RetrocadE, Mac bartop

[killsurfcity]

ha, yeah, i'm on a 400mhz G3! it may be a bit wussy for all this front-end business. honestly, i like macmame a lot. and i have a keyboard tray built into the cab, so admining is no problem. which reminds me... anyone use buttons for freezing save states? i know it's cheating, but for some games it's necessary! 

[alfonzotan]

ha, yeah, i'm on a 400mhz G3! it may be a bit wussy for all this front-end business. honestly, i like macmame a lot. and i have a keyboard tray built into the cab, so admining is no problem.

Yeah, MacMAME looks better and better in that case.

But for navigation, aren't you going to want to have a trackball?  Or are you just going to have a mouse hanging off the side?

[killsurfcity]

i should mostly be able to nav around with the joystick and keyboard for selecting games. taping a letter brings you to the first of that letter in the games list. for settings, i'm going to have a mouse.

[killsurfcity]

so, my lights came in the mail today.



i was wondering if anyone had set these up to run off a wall wart? i would assume that means I don't need the converter?

i've also been thinking about the rear panel layout for my speaker amp, and power. here's what i have so far. any concern about having the amp so close to the power source? do you think this will cause unwanted line noise?

[dandare]

Hey, first off- congrats for getting a cab build going, lookgood so far.

I recently decided to use a mac on my current project, the old pc i was going to use is just dying and giving me a headache
and i have a G5 20'' imac (ppc) that was just gathering dust.

im using Mame os x. have you tried it?, its my fave over macmame.

and what controller will u be using? an ipac? i have a minipac and works great.

[killsurfcity]

yeah, i have a couple more older mcs that might go this route as well. my aluminum powerbook may become the guts of an all vertical batrop, if i can get it stable somehow.

i had tried mame osx in the past and thought it was awful, but i can't really remember why. what do you like about it? how is it better than macmame?

[alfonzotan]

yeah, i have a couple more older mcs that might go this route as well. my aluminum powerbook may become the guts of an all vertical batrop, if i can get it stable somehow.

i had tried mame osx in the past and thought it was awful, but i can't really remember why. what do you like about it? how is it better than macmame?

MAME OS X is generally a good emulator, but it does have its ups and downs... my biggest problem with it is that it gets confused with multiple USB inputs.  My CP has an I-Pac for most of the controls, plus a trackball hacked to an old mouse board and an Ultimarc spinner.  The spinner is rarely (if ever) recognized by MAME OSX.  That emu also has a bad habit of "forgetting" specific game control settings from one session to another.  It's not a consistent thing, I gave up on it before I diagnosed what was going on.  One feature I really do like in MOSX is the ability to easily select and limit the game list to Favorites in your ROM set.  That ought to be standard in every MAME front end IYAM.

Given how bloated MAME in general has become in recent years (MAME OS X picks up that bloat by default, as does SDLMAME), I'd guess you're better off with an old version of MacMAME, but I'd certainly experiment with both just to be sure.

[taylormadelv]

I will commend you for attempting to salvage an old imac G3, I have tried this myself with very mixed results. I tend to avoid G3's in general now. The one cool thing is that you can hack the audio straight out of the imac and you will not need to buy an audio amplifier! The fact that you only have two USB ports and need the special keyboard with the power button to power things up without crashing the machine every time you turn it off will be something to consider when dealing with a boat anchor imac. You can just pull the power and restart automatically over and over with a mac and get away with it, unlike a pc.
If you are still using a G3, I would be concerned that OS X will run way to slow to be of much use in any version of mame. You will have MUCH better results if you try to run things in OS9 and you can use macmame 0.71. For this particular type application for what you are building, PC is king, you can't beat the pc for ease of use and versatility. I run a G4 for vector games only. I run PC's for all raster games on another cabinet. Keep up the good work!

[killsurfcity]

So far OSX runs swimmingly on the G3. Sure, it's not as snappy as later models, but it will do. For the most part it runs MAME fine as well. The only exception being some sluggishness on newer more graphics intensive games. But I don't play many of those, and the ones I do play in general work great. OS 9 really didn't show much performance difference when I tried it. You also don't need the special keyboard, and I've never had problems with it crashing. Little guy runs like a champ actually. I'm pretty much just using what I have around the house, which is macs. If I had access to a bunch of cheap PCs and parts, I'd use them, but I don't.

I actually may be changing this project a bit. A couple things happened this weekend, which make it possible for me to use my old aluminum Powerbook G4, and a 17" LCD monitor for this cab. Firstly, I decided to investigate my "dead" aluminum Powebook to see if I could use it as the guts for another MAME project. Turns out, it's pretty much just the screen that's dead. Other than that, it is running fine so far. Secondly, I scored a 17" Acer monitor in almost perfect condition at a thrift store for $16!

Here's my thrift score. Not a bad haul for under $30...
- 17" LCD monitor
- Nice quality power strip
- Mouse for a potential spinner hack
- Nice sounding computer speakers
- Whacky generic 50 in 1 games pad



Here's the powerbook running MAME, and connected to the used LCD


I figure this new setup has a few bonuses. 1) The cab will be much lighter using the Powerbook, and LCD combo. 2) I can try out Debian and Wah!cade on the Powerbook for some front end goodness. 3) Bigger screen for those more modern games. 4) This frees up the iMac for my next project, an all vertical 1 player bartop. Which suits the iMac's lovely CRT perfectly.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track here?

[alfonzotan]

I figure this new setup has a few bonuses. 1) The cab will be much lighter using the Powerbook, and LCD combo. 2) I can try out Debian and Wah!cade on the Powerbook for some front end goodness. 3) Bigger screen for those more modern games. 4) This frees up the iMac for my next project, an all vertical 1 player bartop. Which suits the iMac's lovely CRT perfectly.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track here?

That should definitely make for a more lightweight build.  In fact you may wind up having to anchor it.  As a pure bartop, energetic players might be able to jerk it around...

EDIT:  This just occurred to me... if you can detach the touchpad from the rest of the Powerbook, mounting it in an unobtrusive spot on the control panel (or maybe vertically on the bezel somewhere) would give you a compact means of GUI navigation without having to plug in a mouse.

[killsurfcity]

yeah, the cab is already probably 50 lbs, and the iMac would add another 40 lbs. pretty heavy!

i'm waiting on a bunch of parts. it sucks. i've been plaqued with solw ebay sellers recently. probably because most things are coming from china, grumble grumble...

anyway, in the meantime, i've been trying to install sdlmame/emulaunch. what a pain. i hate this whole compiling nonsense. it's like a bad linux flashback. just getting a version of xcode that could run on 10.5.8 has been a pain. oh, and i looked into debian, and i'll never look back. i'd really have to hate myself a lot to ever try wrapping my head around installing that crap again. 

anyway, HOPEFULLY i'll be able to compile sdlmame later today. i'm ready to give frontends the two finger solute by now, so this is the last attempt.

thinking more about my marquee options in terms of how to attach them, etc. i was planning on just getting a nice quality print from a local copy show, and mounting it somehow. i've seen people attach them to the back of the plexi with some kind of black clip-on molding. anyone know where i can get some?

[alfonzotan]

yeah, the cab is already probably 50 lbs, and the iMac would add another 40 lbs. pretty heavy!

i'm waiting on a bunch of parts. it sucks. i've been plaqued with solw ebay sellers recently. probably because most things are coming from china, grumble grumble...

anyway, in the meantime, i've been trying to install sdlmame/emulaunch. what a pain. i hate this whole compiling nonsense. it's like a bad linux flashback. just getting a version of xcode that could run on 10.5.8 has been a pain. oh, and i looked into debian, and i'll never look back. i'd really have to hate myself a lot to ever try wrapping my head around installing that crap again. 

anyway, HOPEFULLY i'll be able to compile sdlmame later today. i'm ready to give frontends the two finger solute by now, so this is the last attempt.

thinking more about my marquee options in terms of how to attach them, etc. i was planning on just getting a nice quality print from a local copy show, and mounting it somehow. i've seen people attach them to the back of the plexi with some kind of black clip-on molding. anyone know where i can get some?

Don't compile.  Use one of the pre-compiled versions here:

http://sdlmame.parodius.com/

[killsurfcity]

i need one of the old non intel versions. it looks like compiling is the only way to run it. i downloaded the universal binary, and it was just full of files, no installer or anything. what am i missing?

[alfonzotan]

i need one of the old non intel versions. it looks like compiling is the only way to run it. i downloaded the universal binary, and it was just full of files, no installer or anything. what am i missing?

Assuming that after you unpack you see files named "chdman", "ldverify", "mame", and "romcmp", you've got a compiled file set.  For instance, from this package for version 0.140:

http://sdlmame.parodius.com/stable/sdlmame0140-universal.tar.bz2

There isn't an installer per se, the files you see are SDLMAME, specifically the "mame" file.  It's not a standard Mac app, in that it doesn't have a GUI all by itself.  You either open games through the Terminal using MAME command line syntax (I don't recommend this unless you just really love the command line) or configure EmuLaunch (or other front end like M+GUI) to point to that "mame" file when it opens a MAME ROM.

[killsurfcity]

interesting. that's the one i got. i configured EMULaunch, but when i went to lauch a game, it showed the bounding box, and a % countdown, as if it was loading, and then kicked me back to the roms menu. any idea what's up?

[alfonzotan]

interesting. that's the one i got. i configured EMULaunch, but when i went to lauch a game, it showed the bounding box, and a % countdown, as if it was loading, and then kicked me back to the roms menu. any idea what's up?

Might want to check your ROMs folder and see if the Finder unwrapped the rom .zip file instead of opening it with SDLMAME.  That can happen if EmuLaunch isn't configured just right (and why I don't use EmuLaunch for Stella or Mugrat).  You also might want to try opening a game with the command line, just to see if SDLMAME is working at all.

Did you install the SDLMAME libraries first?  It won't work if you haven't done that:

http://www.libsdl.org/download-1.2.php

[killsurfcity]

yeah, SDL is installed. i found a message from emulaunch saying that any sdlmame version post 016 is not working via emulaunch due to some file path thing. anyway, i downloaded that version to see what's up, and it did launch a game, but it ran mega slow. complete with weird slow-motion audio. not sure why. should i be using a different frontend with sdlmame 140?

[alfonzotan]

yeah, SDL is installed. i found a message from emulaunch saying that any sdlmame version post 016 is not working via emulaunch due to some file path thing. anyway, i downloaded that version to see what's up, and it did launch a game, but it ran mega slow. complete with weird slow-motion audio. not sure why. should i be using a different frontend with sdlmame 140?

That's strange.  I've been running 0.142 SDLMAME/EmuLaunch for nearly a year without a hitch (but, Core2Duo 2.13 processor, a bit snappier than a G4).

But sure, try an older version and see if it gets any better.

EDIT:  The "post 016" thing was an old EmuLaunch bug, be sure you're running version 1.5.2 (the last release).

[BurgerKingDiamond]

Oh man, use the CRT!!!

[killsurfcity]

wait... what CRT? you mean the 17" LCD? that's what i'm using! 

so i tried sdlmame 136, and that does launch. however, it still runs mega slow. how do i configure sdlmame? maybe i need to set some params, framskip, video settings, etc.

[alfonzotan]

wait... what CRT? you mean the 17" LCD? that's what i'm using! 

so i tried sdlmame 136, and that does launch. however, it still runs mega slow. how do i configure sdlmame? maybe i need to set some params, framskip, video settings, etc.

Launch a game, hit TAB, you'll get a pop-up window with lots of settings.  Alternately, you can edit the MAME .ini settings file(s) by hand.

But the more recent versions of MAME may just be too bloated to run well on a G4.  Try the oldest version on the parodius site and see if it runs any better.

[404]

Not sure what the specs are on that powerbook but i have some g4 motherboards and processors somewhere around here. Some stuff out of a titanium mac. If any of that interests you, let me know. You can have them for the cost of shipping.

[killsurfcity]

i'm about to can this whole frontend thing. what a waste of time. i seriously can't believe what an epic train wreck this all is. i've wasted 2 days on this now. i could have built a second cab in that time!

tried mametunes. cannot figure out how to get it to recognize my roms folder. it's incredible. i've worked with all kinds of software like this before, and setting target is pretty much all you need to do... but mametunes seems to have it's own more convoluted way.

the "tab" menu in game doesn't let you adjust anything in terms of frameskip or other video settings, besides relatively useless stuff in terms of performance. and i don't seem to have an ini file. nor it seems does anyone in all of googledom know how to create one from terminal. this should all be way simpler than it is.

sorry for the rant, this is just another day down the tubes, where i could have been building. 

[alfonzotan]

Sorry you're having such a hassle... to create an mame.ini file, navigate in Terminal to the SDLMAME folder and then type, "./mame -cc".  You may need to create a roms folder inside the SDLMAME directory and put at least one ROM in there for the .ini file to generate.  Once you have it you can change it with TextEdit to put the rompath to whatever you want.

[killsurfcity]

thanks, but i'm done with it. today was my last day spent on software stuff. just too much wasted time. i saved the last hour of the day by getting my monitor support figured out, and mounted. I can probably post pics of the monitor in place tomorrow.

i also finally got ahold of my joystick and buttons, so i'm just waiting on some router bits, and an ipac to get the panel going. tomorrow i think i'll get the speakers mounted too, and start priming the cab. can't wait to get this sucker done!

[404]

hate to cross post but since there are a number of mac fans in this thread. figured i would give you guys a heads up. I put a few mac parts up in the freebies thread. Also added a pc mobo just in case any mac fans want to make the jump to pc for their mame projects.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38228.msg1243687#msg1243687

[killsurfcity]

so i made some decent construction progress yesterday. got the speaker mounts/grilles figured out, got the monitor mounted, powerstrip mounted, and the computer support built. it's getting there.


there's some vents underneath the computer for airflow


the speakers sound great in their new home, and for their size they really kick out bass. a little dodonpachi sounded fantastic!




the speaker grilles are drain filters. i think they'll look cool painted to match the cab


a little "testing", of everything working. my ipac can't get here soon enough.

tomorrow, i think i'll get the marquee lights in, and prime if i can get time.

[killsurfcity]

while i'm waiting for parts to arrive, (damn you amazon!) i thought i'd work on the art some. i was going for a hybrid new/old look, in a sort of fantasy/metal feel. so far, i'm pretty pleased with it.

[Le Chuck]

Snazzy.  Add the yella from the CP and Marquee onto the sides so it doesn't look so flat.  Retro can have depth.  Looking good so far. 

[killsurfcity]

thanks le chuck. i'll give the sides some more thought. i do like the simple geometrics though. and, i'm hand painting/stenciling whatever the side art is, so it has to be something relatively flat.

[Le Chuck]

If you're stenciling you gotta do a second layer.  Multi-layer stencils scream retro arcade.  My favorite stencil art is on the Paragon pinball.  Even sticking with geometrics you can really make it pop with a contrasting color used sparingly.

[killsurfcity]

wow! never seen one of those paragon machines. that is a gorgeous machine in every way. and yeah, using a bit of yellow on the side would make an impact for sure.

[Le Chuck]

Wanna buy mine? 

[killsurfcity]

ha, if this bartop won't kill my wife, that certainly would! 

[killsurfcity]

it's been a while. progress slowed some, due to me getting screwed over by amazon, and me just being unsure of the best way to move forward with certain parts of the build. anyway, i finally got ahold of a router and some bits (though still no slot cutter, dammit!) and i figured out the paint situation.



routed/cut freehand. pretty clean fwiw, doesn't matter because it's covered by the art and plexi in the end. love the recessed top mount. even without being screwed down, it feels real sturdy.



shaping up!



managed to round the corners pretty easily with an electric jigsaw with a very fine/slow blade. it's since been sanded, and looking real fine.



also, measured and blacked out the bezel. pics of that later.



hopefully, i'll be getting ahold of a flush trim bit, and a slot cutter soon. not being about to route t-molding is starting to drive me nuts.

[killsurfcity]

FINALLY! Got my router bits, so i took some time to finish all wood and cutting related tasks, and I'm finally ready to move forward with the project.



T-molding slots went pretty well all things considered



Flush trim bit worked like a charm

Next stop, finishing up the paint and beginning the wiring. Getting close!

[killsurfcity]

Delays, delays.  I learned an important less on from this build. I hate painting with a passion. I'd go into the living hell I've ben through trying to salvage this half-way decent looking paint job, but it's not important. What is important is that while it's not nearly as good as it could be, I'm ok with it, as in the end I just want to play some damn games already!

Finally got the T-molding on as well, which was delightfully easy, and looks great.

Decided to get the marquee plexi in place and discovered yet another blunder. (AAARGH!) 

As you can sort of see in the below pictures, i didn't leave enough clearance around the sides of the marquee to use brackets without them sticking out past the sides of the cab. It's not the hugest deal, but it's yet another aesthetic mis-step, and i'm afraid it's going to be on my mind every time i play the thing.



Anyone have any other suggestions? I was going to not use brackets initially, and t-mold the edges there, which would have worked, but at the time i didn't realize you need to route before assembly. I guess I could try to sand/shape the edges so the look more finished, but that could be a lot of work, and i'd be concerned about messing up the moldings.

Otherwise the paint looks pretty cool as long as you don't look too close, haha.

[dextercf]

This is starting to look pretty cool!

[killsurfcity]

Thanks! All in all I'm still stoked on it. I just need to settle this marquee issue in some way i can live with, and the rest of the build will be easy, as it's all hook up, which is the part i'm best at.

[killsurfcity]

Minor update. Working on the internals. I'll probably do some iPac wiring today. For now, text graphics for the marquee are in place, and looking pretty sweet!