time to ask again... how is the job market or econamy to you?

[shmokes]

Speaking of oil, as much as I love to see the revolutions all over the middle east, I'm not excited to see the effect skyrocketing oil prices are going to have on the world's already rickety economies.

[ark_ader]

Speaking of oil, as much as I love to see the revolutions all over the middle east, I'm not excited to see the effect skyrocketing oil prices are going to have on the world's already rickety economies.

Maybe it is time to look for a bike.  I'm lucky as I can walk to work, but an electric bicycle, is about as green as you can get.  They are not cheap but can help out on hills or first thing in the morning.

I don't know about Florida, but Las Vegas in the evening was nice weather for a ride to the supermarket.

[shmokes]

I'm not particularly concerned about the direct effect gas prices will have on my wallet at the pump.  I'm concerned about the effect they will have on the overall economy.  People who rely solely on public transit still have to deal with higher unemployment, higher food prices, higher airfare prices, higher shipping costs, higher product (of every kind) costs, higher utility bills, etc.

There is no aspect of the economy that isn't directly affected by a sharp spike in oil prices.

[Donkbaca]

yeah, but its not all negative.  I live in an oil producing region and high oil prices means the economy will do better here.  More oil field workers, and oilfield support which is a mix of skilled and unskilled labor.  More money in the local economy to spend.

Its just temporary though, it will all blow over by September.

[shmokes]

I don't care about your economy!  I need a job.   

[Donkbaca]

move out here to central california!

[shmokes]

No way . . . then I'd have to take another bar exam.  And taking the first one was like the worst thing that's ever happened to me.   

[Ginsu Victim]

My wife and I are still out of work. (Since beginning of Dec)

Thinking we might take some classes.

If you're dead set on Oklahoma, move to Oklahoma City or Tulsa.  Those cities are doing well.

I like small town life too much. I lived in Houston before moving here, and I don't miss it one bit.

[shmokes]

Yeah seriously, it's really unfair to the rest of the cities in the world to think of a Texas city as representative*.  Texas is miserable.






*Sorry Austin, it's not your fault.  You're actually pretty cool.

[ark_ader]

I don't care about your economy!  I need a job.   

Did your fellow graduates have the same problem? Did they find employment? 

Can you not take six months off and do some free intern work at a large organization, to get some experience?

I appreciate your situation, but there must be other avenues you can explore, with the skills you have.

[Dartful Dodger]

I appreciate your situation, but there must be other avenues you can explore, with the skills you have.

If you believe that then you don't appreciate his situation. 

The jobs that require the least skills (and pay) are the only jobs available.

I've got a good job, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it's secure.

My company just took over for a bigger company. I've been looking through their raw files and it's really basic stuff. I know the people that worked for that company were being paid twice as much has me, I can't believe they were getting paid so much for so little quality. It's opened my eyes. I'm not an elite programmer and there are lots of better programmers who have been out of work  for a while and they're pretty desperate right about now.

If I lost my job today, my best bet would be waiting tables and even then I'd have trouble getting hired.

[ark_ader]

I appreciate your situation, but there must be other avenues you can explore, with the skills you have.

If you believe that then you don't appreciate his situation. 

The jobs that require the least skills (and pay) are the only jobs available.

I've got a good job, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it's secure.

My company just took over for a bigger company. I've been looking through their raw files and it's really basic stuff. I know the people that worked for that company were being paid twice as much has me, I can't believe they were getting paid so much for so little quality. It's opened my eyes. I'm not an elite programmer and there are lots of better programmers who have been out of work  for a while and they're pretty desperate right about now.

If I lost my job today, my best bet would be waiting tables and even then I'd have trouble getting hired.

I would look at other avenues too.  The adult industry is booming so is the gaming sector.

I know it isn't ideal, but beggars cannot be choosers.

[Ginsu Victim]

Oklahoma City isn't nearly the same magnitude as Houston, dude.  Seriously.

I'm there all the time. I know it isn't even close.

Thing is, I live in a ONE TRAFFIC LIGHT town with a population of 1,516. Crazy enough, I actually like it.

I just do not like big (hell, medium sized) city life at all.

[shateredsoul]

I'm working on my phd and taking my sweet time.. hoping that the job market will be better when I finish. 

still...

-tuition is going up (i'm at a public uni in California)
-TA positions are going to get cut back (a lot of us get our funding from TAships, they pay our tuition and give us about 18k to live off for the year)
-Jobs in academia are scarce
-Some are trying to get rid of tenure
-I'm drowning in debt (accumulated before phd)
-I think the University of California system is looking at a 500 million dollar cut, maybe I should get out of here as soon as possible

on the upside

- I received a writing grant, that I'm still waiting on since about last June =(
- I got my traveling and hotel expenses covered to go to a conference thanks to the NIH grant I have and an NSF grant my adviser has
- I have a NIH grant that funds my Graduate Student Research position. It also covers my tuition and gives me $$ to live on (less than if I were a TA though) and gives me some money for future academic related costs
- doing some work on the side which pays more than I've ever made in my life, still not much but more than adequate fo rnow
- I might apply to a Microsoft internship to do work with them for a summer
- We have a grant writing class to encourage us to seek more funding
- I get free food for going to presentations and meetings sometimes

[Kevin Mullins]

Thing is, I live in a ONE TRAFFIC LIGHT town with a population of 1,516.

You guys have a stop light ?!? 
(yeah, we don't)

I live @30 miles outside of OKC and it's perfect for us. We're smack dab in the middle between Shawnee and OKC, so either direction is not too far for work, college, shopping, etc. But when I go home...it's the hell a way from the "city".

As for the "economy"..... not much has changed really, prices for everything goes up, wages stay the same, what's new about any of that? (aside from the rate hikes coming faster)
Seems like when companies feel the economic crunch their solution is to raise their prices for everything..... uh....that doesn't work out so well in the long run if people can't afford it to begin with.

[shateredsoul]

hmm you should start by helping that geoshot geo... whatever kid. The ps3 jailbreaker.

[ark_ader]

I'm working on my phd and taking my sweet time.. hoping that the job market will be better when I finish. 

If you are drowning in debt, do you think you should do something about it, or are you considering bankruptcy?

[shateredsoul]

Well, I'm married and don't know if I can. I know people, in my same field, who have about 30,0000 more than I do! So, that makes me feel a little better about it.

Honestly, I have considered that option, but since I'm married I don't know how that works. I think my wife and I put together make a pretty ok income and would not be allowed to declare bankruptcy. The thing is that I really don't have the means to pay off any of the debt right now, we split the bills pretty evenly so that leaves me with not very much each month.

The amount of years it will take me to pay my debt back really depends on whether i go into academia or industry after graduating. Academic jobs start at about 50k to 60k (that isn't much for people living in California). From what I hear in Industry you at least start with 60k and I've talked to a research director in an industry job who told me that she makes more than most professors at my University plus she doesn't have to worry about teaching (she still gets to decide the direction of her research too!).

[shmokes]

If any of your debt is student loans, just remember that those debts survive bankruptcy.  Also, i hesitate to recommend bankruptcy, but it really is a tool that does a lot of good and is good for our economy.  If you think you might resort to it, go talk to some lawyers.  And I can't stress enough the plural there.  Talk to at least three.  It will be free.  All bankruptcy lawyers give free consultations.  A lot will recommend it just so they make some money, though, so be careful and pay attention and ask questions.

[shateredsoul]

If any of your debt is student loans, just remember that those debts survive bankruptcy.  Also, i hesitate to recommend bankruptcy, but it really is a tool that does a lot of good and is good for our economy.  If you think you might resort to it, go talk to some lawyers.  And I can't stress enough the plural there.  Talk to at least three.  It will be free.  All bankruptcy lawyers give free consultations.  A lot will recommend it just so they make some money, though, so be careful and pay attention and ask questions.

oh yeah? then It's probably not an option then, it's all due to student loans. I think it's manageable, and I figure it was an investment in my future.. there's worse things I could be in debt for. I never was really serious about that, and especially now that I know education loans survive. It would have been nice if Obama had helped students out a bit more instead of the banks. Oh well.

Thanks for the info.

[boykster]

Dude, we need to talk.  Cut your starting figures in half and forget all that "decide the direction" nonsense and you'll be approaching reality.

You do realize you're going to need to do 4-7 years of post doc, right?  And if you want to be taken seriously, those years need to span at least 2 different institutions ideally in two different states.  You'll also be making less than technicians.  Oh, and now they're expecting all the industry PhDs to go get an MBA.

Academia?  You're staring at the worst funding situation in modern history.  Best of luck unless you're a bomb or a bank.

At the end of the process, it's a soft touch comfortable life, but they're going to make damn sure you play the game before you get there.

I agree with some of what you're saying, and disagree with quite a bit of it.  It really depends on what field the Ph.D. is in though.  Cutting starting figures in 1/2 depends on the state and field.  We hire fresh Ph.D's for industry post-doc positions in the 50k salary range (biotech) in the seattle area.  A Ph.D. with a full post-doc resume but no industry experience might get 5-10k more than that to start.  Starting techs make less than that (40-50k) but their ramp is much less steep.

As for industry expecting PhD's to get MBA's, that's a load of bunk.  We turn away MBA/PhD's for research/development positions - marketing or sales, sure, then it's an asset.  As for cred being based on 4-7 years + multiple institutions?  Yes, that's true.  Academic funding being bad?  Yes, absolutely - its a big crunch now and institutions are scrambling to keep positions funded and are shuffling a ton of staff to 'soft money' funded positions - essentially 100% grant funded spots that are crap, low paying, and no stability.

And as for directing your own research - nope - not going to happen unless you're a fast track Nobel candidate or land a monster grant that aligns with your research.  Eventually you might, but any research director in industry that says they truly control their research focus is lying to themselves as much as to you - industry marches to the beat of profit and marketable products. 

Not trying to kill your dream - just some info from someone who's been in industry in biotech for 15years and is a director of a department....

[shateredsoul]

well maybe i shouldn't call it industry.. but not sure what to call it

She works at a research institute that tries to get more women into computer science careers, she applies for her own funding and the institute takes 30% overhead (less than what a university takes). I'm not sure, but I think it's the sort of position where you apply to grants to pay yourself. There's a few of these around that focus on education as well.

Alternatively, I've heard that a graduate from our program that's directing a nonprofit's research program in Oakland to decide what medical needs people in the community have and how to create programs that will be used by community members.

Now, I'm sure if I worked for Microsoft I'd probably have no choice, unless they wanted to use my area of expertise (crosscultural research) to develop some way of improving their customer service in India for US callers. Dunno 

They also are hiring our type (social scientists) in the military now a days, but I'm not as interested in that.

The other option is going for that 50k job, but moving to a place where that's income can get a better lifestyle than California. A lot of jobs in academia are in the midwest nowadays.. so who knows.