Sony crushes Nintendo

[Donkbaca]

What do you think?  Will the Vita crush the 3ds?  Same price, VIta looks like it can do way more stuff...

[Vigo]

The Vita looks real slick. The Name sounds almost as stupid as something Nintendo would come up with though. I think it's a better use of $250 than a 3DS.

Nintendo will hold their own IF they lower their price, and IF they actually get some good games.

I think Nintendo will end up lowering their prices, but having some good games is where I have my serious doubts....

[Donkbaca]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them.  That being said, I think that is mostly because the Nintendo handhelds were cheaper.  In the end it all comes down to games, and the Vita will have GTA, Infamous and a bunch of other games.  The 3ds better come with something better than a 3d nintendogs if they hope to hang on...

[Donkbaca]

I use my psp to play old console games.  I don't think any of the PSP games are that fun, yes even the GTA ones.

Games will eventually decide, but right now i have to give the edge to the PSP, though in reality the iphone wins, hands down, as far as portable gaming goes.

[SNAAKE]

where can I watch e3 footage online??

found some konami stuff on youtube. nothing on new systems like this vita(LOL?)

[Vigo]

i think there is a lot that is posted on G4TV.

[SNAAKE]

oh yeah sony IS raping nintendo. wii is a joke now. sold mine and bought playstation move


3ds and vita looks even though. both will have good library.

[javeryh]

I've said it multiple times - the PSP is better than the DS in every single way except for "fun".  Sony just doesn't get it when it comes to the handheld game experience, IMO.  I bought a PSP, did the hacks on it, and only used it as an MP3 player until I got an iPhone 4. 

This is exactly right.  I don't want to play Uncharted, GTA and all of those other huge AAA titles while I'm taking a dump.  That said, there are some fantastic "portable" games for the PSP but they are not publicized for whatever reason (Hot Shots Golf/Tennis, Half Minute Hero, Crush, etc.).  I mainly use it for emulation on the go - which it is great for!

[hypernova]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

[SavannahLion]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

[Necroticart]

what I see happening with the vita is cross play ie in the middle of a game and your wife wants to watch TV or you have to go to the bathroom you can now finish the game you started on the PS3. I have to say I definitely like what I've seen so far.

[Mario]

Most handhelds are bought for children. 

I believe that this is now more true than ever. Most adults have or will have smartphones, and have no desire to carry around multiple devices. Putting adult games on phones and leaving the handhelds for kids and maybe teens is probably the best way to go now.

There's one feature of the iPhone games that I now think every handheld should (or must) have: alleviate the player from having to save a game. I'd like to be able to turn off the device or switch games without having to manually save a game, and when I return I'm right back where I started. This should be automatic. And, I want the ability to "bookmark" a game at any point so I can return or replay as I desire. I wonder if Sony thought of doing this.

Mario

[Howard_Casto]

It will fail on the name alone.  Vita?  Sounds like something I would order from the Taco Bell menu only to get the runs 15 mins later. 

Sony fails with every portable, and this will be the case yet again.  The reason they fail is because they try to put home versions of their games, which are too slowly paced, on a portable.  That just doesn't work. 

Nintendo portables always pick up tremendous speed after the first price drop.  I know I didn't get a ds until it was dropped to around 150 and came with a game and that was around the time when it was flying off the shelf. 

[DaveMMR]

It will fail on the name alone.  Vita?

Wii was a horrible name and it didn't seem to affect their sales too much.

But I agree, it's not a terribly catchy name.

[I have to catch up on the E3 announcements before further commenting]

[Bootay]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

I agree 100% with everything in this post. Handhelds are more or less for kids and always have been since the original Gameboy. As an adult, when I do have time to play a game, I prefer to play it on my large TV. The only time I ever use any handheld is in the waiting room at a Dr. or Dentist or Hospital. Or if I am going some place that requires a lot of boring sitting around. I often bring them to family get togethers too.

But the problem with the PSP (like Castro had already mentioned) is they release games like God of War, Assassins Creed, and Silent Hill on it. These are adult geared games and most adults only use handhelds for short periods of time. Games like WarioWare, Tetris, and New Super Mario Bros. are way more fitting for this type of experience.

[Mikezilla]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them. 

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

I have said that 100 times in other threads 

[geomartin]

Paid $150 for a brand new Caanoo and I love the thing.  Hands down best portable I've had because I can easily load MAME, NES, Etc. and don't have to worry about having to hack the thing to get it to work.  My kids have had all the Nintendo handhelds thru the years and I very rarely find a game I want to play on them. 

[SavannahLion]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them.  

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

I have said that 100 times in other threads  

I usually don't bother reading your crap.   

[Howard_Casto]

Well the Wii name sounded stupid... until they started the "Wii would like to play" commercials and it was damned brilliant.  So no, I think the Wii was a pretty good name. 

On the other hand all Sony could do would be a "Living la VITA loca" ad.  Probably not the best of ideas considering their demographic. 

I can agree with a lot of what you guys are saying in terms of smartphones.  Smartphones for me at least, are a waste of money though.  When I need a cell, I need to make phone calls on it and that's it.  Now if I can get a phone that does a lot of stuff with my phone plan then that's great, but I'm sure as hell not paying cash money for a cell, especially several hundred dollars... phones are free... everybody knows that. 

In terms of gaming they are severly lacking as well.  Mostly they are lacking in terms of hardware.  Myself I need buttons to play anything more complex than tic-tac-toe properly.  Smartphones have either crappy buttons or lack them completely.  Also smartphones lack big developers.  You are never going to see a big nintendo or 360/ps3 hit on the iphone or ipad, simply because they would be shooting themselves in the foot.  Generally speaking, the only "real games" you see on a smart phone are ports of really old classics, which is fine, but again, no buttons to play them with.

I use my DS almsot exclusively for waiting rooms, and for me that makes it well worth the purchase.  The current gen of portables seems a little pricey to me, but then again, so did the last gen... I simply waited until the price went down. 

That's why Vita will have issue... not many "waiting room games" will be released on that system. 

[Dartful Dodger]

I never had an interest in buying a DS.  The only thing stopping me from buying a PSP was the price.
It was already said, but if Sony's device and Nintento's device are the same price, Sony wins.



Really, you're not going to by a product just because it's names sounds to Hispanic for you, really?

Chevy's Nova failed in Mexico because in Spanish Nova literally translates to "no go".

The only association I have with Vita is: "Sony's better portable".

If Sony named it Nofun then maybe there would be a point about the name.

[versapak]

Really, you're not going to by a product just because it's names sounds to Hispanic for you, really?

Vita is Latin or Italian anyway, so his Taco Bell reference was a few meatballs shy of a spaghetti sauce.


I agree, the name will have nothing to do with whether or not this thing will sell.

[Mikezilla]

Yeah, well the PSP is more hardcore than any nintendo hand held and nintendo wipes the floor with them.  

Therein lies the problem.

Most handhelds are bought for children.  Yes, I understand that adults buy them, but they're geared towards children.  Always have been.  Unfortunately, children are NOT hardcore gamers.  Adults and teenagers are generally too busy to commit to handhelds.  And if they can commit to the time involved, they would rather play something on a larger screen, i.e. TV.  When you're a child you either can't have access to the TV, or you're on the go in your parent's car - prime handheld time.

That's another reason iPhones and such are killing in this market.  As others have said, the short game time required is geared for adults perfectly, as they have short spurts of free time here and there...and children and teens with short attention spans as well.

I don't see a future where serious/hardcore handhelds overtake whatever incarnation the gameboy is in, unless they take a page from Nintendo's playbook regarding the target demographic.

Nice to see that someone else gets it.

I have said that 100 times in other threads  

I usually don't bother reading your crap.   

Nice. Its too early for me to come up with a witty retort. 

[shmokes]

You are never going to see a big nintendo or 360/ps3 hit on the iphone or ipad, simply because they would be shooting themselves in the foot. 

Madden, Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, Dead Space . . .

These are just a few AAA that are games available on the iPad.  And they're full-fledged iterations of the games--not just dumbed down mobile versions (well, GTA is a Chinatown Wars port from the PSP/DS, rather than the 3D version from PS3/360, but still a long, deep game).  Obviously Nintendo will never release a game for iOS because they only make games for their own systems, but the same isn't true for third party publishers.  And considering the number of iDevices in the wild they would be stupid to ignore them.  Ignoring them would be shooting themselves in the foot, not the other way around.

Moreover, there are TONS of brilliant games that can only be done or are done best on a touch screen.  The very best version of World of Goo in existence is the iPad version.  Same goes for Plants Vs. Zombies.  And Christ . . . if you think brilliant gaming can't be done on a smartphone you are not aware of Sword and Sworcery.  Check out the videos.  Read the reviews.  It's an utterly brilliant adventure game experience.  Then you've got Puzzle Quest, Angry Birds (which is actually a super crappy game, but people seem to like it), Solipskier, Field Runners, and so so many more.  Smart phones have evolved into a totally legitimate gaming platform with some super compelling stuff.  

[shmokes]

Play with headphones.  If you don't have headphones handy just wait till later to play it.  You lose too much without them.

[Dartful Dodger]

Tablets are going to kill smart phones and handhelds.

The Asus tablet is awesome. It's $200 more than I want to spend on a portable email reader/writer.


BTW: price is the only reason I’m not buying one, not because it’s brand name sounds like asses or reminds me of Acer.

[Vigo]

Asus and Acer are both really good brands, IMHO. They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

[TOK]

Tablets are going to kill smart phones and handhelds.

No way are tablets killing smart phones. They will put the beatdown on netbooks and low end laptops, but I can't imagine anyone who'd want to carry a 10x10" tablet around to use as a phone.

[shmokes]

They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

Lord . . . no they don't (or at least not without good cause).  The Cube got no attention.  The original Apple TV (and to a large extent the Apple TV 2) got no attention.  Apple products frequently do get attention because they're frequently way better than anything else out there.  The Mac Mini is a footnote. 

Pre-iPad Acer and Asus tablets ran Windows.  Do you seriously not see the problem there?  They were also too heavy and most (all?) of them relied on resistive (rather than capacitive) screens designed primarily to be manipulated with a stylus.  The iPad did what it did because Apple made a phenomenal product backed by a phenomenal app ecosystem, not because of the logo on the back of it.

For what it's worth, my phone is a Blackberry and my primary computer is a Windows 7 machine (an OS that I prefer to OSX).  The only Apple machines I own are my iPad and my wife's 6-year-old Powerbook.  I'm not an Apple fanboy.  I'm just not a silly Apple-hater either.  They make spectacularly good products.

[versapak]

They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

Lord . . . no they don't (or at least not without good cause).  The Cube got no attention.  The original Apple TV (and to a large extent the Apple TV 2) got no attention.  Apple products frequently do get attention because they're frequently way better than anything else out there.  The Mac Mini is a footnote. 

Pre-iPad Acer and Asus tablets ran Windows.  Do you seriously not see the problem there?  They were also too heavy and most (all?) of them relied on resistive (rather than capacitive) screens designed primarily to be manipulated with a stylus.  The iPad did what it did because Apple made a phenomenal product backed by a phenomenal app ecosystem, not because of the logo on the back of it.

For what it's worth, my phone is a Blackberry and my primary computer is a Windows 7 machine (an OS that I prefer to OSX).  The only Apple machines I own are my iPad and my wife's 6-year-old Powerbook.  I'm not an Apple fanboy.  I'm just not a silly Apple-hater either.  They make spectacularly good products.

Exactly.

The iPad is an great product that runs a great OS.

Other than a couple of old iPods (pre iPod touch), the iPad is the only apple device I have ever owned.

[Vigo]

The iPad is an great product that runs a great OS.

iOS a great OS? Barf. Any "OS" that only allows you to only use applications that are pre-approved by apple is no OS in my book. I wouldn't consider buying an iPad without jailbreaking it.

I'll take a windows OS tablet any day above iOS simply because I can do whatever I want with it. And I have been using apple products since Mac OS System 7. (Earlier if you include the Apple IIe  )

[Loafmeister]

They have been making notebooks that convert into tablets years before the iPad came out too. Apple seem to always just get a ton of attention though. 

Lord . . . no they don't (or at least not without good cause).  The Cube got no attention.  The original Apple TV (and to a large extent the Apple TV 2) got no attention.  Apple products frequently do get attention because they're frequently way better than anything else out there.  The Mac Mini is a footnote. 

Pre-iPad Acer and Asus tablets ran Windows.  Do you seriously not see the problem there?  They were also too heavy and most (all?) of them relied on resistive (rather than capacitive) screens designed primarily to be manipulated with a stylus.  The iPad did what it did because Apple made a phenomenal product backed by a phenomenal app ecosystem, not because of the logo on the back of it.

For what it's worth, my phone is a Blackberry and my primary computer is a Windows 7 machine (an OS that I prefer to OSX).  The only Apple machines I own are my iPad and my wife's 6-year-old Powerbook.  I'm not an Apple fanboy.  I'm just not a silly Apple-hater either.  They make spectacularly good products.

I think three other reasons why the Ipad is the big hit it is:  Battery life, cheap good apps and instant on.  Seriously, aside from the need for itunes (bloated piece of crap code but thankfully iOS 5 will negate the need of it), having such a long battery life (10 hours) really has cut the cord for me, it's become my favorite platform. It's not perfect but what a great experience.  have you used Splashtop?  That pretty much removes any negatives (like lack of Flash for some).  What a great app.

Vigo:  Bad OS?  I can appreciate you want an open OS but having a closed OS has its advantages.  There certainly is room for improvement though.

[Loafmeister]

Forgot to add relevant to the topic:  I think the Vita is damn nice hardware but powerful hardware begats powerful $$$ development time for the games.  Yes, I know Sony said "games will be easy to port from the PS3" but having libraries that support such a task doesn't mean it's easy when the CPU and GPU are totally different; at best this will mean assets will be easily convertable.  Now comes the tough part, the Vita is rumoured to have 256 megs of ram which is half what the PS3 has.  Does'nt seem to be that "easy to port".

I think the $5-$10 tablet/smartphone price point on games is going to be a killer for the Vita (and 3DS) towards their $40-50+ games.  They'll be faced with either ports to save on cash, but most anyone with a Vita probably has already played it, which is why straight ports don't always work. Original content that looks fantastic? Then the price point needs to be much higher.

Also, about the ability for Vita to continue from your current save, I'm sure it's possible but I'll believe this is a great "feature" when I see it. IE: I don't think devs will allow the one copy of a game to work on both the PS3 and the Vita (which is a lot more different hardware wise to the PS3 than Sony's letting on). Rather, I know it's possible, and I'm sure Sony may sacrifice one or two games to have such an option (just to show it works) but let's see 3rd party devs think this is a good idea.  If you can sell someone a game twice instead of once, what do you think they'll pick?  For this to work and be supported, it literaly would have to be a near zero dev cost option for them to support it; I just don't see that possible at this time.

Before anyone thinks I'm an anti-Vista guy (eheh), let me tell you, I'll probably buy it if I see the market support it. I think the 5" screen is a must for an old man like me , and the hardware IS damn impressive. I just think the direction the market is going in leads people away from spending a lot of cash for "on the go" gaming, and I believe hardcore portable gaming at $40+ a pop for a game is pretty much about to die.  Sony/Nintendo I'm sure are cursing Apple and Android on a daily basis and if MS has anyone with vision, they're celebrating the fact they didn't get into the portable market.  So the Vita may be great, like the PSP was great but the biggest problem with the PSP is hardware sold well, games sold poorly.  I think history will repeat itself but much worse. Hope I'm wrong, I want one.

Here's something else to consider:  Anyone see the onlive tablet demo?   For as much as they were being laughed at as a DOA project, THAT may be the future of portable gaming.   No NEED for big hardware, the online service (or others of its type) will handle most of that for you.

Finally (for real):  SuperBrothers: Sword and Swordcery is damn cool, but you really need to be a fan of old-style adventure games. But the music?  Maybe one of the best game soundtrack ever.  It's that good.

[shmokes]

iOS a great OS? Barf. Any "OS" that only allows you to only use applications that are pre-approved by apple is no OS in my book. I wouldn't consider buying an iPad without jailbreaking it.

I'll take a windows OS tablet any day above iOS simply because I can do whatever I want with it. And I have been using apple products since Mac OS System 7. (Earlier if you include the Apple IIe  )

So principaled!  I assume, then, that you've never owned a Nintendo, Sega, Sony or MS videogame console.

The problem with a Windows OS tablet is the OS.  It's not made (well-made) for that form-factor.  So it isn't widely adopted in the tablet space because it sucks to use.  Since it isn't widely adopted developers  don't develop for it (applications with a tablet UI, that is).  So not only does it suck to use the OS, but it sucks to use the apps, because they aren't designed for the tablet form-factor.   

Obviously the only proof you need of this is Windows 8.  Windows 8 is Microsoft's first OS made for tablets.  Tablet PC was just Windows with handwriting recognition and a pop-up keyboard.  Everyone, including Microsoft, but excluding you apparently, knows this.

[Dartful Dodger]

Tablets are going to kill smart phones and handhelds.

No way are tablets killing smart phones. They will put the beatdown on netbooks and low end laptops, but I can't imagine anyone who'd want to carry a 10x10" tablet around to use as a phone.

I got my first smart phone two years ago, and I love it I can't believe it took me so long to get one. At that time I told myself (and this board) I’ll never go back to a dumb phone.

Now I'm just going to hold on to it until it dies and when it does I'm going back to a dumb phone and getting a tablet.

A tablet is just for killing a few minutes with games web surfing and email. A smart phone only better.

When tablets start coming with a real OS (Widows) and we can install all programs to them, they’ll kill the laptops too.

[Vigo]

iOS a great OS? Barf. Any "OS" that only allows you to only use applications that are pre-approved by apple is no OS in my book. I wouldn't consider buying an iPad without jailbreaking it.

I'll take a windows OS tablet any day above iOS simply because I can do whatever I want with it. And I have been using apple products since Mac OS System 7. (Earlier if you include the Apple IIe  )

So principaled!  I assume, then, that you've never owned a Nintendo, Sega, Sony or MS videogame console.

The problem with a Windows OS tablet is the OS.  It's not made (well-made) for that form-factor.  So it isn't widely adopted in the tablet space because it sucks to use.  Since it isn't widely adopted developers  don't develop for it (applications with a tablet UI, that is).  So not only does it suck to use the OS, but it sucks to use the apps, because they aren't designed for the tablet form-factor.   

Obviously the only proof you need of this is Windows 8.  Windows 8 is Microsoft's first OS made for tablets.  Tablet PC was just Windows with handwriting recognition and a pop-up keyboard.  Everyone, including Microsoft, but excluding you apparently, knows this.

It's obvious the difference in point of view here is that we are thinking of the iPad as something different. I am looking at the iPad as a computer, a do-all personal computer. You are looking at it as a separate media gadget, specifically to do the certain common functions you are interested in, just like the video game consoles you referenced. Funny thing is, while apple does label the iPad as a do-all computer, the general public notion is that is is a media gadget.

Since your view of its function fits with your needs, I can quite easily see why you are satisfied. Me, I am a guy who, when buying a computer, intends to use the computer for whatever needs I may have. My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with, and I don't want apple tying the hands of perfectly capable developers that have applications that I would be interested in buying.

I am not demanding a whole lot from Apple. Simply a legitimate means for users to purchase and download applications from outside their approved bubble of an app store. Apple fears users gaining root access to the iPad, but who cares? They bought the machine, they can do with it what they want. It's completely ironic how today, Microsoft is the open platform, and Apple is the restrictive platform. 

In all fairness, I think both of our points of view are valid.

[Harakiri]

Here in Portugal both PSP and Playstation 3 sold more than Nintendo Wii and Nintendo 3DS. I remember when everyone was waiting in line at superstores to grab theirs, such reaction didn't happen here. It's a cultural matter i believe, portugueses are not attached to icons such as Link or Super-Mario, they rather graphics and fresh titles above everything else.

[versapak]

It's obvious the difference in point of view here is that we are thinking of the iPad as something different. I am looking at the iPad as a computer, a do-all personal computer. You are looking at it as a separate media gadget, specifically to do the certain common functions you are interested in, just like the video game consoles you referenced. Funny thing is, while apple does label the iPad as a do-all computer, the general public notion is that is is a media gadget.

Since your view of its function fits with your needs, I can quite easily see why you are satisfied. Me, I am a guy who, when buying a computer, intends to use the computer for whatever needs I may have. My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with, and I don't want apple tying the hands of perfectly capable developers that have applications that I would be interested in buying.

I am not demanding a whole lot from Apple. Simply a legitimate means for users to purchase and download applications from outside their approved bubble of an app store. Apple fears users gaining root access to the iPad, but who cares? They bought the machine, they can do with it what they want. It's completely ironic how today, Microsoft is the open platform, and Apple is the restrictive platform.  

In all fairness, I think both of our points of view are valid.

The iPad isn't looked at by anybody, apple or anyone else, as a do all computer.

As for it being only apps that apple allows... I have to say so what to that. I also own an android phone, and I would take the iOS apps and its store over the android one any day of the week. Apple iOS has more focus, while android is chaos, and that leads to higher quality on iOS.

Not everyone will find use with a tablet, but anyone that hasn't even tried one has no valid perspective on them. They are primarily media consumption devices, and shouldn't be bought for any primary function other than that, though you may find that you can do plenty of that as well.

[shmokes]

My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with

And I reiterate, you must have never purchased a videogame console before with principles like that.

It's not that there is no merit to your point of view.  There is.  Apple's decisions about what can and cannot be on the iPad are sometimes super obnoxious.  But you're missing the forest for the trees.  The Tablet PC cannot do whatever you want with it, because nobody develops for it..  Because it sucks.  It sucks balls.  I had a Tablet PC for years--a Motion Computing Slate.  The best on the market when I got it.  I still have it, I suppose . . . it just hasn't been turned on in ages.  They suck.  And the Tablet features are so poorly integrated it seems like an April Fool's joke.  Things like, when you mark up a page in Word or One Note with handwriting, but then add text somewhere in the middle of the document, the handwritten notes don't get shifted down with the typed text, so suddenly all of your markups are utter nonsense. Seriously, people, this is what happens in Microsoft-developed applications that have explicit Tablet PC handwriting support.

What you are doing is taking one negative aspect of the iPad (the closed platform), completely ignoring the ways in which that negative actually has some positive benefits, then blowing it all out of proportion so that it eclipses all the wonderful aspects of the device.  You are then utterly ignoring the fact that virtually everything about Tablet PC is garbage, and focusing on only one positive aspect -- that it's an open platform.  So you can theoretically do whatever you want with it.  Only you can't actually do anything with it because, in spite of their great freedom, nobody writes programs for it.

I'm excited for Windows 8.  In my brief experience with Windows Phone 7 (like 5 minutes total) it has struck me as far far better designed then iOS.  And I like Windows 7 more than OSX (for laptops and desktops, of course).  But Tablet PC is retarded.  And the iPad is spectacular.  The new Galaxy Tab apparently is too, though (just hit retail like today or yesterday or something).  So it's not like you can't get a phenomenal tablet right now without going with Apple.  Of course, you can still do way more with the iPad thanks to the way better App store, but I expect that'll change soon enough.  

[Vigo]

The iPad isn't looked at by anybody, apple or anyone else, as a do all computer.

Sure it is, especially since tablets have been a do-all computers up until the iPad came out. Not to mention that Apple's angle of advertising that it can "do all".

My point of view is simply that when I buy a product, it is mine to do whatever I want with

And I reiterate, you must have never purchased a videogame console before with principles like that.

Sure I have, but a Nintendo never pretended to do anything more than play a purchased cartridge stuffed into it.


Also, I know what you mean about the Windows Tablet issues. Not gonna pretend otherwise. My point of view is more that there isn't a whole lot that requires tablet functionality, and I can just use any old windows program for whatever I want on that tablet. I don't want a crippling phone OS binding my hands on the tablet though.

I think the whole this is a two steps forward, one step back sort of thing. The new tablets like the iPad are amazing with how slick they operate, but they are shutting major doors of access to the tablet at the same time. 

[Donkbaca]

Anyone expecting anything close to the functionality of a 800
iPad from a Nintendo controller is going to be very disapointed