Sony crushes Nintendo

[Donkbaca]

What do you think?  Will the Vita crush the 3ds?  Same price, VIta looks like it can do way more stuff...

[Vigo]

The Vita looks real slick. The Name sounds almost as stupid as something Nintendo would come up with though. I think it's a better use of $250 than a 3DS.

Nintendo will hold their own IF they lower their price, and IF they actually get some good games.

I think Nintendo will end up lowering their prices, but having some good games is where I have my serious doubts....

[Donkbaca]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them.  That being said, I think that is mostly because the Nintendo handhelds were cheaper.  In the end it all comes down to games, and the Vita will have GTA, Infamous and a bunch of other games.  The 3ds better come with something better than a 3d nintendogs if they hope to hang on...

[Donkbaca]

I use my psp to play old console games.  I don't think any of the PSP games are that fun, yes even the GTA ones.

Games will eventually decide, but right now i have to give the edge to the PSP, though in reality the iphone wins, hands down, as far as portable gaming goes.

[SNAAKE]

where can I watch e3 footage online??

found some konami stuff on youtube. nothing on new systems like this vita(LOL?)

[Vigo]

i think there is a lot that is posted on G4TV.

[SNAAKE]

oh yeah sony IS raping nintendo. wii is a joke now. sold mine and bought playstation move


3ds and vita looks even though. both will have good library.

[javeryh]

I've said it multiple times - the PSP is better than the DS in every single way except for "fun".  Sony just doesn't get it when it comes to the handheld game experience, IMO.  I bought a PSP, did the hacks on it, and only used it as an MP3 player until I got an iPhone 4. 

This is exactly right.  I don't want to play Uncharted, GTA and all of those other huge AAA titles while I'm taking a dump.  That said, there are some fantastic "portable" games for the PSP but they are not publicized for whatever reason (Hot Shots Golf/Tennis, Half Minute Hero, Crush, etc.).  I mainly use it for emulation on the go - which it is great for!

[hypernova]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

[SavannahLion]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

[Necroticart]

what I see happening with the vita is cross play ie in the middle of a game and your wife wants to watch TV or you have to go to the bathroom you can now finish the game you started on the PS3. I have to say I definitely like what I've seen so far.

[Mario]

Most handhelds are bought for children. 

I believe that this is now more true than ever. Most adults have or will have smartphones, and have no desire to carry around multiple devices. Putting adult games on phones and leaving the handhelds for kids and maybe teens is probably the best way to go now.

There's one feature of the iPhone games that I now think every handheld should (or must) have: alleviate the player from having to save a game. I'd like to be able to turn off the device or switch games without having to manually save a game, and when I return I'm right back where I started. This should be automatic. And, I want the ability to "bookmark" a game at any point so I can return or replay as I desire. I wonder if Sony thought of doing this.

Mario

[Howard_Casto]

It will fail on the name alone.  Vita?  Sounds like something I would order from the Taco Bell menu only to get the runs 15 mins later. 

Sony fails with every portable, and this will be the case yet again.  The reason they fail is because they try to put home versions of their games, which are too slowly paced, on a portable.  That just doesn't work. 

Nintendo portables always pick up tremendous speed after the first price drop.  I know I didn't get a ds until it was dropped to around 150 and came with a game and that was around the time when it was flying off the shelf. 

[DaveMMR]

It will fail on the name alone.  Vita?

Wii was a horrible name and it didn't seem to affect their sales too much.

But I agree, it's not a terribly catchy name.

[I have to catch up on the E3 announcements before further commenting]

[Bootay]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

I agree 100% with everything in this post. Handhelds are more or less for kids and always have been since the original Gameboy. As an adult, when I do have time to play a game, I prefer to play it on my large TV. The only time I ever use any handheld is in the waiting room at a Dr. or Dentist or Hospital. Or if I am going some place that requires a lot of boring sitting around. I often bring them to family get togethers too.

But the problem with the PSP (like Castro had already mentioned) is they release games like God of War, Assassins Creed, and Silent Hill on it. These are adult geared games and most adults only use handhelds for short periods of time. Games like WarioWare, Tetris, and New Super Mario Bros. are way more fitting for this type of experience.

[Mikezilla]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

I have said that 100 times in other threads 

[geomartin]

Paid $150 for a brand new Caanoo and I love the thing.  Hands down best portable I've had because I can easily load MAME, NES, Etc. and don't have to worry about having to hack the thing to get it to work.  My kids have had all the Nintendo handhelds thru the years and I very rarely find a game I want to play on them. 

[SavannahLion]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them.  

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

I have said that 100 times in other threads  

I usually don't bother reading your crap.   

[Howard_Casto]

Well the Wii name sounded stupid... until they started the "Wii would like to play" commercials and it was damned brilliant.  So no, I think the Wii was a pretty good name. 

On the other hand all Sony could do would be a "Living la VITA loca" ad.  Probably not the best of ideas considering their demographic. 

I can agree with a lot of what you guys are saying in terms of smartphones.  Smartphones for me at least, are a waste of money though.  When I need a cell, I need to make phone calls on it and that's it.  Now if I can get a phone that does a lot of stuff with my phone plan then that's great, but I'm sure as hell not paying cash money for a cell, especially several hundred dollars... phones are free... everybody knows that. 

In terms of gaming they are severly lacking as well.  Mostly they are lacking in terms of hardware.  Myself I need buttons to play anything more complex than tic-tac-toe properly.  Smartphones have either crappy buttons or lack them completely.  Also smartphones lack big developers.  You are never going to see a big nintendo or 360/ps3 hit on the iphone or ipad, simply because they would be shooting themselves in the foot.  Generally speaking, the only "real games" you see on a smart phone are ports of really old classics, which is fine, but again, no buttons to play them with.

I use my DS almsot exclusively for waiting rooms, and for me that makes it well worth the purchase.  The current gen of portables seems a little pricey to me, but then again, so did the last gen... I simply waited until the price went down. 

That's why Vita will have issue... not many "waiting room games" will be released on that system. 

[Dartful Dodger]

I never had an interest in buying a DS.  The only thing stopping me from buying a PSP was the price.
It was already said, but if Sony's device and Nintento's device are the same price, Sony wins.



Really, you're not going to by a product just because it's names sounds to Hispanic for you, really?

Chevy's Nova failed in Mexico because in Spanish Nova literally translates to "no go".

The only association I have with Vita is: "Sony's better portable".

If Sony named it Nofun then maybe there would be a point about the name.

[versapak]

Really, you're not going to by a product just because it's names sounds to Hispanic for you, really?

Vita is Latin or Italian anyway, so his Taco Bell reference was a few meatballs shy of a spaghetti sauce.


I agree, the name will have nothing to do with whether or not this thing will sell.

[Mikezilla]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them.  

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

I have said that 100 times in other threads  

I usually don't bother reading your crap.   

Nice. Its too early for me to come up with a witty retort. 

[shmokes]

You are never going to see a big nintendo or 360/ps3 hit on the iphone or ipad, simply because they would be shooting themselves in the foot. 

Madden, Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, Dead Space . . .

These are just a few AAA that are games available on the iPad.  And they're full-fledged iterations of the games--not just dumbed down mobile versions (well, GTA is a Chinatown Wars port from the PSP/DS, rather than the 3D version from PS3/360, but still a long, deep game).  Obviously Nintendo will never release a game for iOS because they only make games for their own systems, but the same isn't true for third party publishers.  And considering the number of iDevices in the wild they would be stupid to ignore them.  Ignoring them would be shooting themselves in the foot, not the other way around.

Moreover, there are TONS of brilliant games that can only be done or are done best on a touch screen.  The very best version of World of Goo in existence is the iPad version.  Same goes for Plants Vs. Zombies.  And Christ . . . if you think brilliant gaming can't be done on a smartphone you are not aware of Sword and Sworcery.  Check out the videos.  Read the reviews.  It's an utterly brilliant adventure game experience.  Then you've got Puzzle Quest, Angry Birds (which is actually a super crappy game, but people seem to like it), Solipskier, Field Runners, and so so many more.  Smart phones have evolved into a totally legitimate gaming platform with some super compelling stuff.  

[shmokes]

Play with headphones.  If you don't have headphones handy just wait till later to play it.  You lose too much without them.

[Dartful Dodger]

Tablets are going to kill smart phones and handhelds.

The Asus tablet is awesome. It's $200 more than I want to spend on a portable email reader/writer.


BTW: price is the only reason I’m not buying one, not because it’s brand name sounds like asses or reminds me of Acer.

[Vigo]

Asus and Acer are both really good brands, IMHO. They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

[TOK]

Tablets are going to kill smart phones and handhelds.

No way are tablets killing smart phones. They will put the beatdown on netbooks and low end laptops, but I can't imagine anyone who'd want to carry a 10x10" tablet around to use as a phone.

[shmokes]

They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

Lord . . . no they don't (or at least not without good cause).  The Cube got no attention.  The original Apple TV (and to a large extent the Apple TV 2) got no attention.  Apple products frequently do get attention because they're frequently way better than anything else out there.  The Mac Mini is a footnote. 

Pre-iPad Acer and Asus tablets ran Windows.  Do you seriously not see the problem there?  They were also too heavy and most (all?) of them relied on resistive (rather than capacitive) screens designed primarily to be manipulated with a stylus.  The iPad did what it did because Apple made a phenomenal product backed by a phenomenal app ecosystem, not because of the logo on the back of it.

For what it's worth, my phone is a Blackberry and my primary computer is a Windows 7 machine (an OS that I prefer to OSX).  The only Apple machines I own are my iPad and my wife's 6-year-old Powerbook.  I'm not an Apple fanboy.  I'm just not a silly Apple-hater either.  They make spectacularly good products.

[versapak]

They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

Lord . . . no they don't (or at least not without good cause).  The Cube got no attention.  The original Apple TV (and to a large extent the Apple TV 2) got no attention.  Apple products frequently do get attention because they're frequently way better than anything else out there.  The Mac Mini is a footnote. 

Pre-iPad Acer and Asus tablets ran Windows.  Do you seriously not see the problem there?  They were also too heavy and most (all?) of them relied on resistive (rather than capacitive) screens designed primarily to be manipulated with a stylus.  The iPad did what it did because Apple made a phenomenal product backed by a phenomenal app ecosystem, not because of the logo on the back of it.

For what it's worth, my phone is a Blackberry and my primary computer is a Windows 7 machine (an OS that I prefer to OSX).  The only Apple machines I own are my iPad and my wife's 6-year-old Powerbook.  I'm not an Apple fanboy.  I'm just not a silly Apple-hater either.  They make spectacularly good products.

Exactly.

The iPad is an great product that runs a great OS.

Other than a couple of old iPods (pre iPod touch), the iPad is the only apple device I have ever owned.

[Vigo]

The iPad is an great product that runs a great OS.

iOS a great OS? Barf. Any "OS" that only allows you to only use applications that are pre-approved by apple is no OS in my book. I wouldn't consider buying an iPad without jailbreaking it.

I'll take a windows OS tablet any day above iOS simply because I can do whatever I want with it. And I have been using apple products since Mac OS System 7. (Earlier if you include the Apple IIe  )

[Loafmeister]

They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

Lord . . . no they don't (or at least not without good cause).  The Cube got no attention.  The original Apple TV (and to a large extent the Apple TV 2) got no attention.  Apple products frequently do get attention because they're frequently way better than anything else out there.  The Mac Mini is a footnote. 

Pre-iPad Acer and Asus tablets ran Windows.  Do you seriously not see the problem there?  They were also too heavy and most (all?) of them relied on resistive (rather than capacitive) screens designed primarily to be manipulated with a stylus.  The iPad did what it did because Apple made a phenomenal product backed by a phenomenal app ecosystem, not because of the logo on the back of it.

For what it's worth, my phone is a Blackberry and my primary computer is a Windows 7 machine (an OS that I prefer to OSX).  The only Apple machines I own are my iPad and my wife's 6-year-old Powerbook.  I'm not an Apple fanboy.  I'm just not a silly Apple-hater either.  They make spectacularly good products.

I think three other reasons why the Ipad is the big hit it is:  Battery life, cheap good apps and instant on.  Seriously, aside from the need for itunes (bloated piece of crap code but thankfully iOS 5 will negate the need of it), having such a long battery life (10 hours) really has cut the cord for me, it's become my favorite platform. It's not perfect but what a great experience.  have you used Splashtop?  That pretty much removes any negatives (like lack of Flash for some).  What a great app.

Vigo:  Bad OS?  I can appreciate you want an open OS but having a closed OS has its advantages.  There certainly is room for improvement though.

[Loafmeister]

Forgot to add relevant to the topic:  I think the Vita is damn nice hardware but powerful hardware begats powerful $$$ development time for the games.  Yes, I know Sony said "games will be easy to port from the PS3" but having libraries that support such a task doesn't mean it's easy when the CPU and GPU are totally different; at best this will mean assets will be easily convertable.  Now comes the tough part, the Vita is rumoured to have 256 megs of ram which is half what the PS3 has.  Does'nt seem to be that "easy to port".

I think the $5-$10 tablet/smartphone price point on games is going to be a killer for the Vita (and 3DS) towards their $40-50+ games.  They'll be faced with either ports to save on cash, but most anyone with a Vita probably has already played it, which is why straight ports don't always work. Original content that looks fantastic? Then the price point needs to be much higher.

Also, about the ability for Vita to continue from your current save, I'm sure it's possible but I'll believe this is a great "feature" when I see it. IE: I don't think devs will allow the one copy of a game to work on both the PS3 and the Vita (which is a lot more different hardware wise to the PS3 than Sony's letting on). Rather, I know it's possible, and I'm sure Sony may sacrifice one or two games to have such an option (just to show it works) but let's see 3rd party devs think this is a good idea.  If you can sell someone a game twice instead of once, what do you think they'll pick?  For this to work and be supported, it literaly would have to be a near zero dev cost option for them to support it; I just don't see that possible at this time.

Before anyone thinks I'm an anti-Vista guy (eheh), let me tell you, I'll probably buy it if I see the market support it. I think the 5" screen is a must for an old man like me , and the hardware IS damn impressive. I just think the direction the market is going in leads people away from spending a lot of cash for "on the go" gaming, and I believe hardcore portable gaming at $40+ a pop for a game is pretty much about to die.  Sony/Nintendo I'm sure are cursing Apple and Android on a daily basis and if MS has anyone with vision, they're celebrating the fact they didn't get into the portable market.  So the Vita may be great, like the PSP was great but the biggest problem with the PSP is hardware sold well, games sold poorly.  I think history will repeat itself but much worse. Hope I'm wrong, I want one.

Here's something else to consider:  Anyone see the onlive tablet demo?   For as much as they were being laughed at as a DOA project, THAT may be the future of portable gaming.   No NEED for big hardware, the online service (or others of its type) will handle most of that for you.

Finally (for real):  SuperBrothers: Sword and Swordcery is damn cool, but you really need to be a fan of old-style adventure games. But the music?  Maybe one of the best game soundtrack ever.  It's that good.

[shmokes]

iOS a great OS? Barf. Any "OS" that only allows you to only use applications that are pre-approved by apple is no OS in my book. I wouldn't consider buying an iPad without jailbreaking it.

I'll take a windows OS tablet any day above iOS simply because I can do whatever I want with it. And I have been using apple products since Mac OS System 7. (Earlier if you include the Apple IIe  )

So principaled!  I assume, then, that you've never owned a Nintendo, Sega, Sony or MS videogame console.

The problem with a Windows OS tablet is the OS.  It's not made (well-made) for that form-factor.  So it isn't widely adopted in the tablet space because it sucks to use.  Since it isn't widely adopted developers  don't develop for it (applications with a tablet UI, that is).  So not only does it suck to use the OS, but it sucks to use the apps, because they aren't designed for the tablet form-factor.   

Obviously the only proof you need of this is Windows 8.  Windows 8 is Microsoft's first OS made for tablets.  Tablet PC was just Windows with handwriting recognition and a pop-up keyboard.  Everyone, including Microsoft, but excluding you apparently, knows this.

[Dartful Dodger]

Tablets are going to kill smart phones and handhelds.

No way are tablets killing smart phones. They will put the beatdown on netbooks and low end laptops, but I can't imagine anyone who'd want to carry a 10x10" tablet around to use as a phone.

I got my first smart phone two years ago, and I love it I can't believe it took me so long to get one. At that time I told myself (and this board) I’ll never go back to a dumb phone.

Now I'm just going to hold on to it until it dies and when it does I'm going back to a dumb phone and getting a tablet.

A tablet is just for killing a few minutes with games web surfing and email. A smart phone only better.

When tablets start coming with a real OS (Widows) and we can install all programs to them, they’ll kill the laptops too.

[Vigo]

iOS a great OS? Barf. Any "OS" that only allows you to only use applications that are pre-approved by apple is no OS in my book. I wouldn't consider buying an iPad without jailbreaking it.

I'll take a windows OS tablet any day above iOS simply because I can do whatever I want with it. And I have been using apple products since Mac OS System 7. (Earlier if you include the Apple IIe  )

So principaled!  I assume, then, that you've never owned a Nintendo, Sega, Sony or MS videogame console.

The problem with a Windows OS tablet is the OS.  It's not made (well-made) for that form-factor.  So it isn't widely adopted in the tablet space because it sucks to use.  Since it isn't widely adopted developers  don't develop for it (applications with a tablet UI, that is).  So not only does it suck to use the OS, but it sucks to use the apps, because they aren't designed for the tablet form-factor.   

Obviously the only proof you need of this is Windows 8.  Windows 8 is Microsoft's first OS made for tablets.  Tablet PC was just Windows with handwriting recognition and a pop-up keyboard.  Everyone, including Microsoft, but excluding you apparently, knows this.

It's obvious the difference in point of view here is that we are thinking of the iPad as something different. I am looking at the iPad as a computer, a do-all personal computer. You are looking at it as a separate media gadget, specifically to do the certain common functions you are interested in, just like the video game consoles you referenced. Funny thing is, while apple does label the iPad as a do-all computer, the general public notion is that is is a media gadget.

Since your view of its function fits with your needs, I can quite easily see why you are satisfied. Me, I am a guy who, when buying a computer, intends to use the computer for whatever needs I may have. My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with, and I don't want apple tying the hands of perfectly capable developers that have applications that I would be interested in buying.

I am not demanding a whole lot from Apple. Simply a legitimate means for users to purchase and download applications from outside their approved bubble of an app store. Apple fears users gaining root access to the iPad, but who cares? They bought the machine, they can do with it what they want. It's completely ironic how today, Microsoft is the open platform, and Apple is the restrictive platform. 

In all fairness, I think both of our points of view are valid.

[Harakiri]

Here in Portugal both PSP and Playstation 3 sold more than Nintendo Wii and Nintendo 3DS. I remember when everyone was waiting in line at superstores to grab theirs, such reaction didn't happen here. It's a cultural matter i believe, portugueses are not attached to icons such as Link or Super-Mario, they rather graphics and fresh titles above everything else.

[versapak]

It's obvious the difference in point of view here is that we are thinking of the iPad as something different. I am looking at the iPad as a computer, a do-all personal computer. You are looking at it as a separate media gadget, specifically to do the certain common functions you are interested in, just like the video game consoles you referenced. Funny thing is, while apple does label the iPad as a do-all computer, the general public notion is that is is a media gadget.

Since your view of its function fits with your needs, I can quite easily see why you are satisfied. Me, I am a guy who, when buying a computer, intends to use the computer for whatever needs I may have. My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with, and I don't want apple tying the hands of perfectly capable developers that have applications that I would be interested in buying.

I am not demanding a whole lot from Apple. Simply a legitimate means for users to purchase and download applications from outside their approved bubble of an app store. Apple fears users gaining root access to the iPad, but who cares? They bought the machine, they can do with it what they want. It's completely ironic how today, Microsoft is the open platform, and Apple is the restrictive platform.  

In all fairness, I think both of our points of view are valid.

The iPad isn't looked at by anybody, apple or anyone else, as a do all computer.

As for it being only apps that apple allows... I have to say so what to that. I also own an android phone, and I would take the iOS apps and its store over the android one any day of the week. Apple iOS has more focus, while android is chaos, and that leads to higher quality on iOS.

Not everyone will find use with a tablet, but anyone that hasn't even tried one has no valid perspective on them. They are primarily media consumption devices, and shouldn't be bought for any primary function other than that, though you may find that you can do plenty of that as well.

[shmokes]

My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with

And I reiterate, you must have never purchased a videogame console before with principles like that.

It's not that there is no merit to your point of view.  There is.  Apple's decisions about what can and cannot be on the iPad are sometimes super obnoxious.  But you're missing the forest for the trees.  The Tablet PC cannot do whatever you want with it, because nobody develops for it..  Because it sucks.  It sucks balls.  I had a Tablet PC for years--a Motion Computing Slate.  The best on the market when I got it.  I still have it, I suppose . . . it just hasn't been turned on in ages.  They suck.  And the Tablet features are so poorly integrated it seems like an April Fool's joke.  Things like, when you mark up a page in Word or One Note with handwriting, but then add text somewhere in the middle of the document, the handwritten notes don't get shifted down with the typed text, so suddenly all of your markups are utter nonsense. Seriously, people, this is what happens in Microsoft-developed applications that have explicit Tablet PC handwriting support.

What you are doing is taking one negative aspect of the iPad (the closed platform), completely ignoring the ways in which that negative actually has some positive benefits, then blowing it all out of proportion so that it eclipses all the wonderful aspects of the device.  You are then utterly ignoring the fact that virtually everything about Tablet PC is garbage, and focusing on only one positive aspect -- that it's an open platform.  So you can theoretically do whatever you want with it.  Only you can't actually do anything with it because, in spite of their great freedom, nobody writes programs for it.

I'm excited for Windows 8.  In my brief experience with Windows Phone 7 (like 5 minutes total) it has struck me as far far better designed then iOS.  And I like Windows 7 more than OSX (for laptops and desktops, of course).  But Tablet PC is retarded.  And the iPad is spectacular.  The new Galaxy Tab apparently is too, though (just hit retail like today or yesterday or something).  So it's not like you can't get a phenomenal tablet right now without going with Apple.  Of course, you can still do way more with the iPad thanks to the way better App store, but I expect that'll change soon enough.  

[Vigo]

The iPad isn't looked at by anybody, apple or anyone else, as a do all computer.

Sure it is, especially since tablets have been a do-all computers up until the iPad came out. Not to mention that Apple's angle of advertising that it can "do all".

My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with

And I reiterate, you must have never purchased a videogame console before with principles like that.

Sure I have, but a Nintendo never pretended to do anything more than play a purchased cartridge stuffed into it.


Also, I know what you mean about the Windows Tablet issues. Not gonna pretend otherwise. My point of view is more that there isn't a whole lot that requires tablet functionality, and I can just use any old windows program for whatever I want on that tablet. I don't want a crippling phone OS binding my hands on the tablet though.

I think the whole this is a two steps forward, one step back sort of thing. The new tablets like the iPad are amazing with how slick they operate, but they are shutting major doors of access to the tablet at the same time. 

[Donkbaca]

Anyone expecting anything close to the functionality of a 800
iPad from a Nintendo controller is going to be very disapointed 

[shmokes]

My point of view is more that there isn't a whole lot that requires tablet functionality, and I can just use any old windows program for whatever I want on that tablet. I don't want a crippling phone OS binding my hands on the tablet though.

Heh . . . This used to be my point of view when I had my Tablet PC.  People were always asking me about it and I would always tell them to save their money unless they could articulate a real use for the tablet functionality because in my experience, everyone I knew with one used it exclusively with keyboard and mouse once the novelty wore off.  You are a man who hasn't spent any time with an iPad.  Clearly.

You have arbitrarily concluded that a "phone OS" cripples a tablet even though you have experienced first-hand the train wreck that is Windows (a desktop OS) on a tablet.  

And I'm still unclear what it is that anybody is pretending the iPad can do that it cannot.  I don't see how the iPad pretends to do anything other than run apps purchased at the App store any more than a Nintendo pretends to do anything but play software purchased for it.  And god knows nobody is going to think the iPad would be suitable for something that requires a keyboard since it doesn't have one.  For that matter nobody is buying iPads only to find out to their surprise that there's no MS Office suite or Adobe Creative Suite for it.  For that matter, the iPad has extremely high customer satisfaction (unlike Tablet PC).  Don't you think all these people who were duped into buying one by this supposedly misleading marketing campaign would be unhappy with their purchase?  Don't you think maybe the iPad wouldn't continue to fly off shelves?

Honestly, it sounds like you're just making assumptions because you want to dislike it.  Cos this stuff you're saying simply isn't true and I cannot imagine where you would be getting these ideas.  Btw, if you want to see marketing for a Tablet that pretends the devices are capable of things that they are actually useless for, you might have a look at Tablet PC.  Think about it, if the touch-functionality on your tablet went bad it would have virtually no impact on you whatsoever.  Because you use your Tablet PC in traditional laptop mode about 99% of the time.  Because Tablet PC is virtually useless.  

The only reason Tablet PC let's you do whatever you want with your device is that the Tablet PC has convinced you that, let me just quote you here, "There isn't a whole lot that requires tablet functionality.". It's a beautiful thing really.  Microsoft reduced your expectations to near zero, then proceeded to satisfy you by delivering nearly nothing.  

[shmokes]

Anyone expecting anything close to the functionality of a 800
iPad from a Nintendo controller is going to be very disapointed 

FWIW an iPad is only $500.  Actually $400.  An iPad 2 is $500.  Anything you pay beyond that is for expanded storage and 3G.  I assume nobody wants 64 GB of storage and a 3G radio in a videogame console controller, so it's silly to compare the controller to the iPad that comes with those extras.  Also, the iPad is filled with processors to run programs while all the Wii U processing is done by the console.  Since it is essentially just a dumb screen and nothing much else it could well be expected to perform as well as the iPad for far less money.  Afterall, the Wii U console contains far more CPU and video processing power than an iPad.  The only things i can see stopping it from performing on par with or even far superior to the iPad is the resistive instead of capacitive screen and, perhaps, any lag introduced by streaming the video signal wirelessly.  Considering the excellent results we're seeing from stuff like wireless HDMI, though, I imagine the latter problem is probably pretty avoidable.

[RandyT]

The only reason Tablet PC let's you do whatever you want with your device is that the Tablet PC has convinced you that, let me just quote you here, "There isn't a whole lot that requires tablet functionality.". It's a beautiful thing really.  Microsoft reduced your expectations to near zero, then proceeded to satisfy you by delivering nearly nothing.  

You are thinking about that statement absolutely backwards.  With previous tablet designs, the thrust has been to make not-specifically-designed-for-a-tablet apps easily usable with a tablet.  Additionally, focus was placed upon augmenting those experiences through the functionality of the more technologically sophisticated, 256 levels of pressure digitizing devices (not simple resistive touch-screens, as you mentioned earlier) with things like handwriting recognition.  It is Apple who began artificially limiting applications for their device which work especially well within the limitations of the hardware.  This gives the appearance that the hardware is better, but in fact it limits what users can do on the device.  With traditional Windows based tablets, one can do anything they would normally do on a desktop system (though not always as well) and other things which are more suited to a tablet.

BTW, I can draw, write, play games and use applications with the stylus on my older generation tablet PC, while naturally resting my hand on the face of it.  Try that with an iPad, or any other of the current crop of "phone OS based" tablets out there

Why print anything when you can have it on your phone that you're already carrying anyway?  Hell, you don't even need to print a boarding pass anymore.

Paper doesn't need batteries.

As for the Vita, I think Sony did an amazing job on the device.  While handhelds may be "for kids", the high price tags tend to indicate that they are for older ones.  And in the market which these devices exist, it seems pretty evident that Sony will have the edge.  One has to wonder if all of the pre-release speculation on the high price of the Vita was seeded by Sony to A: make the device seem like a great deal when it was released at a much lower price point and B: to goad Nintendo into setting the price of their 3DS as high as they did.  If any of that is true, it would have been pure genius on the part of Sony.

[Vigo]

And god knows nobody is going to think the iPad would be suitable for something that requires a keyboard since it doesn't have one.  For that matter nobody is buying iPads only to find out to their surprise that there's no MS Office suite or Adobe Creative Suite for it.  For that matter, the iPad has extremely high customer satisfaction (unlike Tablet PC).  Don't you think all these people who were duped into buying one by this supposedly misleading marketing campaign would be unhappy with their purchase?  Don't you think maybe the iPad wouldn't continue to fly off shelves?

I'm sure plenty of people believed this would function like any other tablet Computer. Why? Because apple calls it a tablet Computer. A product that has been around for about a decade. I'm sure a lot of people looked at it and said "this is not for me" after seeing that it can't do the things that other tablet computers do for them. Put me in that boat. Now if the thing just Ran Mac OS, I would probably be as happy as a clam.

Also, No Adobe? I thought it did have Adobe. Since The Adobe suite is some of my highest used applications, and one of the biggest reasons I like tablets (works better than a wacom for my needs), I am actually really surprised they they don't have at least the adobe elements lines available.

And I guess I see a ton of limitations with an ipad that were not there in previous tablets. I honestly don't know for sure the answers to these questions below, but these are just a few common things I have doubts that I can do, or do easily on an iPad:

* Can I uninstall the OS, and upgrade with another OS like Linux? How about even a future iOS. I know the thing can upgrade, but can it install a complete new revision iOS?
* Can I play emulators without jailbreaking the iPad?
* Can I Install that copy of Escape Velocity I had on my powerbook, or any game on any of my computers for that matter?
* Can I attach my racing wheel to play any of my racing games?
* Can I work on programming my indie game have been working on on my other computers?
* Can i download via torrent, without jailbreaking?
* Can I attach an external CD drive and rip my music collection?
* Can I upgrade ram or HDD?
* Can I plug in my gaming keyboard and mouse?

[RandyT]

I don't even buy printed books anymore, and I read more now than I have in many years.

So, basically, I'm telling you that you're too old.

E-books are fine....it's entertainment, and not important.  But since you seem not to grok the distinction, I'm saying that relying solely on a mobile electronic device for something as important as a boarding pass is a bit foolhardy.  But to each his own.   

[versapak]

I don't even buy printed books anymore, and I read more now than I have in many years.

So, basically, I'm telling you that you're too old.

E-books are fine....it's entertainment, and not important.  But since you seem not to grok the distinction, I'm saying that relying solely on a mobile electronic device for something as important as a boarding pass is a bit foolhardy.  But to each his own.  

How is that at all foolhardy?

It is no different than relying on that piece of paper. Either you have it or you don't.


Your talk of batteries is just ridiculous. I have never, and I repeat never, had my battery be an issue. Even if you aren't capable of regularly keeping your phone charged, I am sure that you could, at the very least, manage to have it charged going for showing your boarding pass. Otherwise you probably are not competent enough to keep track of that piece of paper either.



Vigo: I have not met anyone with an iPad that thought it was going to be anything more than it was (not to be confused with people that have found that they don't use it as much as they thought they would).

Apple doesn't market the iPad as if it was even related to those prior tablets. Most people didn't even no those things ever existed.

Also... I have a keyboard for my iPad, and it has worked just fine as a computer replacement for 90% of what I do, whether it be school or anything else. It has adequate apps for use as an adequate replacement for any casual computer use. If you need more professional use of a computer, then you will still need that full PC/Mac/whatever, but then the iPad is not marketed as a replacement for that.

[RandyT]

How is that at all foolhardy?

It is no different than relying on that piece of paper. Either you have it or you don't.

Unless you are using that piece of paper for everything else, as well as the boarding pass, it's not an apt analogy.  My nephew's very nice Android phone suddenly stopped working on him.  Touch screen went haywire while he was texting someone, and it quit working.  Good thing he wasn't waiting for a flight when it happened.  Drop a phone on a hard surface while playing a game or sit on it by mistake, good possibility of a cracked screen or broken phone, and you are screwed.

There's nothing at all wrong with having the convenience of being able to do some of these things with an electronic device.  But unless you are the type who goes on a trip without cash in your pocket, relying solely upon a credit card (also a bad idea), then you probably don't buy as fully into the 100% electronic philosophy as you think you do.

[versapak]

How is that at all foolhardy?

It is no different than relying on that piece of paper. Either you have it or you don't.

Unless you are using that piece of paper for everything else, as well as the boarding pass, it's not an apt analogy.  My nephew's very nice Android phone suddenly stopped working on him.  Touch screen went haywire while he was texting someone, and it quit working.  Good thing he wasn't waiting for a flight when it happened.  Drop a phone on a hard surface while playing a game or sit on it by mistake, good possibility of a cracked screen or broken phone, and you are screwed.

There's nothing at all wrong with having the convenience of being able to do some of these things with an electronic device.  But unless you are the type who goes on a trip without cash in your pocket, relying solely upon a credit card (also a bad idea), then you probably don't buy as fully into the 100% electronic philosophy as you think you do.

You say that as if nothing could possibly happen to a piece of paper.

I have lost cash on a trip, and I have had credit card issues. **** happens, regardless of whatever method you choose to rely on.

If my phone fails, the chances of my wifes phone or my iPad failing at the same time are pretty darn slim.

[Vigo]

Vigo: I have not met anyone with an iPad that thought it was going to be anything more than it was (not to be confused with people that have found that they don't use it as much as they thought they would).

Apple doesn't market the iPad as if it was even related to those prior tablets. Most people didn't even no those things ever existed.

Also... I have a keyboard for my iPad, and it has worked just fine as a computer replacement for 90% of what I do, whether it be school or anything else. It has adequate apps for use as an adequate replacement for any casual computer use. If you need more professional use of a computer, then you will still need that full PC/Mac/whatever, but then the iPad is not marketed as a replacement for that.

Meh. My parents almost got Buffaloed into getting an iPad to replace their PC. From advice from a friend they went to check the iPad out. The apple sales rep went on and on about how it can do anything that their old PC can do and more. My parents are not too tech Saavy, but they are good with the specific tasks they do on the computer. They bought in right until the end when they were smart enough to ask very specific questions along the lines of how my dad was working on a project to digitize old home videos and put them on DVD, how my mom was digitizing and cataloging her artwork projects, how they were wanted to use their current scanner and printer, move over their old computer games that were marketed as "for Apple and PC". Upload their Photo CD's. etc, etc.

There are more people than you think that believed that the iPad was a bona fide tablet computer that can replace or do more than any other computer. You can't blame them, when they flat out call the thing a tablet computer and have commercials advertising CEO's, doctors, artists, musicians and teachers using the tablet to perform their major job functions.

Also, for the keyboard, can you use any ps2 or usb keyboard? Or do you need to buy a specific ipad keyboard. Also, can you compliment the keyboard with a mouse?

[RandyT]

Everything's a risk, but again, I'm much more likely to keep track of my phone than a piece of paper. 

It's probably my military training, but I believe in always having a "plan B".  Like I said, the ability to be completely paperless is a nice idea.  But when dealing with things of any real importance, it's seldom fully practiced.  I will have a printed boarding pass, and real money with me when traveling, as well as the "convenient" methods of achieving those same ends.  If you choose not to, that's fine too!  It's all about the level of risk you are willing to assume, but to say someone is "old" because they aren't willing to assume those higher risks is, to put it mildly, silly.

[versapak]

Everything's a risk, but again, I'm much more likely to keep track of my phone than a piece of paper.  

It's probably my military training, but I believe in always having a "plan B".  Like I said, the ability to be completely paperless is a nice idea.  But when dealing with things of any real importance, it's seldom fully practiced.  I will have a printed boarding pass, and real money with me when traveling, as well as the "convenient" methods of achieving those same ends.  If you choose not to, that's fine too!  It's all about the level of risk you are willing to assume, but to say someone is "old" because they aren't willing to assume those higher risks is, to put it mildly, silly.

Silly, but true.


heheh

I have multiple electronic devices able to have my boarding pass, so I do have a backup. It just isn't on paper.


Vigo: I can't really speak on their experience, but that seems like they just had a crappy sales person. It doesn't matter what you are buying, there are crappy salespeople somewhere selling it.

As for keyboard... I have the Apple bluetooth keyboard, but I am pretty sure that it just works with bluetooth keyboards in general.

I would never get rid of my PC, because the iPad can't actually replace it fully, but it has fully replaced my need for a laptop. It does pretty much everything that I ever needed my PC to do on the go, and it does it with about 3 times or more of the battery life.

[Mikezilla]

Everything's a risk, but again, I'm much more likely to keep track of my phone than a piece of paper. 

It's probably my military training, but I believe in always having a "plan B".  Like I said, the ability to be completely paperless is a nice idea.  But when dealing with things of any real importance, it's seldom fully practiced.  I will have a printed boarding pass, and real money with me when traveling, as well as the "convenient" methods of achieving those same ends.  If you choose not to, that's fine too!  It's all about the level of risk you are willing to assume, but to say someone is "old" because they aren't willing to assume those higher risks is, to put it mildly, silly.

Im with Randy on this. Nowadays ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- craps out all the time, and I myself feel better knowing that I have something tangible when I need it. Electronic things can also be manipulated, when something is in writing it is concrete. I wouldnt keep track of my phone over "a piece of paper" as important as a boarding pass, a passport, or cash. It also depends on where you are travelling. You go down to baja, nobody accepts credit cards, and you dont get any phone service because youre in a third world country.  

[versapak]

Everything's a risk, but again, I'm much more likely to keep track of my phone than a piece of paper. 

It's probably my military training, but I believe in always having a "plan B".  Like I said, the ability to be completely paperless is a nice idea.  But when dealing with things of any real importance, it's seldom fully practiced.  I will have a printed boarding pass, and real money with me when traveling, as well as the "convenient" methods of achieving those same ends.  If you choose not to, that's fine too!  It's all about the level of risk you are willing to assume, but to say someone is "old" because they aren't willing to assume those higher risks is, to put it mildly, silly.

Im with Randy on this. Nowadays ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- craps out all the time, and I myself feel better knowing that I have something tangible when I need it. Electronic things can also be manipulated, when something is in writing it is concrete. I wouldnt keep track of my phone over "a piece of paper" as important as a boarding pass, a passport, or cash. It also depends on where you are travelling. You go down to baja, nobody accepts credit cards, and you dont get any phone service because youre in a third world country. 

Umm... Context is everything.

If I am going somewhere that my phone can't be relied on, then I am not going to rely on it.

Preparation and readiness is key. If you are not able to plan your trip properly, then you invite problems.

[Vigo]

Everything's a risk, but again, I'm much more likely to keep track of my phone than a piece of paper. 

It's probably my military training, but I believe in always having a "plan B".  Like I said, the ability to be completely paperless is a nice idea.  But when dealing with things of any real importance, it's seldom fully practiced.  I will have a printed boarding pass, and real money with me when traveling, as well as the "convenient" methods of achieving those same ends.  If you choose not to, that's fine too!  It's all about the level of risk you are willing to assume, but to say someone is "old" because they aren't willing to assume those higher risks is, to put it mildly, silly.

Im with Randy on this. Nowadays ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- craps out all the time, and I myself feel better knowing that I have something tangible when I need it. Electronic things can also be manipulated, when something is in writing it is concrete. I wouldnt keep track of my phone over "a piece of paper" as important as a boarding pass, a passport, or cash. It also depends on where you are travelling. You go down to baja, nobody accepts credit cards, and you dont get any phone service because youre in a third world country.  

I'm the same way too. If I lose/destroy a paper document, it is either completely my own fault or I just failed to sucker punch the guy who is trying to physically steal it from me. Anything on a electronic device is leaving one more thing to chance or leaving one more vulnerability open. Especially when every portable electronic device I ever owned has failed at least one time on me when I didn't expect it. Now that I am a parent, I am expecting an even higher rate of electronics failure.

Vigo: I can't really speak on their experience, but that seems like they just had a crappy sales person. It doesn't matter what you are buying, there are crappy salespeople somewhere selling it.

As for keyboard... I have the Apple bluetooth keyboard, but I am pretty sure that it just works with bluetooth keyboards in general.

I would never get rid of my PC, because the iPad can't actually replace it fully, but it has fully replaced my need for a laptop. It does pretty much everything that I ever needed my PC to do on the go, and it does it with about 3 times or more of the battery life.

Versapak, I think we are agreeing about a lot here. I personally need more from a tablet than the ipad offers, and know others in the same boat who associate it along with any other tablet computer, because it calls itself a tablet computer. You and those around you see the ipad for exactly what it is, and are satisfied with it as a complimentary device. 

The ipad is what it is, and to be honest I would take one in a heartbeat. I guess i see the ipad's capabilities have been blown out of proportion, and sure, a lot by sales people trying to get themselves a commission.

[Mikezilla]

Everything's a risk, but again, I'm much more likely to keep track of my phone than a piece of paper. 

It's probably my military training, but I believe in always having a "plan B".  Like I said, the ability to be completely paperless is a nice idea.  But when dealing with things of any real importance, it's seldom fully practiced.  I will have a printed boarding pass, and real money with me when traveling, as well as the "convenient" methods of achieving those same ends.  If you choose not to, that's fine too!  It's all about the level of risk you are willing to assume, but to say someone is "old" because they aren't willing to assume those higher risks is, to put it mildly, silly.

Im with Randy on this. Nowadays ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- craps out all the time, and I myself feel better knowing that I have something tangible when I need it. Electronic things can also be manipulated, when something is in writing it is concrete. I wouldnt keep track of my phone over "a piece of paper" as important as a boarding pass, a passport, or cash. It also depends on where you are travelling. You go down to baja, nobody accepts credit cards, and you dont get any phone service because youre in a third world country. 

Umm... Context is everything.

If I am going somewhere that my phone can't be relied on, then I am not going to rely on it.

Preparation and readiness is key. If you are not able to plan your trip properly, then you invite problems.

Umm...yeah I know. We were basically talking about going paperless and relying on our phones werent we?

Of course, I agree with you on that. Hell, I dont even take my phone on me when Im travelling, unless its for business of course. If its pleasure, I leave the damn thing at home. I think I was born in the wrong time period. I hate technology sometimes.

[versapak]

Umm...yeah I know. We were basically talking about going paperless and relying on our phones werent we?

Of course, I agree with you on that. Hell, I dont even take my phone on me when Im travelling, unless its for business of course. If its pleasure, I leave the damn thing at home. I think I was born in the wrong time period. I hate technology sometimes.

I simply meant the context of the trip being taken.

If you are talking about a trip to some 3rd world country, then you are talking about something completely different than a trip from Pennsylvania to California.

You got the point though, so I won't harp. I just wanted to point out that I was not speaking about the context of the thread, but the situation being talked about in the thread.

[shmokes]

With previous tablet designs, the thrust has been to make not-specifically-designed-for-a-tablet apps easily usable with a tablet.  Additionally, focus was placed upon augmenting those experiences through the functionality of the more technologically sophisticated, 256 levels of pressure digitizing devices (not simple resistive touch-screens, as you mentioned earlier) with things like handwriting recognition. 

The problem is that the approach of tacking tablet compatibility onto existing "not-specifically-designed-for-a-tablet" apps has been incredibly ineffective (see my comments about Microsoft Office's tablet integration, for crying out loud).

As for the Wacom digitizer, relatively few tablets have had that level of sophistication in the pen input.  But even fewer consumers have any use for it.  Don't get me wrong.  Wacom makes great products that serve some important niches, but even most people who would be inclined to use a stylus for taking notes or marking up documents or writing in the margins of e-books, don't need 256 levels of pressure.  They just need on and off.

I'm not saying that there's nothing a Tablet PC can do that can't be done on an iPad.  Obviously that would be absurd.  I'm saying that for the vast majority of people an iPad is a better fit by leaps and bounds.  Have a desktop or notebook and an iPad, because if you (you being the average person) instead get a Tablet PC you'll just waste money on tablet functionality that is virtually never, ever used.  But you'll most likely use your iPad every single day.  And even for people who need a Tablet PC because they use the digitizer for design or to interface with an electronic medical record system or something, those people would be better off having an iPad in addition to the Tablet PC because using the Tablet PC for anything other than what you must is awful.  The browser sucks on Tablet PCs.  Hell, the process of just waking your Tablet PC up and opening the browser sucks on a Tablet PC.  Reading books sucks on them.  Even watching movies sucks comparatively because Tablet PCs are all at least twice as heavy as an iPad.  Playing games generally sucks on Tablet PCs.  Reading the news sucks on Tablet PCs.  Trying to use the device one-handed sucks on a Tablet PC.  Every single content consumption activity (with the exception of Flash content) is inferior on a Tablet PC, and even a lot of content creation activities fall in the same boat.

Essentially doing anything on a Tablet PC sucks compared to doing the same thing in an iPad app.  There are a few things that simply cannot be done with an iPad app because of hardware or lame Apple limitations.  Almost without exception if they can be done on a Tablet PC they are technically possible, but no sane person would choose to do them that way because the implementation is so poor.

[RandyT]

No offense, but I fight "we can't do that" people like you professionally on a daily basis.  It's never about changing the damn procedure, it's always about tweaking the same moronic way we already do things in hopes that the fundamental problems will go away.

You can stop putting words in my mouth for a start, and maybe you'll find that I never uttered them.  But if you are fighting them on a daily basis, maybe you aren't correct.  You haven't said what experience you have under your belt to allow you to make such determinations, or in which field you work.

Why do you need a magical receipt proving your identity?  You have to establish identity before you go through the door.

Using the phone as a surrogate is a half-assed solution BUT I'm already carrying my phone and I'm not going to carry around a broken phone.  You can also obtain another phone and get ahold of that magical barcode.  We should be just swiping an ID card as we're herded onto the planes (or maybe they can embed a chip in our forearms?   )

It's a lot easier to forge electronic credentials.  Identity theft / PSN anyone?  My driver's license and passport are still tangible items.  When governments put out the iPhone combination Driver's License/Social Security Card/Passport/World Citizen app, then we can probably consider the two on par.  My guess is that we will probably have bigger fish to fry at that point.  But the forearm chip is a great idea for when that becomes a reality .

[shmokes]

But the forearm chip is a great idea for when that becomes a reality .

Verichip is FDA approved.  You can have one implanted today.  They're pretty easily cloned with inexpensive hardware, though, so you might want to hold off.

[ChadTower]

I was in Nova Scotia a couple weeks ago.  Pretty much my whole adult family was there all in the same motel.  This is probably 15 adults and I'm the only one who doesn't regularly carry a cell phone.  The remnants of the MA tornado storm came through around 11:30pm and knocked out power to half the province.  It didn't come back until mid morning.  I had my wife's cheapo old cell phone with me.  Guess how many of us had a working cell phone in the morning?  Yep, just me.  That's a whole group of educated adults who have been carrying cell phones for years and the only one who had a usable charge after 12 hours without power was the one guy who never carries one.  I didn't need it but I was also the only one with a 12v charger.

I just shake my head whenever I hear someone say "I never have battery problems with my mobiles".

[versapak]

I was in Nova Scotia a couple weeks ago.  Pretty much my whole adult family was there all in the same motel.  This is probably 15 adults and I'm the only one who doesn't regularly carry a cell phone.  The remnants of the MA tornado storm came through around 11:30pm and knocked out power to half the province.  It didn't come back until mid morning.  I had my wife's cheapo old cell phone with me.  Guess how many of us had a working cell phone in the morning?  Yep, just me.  That's a whole group of educated adults who have been carrying cell phones for years and the only one who had a usable charge after 12 hours without power was the one guy who never carries one.  I didn't need it but I was also the only one with a 12v charger.

I just shake my head whenever I hear someone say "I never have battery problems with my mobiles".

It is not like I am new to carrying a mobile. I am 35, and I have had one since I was 20. Obviously they have changed a bit, but all the same. I am very aware of my battery usage. If I was in a situation where I was going to need my phone for something specific, and there was a loss of power, then my phone would have been turned off until it was needed.

I also have a backup battery/charger that I take on trips.

Again, it is about preparation and readiness.

If there is great importance tied to your phone working, then you take the necessary precautions. If something outside of your control happens, then so be it. Again... **** happens regardless of whether or not you are using a piece of paper or one of them there new fangled contraptions.

[ChadTower]

What you say makes sense.  It just doesn't match the behavior I see in pretty much everyone. 

[Mikezilla]

When the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- hits the fan, Im relying on my wits, my guns, and my canned food. The satellites are going to drop out of the sky making phones useless anyway when Skynet takes over.

BTW Im not a survivalist weirdo out in the ozarks, I was just kidding about most of that. Even though I do have guns, wits, and canned food. 

[Vigo]

I actually like reading survivalist stuff. Not that I really need it, but I know random crap like how to make your own iodine pills. 

[Mikezilla]

Haha awesome! Is that for the fallout? I read an article about how to steralize water with bleach, thought it was cool. 

[shmokes]

I read an article about how to steralize water with bleach, thought it was cool. 

That must have been a long article:

"To sterilize water with bleach pour some bleach into the water.  Stir or, if circumstances permit, shake."

[Howard_Casto]

You are never going to see a big nintendo or 360/ps3 hit on the iphone or ipad, simply because they would be shooting themselves in the foot. 

Madden, Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, Dead Space . . .

These are just a few AAA that are games available on the iPad.  And they're full-fledged iterations of the games--not just dumbed down mobile versions (well, GTA is a Chinatown Wars port from the PSP/DS, rather than the 3D version from PS3/360, but still a long, deep game).  Obviously Nintendo will never release a game for iOS because they only make games for their own systems, but the same isn't true for third party publishers.  And considering the number of iDevices in the wild they would be stupid to ignore them.  Ignoring them would be shooting themselves in the foot, not the other way around.

Moreover, there are TONS of brilliant games that can only be done or are done best on a touch screen.  The very best version of World of Goo in existence is the iPad version.  Same goes for Plants Vs. Zombies.  And Christ . . . if you think brilliant gaming can't be done on a smartphone you are not aware of Sword and Sworcery.  Check out the videos.  Read the reviews.  It's an utterly brilliant adventure game experience.  Then you've got Puzzle Quest, Angry Birds (which is actually a super crappy game, but people seem to like it), Solipskier, Field Runners, and so so many more.  Smart phones have evolved into a totally legitimate gaming platform with some super compelling stuff.  

Thsoe aren't nintendo, sony or microsoft games, they are third party games.  Console exclusives, like it or not, sell systems.  What I meant by that statment is you aren't going to see a 60 dollar game released on the ipad or simialr device that gets the sales figures of a mega-hit from one of the big three.  And for that reason, even the third party game developers (the big ones, not the ones that make crappy flash games) aren't going to invest a lot of time or money into ipad exclusive games.  Yes those are full fledged interations of crappy old home console games.  Home console games, due to length and content, are not well suited for mobile gaming.  I thought we've all went over that several times?  Regardless, can you honestly say that those ports are anything more than barely playable due to inferior touchscreen controls?

The there in lies the point.  You need buttons, it's as simple as that.  Yes people buy several of these games for their ipad, but only because they cost like 2 bucks and they've suddenly realized that they've spent several hundred bucks for what is essentially a giant toy with very little business value and want to try to justify the cost of the machine.  Do people play games on the ipad and are there (arguably) good games on the ipad?  Sure!  Do people buy ipads and smart phones just for gaming.  Definately not!  Are gamers willing to buy a seperate device just for gaming because the gaming potential on a phone is limited.  Definately!!!!  This is why portables will never go away until a phone is made that works just as well as a traditional gaming machine as it does as a phone.  You know, like the N-Gage.... only not a worthless piece of crap that fails as both a phone and a console.

The problem with your argument that there are a lot of games that play well on a touch screen is the fact that at this point all portable consoles have touch screens.  They also have buttons, meaning you have more game design options.

But just to go down your list:

World of Goo.... best version is on the wii.  (Not a portable but still).

Plants vs Zombies... while I consider this sort of game a "game" like I consider tic-tac-toe a game, it plays fairly well on any system, but plays best on the pc.... touch screens are too inprecise.  Regardless, it's a grid-based game essentially, I don't see how mouse/touch controls really improve it.

Sword and Sorcery.... well I suppose if you like that sort of thing that's nice.  It just remind me of those lame flash games you find on the net, the ones they try to make look all retro, but as you play it you can't help but have the feeling that something is a bit "off" and you are more aware of this than anything else.

All the other games you have mentioned are mini games.  Mind you I like shorter games on portables, but I also expect some depth to go with it.  My general rule of thumb is that if it's a game you can download on the pc at a site like wildtangent or popcap games, it isn't a deep enough game.  They are great time killers, but I wouldn't even go so far as to say they are fun and I defiantely couldn't see buying a smart phone just to play them.  On the other hand there are often games released on a portable (nsmb comes to mind) that make me want to go out and buy it, just for that one game.  We are getting back to my first point on this one... no "killer apps". 


I guess to put is simply, saying that the smart phone is comparable to the ds, 3ds, psp or vita is like saying your old motorola is comparable to a gba because you could play snakes on it. 

[shmokes]

You're right that Madden, Splinter Cell, etc., would play better with a gamepad.  On the other hand it's just silly of you to say that the best version of World of Goo is on the Wii.  I own both.  There's no room for difference of opinion beyond enjoying the added difficulty introduced by using the Wii's jittery, far less precise controller.  Don't get me wrong, I first played, finished, and loved the game on the Wii.  It is far superior on the iPad.  You have never played it on the iPad and are instead relying on presumptions.  Given your historical hard-on for all things Microsoft, I suspect that your presumptions are extrapolated largely from your Tablet PC experiences (or perhaps your Pocket PC or even DS experiences, I suppose).  This is a mistake.  You need to spend some time with an iPad.  What you think you know about it is comically off the mark.

Similarly, your suggestion that the iPad's screen is too imprecise for PvZ makes it clear that you haven't used the device.  

Clearly there are many types of games that will always play better on a gamepad than a touch screen.  But the converse is just as clearly true.  And this is not necessarily limited to mini-games.  World of Goo and Puzzle Quest are about as deep as it's possible for puzzle games to be.  Moreover, narrative depth can be found in the myriad of RPGs and point and click adventures for the device.  In fact, the remakes and re-releases of games like the Monkey Island and the Broken Sword series is a testiment to just how well-suited the iPad is to point-and-click adventures (but don't think the genre is only represented by classics, there is great new work being done in the genre with things like the new Back to the Future and Sam and Max series, not to mention the spectacular Sword and Sworcery).

Btw, as far as phone gaming is concerned perhaps you'd be interested in checking out the new Xperia Play (aka Playstation Phone).

[Vigo]

I read an article about how to steralize water with bleach, thought it was cool. 

That must have been a long article:

"To sterilize water with bleach pour some bleach into the water.  Stir or, if circumstances permit, shake."

I'm pretty sure he is talking about drinking water. Where the point would be to sterilize water and keeping it drinkable. Hence the need to sterilize water.

I actually just read up on bleaching water just now.. It is pretty interesting. I guess it is a less unhealthy and more effective method than the iodine tablets which are the standard purification tabs used today. I guess it is just that bleach breaks down so quickly so it is not used.

[Howard_Casto]

You're right that Madden, Splinter Cell, etc., would play better with a gamepad.  On the other hand it's just silly of you to say that the best version of World of Goo is on the Wii.  I own both.  There's no room for difference of opinion beyond enjoying the added difficulty introduced by using the Wii's jittery, far less precise controller.  Don't get me wrong, I first played, finished, and loved the game on the Wii.  It is far superior on the iPad.  You have never played it on the iPad and are instead relying on presumptions.  Given your historical hard-on for all things Microsoft, I suspect that your presumptions are extrapolated largely from your Tablet PC experiences (or perhaps your Pocket PC or even DS experiences, I suppose).  This is a mistake.  You need to spend some time with an iPad.  What you think you know about it is comically off the mark.

Similarly, your suggestion that the iPad's screen is too imprecise for PvZ makes it clear that you haven't used the device.  

Clearly there are many types of games that will always play better on a gamepad than a touch screen.  But the converse is just as clearly true.  And this is not necessarily limited to mini-games.  World of Goo and Puzzle Quest are about as deep as it's possible for puzzle games to be.  Moreover, narrative depth can be found in the myriad of RPGs and point and click adventures for the device.  In fact, the remakes and re-releases of games like the Monkey Island and the Broken Sword series is a testiment to just how well-suited the iPad is to point-and-click adventures (but don't think the genre is only represented by classics, there is great new work being done in the genre with things like the new Back to the Future and Sam and Max series, not to mention the spectacular Sword and Sworcery).

Btw, as far as phone gaming is concerned perhaps you'd be interested in checking out the new Xperia Play (aka Playstation Phone).

No, now you are making assumptions.  I've played around with the iphone/ipad.  I don't like them and I don't like gaming on them for the reasons I've described above.  I've also never ever tried a windows/m$ based tablet.  Tablets are crap, regardless of the manufacturer.  When I can get a tablet that has a touch screen as dead-on accurate as a mouse and contains a pc with as much procesing power as your typical pc and has an unlocked os that allows you to freely develop software and install it to the machine I'll think about it, but not until. 

In regards to world of goo, you and I have had this argument over and over... for whatever reason, your personal wii setup has issues because you are always claiming that any motion controlled games pointing ability is jittery and imprecise while I can play the same game and it's spot on for me.  I can't help it that for whatever reason it doesn't work for you.  The game was desgined for you to point at targets with a wand, not click on a screen, this is why it's superior on the wii... you get to play it as intended.

I never said that the touch screen was too imprecise for PvZ... I said that the pc version was MORE precise after you said that the ipad was the best platform to play it on.  I also commented that point and click controls aren't really needed for that game anyway. 

In terms of depth, WOG doens't count because again, it's a home console game and better suited for the wii (regardless it would fall into my "old ports of games you've already played on a console" category) and puzzle quest... well if you consider that game to have depth then I worry about you.

Yes, so smartphone devices are good for the completely dead and buried genre of point-and-click games, allowing you to play both the sub-par telltale game titles recently vomited onto the world as well as 15-20 year old games the nobody wants to play anyway.   So I guess it's got that going for it. 

Maybe I should redefine my point this way.....  The "games" you are using for you defense aren't really games from my point of view.  Yes, of course technically they are and of course there are different genres of games for everyone.  When I say games though I mean action games.  This doesn't really have anything to do with my game preference, but rather the preference of gamers in general.  You would have to admit that the large majority of games people play, both on home consoles and portables are action oriented right?  Well guess what smart phones can't do well?  That's right, action games.  From street fighters, to fps, to platformers to even something as mundane as tetris, when given the choice, you can play a game where timing and precision of movement is required better with buttons and a dpad rather than a touch screen. 

I terms of your smartphones you only have three control schemes that work.

1.  Pointing and clicking.....  this works really well, but the resulting games are really boring and in terms of gameplay aren't much better than the ancient games that came out when cell phones were in their infancy. 

2.  Non-action based games....  again, these work, but they are so dull who cares?  Theya re also unpopular, not by my opinion but by the majorities.

3.  Tilt-sensor games.  These work fantastic, but the fact that the screen tilts when you tilt the "controller" hurts gameplay somewhat.  I know some of the racers on the ipad look like they would make me sick to my stomach.

And keep in mind, I'm not arguing with you over which games are "better"  or anything, I'm arguning over which games are more popular and over which games gamers will purchase a system over.

[Blanka]

Vita runs Honeycomd, takes a SIM cards, does Skype calls, and plays MAME and MESS. Even my iPhone can't do that. Win for the PSV!

[versapak]

I never said that the touch screen was too imprecise for PvZ...

Plants vs Zombies... while I consider this sort of game a "game" like I consider tic-tac-toe a game, it plays fairly well on any system, but plays best on the pc.... touch screens are too inprecise. 

 


If you require actual physical buttons for your gaming, then so be it. Some people just can't get used to the touch screen, and I can fully admit that in many cases physical controls would be ideal.

That being said... World of Goo and Plants vs Zombies are both at their best on the iPad. For anyone to argue differently, they just haven't actually played them on the iPad. <==PERIOD

[shmokes]

And keep in mind, I'm not arguing with you over which games are "better"  or anything, I'm arguning over which games are more popular and over which games gamers will purchase a system over.

Actually you didn't say anything about sales so much as that you need physical buttons to play anything more complex than Tic Tac Toe and that there are no major developers making games for the iPad.  Both of which are just silly comments.

Also, you're imagining my complaints about the Wii's pointer.  I've always said that the pointer was the only part of the controller that works properly.  But, like any free-motion pointer controller, it's jittery by the nature of how it's used.  It's imprecesion is not severe enough to spoil World of Goo.  Not at all.  The iPad is just better, is all.

Seriously, Howard, the list of great iPad games is super long.  Square has an RPG on the system (the name is escaping me at the moment) that goes toe-to-toe with console RPGs.  And why woldn't it?  You tap the screen where you want to go, and when a fight breaks out you navigate the turn-based battle menus with greater ease than you can with a gamepad.  Settlers of Catan on the iPad is fantastic, as are Scrabble and Ticket to Ride.  FIFA and Tiger Woods Golf are both great for the iPad.  Supposedly Madden is too, but I've never played it.  Mirror's Edge was super fun.  Multiplayer Field Runners with my wife was some of the most fun I've had with videogames in years.  Infinity Blade, while on rails, is some of the best, most satisfying sword fighting ever made (ironically better than anything the Wii controllers have delivered).  Point-and-click adventures, as I suspect you secretly agree, can be amazing, and there are great ones, both old and new available on the iPad.  A brand new You Don't Know Jack was just released.  Death Rally and Reckless Racing are supurb top-down racers with excellent controls (they'd control even better with a gamepad, but they're not a problem on the touch screen).  Civilization is great and it's much better on the iPad than the DS. Flight Control and Osmos are simply excellent games, both of which would suffer if moved to a gamepad or PC.  Tilt games do not suffer by virtue of the screen tilting.  The opposite is, of course, true.  They feel much more natural because you don't just see a graphical representation of the the game board tilting.  It actually tilts.  There are some really good games that use this functionality.  Games far better than Monkey Ball (though, that's there too, if you're into that).  Also, there are some great 2D platformers available, like Max's Magic Marker and Soozis.

On top of that nowhere-near complete list are kids-apps/games.  My daughter has a drawing pad in which she can pull a drawer out from the edge of the screen which contains crayons, paint brushes, pencils, markers, etc., in dozens of colors.  There are also a ton of stationaries and stickers and other fun extras.  When she finishes a drawing she can email it to Grandma or post it to Facebook.  She did all of this at 3 (she's 4 now).  There are countless educational apps too.  She already reads in full sentences, counts above 100, tells time, adds and subtracts most numbers below 20, knows her days of the week and months of the year and seasons.  She starts Kindergarten this fall.  Obviously I could teach her all these things without the iPad, but the iPad puts them in fun games that work well and are intuitive to use even for toddlers (unlike a gamepad).  And I haven't even begun on interactive children's books.  The adaptation of Sesame Street's There's a Monster at the End of This Book is utter genious, and is light years better than its dead-tree counterpart.  And there are dozens of Dr. Seuss books available, all better than the originals.  I currently have about 90-100 interactive children's books for the iPad.

In short, you can't play Zelda on the iPad any better than you can play World of Goo or Trauma Center on the Xbox 360.  But that doesn't make the 360 a bad system; it just makes it not suited for certain games.

Also, FWIW, you can use bluetooth gamepads on the iPad and Onlive is coming out for it shortly, with support for its own wireless gamepad.


Edit:  fixed some strange typos.  I'll freely admit that onscreen keyboards leave somehting to be desired. 

[RandyT]

I've also never ever tried a windows/m$ based tablet.  Tablets are crap, regardless of the manufacturer.  When I can get a tablet that has a touch screen as dead-on accurate as a mouse and contains a pc with as much procesing power as your typical pc and has an unlocked os that allows you to freely develop software and install it to the machine I'll think about it, but not until. 

Gotta love it.   

Howard, desktop systems are always going to outpace the thing you can carry around with you.  That's just the way things work.  If you give a designer unlimited resources, he will do his best to take advantage of as much of those as is reasonably possible.  Portable versions of nearly anything require compromises, because the resources available to the desktop (unlimited power, cooling capacity, physical size, etc..) are more flexible.  That is not to say that the experience is necessarily going to be poor.  Technology marches on, and what used to require desktop level resources, now does not. 

If it's "dead on" accuracy you want, then forget poking at a screen with your greasy finger .  It'll never do it for you.  Go for a resistive screen and a stylus.  Contrary to the assumptions about this technology, it can be very sensitive and deliver very close to the same experience as a capacitive screen.  Better yet, look for a tablet which uses technology along the lines of a Wacom digitizer.  If using a stylus doesn't bother you, you get the advantage of precision and the ability to rest your hand on the screen without affecting your control.

If you can pony up a couple hundred bucks, one of the best older gen tablets you can buy is the TC1100.  Here's an example on eBay of what appears to be a great system and price.  I won't list everything it can do, but thanks to the iPad, the used market has been flooded with these very capable, high-end feature laden tablets.  They run Windows XP, as well as Windows 7.  Thanks to the on-board nVidia chipset, they even do a great job with touch-screen-style gaming.  There are also USB ports for real controls.

If you pick up one of these units and deck it out, and still feel that tablet PCs are "too imprecise" or can't run real applications, then feel free to talk dookey about it all you want.  But honestly, it's pretty clear that you are not up to speed on what has been available on the tablet scene for many years, or what they can do.

[Mikezilla]

I read an article about how to steralize water with bleach, thought it was cool. 

That must have been a long article:

"To sterilize water with bleach pour some bleach into the water.  Stir or, if circumstances permit, shake."

I'm pretty sure he is talking about drinking water. Where the point would be to sterilize water and keeping it drinkable. Hence the need to sterilize water.

I actually just read up on bleaching water just now.. It is pretty interesting. I guess it is a less unhealthy and more effective method than the iodine tablets which are the standard purification tabs used today. I guess it is just that bleach breaks down so quickly so it is not used.

Thank you for that Vigo, I didnt think I needed to clarify that considering what you and I were talking about. Thats the tricky part too, knowing how much bleach to put in, the people drinking it, and the amount of water to be purified. Good ol Shmokes, never a shortage of dick comments when he is around.

[ChadTower]

Thank you for that Vigo, I didnt think I needed to clarify that considering what you and I were talking about. Thats the tricky part too, knowing how much bleach to put in, the people drinking it, and the amount of water to be purified. Good ol Shmokes, never a shortage of dick comments when he is around.

That reminds me.  Where did Mr C go? 

[Vigo]

He's obviously been at least lurking, as he was active last as of a few days ago.

[shmokes]

Good ol Shmokes, never a shortage of dick comments when he is around.

My goodness . . . it's nothing of the sort!  I simply miscalculated how serious you were about bleach-based water sterilization.  Had I known I never would have treated the subject with such insensitivity.

[Donkbaca]

To sum up the thread:

Hey that new sony thingy looks neat, you think it will give the 3ds a run for its money?
I hate nintendo
Nintendo rocks
I like my iphone
Your iphone is retarded
Hey water is good to drink sterile
You are dumb
I am not dumb... dick
Sorry for calling you dumb

[Vigo]

To sum up the thread:

Hey that new sony thingy looks neat, you think it will give the 3ds a run for its money?
I hate nintendo
Nintendo rocks
I like my iphone
Your iphone is retarded
Hey water is good to drink sterile
You are dumb
I am not dumb... dick
Sorry for calling you dumb

Wow, we are more on topic than usual.

[Dartful Dodger]

Bleaching water?

Kids today have it so easy.

When I was your age, if there was a zombie apocalypse, we'd have to make a fire by rubbing to sticks together and boil our water.


Remember kids, you can eat your poop indefinitely, but you can only drink your pee once.

[Mikezilla]

Good ol Shmokes, never a shortage of dick comments when he is around.

My goodness . . . it's nothing of the sort!  I simply miscalculated how serious you were about bleach-based water sterilization.  Had I known I never would have treated the subject with such insensitivity.

Har Har. 

[Mikezilla]

To sum up the thread:

Hey that new sony thingy looks neat, you think it will give the 3ds a run for its money?
I hate nintendo
Nintendo rocks
I like my iphone
Your iphone is retarded
Hey water is good to drink sterile
You are dumb
I am not dumb... dick
Sorry for calling you dumb

Talk about cliff notes. Way to rock. 

[Howard_Casto]

And keep in mind, I'm not arguing with you over which games are "better"  or anything, I'm arguning over which games are more popular and over which games gamers will purchase a system over.

Actually you didn't say anything about sales so much as that you need physical buttons to play anything more complex than Tic Tac Toe and that there are no major developers making games for the iPad.  Both of which are just silly comments.

Also, you're imagining my complaints about the Wii's pointer.  I've always said that the pointer was the only part of the controller that works properly.  But, like any free-motion pointer controller, it's jittery by the nature of how it's used.  It's imprecesion is not severe enough to spoil World of Goo.  Not at all.  The iPad is just better, is all.

Seriously, Howard, the list of great iPad games is super long.  Square has an RPG on the system (the name is escaping me at the moment) that goes toe-to-toe with console RPGs.  And why woldn't it?  You tap the screen where you want to go, and when a fight breaks out you navigate the turn-based battle menus with greater ease than you can with a gamepad.  Settlers of Catan on the iPad is fantastic, as are Scrabble and Ticket to Ride.  FIFA and Tiger Woods Golf are both great for the iPad.  Supposedly Madden is too, but I've never played it.  Mirror's Edge was super fun.  Multiplayer Field Runners with my wife was some of the most fun I've had with videogames in years.  Infinity Blade, while on rails, is some of the best, most satisfying sword fighting ever made (ironically better than anything the Wii controllers have delivered).  Point-and-click adventures, as I suspect you secretly agree, can be amazing, and there are great ones, both old and new available on the iPad.  A brand new You Don't Know Jack was just released.  Death Rally and Reckless Racing are supurb top-down racers with excellent controls (they'd control even better with a gamepad, but they're not a problem on the touch screen).  Civilization is great and it's much better on the iPad than the DS. Flight Control and Osmos are simply excellent games, both of which would suffer if moved to a gamepad or PC.  Tilt games do not suffer by virtue of the screen tilting.  The opposite is, of course, true.  They feel much more natural because you don't just see a graphical representation of the the game board tilting.  It actually tilts.  There are some really good games that use this functionality.  Games far better than Monkey Ball (though, that's there too, if you're into that).  Also, there are some great 2D platformers available, like Max's Magic Marker and Soozis.

On top of that nowhere-near complete list are kids-apps/games.  My daughter has a drawing pad in which she can pull a drawer out from the edge of the screen which contains crayons, paint brushes, pencils, markers, etc., in dozens of colors.  There are also a ton of stationaries and stickers and other fun extras.  When she finishes a drawing she can email it to Grandma or post it to Facebook.  She did all of this at 3 (she's 4 now).  There are countless educational apps too.  She already reads in full sentences, counts above 100, tells time, adds and subtracts most numbers below 20, knows her days of the week and months of the year and seasons.  She starts Kindergarten this fall.  Obviously I could teach her all these things without the iPad, but the iPad puts them in fun games that work well and are intuitive to use even for toddlers (unlike a gamepad).  And I haven't even begun on interactive children's books.  The adaptation of Sesame Street's There's a Monster at the End of This Book is utter genious, and is light years better than its dead-tree counterpart.  And there are dozens of Dr. Seuss books available, all better than the originals.  I currently have about 90-100 interactive children's books for the iPad.

In short, you can't play Zelda on the iPad any better than you can play World of Goo or Trauma Center on the Xbox 360.  But that doesn't make the 360 a bad system; it just makes it not suited for certain games.

Also, FWIW, you can use bluetooth gamepads on the iPad and Onlive is coming out for it shortly, with support for its own wireless gamepad.


Edit:  fixed some strange typos.  I'll freely admit that onscreen keyboards leave somehting to be desired. 

ugh... just ugh... 

I don't think you are reading my comments anymore. 

This thread is about the vita and if it will sell well.  I (and many others) said it wouldn't due to software.  You chimed in and said it wouldn't because of the prevelenace of smartphones.  My response essentially said that smartphones won't hurt portable console sales due to poor gaming software.  So we have always been talking about sales.  My aploogies if it wasn't obvious.

All those titles you mentioned... great or otherwise are not action titles.... they don't require much in terms of reflexes or you know... actual fast-pased gameplay.  They aren't platform sellers.  I mean no offense but when your rebuke is "they have a lot of great educational titles" then you are skating on thin ice.   What you described are a bunch of "non-games" that would only appeal to demographics that would never be interested in buying a portable console in the first place.  While you have listed a bunch of great titles to play if you already have an ipad or similar smartphone, you haven't listed any that would make a person go out and buy a ipad just to play the game, or better yet buy an ipad INSTEAD of a 3ds or vita.

I don't think it's worth discussing anymore though... I'm pretty sure this thread has become a parody of itself at this point.

So goodbye and thanks for all the fish!!

[shmokes]

Even if you're right (you're not, gaming is great on iOS, but whatev).  Even if you're right, it's not necessarily about whether someone would buy those devices just for games or choose those devices instead of a 3ds or Vita.  As great as an iPad is for games, I have no doubt that the Vita is capable of more. 

The much more common occurance will be people who already have iDevices who say, "Ya know, I want a Vita, and in the past I would have got one, but now I already have this pretty damned capable portable game machine with me at all times (iDevice).  It's good enough and I just can't justify laying down $200+ when I've got this thing in my pocket already."

[Malenko]

lets not call them iDevices, I hate apples naming convention, it sooooooo ---smurfin--- stupid.

I play more games on the nook I bought my GF then my PS3. Before you get all "NO WAIZ!" on that , I havent played a game on my PS3 in like 3 months but I played a "spot the difference" game on her nook for about 20 minutes. While I have some games on my iphone, I cant say I really play them with any regularity. Some "Words with friends" (that could be played on any system every made ever), some fruit ninja, and the rare game of Meteor Blitz. I use my iphone mostly for calling people, texting, and checking my e-mail...most of that is work related.

What you say makes sense.  It just doesn't match the behavior I see in pretty much everyone. 

I blame that on where you live.

[shmokes]

I agree that saying iDevice makes me sound like a tool.  But the convenience is undeniable.   

[Donkbaca]

Sony has crushed Nintendo and the Vita isn't even out yet!