Zaxxon arcade machine, connect monitor to PC ?

[spystyle]

Hello from Maine,

Well I'm back into the arcade hobby

I've built a few MAME cabinets with TV and LCD, but never an arcade monitor.

I got a working Zaxxon machine for $100 locally, it's in OK shape.

I bought it specifically to explore the whole "arcade monitor thing".

Is this monitor going to be easy to hook up to a computer ?

Will the image quality look much different to me from a TV or LCD ? Will it be amazing ?

Can you recommend a good arcade monitor crash course ? I don't know anything about them LOL

This will actually be my first experience with a working factory arcade machine, all the other ones I've ever had were empty or home made.

I will learn from this LOL

Thanks for any tips!
Craig

[SirPeale]

You haven't stated which monitor you have, but....


DO NOT MAME THE ZAXXON.

[spystyle]

Howdy Peale

"MAME" (in this context)
verb, to destroy a classic cabinet

OK, deal, I will not make irreversible changes to this cabinet

I bought this cabinet to disassemble, I've never had an arcade monitor before and If I remember correctly Mr.Salty making a big deal about it back in the day, they have a better look apparently () We'll see. I happen to like a sharp and light weight LCD these days!

Is Mr. Salty still alive ?

If you'd like an empty Zaxxon cabinet let me know LOL, I'll give it to you when I'm done with it.

I actually think it's one of the ugly cabinets. There are so many nice ones! Moon Patrol, Defender, Stargate,  Pac-Man, Centipede, Nintendo, Gauntlet, so many classic cabs are so lovely, then there is Zaxxon ... Not a looker in my opinion. It looks like an upside-down "L" to me. And the stepped bottom, I don't know what's up with that.

This one has swelled and chipped particle board with a sticker resembling stained plywood on it. These days I'd be inclined to rebuild it in nice plywood and stain it for real

Is it possible that one of the classics is ugly ? Or am I temporarily mad ?

As for identifying the monitor ...

I went to the basement and stuck my head into the back of the machine, the monitor has a sticker that reads "Nanao MC-2000-S".

So I guess I have a working "Nanao MC2000S"

Thanks for chiming in
Craig

p.s. Here is that monitor's manual :

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/ARCADE/S-Z/Sega%20MC-2000S%20%2820in%20Color%29%20%5BEnglish%5D.pdf

[ahofle]

It's not as easy as plugging in some LCD to your computer, but it's not as hard as people make it out to be either.  With an ATI card, Groovymame + Calamity's ATI drivers (check the groovymame forum for more info), you can get pretty much perfect resolutions which look exactly like the actual games with no screen tearing or refresh rate issues.  You basically need to cut one end of a VGA cable and use this pinout to connect the appropriate wires to the leads on your monitor:


Your monitor should have a (R)ed, (G)reen, (B)lue, (S)ync, and (E)arth or Ground like this:


I'm not sure how your monitor is powered, someone else will have to help with that one.

To answer your question, I think it is absolutely worth it seeing these games as they were designed to be seen.

[Blanka]

I actually think it's one of the ugly cabinets.

Just looked it up.. You're right! The game itself is SOO STYLISH, I did not expect it to be in a this ugly cab!
Coleco Zaxxon is ugly too.
TG I have Bandai Zaxxon. The prettiest of them all .

[spystyle]

Thanks for chiming in fellas

[ahofle]

Forgot to mention, if your monitor has only one Sync input (some have separate vertical and horizontal sync), then tie both H and V sync from the VGA cable together and connect to the Sync on your monitor.  This is called composite sync.

[spystyle]

Thanks

Are all arcade monitors basically the same ? ie : does this one represent most ?

Or is there a wide variety ?

Also, if I do not buy the ArcadeVGA card from UltimiMarc and attempt to make my own, is there is a big risk I'll kill the monitor ?

lastly, other than the obvious electrical shock is there anything I should look out for  ?

This is my first arcade monitor and I don't' want to break it LOL

Thanks!
Craig

[StephenH]

You need to make sure you are outputing standard resolution (not VGA res) to an arcade monitor like that.   It is probably best to get a copy of Soft15Khz if you don't want to go the ArcadeVGA route.

[spystyle]

Thanks

[Jack Burton]

This cab?

I think it looks bad ass.

[spystyle]

No, not that cab

But I agree that's a nice one

In fact, I would be inclined to rebuild my current Zaxxon into that exact cabinet.

I'd build that cabinet with real stained plywood rather than a sticker over particle board, it would be sweet

Now I need the cabinet blueprints ...

Cheers!
Craig

[boardjunkie]

http://api.ning.com/files/Hv1R0t8gTOBLe-VlQN50AVfVVQGTtq2T5apPTJpYQ9n9pBsHJh8czAskTEBAvACwGEqFsSwekKHrCVdG*f*TaZbV-ro4lW7W/zaxxon.jpg

Thats a std Zaxxon cab. Same as most generic Sega cabs of the era....

[Jack Burton]

I don't know, that one is pretty sweet looking too.  I like the coin mechs. 

I'm just a sucker for ugly vintage things.  I'd trade my Mortal Kombat or Ms. Pac cab for that.

[esaelectrionics]

i just used a j-pac from ultimarc for one of my cabs and it made wiring up easier(i have 2) but i don't know if zaxxon is a jamma cab?,
on the other cab I fitted a multi-sync monitor and took the monitor/wiring out and that looks and plays great!.
currently using advancemame/vsyncmame for dos, but am going to use groovymame when i get a better graphics card.





 

[boardjunkie]

Zaxxon predates JAMMA by quite a few years.....

[spystyle]

The JAMMA standard was invented in 1985; any game older than this will not be JAMMA.

(from the wiki) http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/JAMMA

Zaxxon is from 1982

Thanks I didn't know that

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Update :

Oh you can make Zaxxon into JAMMA with an adapter, apparently :

http://www.arcadegames.se/en/products/game-adapters/z-to-jamma-adapter.html

[ArtMAME]

You could paint it and make a Blaxxon out of it.

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=69872&highlight=blaxxon

[spystyle]

Thanks for chiming in, that cabinet is not as bad LOL

[Nephasth]

I don't know, that one is pretty sweet looking too.  I like the coin mechs. 

I'm just a sucker for ugly vintage things.  I'd trade my Mortal Kombat or Ms. Pac cab for that.

Where do you live? I've got an Exerion in a Zaxxon cab. Let's trade.

[matsadona]

Just to answer your first question - A (CRT) TV and an arcade monitor is basically the same thing. It is a CRT tube and some electronics.
The electronics for an arcade monitor is obviously lacking the tuner parts, but the rest is more or less the same.
An ordinary TV set has also some other electronics to coop with standard signals. Which in the US is composite video or s-vhs I guess. That has to be converted to the basic RGB(+sync) signals.
Arcade boards doesn't have this degrading signal conversion - they output the RGB signals, so the arcade monitor expects that signal.
Fortunately you can use an a standard VGA output from a PC (as already stated above) since that is analog RGB signals, if you want to go on the emulation road

The good thing with all this is that you can go out and buy cheap and used TV's to replace defect arcade monitors.

Finally - I cry a bit everytime I see or read about people scrapping or looting old dedicated arcade cabinets, regardless of how ugly they may appear (with todays standards). I will always encourage people to have a restoration as the first option as long as possible. They are not coming back.
But of course, if you have a cabinet in good shape and the internals are beyond salvation a MAME PC is better than putting it all on the junkyard.
If done right, moste people can tell the difference.

[spystyle]

I don't know, that one is pretty sweet looking too.  I like the coin mechs.  

I'm just a sucker for ugly vintage things.  I'd trade my Mortal Kombat or Ms. Pac cab for that.

Where do you live? I've got an Exerion in a Zaxxon cab. Let's trade.

I asked him in PM, he's in Kentucky. I want that Ms. Pac but I'm in Maine

and matsadona, thanks for the info

[Jack Burton]

Honestly, if anybody wants the cab it's theirs.  However, it is in very rough shape.  It was converted to a Capcom Bowling and I have since stripped and gutted it.  The only things remaining are the cabinet, the coin door, the glass bezel, speaker, and the glass marquee. None of the original parts are there save maybe the transformer.  The wood is in decent shape though, no water damage.  

[spystyle]

We could all just move to Kentucky and start a club

[spystyle]

Howdy, would this device make it easier to connect a PC to an arcade monitor ?

http://www.arcadespareparts.com/arcade_parts/video_converter/vga_rgb_cga_video_converter/12215.html

(alt link)

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/gbs-8100-hd-vga-to-cga-cvbs-s-video-game-converter-ntsc-pal.html

(alt link)

http://www.ebay.com/dsc/i.html?_sop=15&_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_nkw=%22GBS-8100%22&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_osacat=0&_odkw=%22GBS-8100%22

(alt link) :

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/vga-to-cga-pal-ntsc-video-converter-pcb-gbs8100.html

It's called "gbs-8100" apparently

According to this, the GBS-8100 does not save your settings :

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,136657.msg1411194.html#msg1411194

Oh here is a newer one called "GBS-8150" :

http://classics.paradisearcadeshop.com/video-converters-and-tools/54-yuv-vga-to-cga-converter-gbs-8150.html

[matsadona]

Howdy, would this device make it easier to connect a PC to an arcade monitor ?

http://www.arcadespareparts.com/arcade_parts/video_converter/vga_rgb_cga_video_converter/12215.html

Yes, it will make it easier configuration wise, since you don't have to mess with Soft 15kHz and finding correct drivers etc.
But it will degrade the picture in some extent when the picture is downscaled. If it will be acceptable? I have no idea, since I haven't used it.
There should be plenty of people here using that converter that can tell.

[mgb]

If you do go that route, I'm not sure about the trust level of that Chinese company but Paradise Arcade has these boards too.
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/video-converters-and-tools/55-cga-vga-hd-video-converter.html

[spystyle]

Thanks for the information

I'll post the results

[spystyle]

LOL, it's been a while, real life gets in the way of my projects

Anyway I still intend to use the Zaxxon monitor in a MAME cabinet, and I'll even give the old Zaxxon cabinet to Peale

I found this :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111269316096

(alt link)
http://www.ebay.com/usr/mamegame

An ATI card that outputs 15khz, is that card modified ? If yes, do "we" know how to modify cards to output 15khz ?

Does that card look like a good solution for hooking a PC up to a Zaxxon monitor ?

Thanks
Craig from Maine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://api.ning.com/files/Hv1R0t8gTOBLe-VlQN50AVfVVQGTtq2T5apPTJpYQ9n9pBsHJh8czAskTEBAvACwGEqFsSwekKHrCVdG*f*TaZbV-ro4lW7W/zaxxon.jpg

Thats a std Zaxxon cab. Same as most generic Sega cabs of the era....

Link fixed :
http://tinyurl.com/qedq7nv

Yeah mine looks like that but a little more beat up. I like the look of the "Blaxxon" though There is something about that sticker emulating stained plywood over particle board that just sucks LOL.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to answer your first question - A (CRT) TV and an arcade monitor is basically the same thing. It is a CRT tube and some electronics.
The electronics for an arcade monitor is obviously lacking the tuner parts, but the rest is more or less the same.
An ordinary TV set has also some other electronics to coop with standard signals. Which in the US is composite video or s-vhs I guess. That has to be converted to the basic RGB(+sync) signals.
Arcade boards doesn't have this degrading signal conversion - they output the RGB signals, so the arcade monitor expects that signal.
Fortunately you can use an a standard VGA output from a PC (as already stated above) since that is analog RGB signals, if you want to go on the emulation road

The good thing with all this is that you can go out and buy cheap and used TV's to replace defect arcade monitors.

(snip)

Does this imply we can make arcade monitors out of normal TV's ?

(edit)

Oh it was explained on Oscar's site :

http://web.archive.org/web/20061025183223/http://www.oscarcontrols.com/centipede/centi3.htm

We can make arcade monitors from TV's, apparently.

UPDATE :
You can turn a TV set into an RGB monitor for less than $100 using this service :

http://www.8liners.com/datatech/monitor.html

[SORHP]

I'd like to know if that generic ati card actually works well enough alone

[spystyle]

Yeah I wonder how that card compares to the Ultimarc one

[404]

Yeah I wonder how that card compares to the Ultimarc one

Pretty sure i've seen this guys stuff before. It's probably just a bios clone of the ultimarc units. Those are uber old X600 cards. They will work just fine for mame and other emulators that focus on 2D stuff.

[spystyle]

I see, so he has some kind of chip burner and copied an Ultimarc ? That's pretty slick. I've seen chip burners before for making PS1 modchips. I guess they are called EEPROM programmers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also wonder about powering the arcade monitor. I saved the Zaxxon power supply, but I am more familiar with ATX power supplies. Can I power the arcade monitor ("Nanao MC-2000-S") with an ATX power supply ?

So then I found this :

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=13484.0

And read this :

Yes, you need to keep the transformer to power the monitor you already have in the game. If you have some money you could buy a brand new monitor of the type that does not need an isolation transformer.

So apparently I need to keep the original power supply to power the monitor ?

[pbj]

But don't forget that Ultimarc cards "triple the signal voltage."

 

[spystyle]

But is it true or just marketing hype ?

[404]

I see, so he has some kind of chip burner and copied an Ultimarc ? That's pretty slick. I've seen chip burners before for making PS1 modchips. I guess they are called EEPROM programmers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also wonder about powering the arcade monitor. I saved the Zaxxon power supply, but I am more familiar with ATX power supplies. Can I power the arcade monitor ("Nanao MC-2000-S") with an ATX power supply ?

So then I found this :

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=13484.0

And read this :

Yes, you need to keep the transformer to power the monitor you already have in the game. If you have some money you could buy a brand new monitor of the type that does not need an isolation transformer.

So apparently I need to keep the original power supply to power the monitor ?

yes, quite a few older monitors rely on an isolation transformer. The easiest way to setup your rig is to simply have both the atx power supply sitting alongside and independent from the arcade power supply and isolation transformer. Leave both in there and use a power strip to power both of them on one outlet. Some guys have made clever hacks using power strips and relays to get a smooth power on to both the PC and monitor.

You can dump the bios to a number of ATI and Nvidia cards using common tools found online. I think that's what this guy did, find the most common ultimarc cards and simply dumped the bios, edited the Vendor ID and reflash a modded bios to the closest hardware he could find. It's been a very very long time since i messed with graphics cards but if i remember correctly, the early x series cards were nothing more than pci-express renditions of the old ATI 9 series cards.

But don't forget that Ultimarc cards "triple the signal voltage."

 

I've said it here and I'll say it again. I don't believe them when they say they developed this directly with ATI. Someone on another forum was actually quite vocal about this and posted quite a bit of info on the subject. This was way before i even got my hands on a CGA monitor. I personally still think this is too much of a pain in the rear to bother with.

[spystyle]

Interesting stuff

So can we collaborate to make our own "ArcadeVGA" cards ?
 
As for a relay hacked power strip, I make those for less than $5 here =

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128892.msg1317741.html

Have fun !
Craig

[404]

Interesting stuff

So can we collaborate to make our own "ArcadeVGA" cards ?
 
As for a relay hacked power strip, I make those for less than $5 here =

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128892.msg1317741.html

Have fun !
Craig

Unfortunately the only CGA monitor i have has some major horizontal width coil issues. Nobody seems to have the schematic for this little turd either. Probably going to just put up that cab on ebay as is for whatever i can get for it at this point.

I'm not much of a bios hacker but if you really wanted to make some money, hire yourself one of these ATI or Nvidia bios hackers to get 15khz output from one of the newer cards, specifically higher end hardware.


BTW. love your DOS boot disc!

[spystyle]

Oh that DOS boot disk is open source and needs your help LOL. Or just use TinyXP-Rev10. But thanks

Anyway I'd get a kick out of hacking video cards to be 15khz, like DIY ArcadeVGA

[404]

Oh that DOS boot disk is open source and needs your help LOL. Or just use TinyXP-Rev10. But thanks

Anyway I'd get a kick out of hacking video cards to be 15khz, like DIY ArcadeVGA

When i use XP on 32bit machines, i like to use MicroXP. As for the DOS Disc, this day and age, those classic VESA modes no longer work on most newer hardware as they did before.

You can just buy that AVGA card and dump the bios and do some experimentation. The unit that is being used is basically X600 hardware. A 109-A33431-00 which is essentially a 128mb x600/Fire Gl V3100. You can find them online second hand for as little as 10 bucks.