn:  From reading this forum and a few others I had identified "tate" as a console term - using an emulator on a console or hacked console to play import games that output to the display in vertical orientation, thus requiring some effort or means to get the monitor rotated 90 degrees.  Thus possibly pissing off your roommates.  I hadn't heard it applied to cabs with auto rotating displays.  If i built a console based cab emulating arcade games, with a vertical display, I would try to use the term vertical cab, which is more informative to the reader here.

So byoac, what's the correct usage of the term "tate"?

[ark_ader]

I thought it was a gallery. 

[Le Chuck]

Shortened nick-name for Ron White?

Maybe the Urban Dictionary can shed some light...

[Well Fed Games]

I do mean the retail ports, not an emu.

To my knowledge (which is limited to US releases), I don't think the PS2 had a lot of games with a TATE mode... really any that I can think of. Raiden Project for PS1 had that feature (but it was still cut down from the JP release, as the controls were funky for US). Ikaruga on Gamecube... sounds like Dreamcast might be better option.

Although really, a 360 might be the better choice out of all of them if you want to play TATE shmups.

And, no, tate is not short for rotate. It comes from a Japanese origin. The alternative is yoko (horizontal orientation). Top JimmyCooks brings the knowledge.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Summon the knowledge and it shall appear.

So does this mean I can properly refer to my auto rotating display cab as a yokotate?

[Green Giant]

I do mean the retail ports, not an emu.

Are any retail console games designed to be tated?


I suppose someone could have made a game for fat kids that couldn't sit up and had to play while laying down.  Then they could lay on a crate, while playing their tate, and maybe some bate.

[Le Chuck]

I do mean the retail ports, not an emu.

To my knowledge (which is limited to US releases), I don't think the PS2 had a lot of games with a TATE mode... really any that I can think of. Raiden Project for PS1 had that feature (but it was still cut down from the JP release, as the controls were funky for US). Ikaruga on Gamecube... sounds like Dreamcast might be better option.

Although really, a 360 might be the better choice out of all of them if you want to play TATE shmups.

And, no, tate is not short for rotate. It comes from a Japanese origin. The alternative is yoko (horizontal orientation). Top JimmyCooks brings the knowledge.

Yoko broke up the Beatles.  Just sayin.

[sharpfork]

I think Howard is right that I am at least partially misusining the word Tate.  I'd love for this thread to go back to the topic of consoles for these types of gemas but whatever...
The shmups forum defines Tate as:
from http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9665] [url]http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9665 [/url]

Tate: (also True Tate, Vertical Mode) Viewing mode available in some vertscrollers which displays the playing field at full size, rotated 90 degrees to the right. Designed to be utilized by certain monitors which can be turned on their sides, so as to display the game on a vertically-oriented manner similar to a vertically-oriented arcade monitor. The preferred screen format of most vertical shmup players, but it cannot be safely used on most televisions, since turning standard sets on their sides can break them.

Can be used as a verb to describe the actual turning of one’s monitor or television on its side, as in “I tated my monitor to play this game.” Also sometimes presented as “Arcade Mode” or “Full-Screen Mode.”

The word “tate” comes from a Japanese adjective which means “vertical,” and is pronounced “tah-teh,” though the common mispronunciation of “tayte” has gained semi-acceptance. Also commonly spelled with all capital letters (“TATE”), though it is not an acronym.

There are two incorrect “origins” of the word which are commonly heard: one states that “tate” simply comes from the English word “rotate,” and the other states that the word comes from the Japanese verb “tateru,” which means “to stand.” Both are false.

[HaRuMaN]

Go with the DC...

[Malenko]

Tate equals rotate, but that does NOT equal verticall oriented, it means you have a cab with an auto rotating monitor. 

I think Howard is right.......

There are two incorrect “origins” of the word which are commonly heard: one states that “tate” simply comes from the English word “rotate,” and the other states that the word comes from the Japanese verb “tateru,” which means “to stand.” Both are false.

Anyways, go with the DC

[sharpfork]

Thanks for the feedback.  I think im going to give the Dreamcast a shot as well as considering 360 or PC later on.

[HaRuMaN]

Ikaruga on DC in TATE mode...  *drool*

[HaRuMaN]

Oh... and:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Dreamcast_Games_That_Support_Rotation

[opt2not]

There's a really good thread that was put together a while ago by crashwg and others here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=95881.0

Really good info on DC's in arcade cabs.

[sharpfork]

Thanks for the additional info and great threads to reference. 

It is going to be a month or so until I can get my hands on the dreamcast.
Is there much of a reason to try to deal with finding a component cable and doing component switching with my xBox1 or will s-Video do the trick on a 25" 480i CRT TV?

[sharpfork]

So while digging around for more info, I found that there were a few shmups ported to xbox.  Does anyone know if any of the 3 Shikigami ports or the Psyvariar 2 port have a vertical / tate mode?

[BurgerKingDiamond]

I"m definately not one of those term police guys so I don't want to start one of those discussions, BUT.....

The term you are looking for is a vertical cab.  I got by the "tate" slang that you meant a vertical cab, but they are vertical cabs not tate cabs. 

Tate equals rotate, but that does NOT equal verticall oriented, it means you have a cab with an auto rotating monitor. 


That being said.....

You do understand that the PS2 is less powerful than the Xbox and that the DC is a full generation behind right?  In terms of hardware for pure emulation, the xbox is the best out of those three.  So unless you meant that you would play many of the retail cave shooters on those machines, there will be no benefit to switch systems.  In terms of ports, everything released on the ps2 was pretty much also released on the xbox in terms of third party stuff.  Now many of the shooters were harder to find, but you could still get them for the xbox.  At least afaik..... I hope that helps a little. 

In the context of videogames and such, the Japanese word Tate, pronounced "Tah-tay", means that the monitor is oriented vertically. The relation between Tate and rotate is purely coincidental. Most arcade STG ports (starting in the Saturn/PS1 era) have Tate modes that let you play properly with your monitor vertical. The word in Japanese for horizontal would be yoko.

Back to OP. As for the DC vs. PS2 for shmups, both are good. I think that the PS2 would edge out the DC though, and without question if you're into CAVE stuff.

off the top of my head

Cave games for PS2:
Mushihime-Sama
Ibara
ESPgaluda
Dodonpachi Daioujou

others:
Dragon Blaze
Gunbird 2
Srikers 1945 I & II
Raiden III
Homura
Castle Shikigami II


Plus there are PS1 games too, some that I know for sure support Tate is the Japanese Version of Raiden Project (probably Jap Raiden DX too, I would think), and Dodonpachi (much better than the Saturn port  ).

DC has Ikaruga, Triggerheart Excelica, Gunbird II, Under Defeat. There's more I'm sure, but I'm not as familiar with DC.

It's not cheap but if you get into the 360 import stuff you won't be sorry.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

To get component from a DC you would need to buy a VGA box, and then buy a VGA -> component converter.

[sharpfork]

To get component from a DC you would need to buy a VGA box, and then buy a VGA -> component converter.

Thanks for this and the thoughts on DC vs PS2.  I can get the DC for free so all I need to do is a bit of soldering and maybe pick up an s-video cable since I think I only have composite.

The PS2 seems pretty cool but I'd rather look toward a 360 down the road.  I'm thinking I need to figure out a way to be able to move a 360 between multiple cabinets and maybe to my living room too.  I can't bring myself to spend that kind of $ on tate/vertical screened cabinet alone. Plus, I hear skyrim is really cool.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

even to get s-video from a DC you need the VGA box. The box ouputs VGA, s-video and also passes through the regular composite video.

[sharpfork]

even to get s-video from a DC you need the VGA box. The box ouputs VGA, s-video and also passes through the regular composite video.

Thanks again.
Is there a reccomended brand to get?  Best place to get one cheep?

[HaRuMaN]

You don't need a VGA box for svideo on DC.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Dreamcast-S-Video-Cable-NEW-Improves-Picture-/250756474496

[Ginsu Victim]

even to get s-video from a DC you need the VGA box.

You should really just remove this very false post.

[joeH]

Not to complicate your choices...but don't overlook the Sega Saturn either.  Many import shmups were released for the system which are either arcade perfect or close to it. 

[HaRuMaN]

Not to complicate your choices...but don't overlook the Sega Saturn either.  Many import shmups were released for the system which are either arcade perfect or close to it. 

But can you rotate them?

[joeH]

Not to complicate your choices...but don't overlook the Sega Saturn either.  Many import shmups were released for the system which are either arcade perfect or close to it.  

But can you rotate them?

I was just playing Batsugun the other day, which has an arcade mode for playing vertically.  It depends on the game.  Many do have arcade modes for TATE playing.

Here is a nice list of Saturn shmups with writeups, and if TATE mode is available or not:

http://www.angelfire.com/al2/jp/

[opt2not]

DC has Ikaruga, Triggerheart Excelica, Gunbird II, Under Defeat. There's more I'm sure, but I'm not as familiar with DC.

It's not cheap but if you get into the 360 import stuff you won't be sorry.

The Dreamcast Shmups list is:

• Bangaioh
• Border Down
• Castle of Shikigami 2
  
• Chaos Field
• Giga Wing
• Gigawing 2
• Gunbird 2
• Ikaruga
• Karous
• Last Hope
• Mars Matrix
• Psyvariar
• Psyvariar II  
• Radilgy
• Trigger Heart Exelica
• Trizeal
• Twinkle Star Sprites (Neo Geo port!)
• Under Defeat
• Zero Gunner 2

Getting these DC games aren't that much cheaper than getting the new 360 ports, if you're looking to buy retail releases. Most of them will run you at least $50, some can go up to and over $100.

Saturn games run a little cheaper, but you won't be getting any of the 3D games, and since you already have an Xbox, you already have most of those 2D games playable anyways.  My vote is for the DC, the shmups are great (Ikaruga, Under Defeat, Border Down, and Bangaioh are my favourites. Twinkle Star Sprites is awesome too, but you can play that on an MVS emulator), and the system is cheap to get. Pad hacking is pretty easy for the DC, and the controllers are common ground. If you're running to through a TV, you can get an S-Video cable, but if you're planning on connecting to an arcade monitor, you'll need the VGA Box (and hack it to switch to 15khz).

You really can't go wrong with a DC, and if you wanted to connect it to a horizontally mounted monitor, you have some great arcade version games like Crazy Taxi, Virtua Tennis, House of the Dead, Rez (and more!) available to play. The only downside is the lack of Cave games, but IMO there's more to shmups than just Cave games.

[BurgerKingDiamond]

even to get s-video from a DC you need the VGA box.

You should really just remove this very false post.

my bad. I guess I'm wrong. That was always my impression. That's good news though, since I've been dealing with composite because I don't want to buy a VGA box just to get s-video.

[05SRT4]

If your still in the market i think im might be sailing my Dreamcast and VGA box, I want to put a Xbox360 in instead so i can run MK9. Let me now i will give you a killer deal on everything. plus i never really play it, Its only for Dynamite Cop!!!

[sharpfork]

If your still in the market i think im might be sailing my Dreamcast and VGA box, I want to put a Xbox360 in instead so i can run MK9. Let me now i will give you a killer deal on everything. plus i never really play it, Its only for Dynamite Cop!!!

I really appreciate the offer but I have a Dreamcast I gave to my dad a long time ago and he is going to ship it to me next time he is home.  I've also decided that I'm going to go with a 360 as well.  A buddy of mine has a banned one with a bad drive drive flash he will sell me for $20.  I'm going to do some soldering I can't get into here to make it region free so I can get my Japanese Shmupp on.  Having xBox1. xbox 360, and Dreamcast switchable in one CP is going to be an interesting challenge.

[HaRuMaN]

If your still in the market i think im might be sailing my Dreamcast and VGA box, I want to put a Xbox360 in instead so i can run MK9. Let me now i will give you a killer deal on everything. plus i never really play it, Its only for Dynamite Cop!!!

I really appreciate the offer but I have a Dreamcast I gave to my dad a long time ago and he is going to ship it to me next time he is home.  I've also decided that I'm going to go with a 360 as well.  A buddy of mine has a banned one with a bad drive drive flash he will sell me for $20.  I'm going to do some soldering I can't get into here to make it region free so I can get my Japanese Shmupp on.  Having xBox1. xbox 360, and Dreamcast switchable in one CP is going to be an interesting challenge.

Wire your hacks into DB25 connectors and buy a DB25 data switch.

[05SRT4]

If your still in the market i think im might be sailing my Dreamcast and VGA box, I want to put a Xbox360 in instead so i can run MK9. Let me now i will give you a killer deal on everything. plus i never really play it, Its only for Dynamite Cop!!!

I really appreciate the offer but I have a Dreamcast I gave to my dad a long time ago and he is going to ship it to me next time he is home.  I've also decided that I'm going to go with a 360 as well.  A buddy of mine has a banned one with a bad drive drive flash he will sell me for $20.  I'm going to do some soldering I can't get into here to make it region free so I can get my Japanese Shmupp on.  Having xBox1. xbox 360, and Dreamcast switchable in one CP is going to be an interesting challenge.

LOL im going to be using a banned one as well. Yes having 3 will be a challenge, I just use a serial and VGA multi-port and switch to whatever i need. I think they can do more then just 2. I'm using a X-arcade tank stick so all i had to do is use a serial cable. I don't have a cable going to the DC using it for something else right now.

[sharpfork]

Thanks for the additional advice.  I already have a DB25 on each of my pad hacks (image below).  My challenge is that I'm going to want to move the 360 between my vertical and horizontal cabs and if skyrim is as good as I hear, to my 16:9 livingroom TV. 

I guess the other question is if it is worth messing with the Dreamcast if I'm going to have a 360.

[05SRT4]

the only reason why im switching mine out is because of MK9 I know the DC has a ton of great titles for the arcade i just never play them.