Nintendo Wii U controller thoughts

[ChadTower]

Antipiracy doesn't mean much here, IMO.  All downloaded content?  Doesn't matter.  Ripped off a disc or off a hard drive or off a download stream, someone will figure out how to do it, and it will all end up in torrents.  There are too many excellent minds who want it and not enough employed by the game companies to stop it.  That's just how the new world works.  Piracy is as much open challenge as it is desire for content.  You can't challenge the whole world and expect to succeed forever.

[shmokes]

Apple seems to do okay with it.  Music and apps.  It's coming.

It works for apple, because everything is dirt cheap. If games on the iOS app store were even remotely close to $60, then they wouldn't sell at all.

Someone should tell that to Steam.

[versapak]

Apple seems to do okay with it.  Music and apps.  It's coming.

It works for apple, because everything is dirt cheap. If games on the iOS app store were even remotely close to $60, then they wouldn't sell at all.

Someone should tell that to Steam.

Someone should maybe tell you that games on Steam aren't $60 either.


If games are priced like PC games (PS games have been regularly about $20 cheaper, even on physical media for years), and there are regular sales, then I could see it more likely to work, but then they will lose a pretty substantial part of the market. Sad as it is, there are still a LOT of people without broadband, and even many of those that do have broadband have to deal with bandwidth caps.


That being said...

I do not see an end to physical media completely in the immediate future.

[shmokes]

Yes, I know it sounds insaine, but even in this day and age owners of video game consoles might have slow internet access or even no access at all!

These people will always exist, or at least will for a long time, but every day they become increasingly hypothetical.  Soon their numbers will shrink to the point that servicing them is no longer profitable because economies of scale are lost.  

You have to realize that businesses act more-or-less purely based on profit-motive.  Even when going all digital alienates a chunk of potential customers, this has to be weighed against the fact that you no longer have to split profits with retailers.  You no longer have to deal with physical distribution costs like storage, shipping, manufacturing, printing, etc.   So your products can be more profitable, or the price can be reduced, bringing in more customers to replace the lost ones.  You also get to leave a failure-prone mechanical component out of your system, saving all kinds of warranty costs.

The number of people who lack broadband is dwindling rapidly.  Playstation 5 is probably close to ten years away.  Think of how tiny the broadband-free population of people will be in 2020.  You really think Sony and MS and Nintendo are going to give up all the money on the table represented by the all-digital business model just to make sure a handful of tweakers in the Ozarks can get their hands on the latest Grand Theft Auto?

It's coming.  Physical media has, at most, one generation left beyond Wii/PS3/360.

[versapak]

Yes, I know it sounds insaine, but even in this day and age owners of video game consoles might have slow internet access or even no access at all!

These people will always exist, or at least will for a long time, but every day they become increasingly hypothetical.  Soon their numbers will shrink to the point that servicing them is no longer profitable because economies of scale are lost. 

You have to realize that businesses act more-or-less purely based on profit-motive.  Even when going all digital alienates a chunk of potential customers, this has to be weighed against the fact that you no longer have to split profits with retailers.  You no longer have to deal with physical distribution costs like storage, shipping, manufacturing, printing, etc.   So your products can be more profitable, or the price can be reduced, bringing in more customers to replace the lost ones.  You also get to leave a failure-prone mechanical component out of your system, saving all kinds of warranty costs.

The number of people who lack broadband is dwindling rapidly.  Playstation 5 is probably close to ten years away.  Think of how tiny the broadband-free population of people will be in 2020.  You really think Sony and MS and Nintendo are going to give up all the money on the table represented by the all-digital business model just to make sure a handful of tweakers in the Ozarks can get their hands on the latest Grand Theft Auto?

It's coming.  Physical media has, at most, one generation left beyond Wii/PS3/360.

It isn't just the people that do not have broadband though.

...but again...

Even those, that do have broadband, in many cases have caps in place.

Heck, an all digital download strategy effectively removes Canada from your sales plans altogether.

[shmokes]

Someone should maybe tell you that games on Steam aren't $60 either.

Largely because they don't have to be.  Huge cost savings come with digital distribution.  But more importantly it's just cos PC games are on an open platform (royalty free).  But these are the same games as their $60 console counterparts.  And for the most part they're priced in-line with the same PC games sold in retail boxes.  Steam proves that people will buy full-priced, mega-budget games via digital download.  Millions and millions of people.

As for bandwidth caps, that doesn't concern me.  The market will take care of that.  As bandwidth becomes more important ISPs are going to have to compete on bandwidth just like they do on everything else.  Bandwidth caps only really work as a business model if they only target the people on the fringes.  It's good business to drive away the users who suck up way more bandwidth than most.  But if the ISPs aren't providing enough bandwidth to meet the needs of basic users they'll go out of business.  Data caps have to allow for normal use of Netflix and videogame consoles or they will lead to a mass exodus of customers to an ISP that understands this.

[Mikezilla]

Well, since Shmokes is gazing through his crystal ball and telling us how its gonna be, I for one will stop playing video games if it boils down to all digitial distrubution. When I pay for something, I like having something tangible showing that I made the purchase, I like to read the booklet it came with, and have a collection to show off, and if a friend wants to borrow a game, I can let him. How the hell would that work if it was solely stored on the HDD on the console? Not only that, what if the harddrive craps out, or information is lost, how will that be handled?

To address the Steam thing, the only game I have ever bought on steam was a version of Xcom for 2 bucks. Besides, you can still buy the games from Valve in the store on actual media, then have access through it from steam. Its not their sole method of distribution.

Besides, nobody downloads games off of XBLA or PSN that are current gen games. Cmon. Games like Limbo and Super Meat boy are awesome games, but they are only 5 bucks. You get what you pay for, its a great experience, but both games only require a run through, there isnt any multiplayer(for limbo at least) and it only takes about 5 hours to beat. I dunno, if it seriously went that route, I wouldnt buy it. The only reason I buy stuff off of Wii is because the old cartridges batteries are dead (Chrono Trigger) or I never had a PSX to play Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. How old are those? over 20 years old?

[Vigo]

I'm big on tangible assets as well. Even though I don't use CD's as much as I used to, I will still buy them above a download 100% of the time. I will just rip the cd, and put it on my mp3 player. Then put the cd in my carousel cd player. If I ever lose my music, I always have a physical backup.

I have a buddy who went 100% digital with his music. Ripped his old music and tossed the CDs, and started buying mp3s online. He had major hard drive failure, and lost everything. He then went out and bought over $1000 in itunes cards to replenish his music supply. He didn't even come close to restocking his collection. 

[Mikezilla]

I'm big on tangible assets as well. Even though I don't use CD's as much as I used to, I will still buy them above a download 100% of the time. I will just rip the cd, and put it on my mp3 player. Then put the cd in my carousel cd player. If I ever lose my music, I always have a physical backup.

I have a buddy who went 100% digital with his music. Ripped his old music and tossed the CDs, and started buying mp3s online. He had major hard drive failure, and lost everything. He then went out and bought over $1000 in itunes cards to replenish his music supply. He didn't even come close to restocking his collection. 

I like buying CD's because I feel like Im collecting something. I like reading the lyrics, who the band thanks etc, but I do the same thing. Its easier to have 1000 songs on my ipod, and plug it into the auxillary port in my car. Better than having to change the CD's out everytime, and if my ipod gets stolen, thats the only thing I have to replace. I like to listen to a bunch of obscure metal that I have to import from other countries, or go to the shows and buy the CD's when they are in town, which is usually rare. I learned my lesson after leaving my CD case in my truck, then having my truck getting broken into. I lost a lot of stuff. 

[shmokes]

Besides, nobody downloads games off of XBLA or PSN that are current gen games.

Have another look at PSN.  More and more current gen games are becoming available for digital distribution there.  I dunno about Live cos I don't have a 360.

Also, keep in mind that the views of people on this forum are probably not quite representative of the population in general.  We are, after all, a group of nutters who build and restore monstrous arcade cabinets on which to play decades-old games.  Normal people aren't nearly so averse to technological advances and don't hold onto ridiculous ancient artifacts like CD collections.  

[Donkbaca]

Man Xcom is a great game!  I hope someone brings that back in some form in the future!

I am mostly in Shmokes' boat, but things have to change for digital distribution to take off.  First of all the prices have to come WAY down.  The app store and itunes music are so successful because of the fact that the prices are so cheap, they cater to that impulse buy.  Digital distribution is working for apps and smartphoen games because they are so cheap and easy to interface. Its working for books because, frankly, bookstores are dying out, and a lot of people are buying books online anyway, and so if you are buying a book online, it makes sense to just download it instead of waiting for it to ship. Books are also a little cheaper, when you consider a new hardback is like 25 bucks and you can get the nook/kindle version for like 15.  

The challenge with games is the secondary market.  Games don't just compete with new games, they compete with used games, and 2 months after a game comes out, you can usually find it used for way cheaper, and the further out it goes, the cheaper they get.  I bought Tekken 6 off of ebay for 5 dollars.  The problem with the digital distribution for consoles is that you are locked into all-new pricing, plus you can't "trade in" games.  That being said there are ways that all of this could work.

When I pay for something, I like having something tangible showing that I made the purchase, I like to read the booklet it came with, and have a collection to show off

There will always be these types, personally I hate tangible goods, they create clutter.  I would love it if I just had harddrives full of games, and I think the experience from music, and now movies shows that a lot of people don't really care as much about the physical object.

if a friend wants to borrow a game, I can let him

You can do this pretty easily.  Barnes and Noble has a "lend me" feature on their e-books.  The way it works is that you have the book on your system and can "lend it" to a limited number of people.  If the console is a constantly connected system, you could set it up so that each download has two licenses and you could keep one and "lend out" the other for a limited number of times, or for x-amount of times.  They could even sell these "lend me" licenses if they wanted to to basically compete with game rental places.

You wouldn't have to worry about your hard drive crashing, you could just recover your data and re-download it.

Mostly though, they would have to get cheaper, and the game devs could STILL make a profit if the games were 30 bucks if you consider that there would be no packaging, manufacturing, or distribution costs, plus instead of sharing a cut of the profits with a brick and mortar store, the devs could sell straight through a proprietary online store, like XBL and the console maker could just up their license fees a little bit.  

The biggest problem is that the industry doesn't see things this way.  The way they see it is that the public has been conditioned to pay 60 bucks plus for a game, and so that is what they price direct download games at.  The way you make money on digital distributions is by possibly upping your margins, but mainly from upping your volume.  I think the industry just looks at it as a way to up margins, when really the money is to be made by upping volume.  

Basically, it needs to be cheaper, and it needs to have some means of license transfers to "share" games.

[Mikezilla]

Besides, nobody downloads games off of XBLA or PSN that are current gen games.

Also, keep in mind that the views of people on this forum are probably not quite representative of the population in general.  We are, after all, a group of nutters who build and restore monstrous arcade cabinets on which to play decades-old games.  Normal people aren't nearly so averse to technological advances and don't hold onto ridiculous ancient artifacts like CD collections.  

You do have a point there.  I sometimes think that I am an old man that grew up in the 50's trapped in a 28 year olds body. I dont like change. 

[Mikezilla]

@Donk: THey are supposed to be making a new Xcom, but its a ---goshdarn--- FPS. A FPS!!! Thats blasphemy. 

As for the other points you made... Yes, it all boils down to price. Like you said, the margin has to be different. I havent done any research or anything, but does anyone know how much a profit a distributor makes of the sale of one 60 dollar game? I have a friend who works at Rockstar, and he gets RIDICULOUS bonuses when a game does well, and he isnt even that high on the food chain.

Youre right, they are successful because they satiate that impulse feeling and you actually get to listen to a chunk of the song before you download it. I suppose it would be nice to be able to play a demo of a game before you buy it, but I still dont like the fact of paying for something and not actually owning anything. Its like renting the IP.

Bookstores are dying out? Frankly, the only bookstore I can think of is Barnes and Noble. I dont even want to get into the ebook vs regular book debate...

You didnt say how they could get over the trade in game aspect, and the all new pricing. 

[Vigo]

Eventually, I am sure that physical media will be phased out, whether or not the consumer wants it to begin with. It will be an industry demand.

While it could be a great thing for ease of use and cost wise, this is a bad thing for the consumer as far as property ownership goes. The games we own are already being challenged by the industry as far as what we can do with our games. The whole "intellectual property" thing.

We will be departing from physical media because it is currently acting as an anchor proving that we physically own the property and can personally use it however we want, Buy from whomever, sell to whomever, trade with whomever. In the future when you buy a game, there will be a number of securities aimed at taking down used game sales and uncontrolled sharing, since that is a piece of the pie that the VG industry does not make any money from. Expect that anything you buy will have an identifier tying you to your purchase and rendering the game useless to any other user.

[Dartful Dodger]

Well, since Shmokes is gazing through his crystal ball and telling us how its gonna be, I for one will stop playing video games if it boils down to all digitial distrubution. When I pay for something, I like having something tangible showing that I made the purchase, I like to read the booklet it came with, and have a collection to show off, and if a friend wants to borrow a game, I can let him.

Most people avoid clutter. The box the games come in, the instruction booklets, those are as useful as junk mail. the reason there are fewer booklets from old games is because the majority of people didn't care to enough about them to keep them.


I still remember when people were saying that CDs would never replace records because music is art and people who want music will always want the larger covers that came with vinyl.

Apples to oranges you say, how about apples to apples:

When was the last time you bought a music CD?

I already know you're going to say that you only buy CDs and you never download music off of iTunes, but you're in the minority. Tell the music stores that have gone out of business or the shrinking music sections in the department stores that people won't be buying digital.




You don't like digital products, that's cool, I don't like cheese products. The gaming industry will get along without you as easily as the dairy industry has been getting along without me.

[Donkbaca]

Well you can't really compare video games and music.  For one, portability is huge for music folks, they listen to it in their car, at the gym, it really isn't the same with games.  Yeah there are portable game systems, but its not the system where we buy one game and expect to be able to enjoy the same game over multiple platforms.  Second, music is way cheaper than games.  Third, the business model is all very different.  A lot of artists don't care about music sales, they care more about going on tour, and they view cd's and such a way to basically promote their live shows.  Look at all the money Bon Jovi made last year.  Their is no such analogue in the video game world.

I do think it will go to digital distribution, but it will take time, or maybe a major developer that decides to go that route.

[Vigo]

When was the last time you bought a music CD?

Yesterday. I know I am in the minority. 

You know, it's my humble opinion that a lot of the CD sales decline has to do with a decline in quality music from major labels. Not a lack of quality music in general, but it seems that just about everything pushed out from major labels more and more becoming recycled garbage. Most Albums are not album worthy, so most people just download a track or two from what they like and save the 8-13 bucks on a crappy album.

Plus there is now so much out there when it comes to finding great music that is not "popular" - smaller labels, indie bands and foreign groups have much more exposure than 5-10 years ago. Many of these groups do not even release runs of physical CD's. You can get more promotional value from posting on youtube than you can get from signing on with EMI. The good artists are jumping ship one by one.

It is no wonder nobody wants to go to the store and buy CD's. Everything on the shelf is either "Greatest Hits" compilations, or the prefab crap from the major music labels. Record labels are dying and nobody wants to buy from them.

Of course convenience plays a big part in the shift too, as Donkbaca points out, portability is everything with music.

[DaveMMR]

*DELETED*  Pointless babble I added - easier to erase than fix.   Sorry.

[Malenko]

I dont think I'll ever spent $60 on a digital download if I can get the same thing on a $60 disc.  Now if I can get the $60 disc as a $40 download, you'd have my interest.

[Mikezilla]

Well, since Shmokes is gazing through his crystal ball and telling us how its gonna be, I for one will stop playing video games if it boils down to all digitial distrubution. When I pay for something, I like having something tangible showing that I made the purchase, I like to read the booklet it came with, and have a collection to show off, and if a friend wants to borrow a game, I can let him.

Most people avoid clutter. The box the games come in, the instruction booklets, those are as useful as junk mail. the reason there are fewer booklets from old games is because the majority of people didn't care to enough about them to keep them.


I still remember when people were saying that CDs would never replace records because music is art and people who want music will always want the larger covers that came with vinyl.

Apples to oranges you say, how about apples to apples:

When was the last time you bought a music CD?

I already know you're going to say that you only buy CDs and you never download music off of iTunes, but you're in the minority. Tell the music stores that have gone out of business or the shrinking music sections in the department stores that people won't be buying digital.




You don't like digital products, that's cool, I don't like cheese products. The gaming industry will get along without you as easily as the dairy industry has been getting along without me.

Youre right, I am in the minority, but what I like isnt popular. Not in the USA at least. I cant even find the stuff I like on itunes, most of the time anyway. Hell, a lot of the bands I like dont even use jewel cases anymore, they use those stupid cardboard sleeves.

And to what Vigo said, he is absolutely right, the major labels are cranking out garbage, and what people like nowadays is just recycled crap. I cant stand hip hop, rap, or the mainstream crap. They download the catch one note song, and thats it. The rest of the album is just filler. I laughed at my GF cause she bought the Kesha album (shut up) and AH! Surprise! The whole CD sucked except for that one "popular" song.

Another thing too, regarding the record labels, is that everyone knows the prices of CD's now a days. You can buy 100 of them for around 10 bucks. I bet if prices dropped, to like, 5-10 bucks a CD, everyone would be buying em again.  

[Mikezilla]

I dont think I'll ever spent $60 on a digital download if I can get the same thing on a $60 disc.  Now if I can get the $60 disc as a $40 download, you'd have my interest.

That too. Except if the disc is selling for 60 bucks, a digital download should be around 20. Or, if they want to charge more, they should market it by how long it takes the average person to complete a game, not to exceed the disc version. Something like that. I just dont see paying that kind of money just to have access to the damn IP.

[Donkbaca]

People pay that kind of money, and way more to play WoW, and you have to subscribe to it to play.

[Dartful Dodger]

Anyone over 30 has already seen and lived through the changes of media, several times.
Every reason you are giving me for the future media (digital) not replacing the current media (CD/DVD) I’ve already heard when the current media replaced the obsolete forms of media.

There is little difference in the prices of books that are in print and books that are digital, yet people are still buying them. I don’t understand it. Why would anyone buy a digital copy of a book for the same price as a printed? Who wants to read off of a screen while relaxing at the beach? I don’t know, but I also don’t have to.


I have a box of games I’ll never play again. I also downloaded my first 2+gig game through Sony’s welcome back program. I never thought I would want to own a digital game.  When I get bored of inFamous I’ll delete it. If I want to play it again I’ll just download it again.  It’s all quite simple and painless.

Ignorance of the change that’s happening or trying to rationalize against it, isn’t going to stop it.

[shmokes]

I don't like cheese products.

Mother of god . . . You poor, poor bastard. 

[shmokes]

I dont think I'll ever spent $60 on a digital download if I can get the same thing on a $60 disc. 

But you won't be able to.  There will be no physical media release.

[Malenko]

But you won't be able to.  There will be no physical media release.

No physical media release wouldn't apply to what I stated. I'm sure by the time "no physical media" rolls around I wont be gaming much anyway, my play time has dramatically dropped off now that I'm focusing on my career and paying for a house.

You seem to think that if there is no physical media, I'd have no choice but to buy it that way, when in fact I still have the choice not to buy it at all.

I laughed at my GF cause she bought the Kesha album (shut up) and AH! Surprise! The whole CD sucked except for that one "popular" song.

fix't

[Mikezilla]

People pay that kind of money, and way more to play WoW, and you have to subscribe to it to play.

Thats different though. That ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- never ends.

[Mikezilla]

But you won't be able to.  There will be no physical media release.

No physical media release wouldn't apply to what I stated. I'm sure by the time "no physical media" rolls around I wont be gaming much anyway, my play time has dramatically dropped off now that I'm focusing on my career and paying for a house.

You seem to think that if there is no physical media, I'd have no choice but to buy it that way, when in fact I still have the choice not to buy it at all.

I laughed at my GF cause she bought the Kesha album (shut up) and AH! Surprise! The whole CD sucked except for that one "popular" song.

fix't

Im kinda in the same boat, by the time that happens (which is WAYY off) I probably wont even care about media at all, because the bands I like will be dead, and I wont have time for games cause Ill be too old, or not care. Movies will be lame too, so I wont care about that. 

Haha thanks for fixing that for me! 

[shmokes]

If by a long way off you mean PS5 and Xbox 4.

[Mikezilla]

If by a long way off you mean PS5 and Xbox 4.

I doubt media will be completely gone in the next 10 or so years.

[Donkbaca]

Back on topic:

"While Nintendo has thus far focused heavily on the Wii U controller, there is another part to the system: a console that plugs into your TV, just as the Wii does today. It has high-definition graphics, as you've probably heard, but is otherwise unremarkable. And Iwata says that's why the focus was put on the controller.
"If you ask me what's so special about this hardware, I will say this contains everything you are expecting," he tells Yahoo! Games. "It's nothing special. We wanted something really special - and that happened to be the controller. If there's something I should have emphasized about the hardware, [it's this]: For those concerns people have about the Wii system, we have solved all the issues."

Unremarkable, this is from the global president of Nintendo.  Basically its an HD wii with a new controller.

while the company promised high-definition graphics from Wii U, it used gameplay footage from the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 when showcasing third-party titles that will be a part of the system.

So basically, the WiiU games will look just like the current gen PS3/XB 360

How many of those glorious controllers would the system support? Could two people transfer a game of Super Smash Bros. to two separate controllers and keep playing while someone else watches TV?
It took a couple days, but the answer turns out to be "no." The Wii U will only support one of the new controllers at a time.

So the best things about this new system is the controller, which only supports 1 player. 

[shmokes]

while the company promised high-definition graphics from Wii U, it used gameplay footage from the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 when showcasing third-party titles that will be a part of the system.

So basically, the WiiU games will look just like the current gen PS3/XB 360

We're talking about a system set for release in a year and a half.  They aren't going to have their own gameplay footage.  It doesn't exist yet.  I don't agree with using PS3/360 footage without being clear about it up front, but it doesn't necessarily mean that games will look just like that.

Remember when Sony was showing off the PS3 at E3 before launch they showed supposed screen shots of Resistance that were actually rendered.  They took a lot of flak for that, but in the end the game held up pretty well against the faked screenshots, sometimes even surpassing them (though more often falling just slightly short).

For what it's worth, technical details are emerging.  The Wii U has a one-generation old ATI processor inside it.  That's not spectacular (especially considering how far off the release date is), but the 360's ATI chip is more than five years old[/i].  So it's probably safe to say that the Wii U is more powerful than the PS3 or 360.

[Mikezilla]

They sure are plugging the "if someone else wants to use the TV, then you can still play on your controller" gimmick. Is this a marketing strategy aimed at kids? Of course it is. Nintendo needs to knock it off. Every interview post blog whatever has reiterated this 100 times. Its stupid. HD graphics and a half ass DS isnt going to sell games. Have they even mentioned a price tag?

[shmokes]

Don't get too worked up.  It won't hit shelves till the end of 2012.  Releasing pricing info at this point would be a crazy bad business move.  Don't expect to hear a price tag until at least next E3, though likely not even until the following Tokyo Game Show.  Also, this switch-to-the gamepad screen thing is a fairly major feature of the device (whether it appeals to you or not) and, in particular, it's one that can be easily conceptualized and conveyed verbally.  It's way too early for them to show you any actual games.  The tech demos they had at the show represent the extent of software development so far.  Have a little patience.  I assure you that there will be A LOT to see at next year's E3, at which time we will still be six months away from release. 

By the way, I think that TV/Controller switching thing definitely appeals to more than just kids.  It appeals to parents.  It appeals to husbands whose wives don't want to sit and watch their husbands play videogames (that is, almost all husbands).  It appeals to their wives, of course, too.

I mean . . . I dunno if it'll end up being that useful or cool.  Or if it'll screw things up cos if developers really make use of both screens like a giant DS, they can hardly support switching to using just the handheld device cos then you wouldn't have two screens anymore.  But certainly I can see how this could potentially have broader appeal than you think.  I'm not convinced it will, but it's at least a bit early to write off.

[Donkbaca]

no, they won't tell what the price is, or the release date.  Yeah its probably more powerful, but is it that big of an improvement over the current gen of games and will it be a big enough improvement to justify the expense?  

The head honcho said himself that the insides are nothing special, that what will make it stand apart from the PS3/XB360 is the controller.  I think that is a big mistake.  The wii was a big hit because it changed the way people interact with games, I guess they are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle twice with this new interactive tablet.  Here is the main problem though, the thing only supports one controller, the reason why the wii was so great is not just because it changed the way we interacted with games, but also changed the way we interacted with each other.  Grandmas played wii bowling not just because they liked the interface, but because it allowed them to play games and interact with their grandkids and with other grandmas in a new way.  Nintendo is missing the boat with this interface for that very reason.  It could be bad assed awesome, but the communal nature of video games is something that is sadly underrated and under appreciated.  Look on this forum, a main driver behind building a MAME machine is to recapture that old arcade feel and playing games with other people as much as anything else.

I think the whole wife wants to watch tv thing is kind of silly.  People do so much more than watch tv, they read books on their kindle, surf the web, play angry birds on their iphone,  plus we have 3 tv's in our house.  If I am playing games and the wife wants to watch TV, she can just go watch TV

[Donkbaca]

So it won't play regular media. Another minus.

[Mikezilla]

Don't get too worked up.  It won't hit shelves till the end of 2012.  Releasing pricing info at this point would be a crazy bad business move.  Don't expect to hear a price tag until at least next E3, though likely not even until the following Tokyo Game Show.  Also, this switch-to-the gamepad screen thing is a fairly major feature of the device (whether it appeals to you or not) and, in particular, it's one that can be easily conceptualized and conveyed verbally.  It's way too early for them to show you any actual games.  The tech demos they had at the show represent the extent of software development so far.  Have a little patience.  I assure you that there will be A LOT to see at next year's E3, at which time we will still be six months away from release. 

By the way, I think that TV/Controller switching thing definitely appeals to more than just kids.  It appeals to parents.  It appeals to husbands whose wives don't want to sit and watch their husbands play videogames (that is, almost all husbands).  It appeals to their wives, of course, too.

I mean . . . I dunno if it'll end up being that useful or cool.  Or if it'll screw things up cos if developers really make use of both screens like a giant DS, they can hardly support switching to using just the handheld device cos then you wouldn't have two screens anymore.  But certainly I can see how this could potentially have broader appeal than you think.  I'm not convinced it will, but it's at least a bit early to write off.

I suppose youre right. Ill have to wait and see. As a Wii owner, Im a little pturbed that the only title they have to release is Skyward Sword. I was hoping for at least a couple other decent titles for the rest of the year. Especially since SS wont come out until december.

I guess it could have broader appeal, but to me, it just seems kinda...meh. Not really innovative, nor useful. It just doesnt seem like enough of a reason to think "why would I want to buy this"? kind of a thing.  I guess time will tell. Im glad the graphics wont be any better than current gen though, so its not exactly going to light a fire under Sony or Microsofts ass. Like I said, I dont want the next gen to come out for awhile, I dont like having my stuff be obsolete.

Obviously, considering this is the only forum I ever frequent. 

[ChadTower]

What regular media do people play in the Wii now?  A modded Wii is barely useful as a DVD player and it won't read much of anything else.

[Mikezilla]

So it won't play regular media. Another minus.

Are there even any pro's?  

[Donkbaca]

Well everyone ripped on the wi when it came out:  Stupid name, horrible controllers, bad graphics, and it made a killing.  Really all the plusses are in the controller, that is pretty much what Nintendo's head honcho has said.  yeah the graphics chips and such are newer, but it remains to be seen as to whether they are more powerful, and if that additional power makes a difference.

Nintendo is betting the farm on the controller.  I think its a loser, because the controller can only be used by one person at a time, and what really saved the wii was a robust new multiplayer experience.

I think the no dvd player is a big deal.  Yeah we all already have them, but I think that consoles are moving more towards HTPC territory - a place where you play games, surf the web, watch netflix.  That is where MS and Sony are positioning their devices, the only difference is MS is concentrating on streaming content, Sony is concentrating on Blu Ray.  If Nintendo does not have a robust internet service, I see this as a PS3 with move controllers and no blu ray, with a huge one player touchscreen pad.