Nintendo Wii U controller thoughts

[Bootay]

Well, I'll ignore all the crystal ball predictions and just say this:

I don't like it, it looks really awkward. I didn't like the Wii but after enough begging from my girlfriend we finally broke down and got one. And we played it for umm... a week? Waste of time and money. I wont let lightning strike my wallet again, I'm lookin at you Wii and GameCube

Funny. I had the same thing happen. Had no interest in the Wii. The wife wanted one. She kept bugging me about it. She wanted it to work out with Wii Fit. So we broke down and bought one. She played Wii Fit like 2 times, my son and I played Wii Sports and the only game on it worth playing was bowling. So we played that for like a week tops before we were bored of it. I modded the Wii and grabbed about 100 games for it. Out of the 100 I can count on 2 hands how many are actually good. And the ones that are good aren't good enough to make me want to turn the thing on. I actually prefer Gamecube games to most Wii titles.

EDIT: Sorry, I edited out a sentence that I just noticed didn't make any sense.

[shmokes]

[N64] arrived 2 years after the Playstation, it should have been superior in every way. . . .

GC arrived 1.5 years after the PS2 and nearly a year after the Xbox, again too little too late.
Nintendo will be the first to the party this time around, will that be on their side, or will we have another Sega Saturn/Playstation situation.  Yeah the Wii U is nice, but look what Sony and Microsoft have coming out soon *swoon*.

As far as you're concerned N64 and Gamecube were both released almost exactly one year after their Sony counterparts (assuming you live in the US, anyway).  A year isn't enough time to make one system light-years better than the other kids on the block.  In any case, the Playstation only had a substantial edge in storage capacity over the N64, but that was a conscious decision on Nintendo's part.  They thought people wouldn't stand for load times (and probably didn't want to give up their lucrative cartridge manufacturing business).  For a lot of people, Nintendo was spot on when it came to load time revulsion.  Unfortunately for them, they miscalculated the patience of gamers in general.  But whether cartridges or CD-ROMS were superior depended on each users individual priorities.  As for the Gamecube, I don't see how it coming out a year later is too little too late.  Was the PS3 too little too late?  Cos the Xbox 360 had more than a year lead on it, IIRC.  The Xbox 360 had a similar release advantage over the Wii, but it didn't take Nintendo very long to outsell them.  Similarly, the Sega Genesis had a full two-year head start on the SNES, but in the end the Nintendo sold like 25% more systems than Sega.

I think what it boils down to is that you just don't like Nintendo anymore.  And that's totally okay.  There are some good reasons for a lot of people to dislike Nintendo.  They haven't really matured well with their audience over time.  I wouldn't be surprised if your perception of underpowered hardware actually stems from the disproportionate number of games that are appropriate for small-children.

[Corbo]

As far as you're concerned N64 and Gamecube were both released almost exactly one year after their Sony counterparts (assuming you live in the US, anyway). 

I don't live in the US.

I think what it boils down to is that you just don't like Nintendo anymore
.  And that's totally okay.  There are some good reasons for a lot of people to dislike Nintendo. 

I think Nintendo have a clear strategy which is certainly geared towards the more casual or younger gamer, but then a good game transcends all generations.  Nintendo do this well, if infrequently.  Hopefully they will stick to this strategy and continue to inject innovation into the market. Anything but more FPS’s!

I’m not in any camp when it comes to consoles.  I was weaned on Amstrads, Amiga’s and PC’s.  I’ve always watched the console market with interest though, as I’m sure we both will with the next round of consoles.  I’m glad the next generation is on its way it has been an especially long wait for this round.

[Mikezilla]

I’m glad the next generation is on its way it has been an especially long wait for this round.

Any particular reason? As I have stated before, Im glad this generation has stuck around. Im not a fan of having my hardware become obsolete every 5 years, and have to shell out more money to stay up to date. Aside from peripherals, how much better can things get? I already have a PS3 with a big HDTV 1080 screen, so even if something comes out with better resolution, I would have to buy a new TV, which Im not going to do.

From what I have been reading, the Wii U just doesnt seem compelling enough to change the game, or really be considered "next gen" because graphically, its the same as the competetion, which has been around already.

I also just dont get the controller. Its like a half ass DS that doesnt play games on its own, that only one can be used at a time right? Its a controller with a small screen, even though I want to look at a bigger, better screen. 

[hypernova]

I also just dont get the controller. Its like a half ass DS that doesnt play games on its own, that only one can be used at a time right?

I'm a bit confused by this.  Is this right?  How exactly then does the multiplayer work when players are choosing plays in Madden or whatever?  I'm thinking it HAS to support more than one at a time.

[Dervacumen]

Well, I'll ignore all the crystal ball predictions and just say this:

I don't like it, it looks really awkward. I didn't like the Wii but after enough begging from my girlfriend we finally broke down and got one. And we played it for umm... a week? Waste of time and money. I wont let lightning strike my wallet again, I'm lookin at you Wii and GameCube

Funny. I had the same thing happen. Had no interest in the Wii. The wife wanted one. She kept bugging me about it. She wanted it to work out with Wii Fit. So we broke down and bought one. She played Wii Fit like 2 times, my son and I played Wii Sports and the only game on it worth playing was bowling. So we played that for like a week tops before we were bored of it. I modded the Wii and grabbed about 100 games for it. Out of the 100 I can count on 2 hands how many are actually good. And the ones that are good aren't good enough to make me want to turn the thing on. I actually prefer Gamecube games to most Wii titles.

EDIT: Sorry, I edited out a sentence that I just noticed didn't make any sense.

I don't want to pull too far off topic, but I must be in the minority here.  I play the Wii frequently, and probably about 25 games or so in my core rotation.
Since I play the top tier shooters and RPGs on the computer, I didn't want the Wii for outstanding graphics.  I wanted it to enjoy with my kid, and we do.  Doesn't anyone here just enjoy the console for the family time you can extract from it?  I dunno.

Now back to the WiiU controller.  My sister said today she is really interested in it.  And her reason?  So when someone is playing a game and she wants to watch TV, she gets an immediate win.  I think that's what's going to carry this.  The parents are going to buy a console for their kids, and if they get the WiiU they'll always have an ace in the hole when it comes to monopolizing game time.

[Corbo]

Any particular reason? As I have stated before, Im glad this generation has stuck around. Im not a fan of having my hardware become obsolete every 5 years

It's probably because I don't tend to buy consoles.  So I'm looking at it from a "what can they do next" point of view.  I would probably feel the same as you if I had a current gen console. 

How much better can things get?

Better than any of us can imagine.  Progress and technology will march on and when you look back in 1,2 or 3 generations you'll probably be saying the same about that generation of machines 

[Howard_Casto]

I also just dont get the controller. Its like a half ass DS that doesnt play games on its own, that only one can be used at a time right?

I'm a bit confused by this.  Is this right?  How exactly then does the multiplayer work when players are choosing plays in Madden or whatever?  I'm thinking it HAS to support more than one at a time.

I addressed this in the other thread (in which people started yelling and being stupid).  The Wii U can display graphics on up to 4 tablet controllers no problem.  That being said, at least for now, the feature where you can turn off the tv and play the game on the controller is limited to one player.  It all comes down to bandwidth and processing power.  It takes very little to display 4 menu-like displays or something similar, but it takes far more to display a full fledged game.  Right now the FIRST PARTY games are focusing on one tablet per game, but third-party developers have already shown demos where they are trying to use multiple controllers.

Also keep in mind the wii u's hardware (and thus software direction) isn't finalized yet.  We won't really know how it works for a while. 

That being said, nitnedo has expressed interest in serious online multiplayer this go around.  Even if it is one tablet per console, that doesn't mean one tablet per player considering your friends could play you in an online match.  That isn't my cup of tea... I prefer real live humans in the room with me, but it is the popular thing to do. 

[danny_galaga]

Aside from peripherals, how much better can things get?

 

[ChadTower]

It arrived 2 years after the Playstation, it should have been superior in every way.

The only way it was not superior was media size.  All that did was force them to write better real time games that were not crapped up with prerendered garbage.

The cartridge in the N64 was a total win in my eyes.  Zero load times vs loading up a PS game and going for a soda is huge.

[Howard_Casto]

It arrived 2 years after the Playstation, it should have been superior in every way.

The only way it was not superior was media size.  All that did was force them to write better real time games that were not crapped up with prerendered garbage.

The cartridge in the N64 was a total win in my eyes.  Zero load times vs loading up a PS game and going for a soda is huge.

Thanks for saying it so I didn't have to.    N64 3d looked WAAAAAY better than psx 3d.  Heck, even 2d looked better (see the psx version of MKT, vs the n64 version).  And also imho any of the first gen cd-based systems were complete crap based on load times alone.  Nintendo had the foresight to understand that x1 cdroms were NOT ready for prime-time.  Unfortunately for them, the idiot consumer only saw "ooo purdy videos in mah gamez" and bought inferior titles with huge load times. 

For the record, the GC disc size decision was based on two things:

1.  Specially sized discs would prevent piracy, which had been a huge issue with the previous generation of disc-based consoles.

2.  At the time developers were barely filling 50% of a game disc so the storage capacity didn't really matter.  Of course by the time the gc was at the end of it's life cycle it did tend to hurt them a litte bit, but it was at the end of the cycle, so it wasn't that big a deal.    I'm pretty sure that nintendo pressed the discs themselves as well, giving them a source of revenue, which is good for the consumer in the long run.

I hear tons of people complaining about this, when in this generation m$ decided to use a regular dvd disc and sony decided to use blu-ray, which hold far more data.  It is EXACTLY THE SAME THING!  And guess what?  Just like last gen m$'s decision to use regular dvds hasn't hurt them a bit because, just like last gen, most games don't even fill a full dvd, much less a huge blu-ray disc.  Sure there have been a few (castlevania, ect) but not enough to effect sales or the quality of the games.

[ChadTower]

Sounds like someone is forgetting that those N64 games just kept getting more and more expensive until Sega buzz killed it for everyone and locked Saturn games down to $50.

Gamestop was at its most useful by far during the N64 era.  Cartridges almost never fail and are easy to clean.  Near zero risk of buying a bad cartridge at a used game store.  That $65 game was $35 a few months later.

N64 sports games tended to suck because the lead time was so great on the cartridges and they were out of date upon release.  I had a Z64 when that system was in its prime and in some cases I was running retail games at least six months prior to release.  I never saw anything more than perhaps 2-3 weeks on anything else.

There are a lot of gamers, myself included, who don't care about sports games.  I haven't played Madden since it was 16 bit.  Even then I didn't care about the rosters.  The game plays just as well with last year's roster as it does with this year's roster.

[Bootay]

It arrived 2 years after the Playstation, it should have been superior in every way.

The only way it was not superior was media size.  All that did was force them to write better real time games that were not crapped up with prerendered garbage.

The cartridge in the N64 was a total win in my eyes.  Zero load times vs loading up a PS game and going for a soda is huge.

Thanks for saying it so I didn't have to.    N64 3d looked WAAAAAY better than psx 3d.  Heck, even 2d looked better (see the psx version of MKT, vs the n64 version).  And also imho any of the first gen cd-based systems were complete crap based on load times alone.  Nintendo had the foresight to understand that x1 cdroms were NOT ready for prime-time.  Unfortunately for them, the idiot consumer only saw "ooo purdy videos in mah gamez" and bought inferior titles with huge load times. 

For the record, the GC disc size decision was based on two things:

1.  Specially sized discs would prevent piracy, which had been a huge issue with the previous generation of disc-based consoles.

2.  At the time developers were barely filling 50% of a game disc so the storage capacity didn't really matter.  Of course by the time the gc was at the end of it's life cycle it did tend to hurt them a litte bit, but it was at the end of the cycle, so it wasn't that big a deal.    I'm pretty sure that nintendo pressed the discs themselves as well, giving them a source of revenue, which is good for the consumer in the long run.

I hear tons of people complaining about this, when in this generation m$ decided to use a regular dvd disc and sony decided to use blu-ray, which hold far more data.  It is EXACTLY THE SAME THING!  And guess what?  Just like last gen m$'s decision to use regular dvds hasn't hurt them a bit because, just like last gen, most games don't even fill a full dvd, much less a huge blu-ray disc.  Sure there have been a few (castlevania, ect) but not enough to effect sales or the quality of the games.

I agree that the N64's 3D was superior and the 0 load times were great. But PS1 had better titles in my opinion. N64 had a few winners like GoldenEye and the Nintendo flagship titles. But some of my favorite games of that era were on PS1. Metal Gear: Solid, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Final Fantasy 7, Resident Evil 1-3 to name just a few. Just my opinion though. And sure there were a lot of stinkers too especially in the beginning. I had a modded PS1 back then and my friend had a N64 with a Z64. So I was able to see the comparison on games first hand. The graphics were always a little more polished on N64 but the lack of speech and sound was kind of dull for some titles. Others I welcomed it...because lets face it, sometimes speech in games is repetitive and annoying. Sports games always felt bland without the commentary.

[Bootay]

Gamestop was at its most useful by far during the N64 era.  Cartridges almost never fail and are easy to clean.  Near zero risk of buying a bad cartridge at a used game store.  That $65 game was $35 a few months later.

This was another plus for N64. Disc based media sucks. It always gets scratched or fingerprinted up. Especially in a house with kids. Carts can be thrown across a room and still work for the most part. heh

[Donkbaca]

People, by and large, don't care about hardware, they care about software and the gaming experience.  So it really doesn't matter if it was superior in some ways, in my mind the N64 had three major problems:
1) sports games were out of date, and the lack of audio made them an inferior experience.  You don't play sports games, that's fine, but if it weren't for sports games, EA would have gone belly up years ago and 2K developers wouldn't exist.
2) the controller was inferior to the playstation.  It was too big and broke all the time.
3) The advantages of speed with a cartridge are way outweighed by the disadvantage of storage space.  The load times really weren't THAT bad, and the advantages with regards to sound and video and all that stuff are huge.  Think about one of the flagship games in the playstation library: FF7. Its a first gen disc, and the N64 could never have a RPG that was that long, with that many bells and whistles.

So basically the N4 sucked for a lot of things:
Sucked for sports
Sucked for RPGs
Sucked for fighters due to the lousy controller.

[shmokes]

The N64 had a superior D-pad and 6 face buttons.  How does that suck for fighters? 

[Malenko]

The N64 had a superior D-pad and 6 face buttons.  How does that suck for fighters? 

the official controller had 4 buttons smaller then the other 2? I know KIGold and MKT were a bit awkward on it

[Mikezilla]

I particularly liked the N64 controller. At first I was a little put off by it, but I got used to it. I am not a fan of the stupid D-pad on all the generations of PS controllers. Why does it have to be 4 seperate buttons anyway?

[ChadTower]

FF7. Its a first gen disc, and the N64 could never have a RPG that was that long, with that many bells and whistles.

I had FF7.  I hated that game.  It wasn't even a game.  It was a movie with some controller interaction involved.  What I remember most about FF7 was putting down the controller for minutes at a time during prerendered scenes.  That isn't a game to me.

So basically the N4 sucked for a lot of things:
Sucked for sports
Sucked for RPGs
Sucked for fighters due to the lousy controller.

I don't play any of those.  I like platformers and action games.  It's a preference, thing, really.  

[Donkbaca]

The N64 sucked for fighters because the controller was awkward for its size and shape and because there basically no good fighting games released for it, other than the MKs, neither of which, really, are all that great.  Whatever advantage 6 face buttons gives you is outweighed by the fact that no Capcom fighters were released for the N64, which are pretty much the best fighters that use 6 buttons.

Also, no Tekken, soul Caliber, Snk fighters.....

[Bootay]

I personally loved FF7. But I am a fan of turn based RPGs. I will agree that some of the spells were soooo long and overdrawn just to show you pretty graphics. But there was more to it than that. Yes when an FMV started you needed to be prepare to watch for a while. I had fun with it though.

I am not going to hate on the N64 because I thought it was a decent console, I just thought PS1 had a better selection of quality titles. But since the library was so huge it also had a large selection of stinky ones...and FMV games too (which are also quite stinky). Especially in the beginning.

I remember I bought my PS1 for $300 back when it first came out. And the only selections for games were MK3, Battle Arena Toshinden, and a few other 3DO ports such as Road Rash, Gex, Total Eclipse, Novastorm, etc. Sure, the PS1 versions of the 3DO games looked better than the 3DO versions, but they weren't good games to begin with. So I mainly found myself playing MK3 and Battle Arena Toshinden until the library expanded beyond porting. By the time Resident Evil and Tomb Raider came out though, a good amount of the games released were quality titles.

Honestly, aside from Nintendo flagship games Goldeneye, Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, and Perfect Dark are the only titles that come to mind that I liked on N64. Oh and the Banjo Kazooie games were alright too. There might be more...I don't recall off the top of my head. Someone remind me.

[ChadTower]

Without mentioning the first party games...

...Conker's Bad Fur Day is a great game.   

[shmokes]

N64 was Rare's heyday.  They did Blast Corps, Diddy Kong Racing, Banjoe Kazooie, Conker, Donkey Kong.  Did they do Star Fox?  Cos that was a great game on N64.

Then there was Turok, Top Gear, Tetrisphere (seriously . . . it's awesome), Mario Tennis and Golf were made by Camelot Games or something, I think.  And there were some really good sports titles for the system.  International Super Star Soccer was much better than the FIFA series.  And there was a great baseball game for the system, made by Acclaim IIRC.

But, obviously, as with any Nintendo console, the cream of the crop was 9 times out of 10 made by Nintendo.

[Vigo]

N64 was the party machine. Nobody would get together for PS1 or PS2 games. It was all about the 64 when friends were over.

But yeah, most the best games were by nintendo. One of the few systems that would be worth owning for the first party games alone. Here are the games that I remember liking for the 64:

Battletanx (both 1 and 2)
The Cruisn' games
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
WCW/NWO Revenge
Dr. Mario
F-Zero
Wayne Gretzky 3d hockey
Gauntlet Legends
Diddy Kong Racing
Smash Bros
Harvest Moon 64
Jet Force Gemini
The Zelda Games
The Mario games: cart, party, tennis, paper mario etc.
MK4, MK trilogy
NFL Blitz games
Ogre Battle
Pilotwings
Wave race
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, Racer, Shadows of the empire
Quake
Rampage World Tour
Snowboard Kids 1 & 2
Star Fox
Blast Corps
Tony Hawk games - i think the psx versions might have been better though.
Turok Games

[ChadTower]

The N64 had the best wrestling games ever.  Better than before, better than now, just better. 

Until Acclaim got their hands on the WWF license, that is.

[Donkbaca]

I agree, the best multiplayer games were N64.  I would say N64 had best wrestling games; FPS; and platformers.  Everything else I would have to give to PS

Better SHMUPS
Better BMUPS
Better RPGS
Better Fighting Games
Better Baseball/Football/Basketball games

[Corbo]

Agreed on the multiplayer, I have great memories of 4 player Golden Eye and Mario Kart sessions.

[Bootay]

N64 was Rare's heyday.  They did Blast Corps, Diddy Kong Racing, Banjoe Kazooie, Conker, Donkey Kong.  Did they do Star Fox?  Cos that was a great game on N64.

Then there was Turok, Top Gear, Tetrisphere (seriously . . . it's awesome), Mario Tennis and Golf were made by Camelot Games or something, I think.  And there were some really good sports titles for the system.  International Super Star Soccer was much better than the FIFA series.  And there was a great baseball game for the system, made by Acclaim IIRC.

But, obviously, as with any Nintendo console, the cream of the crop was 9 times out of 10 made by Nintendo.

Most of those games I considered Nintendo games because they are Nintendo characters. Out of the ones that aren't Nintendo characters, Turok was good for its day and Tetrisphrere was good too. Not a fan of the soccer games.

N64 was the party machine. Nobody would get together for PS1 or PS2 games. It was all about the 64 when friends were over.

But yeah, most the best games were by nintendo. One of the few systems that would be worth owning for the first party games alone. Here are the games that I remember liking for the 64:

Battletanx (both 1 and 2)
The Cruisn' games
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
WCW/NWO Revenge
Dr. Mario
F-Zero
Wayne Gretzky 3d hockey
Gauntlet Legends
Diddy Kong Racing
Smash Bros
Harvest Moon 64
Jet Force Gemini
The Zelda Games
The Mario games: cart, party, tennis, paper mario etc.
MK4, MK trilogy
NFL Blitz games
Ogre Battle
Pilotwings
Wave race
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, Racer, Shadows of the empire
Quake
Rampage World Tour
Snowboard Kids 1 & 2
Star Fox
Blast Corps
Tony Hawk games - i think the psx versions might have been better though.
Turok Games

Some of those were also on PS1 and were either better or the same, but you reminded me of the wrestling games. Yes N64 had the best wrestling games. WCW/NWO Revenge was great. And you know what...looking back I think N64 has as many good flagship titles as NES and SNES so yes it would be worth owning for those alone. (I already own a N64 though). The Mario Sports games are fun and the Mario Party games are great for when friends are over. Pretty much all of the Nintendo games are great on N64. It's been a little while since I dusted the N64 off. This thread has inspired me to do so.  
 

[shmokes]

I seem to remember the N64 being good for racers too.  Only Top Gear Rally (which was awesome) comes to mind at the moment though.  I mean, there were also Mario Kart and F-Zero X and Waverace and 1080, I guess, which were all great, but those were also all Nintendo.  It seems like third parties did well on the system, but maybe I'm misremembering that.  I know there was a good Ridge Racer game, but that came out way earlier on the Playstation.


p.s.  I didn't forget the Cruis'n games.  I think they suck, and I thought so when they were released too.

[Mikezilla]

Without mentioning the first party games...

...Conker's Bad Fur Day is a great game.   

I LOVE that game. LOVE. Its sells pretty well on Ebay/CL. As for RPG's go, Ogre Battle 64 was an amazing, overlooked game. I logged more hours on this iteration of Nintendo probably more than any other, just because of Goldeneye(replay value) and Ocarina of time. I never once broke a controller either.

[Bootay]

Oddly enough, Beetle Adventure Racing was a hell of a lot of fun on that system if you could get over the stupid theme.

 

Yea I liked that game too. Although this is the first time I ever admitted it in public. 

[DaveMMR]

Thanks for saying it so I didn't have to.    N64 3d looked WAAAAAY better than psx 3d.  Heck, even 2d looked better (see the psx version of MKT, vs the n64 version).  And also imho any of the first gen cd-based systems were complete crap based on load times alone.  Nintendo had the foresight to understand that x1 cdroms were NOT ready for prime-time.  Unfortunately for them, the idiot consumer only saw "ooo purdy videos in mah gamez" and bought inferior titles with huge load times. 

I agree with your points but let's not blame the consumer on the downfall of the cartridge.  It was all about media cost and NOT having to pay Nintendo all these fees to manufacture them.  They were able to do bigger games for cheaper (well, in theory; the added costs of rendering cut-scenes, hiring voice actors and musicians, etc. negated the savings - but at least it's going for a better gaming experience, not for manufacturing).  Consumers simply went where the games were - and Nintendo lost some big players with their cartridge-based system.  And that's where we are.

Otherwise, I agree.  Cartridges always seemed better from a collectors standpoint.  They are easily identifiable and seem overall more reliable.  There were some rumblings that the industry was thinking of switching BACK to the cartridge for home consoles (with the price of storage going down while space goes up - see: your thumb drive) as a possible solution to piracy; assuming they don't just go right to a download-only delivery method.   I actually wouldn't mind it.

[shmokes]

That would be cool.  I don't see it happening, though.  Wii U is disk-based.  If PS4 or 360 use physical media I think it'll be the last time.  Both will, I think, but I think it'll be the last time.  There are just so many reasons to go all digital-delivery.  Nintendo is the retailer for EVERY game sold through WiiWare.  Why cut Wal-Mart or Gamestop in if you don't have to?  Plus, no second-hand market or, worse, lending games.  Once you buy a game, it's yours and nobody else's forever.  Bad for consumer, but great for publisher.  It's gonna happen.  Soon.

[Donkbaca]

Maybe, maybe not. All digital delivery was a disaster for the psp go

[shmokes]

Apple seems to do okay with it.  Music and apps.  It's coming.

[Howard_Casto]

Apple seems to do okay with it.  Music and apps.  It's coming.

Well it's already here.  But games *proper* will never be released to direct-download.  What we have right now (on the 360/ps3 side) is that a few weeks to a couple of months after the physical media is released, the game is available for direct download at a slighlty reduced price.  The physical copy is still the primary distro though and it will remain that way. 

For the music industry, btw, it is the same way.  Sure you can generally get music downloads on release day BUT if you go into a music store or your local S-Mart you'll still find those old fashioned Cds to buy.  And thank god for that because I prefer to own something and be able to do whatever I damn well please with it rather than merely owning the lease to some ip and a bit of vapor.

This is just common sense business practice.  Most media (cds/videos/games/ect) can be played without an internet connection.  If you go a direct-download only route, said games can only be played with an internet connection and thus you have instantly cut off access to some of your consumer base.  Yes, I know it sounds insaine, but even in this day and age owners of video game consoles might have slow internet access or even no access at all! The managers of the VC/xbl/psn really need to take note of this as well.  It would be nice to have periodic disc-based releases of the online stores available.  I know that every title would be impossible, but perhaps they could release volumes every quarter or so?

That being said, I think the return to solid-state might be a possibility.  Back in the day ss was a very specilized tech and rarely used for anything outside of military tech and video games.  Now with flash drives and ss harddrives it is very common, very generic, and thus quite cheap.  If given an appropriate package I wouldn't have a bit of a problem buying ss games, in fact I would welcome it as games like MK9 wouldn't have a crippled shang tsung due to poor load times on dvds. 

That was pretty much my reason not to get a psx back in the day btw.... on the snes/n64 shang could morph into any of the characters.  On the psx you had to choose in the options which group of characters he could morph into and even then in certain circumstances the game would grind to a halt when he morphed.  It was really the defining moment that made me realize that disc media was not for me.

[Corbo]

Sure you can generally get music downloads on release day BUT if you go into a music store or your local S-Mart you'll still find those old fashioned Cds to buy

I would if there was a music store open in a 50 mile radius of me, they have all closed down.

I fully agree with your points, but the industry is going in the direction of digital distribution and micro payments.  If not this generation then next.

[Malenko]

That was pretty much my reason not to get a psx back in the day btw.... on the snes/n64 shang could morph into any of the characters.  On the psx you had to choose in the options which group of characters he could morph into and even then in certain circumstances the game would grind to a halt when he morphed.  It was really the defining moment that made me realize that disc media was not for me.

I see you post this every time the PSX/N64 discussion comes up. The only downfall to this? Shag Tsung sucked and no one ever picked him, and if they did, they'd always morph into scorpion and sub zero. If you think the PSX version has load times, play the Saturn Version of MKII or MKT, the supreme demonstration takes roughly 38 minutes to watch on the saturn (yes I own MKII and MKT on saturn)

[versapak]

Apple seems to do okay with it.  Music and apps.  It's coming.

It works for apple, because everything is dirt cheap. If games on the iOS app store were even remotely close to $60, then they wouldn't sell at all.

[Donkbaca]

It is already here, it's nit coming. The go was a failure and you can buy full games in xbox live. It's completely different from music and apps for a few reasons, mostly price.
If they had 99 cent ges I would believe it, but they won't