time to ask again... how is the job market or econamy to you?

[daywane]

me still work , work, work...
58 to 70 hrs a week. Start at 3:30 am or 5 am to 3:30 pm Monday - Saturday sundays off most the time.
one operator quit on first shift. This leaves Chris and Myself on first shift
Second shift a operator has had some mental problems come up. (O.C.D.) he has lost the ability to set up the machines. ( I like the guy but darn it its killing Chris and my self)
the other operator on second )Mike.. He can only do one machine. not the other 2 machines.

My partner Chris is also going out to have hip surgery.

My company just took a new contract with Chrysler!!!  do to start up in Sept or Oct. Our machines are allready maxed out! The company is ordering a new machine. Great .. but we are short of operators and I still need time to train them. jobs have been posted but nobody bids on my job.... to much over time.

[Malenko]

just quit my thankless job at comcast and now Im working for a small IT firm (helpdesk support and server administration) and loving it.

[drventure]

Contracted with a law firm to build a Word template merge package last year. Finished early, so no work over christmas, but they called me back in to take a look at DB slowdowns right now. 2 month contract and then?

But the wife is doing good, so no worries. I'm waiting to see what happens with Texas's budget shortfalls though.

[Dervacumen]

Was good until Thursday when I became unemployed.
All in all, a tough market around here for anyone other than low end or very high end.

[ark_ader]

I reduced my hours to give time to school and family.

It won't last though.  I wish I won the lottery so I can stay at home forever.

Hopefully by then it will all be work from home. 

[SNAAKE]

bum mostly

[boykster]

My company and group have grown like gangbusters even in the down economy.  24mos ago our company had a layoff / house-cleaning and we were down to about 35 people, my group was just me.  Now the company is over 90 people and I have 3 direct reports.

[AtomSmasher]

Started a new job about 6 months ago and things have been going pretty good.  I racked up a fair amount of debt in the past few years trying to get by, and now I'm actually paying off my debt instead of making it larger (I'm paying it off very slowly, but it's still a huge step in the right direction).  I'm told I'll be getting a raise and more stock in the next month or so (this is a very small company, so I think it's possible they're telling the truth), and if that happens then I'll be doing very well financially.  I just have to wait for the stock to go public and all my debt will magically disappear

[Daniel270]

Still the stay-at-home husband.   12 year anniversary yesterday!  Wouldn't change it for the world.

[garwil]

I'm a nurse in the UK and it's pretty grim at the moment. The govt. is slashing budgets left, right and centre, meaning that my hospital has a 3 year plan to close 4 wards and cut 400 jobs. Even the big hospitals in London are having problems. Work conditions are appalling and the pay is terrible. I need to win the lottery!

[Capt.Dreamer]

I work Customer Service in the video game industry and the going's been good for now.

Although, I think the recession is catching up to even us and hope that things dont get too bad. =/

[jamesjones626]

Job has been going strong since i can remmember.  As long as everyone eats a corn product i have no worries.  So everyone please keep eating chips, tortillas, taco bell, any frozen food with a corn product in it.

[amendonz]

yeh, i'm kinda like this guy /\, i work in supermarket distribution, and if anything we have gotten stronger as people tend to eat out less...



to be completely honest, i wouldn't have even noticed there was a recession if it wasn't on the news so much.. everything seems peachy as... 

[cdbrown]

Was seconded into a clients office, meant to be only for 3months to do a certain job.  12 months later I'm still here, in charge of the department and looking at being here for another 12 months.  Interesting to work on a $8b oil and gas project.  Pity the politics of everything make things move quite slow.

[shmokes]

Was good until Thursday when I became unemployed.
All in all, a tough market around here for anyone other than low end or very high end.

It's a tough market at the high end too.  Worst job market for lawyers in like 70 years.

garwil, would you consider coming to the U.S.?  I'm pretty sure we're still in a nurse-shortage crisis right now so getting a work permit wouldn't be a problem.  And Nurses here make a pretty decent living.

[dre-w]

Going on my 5th year working for Yamaha Motor Corporation in CA.. managed to survive 2 waves of layoffs.. but it looks like things are starting to pick up again.

[DaOld Man]

My job is still doing good. We produce can sheet aluminum for beer and soda cans.
In the nearly 24 years Ive been there, never a layoff.
Its sad to say, but it appears the worse things are the more people drink beer, so this business seems to float right through (pardon the pun).
Other factories in this area are not doing very good.

[garwil]

@Shmokes It's definitely something I've been thinking about. Just waiting for Mrs. Garwil to qualify and get some experience then we're gonna start looking. We're thinking about either the US or Canada, then saving up and traveling the world doing voluntary work.

[Blanka]

My job is still doing good. We produce can sheet aluminum for beer and soda cans.

USA? Here cans are from iron. They say that tastes better and easier to recycle (magnets).

[spoot]

The Bakken oil fields are turning things upside down around here.  The State of ND is getting flush with cash (think we're the only state with a surplus anymore?) and smaller towns to the east of here are exploding and growing.  Which seems GREAT at first, but I'm seeing a disturbing trend that landlords are simply kicking up rent farther and farther to milk the oil workers who can easily afford it while shafting those who are just scraping by.   

And to make matters more interesting........the hospital (non-profit) I work for is broke again.   

[shmokes]

. . . then saving up and traveling the world doing voluntary work.

Hopefully you mean volunteer work.  I'd hate to see you travel the world by getting mixed up with the wrong end of the slave trade.   

[DaOld Man]

USA? Here cans are from iron. They say that tastes better and easier to recycle (magnets).

Blanka, where are you? I havent seen a beer in a tin (iron, whatever) can since I was a kid (1960's maybe early 70's)

Aluminum is a lot easier to recycle than steel or iron. Almost 100% can be recycled.
Energy needed for recycling is a fraction of steel or iron.
We recycle our scrap and it goes right back into an ingot, which is rolled out into a thin sheet.

[bleargh]

Job market and the economy are totally in the crapper as far as I'm concerned.

I've been a programmer for ~30yrs, and have never seen the market crap out as bad as this.  Historically its always been an "employees market" in my niche of the industry (Server/back-end programmers, Un*x/Linux deployment platform), but when the economy choked ~2-3yrs back it completely became an "employers market".

When it first crapped out I was working on a long term contract, and faced with the prospect of having it come to an end and having to compete against guys taking "10 cents on the dollar" just to have any job and put food on their table, I chose to convert my contract position to full-time.  Cost me a 40% cut in take-home pay (mostly due a change in my tax status as a FTE), putting me far below the water mark for our monthly finances.

Although the market has improved since then, I see it suffering from employers thinking they only have to pay their programmers "10 cents on the dollar"; they've gotten so used to the ultra-cheap wages they were able to force people into when times were rough, they're not interested in bringing people back to anywhere near the wages they had before the crash.

I keep looking, but haven't yet found anything tastier than where I'm at right now.  Thankfully, I like the guys on my team, so its not like work is "work"; its still quite fun.  Used to be more fun, though, when I didn't have to pull overtime or off-hours gigs in order to make ends meet.   

[Blanka]

Blanka, where are you? I havent seen a beer in a tin (iron, whatever) can since I was a kid (1960's maybe early 70's)

Well here in Holland they are plain 'ol steel. People don't want aluminium because of the taste. Guess Brussels want to convert us to aluminium, but without success. Don't know how other European countries do, mostly if we do something it's because the Germans do so, so lets open a topic for regional can materials used.

Regarding the job market, it is really good here. But our region is really on the high tech ups and downs, an when the largest integrated circuit lithography company (70% marketshare) is doing well (Apple, Intel, Samsung they all need them), all Eindhoven is doing well. Even our truck factory is doing great again. A few years ago the traffic jams were outward, in the direction of Utrecht and Amsterdam. Now they are inward.

[Blanka]

Aluminum is a lot easier to recycle than steel or iron. Almost 100% can be recycled.

Technically yes, but practically no. I mean, how many of your cans are actually recycled? Here it is close to 100%, even if they are put in the general garbage bins. Putting cans in a landfill is not the best recycling.

[danny_galaga]

Well, I've still managed to not go postal 

 But the future of mail isn't looking rosy. Post pretty much relies on attrition to reduce employee numbers thankfully. But there is a lot of grumbling. That brings me down a bit because a lot of posties don't get that it is a dying vocation. They mock every management decision (many have the reasoning ability of Homer Simpson) I accept it and try and enjoy it while I can. I've been a postie for 3 1/2 years now. I was saying to someone the other day that this must be what it felt like for a farrier to have finished his apprenticeship just after WWI.

[garwil]

. . . then saving up and traveling the world doing voluntary work.

Hopefully you mean volunteer work.  I'd hate to see you travel the world by getting mixed up with the wrong end of the slave trade.   

That couldn't be any worse than working for the National Health Service lol!

[ark_ader]

. . . then saving up and traveling the world doing voluntary work.

Hopefully you mean volunteer work.  I'd hate to see you travel the world by getting mixed up with the wrong end of the slave trade.   

That couldn't be any worse than working for the National Health Service lol!

Give me a break.  You can do locum work and still make out better.  I used to work for medical staffing in the UK for a large hospital, and the cash these locum nurses get is unbelievable.  Maybe you need to pack up and move up north.  Besides your US indemnity insurance would be more than you earned for the both of you, as you will have to be insured.  Then there is the issue of green cards, as as Shmokes said - its a tough market.  So don't think they will be begging you to come over.  There are cheaper alternatives.

[shmokes]

Ark, I said that the legal job market is awful.  The nursing job market is another thing altogether.

[ark_ader]

Ark, I said that the legal job market is awful.  The nursing job market is another thing altogether.

True, but there alternatives than having someone emigrate on the notion that there is sustained employment, when there is an active job market in this country.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the pond.

[Mikezilla]

Blanka, where are you? I havent seen a beer in a tin (iron, whatever) can since I was a kid (1960's maybe early 70's)

Well here in Holland they are plain 'ol steel. People don't want aluminium because of the taste. Guess Brussels want to convert us to aluminium, but without success. Don't know how other European countries do, mostly if we do something it's because the Germans do so, so lets open a topic for regional can materials used.

Regarding the job market, it is really good here. But our region is really on the high tech ups and downs, an when the largest integrated circuit lithography company (70% marketshare) is doing well (Apple, Intel, Samsung they all need them), all Eindhoven is doing well. Even our truck factory is doing great again. A few years ago the traffic jams were outward, in the direction of Utrecht and Amsterdam. Now they are inward.

Not to derail this thread or anything, but Blanka, have you heard of Dutch beer? Thats the brand name. Says its brewed in holland. My local market picked it up, and it tastes like a poor mans Heineken. But man, it was 3.99 a six pack of bottles! Gotta love that! 

[shmokes]

Ark, I said that the legal job market is awful.  The nursing job market is another thing altogether.

True, but there alternatives than having someone emigrate on the notion that there is sustained employment, when there is an active job market in this country.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the pond.

No . . . but sometimes it is.  I don't know anything about the nursing market in the UK, but having the opportunity to emigrate is a powerful reason to make the move even if your local market is moving.  Not many people even have the option and it's a great adventure that exposes you to so many new experiences. 

[ark_ader]

Ark, I said that the legal job market is awful.  The nursing job market is another thing altogether.

True, but there alternatives than having someone emigrate on the notion that there is sustained employment, when there is an active job market in this country.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the pond.

No . . . but sometimes it is.  I don't know anything about the nursing market in the UK, but having the opportunity to emigrate is a powerful reason to make the move even if your local market is moving.  Not many people even have the option and it's a great adventure that exposes you to so many new experiences. 

I'm just saving them for the possibility of losing large amounts of cash and anguish.

My family is 99% British, which I am the only one who is American (born).  My family was bitten by the emigration bug, only to find themselves torn between the US and the UK.  It is not like you are moving from Somalia to the US.  The UK and the US is very similar.  It was a completely different point in the 1950's when my parents settled in Southern California.  The UK was still in rationing, and the US looked like paradise to them. It was.

Today it isn't the same.  It costs a lot more to get started and the borders are more tighter today then what it was.  You leave loved ones in the UK and then eventually you feel very homesick, you move back and forth and get stuck in a cycle, never completely happy as you want the best of both worlds.  Believe me, our family all have the T-shirts.  You have to be 100% committed, otherwise the venture is hubris.

I would love to go home permanently, but I am better off here financially.  I do go back, not as much as I used to before the recession, as you can see the cycle is still effective.  I agree. The US is a blast.  The best place on earth. Opportunities abound.  I think of home and the life I had, then I think of the UK.... and it is not so bad.  Well I would like a bit of warm LA weather. 

My older brothers are still in the US, and I just got word, that my brother lost his job of 20 years last week.  He was top of his game 2 years ago.  The bills still need to be paid.  No NHS over there, or extensive benefits like in the UK.  Cobra is expensive too.  Scary place to live in, without a job.  He is a fighter, and I bet he will have a job by the end of the month.

I know you guys can relate to that.  Sometimes a simple choice might become a huge personal risk, in this climate.  Something I wouldn't want to anyone to go through.  Nice to go on holiday, nice to come back home.  BTW: stay liquid and buy gold, and leave the globe trotting to those who can afford it.

Something rather pertinent considering the aptly titled thread.   

[shmokes]

I agree. The US is a blast. 

The US is a blast.  But lest you think I'm just promoting my country it's worth mentioning that I am actively trying to leave.  My first choice for a job is in Paris and that's my primary destination for resumes.  I'm also working on getting a long-term work visa there, which is extraordinarily difficult (stupid French).  Beyond that I'm looking for work in London, Brussels, New York and D.C. (and one thing in Miami, for good measure).

I know that leaving your country isn't for everyone, and it definitely puts you outside your comfort zone.  But I sort of feel like I'm never really learning unless I'm a bit uncomfortable.  Obviously garwil has to look at the pros and cons to see if it's feasible, but if it is, it's a hell of an opportunity, not just to find a good job, but to find any job that will allow him to be completely immersed in a foreign culture.

[Ginsu Victim]

My wife and I are still out of work. (Since beginning of Dec)

Thinking we might take some classes.

[Mikezilla]

I agree. The US is a blast. 

The US is a blast.  But lest you think I'm just promoting my country it's worth mentioning that I am actively trying to leave.  My first choice for a job is in Paris and that's my primary destination for resumes.  I'm also working on getting a long-term work visa there, which is extraordinarily difficult (stupid French).  Beyond that I'm looking for work in London, Brussels, New York and D.C. (and one thing in Miami, for good measure).

I know that leaving your country isn't for everyone, and it definitely puts you outside your comfort zone.  But I sort of feel like I'm never really learning unless I'm a bit uncomfortable.  Obviously garwil has to look at the pros and cons to see if it's feasible, but if it is, it's a hell of an opportunity, not just to find a good job, but to find any job that will allow him to be completely immersed in a foreign culture.

Have you ever traveled out of the country for extensive periods of time Shmokes?

[shmokes]

I did a 3-month internship in Paris about a year and a half ago.  That was the most extensive. 

[Mikezilla]

Thats cool, I was just wondering. I was in Japan for about 6 months because my girlfriend got a job as an english teacher there, and I went with her for support. I love Japanese culture, but man, there is no place like home.

[ark_ader]

I agree. The US is a blast. 

The US is a blast.  But lest you think I'm just promoting my country it's worth mentioning that I am actively trying to leave.  My first choice for a job is in Paris and that's my primary destination for resumes.  I'm also working on getting a long-term work visa there, which is extraordinarily difficult (stupid French).  Beyond that I'm looking for work in London, Brussels, New York and D.C. (and one thing in Miami, for good measure).

I know that leaving your country isn't for everyone, and it definitely puts you outside your comfort zone.  But I sort of feel like I'm never really learning unless I'm a bit uncomfortable.  Obviously garwil has to look at the pros and cons to see if it's feasible, but if it is, it's a hell of an opportunity, not just to find a good job, but to find any job that will allow him to be completely immersed in a foreign culture.

Don't you have to take additional exams to practice law in a foreign country?  Are you thinking of supporting our troops with legal services in Europe?  Have you even looked at contracting overseas for the US government?  Lots of jobs here in the UK for unique legal services.  You could do three months in and one month out.  Lots of cheap flights from Florida to the UK.    Now I'm selling the UK.

[shmokes]

I want to practice international commercial arbitration, which is essentially commercial litigation where the companies on either side of the v. are from different nations.  For a number of practical reasons that I won't bore you with, regular courts are almost always a poor option for settling disputes between companies from different nations.  I technically need no legal qualifications at all to practice international arbitration.  Practically, I have to be barred somewhere because nobody would hire me otherwise.  But I don't need to take the Paris bar unless I plan to practice French law.  It just so happens that Paris is the (or one of the) international arbitration capitals in the world.  The International Chamber of Commerce is headquartered there. 

London is also big in international arbitration, but it seems to be a harder market to break into (despite language similarities) because all the law firms hire from 2-year traineeships that are a required part of legal education there.  I.e., the last two years of English legal training is essentially a 2-year internship that typically ends in a permanent job wherever you were a trainee.  Trying to break into a law firm fresh out of school with no substantial experience when I'm competing against kids who have spent the last two years at the firm is probably an exercise in futility.  After a couple years of experience I'm sure it's not hard to move laterally into a position into a London firm, but not right out of law school.

[shmokes]

Speaking of oil, as much as I love to see the revolutions all over the middle east, I'm not excited to see the effect skyrocketing oil prices are going to have on the world's already rickety economies.

[ark_ader]

Speaking of oil, as much as I love to see the revolutions all over the middle east, I'm not excited to see the effect skyrocketing oil prices are going to have on the world's already rickety economies.

Maybe it is time to look for a bike.  I'm lucky as I can walk to work, but an electric bicycle, is about as green as you can get.  They are not cheap but can help out on hills or first thing in the morning.

I don't know about Florida, but Las Vegas in the evening was nice weather for a ride to the supermarket.

[shmokes]

I'm not particularly concerned about the direct effect gas prices will have on my wallet at the pump.  I'm concerned about the effect they will have on the overall economy.  People who rely solely on public transit still have to deal with higher unemployment, higher food prices, higher airfare prices, higher shipping costs, higher product (of every kind) costs, higher utility bills, etc.

There is no aspect of the economy that isn't directly affected by a sharp spike in oil prices.

[Donkbaca]

yeah, but its not all negative.  I live in an oil producing region and high oil prices means the economy will do better here.  More oil field workers, and oilfield support which is a mix of skilled and unskilled labor.  More money in the local economy to spend.

Its just temporary though, it will all blow over by September.

[shmokes]

I don't care about your economy!  I need a job.   

[Donkbaca]

move out here to central california!

[shmokes]

No way . . . then I'd have to take another bar exam.  And taking the first one was like the worst thing that's ever happened to me.   

[Ginsu Victim]

My wife and I are still out of work. (Since beginning of Dec)

Thinking we might take some classes.

If you're dead set on Oklahoma, move to Oklahoma City or Tulsa.  Those cities are doing well.

I like small town life too much. I lived in Houston before moving here, and I don't miss it one bit.

[shmokes]

Yeah seriously, it's really unfair to the rest of the cities in the world to think of a Texas city as representative*.  Texas is miserable.






*Sorry Austin, it's not your fault.  You're actually pretty cool.

[ark_ader]

I don't care about your economy!  I need a job.   

Did your fellow graduates have the same problem? Did they find employment? 

Can you not take six months off and do some free intern work at a large organization, to get some experience?

I appreciate your situation, but there must be other avenues you can explore, with the skills you have.

[Dartful Dodger]

I appreciate your situation, but there must be other avenues you can explore, with the skills you have.

If you believe that then you don't appreciate his situation. 

The jobs that require the least skills (and pay) are the only jobs available.

I've got a good job, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it's secure.

My company just took over for a bigger company. I've been looking through their raw files and it's really basic stuff. I know the people that worked for that company were being paid twice as much has me, I can't believe they were getting paid so much for so little quality. It's opened my eyes. I'm not an elite programmer and there are lots of better programmers who have been out of work  for a while and they're pretty desperate right about now.

If I lost my job today, my best bet would be waiting tables and even then I'd have trouble getting hired.

[ark_ader]

I appreciate your situation, but there must be other avenues you can explore, with the skills you have.

If you believe that then you don't appreciate his situation. 

The jobs that require the least skills (and pay) are the only jobs available.

I've got a good job, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it's secure.

My company just took over for a bigger company. I've been looking through their raw files and it's really basic stuff. I know the people that worked for that company were being paid twice as much has me, I can't believe they were getting paid so much for so little quality. It's opened my eyes. I'm not an elite programmer and there are lots of better programmers who have been out of work  for a while and they're pretty desperate right about now.

If I lost my job today, my best bet would be waiting tables and even then I'd have trouble getting hired.

I would look at other avenues too.  The adult industry is booming so is the gaming sector.

I know it isn't ideal, but beggars cannot be choosers.

[Ginsu Victim]

Oklahoma City isn't nearly the same magnitude as Houston, dude.  Seriously.

I'm there all the time. I know it isn't even close.

Thing is, I live in a ONE TRAFFIC LIGHT town with a population of 1,516. Crazy enough, I actually like it.

I just do not like big (hell, medium sized) city life at all.

[shateredsoul]

I'm working on my phd and taking my sweet time.. hoping that the job market will be better when I finish. 

still...

-tuition is going up (i'm at a public uni in California)
-TA positions are going to get cut back (a lot of us get our funding from TAships, they pay our tuition and give us about 18k to live off for the year)
-Jobs in academia are scarce
-Some are trying to get rid of tenure
-I'm drowning in debt (accumulated before phd)
-I think the University of California system is looking at a 500 million dollar cut, maybe I should get out of here as soon as possible

on the upside

- I received a writing grant, that I'm still waiting on since about last June =(
- I got my traveling and hotel expenses covered to go to a conference thanks to the NIH grant I have and an NSF grant my adviser has
- I have a NIH grant that funds my Graduate Student Research position. It also covers my tuition and gives me $$ to live on (less than if I were a TA though) and gives me some money for future academic related costs
- doing some work on the side which pays more than I've ever made in my life, still not much but more than adequate fo rnow
- I might apply to a Microsoft internship to do work with them for a summer
- We have a grant writing class to encourage us to seek more funding
- I get free food for going to presentations and meetings sometimes

[Kevin Mullins]

Thing is, I live in a ONE TRAFFIC LIGHT town with a population of 1,516.

You guys have a stop light ?!? 
(yeah, we don't)

I live @30 miles outside of OKC and it's perfect for us. We're smack dab in the middle between Shawnee and OKC, so either direction is not too far for work, college, shopping, etc. But when I go home...it's the hell a way from the "city".

As for the "economy"..... not much has changed really, prices for everything goes up, wages stay the same, what's new about any of that? (aside from the rate hikes coming faster)
Seems like when companies feel the economic crunch their solution is to raise their prices for everything..... uh....that doesn't work out so well in the long run if people can't afford it to begin with.

[shateredsoul]

hmm you should start by helping that geoshot geo... whatever kid. The ps3 jailbreaker.

[ark_ader]

I'm working on my phd and taking my sweet time.. hoping that the job market will be better when I finish. 

If you are drowning in debt, do you think you should do something about it, or are you considering bankruptcy?

[shateredsoul]

Well, I'm married and don't know if I can. I know people, in my same field, who have about 30,0000 more than I do! So, that makes me feel a little better about it.

Honestly, I have considered that option, but since I'm married I don't know how that works. I think my wife and I put together make a pretty ok income and would not be allowed to declare bankruptcy. The thing is that I really don't have the means to pay off any of the debt right now, we split the bills pretty evenly so that leaves me with not very much each month.

The amount of years it will take me to pay my debt back really depends on whether i go into academia or industry after graduating. Academic jobs start at about 50k to 60k (that isn't much for people living in California). From what I hear in Industry you at least start with 60k and I've talked to a research director in an industry job who told me that she makes more than most professors at my University plus she doesn't have to worry about teaching (she still gets to decide the direction of her research too!).

[shmokes]

If any of your debt is student loans, just remember that those debts survive bankruptcy.  Also, i hesitate to recommend bankruptcy, but it really is a tool that does a lot of good and is good for our economy.  If you think you might resort to it, go talk to some lawyers.  And I can't stress enough the plural there.  Talk to at least three.  It will be free.  All bankruptcy lawyers give free consultations.  A lot will recommend it just so they make some money, though, so be careful and pay attention and ask questions.

[shateredsoul]

If any of your debt is student loans, just remember that those debts survive bankruptcy.  Also, i hesitate to recommend bankruptcy, but it really is a tool that does a lot of good and is good for our economy.  If you think you might resort to it, go talk to some lawyers.  And I can't stress enough the plural there.  Talk to at least three.  It will be free.  All bankruptcy lawyers give free consultations.  A lot will recommend it just so they make some money, though, so be careful and pay attention and ask questions.

oh yeah? then It's probably not an option then, it's all due to student loans. I think it's manageable, and I figure it was an investment in my future.. there's worse things I could be in debt for. I never was really serious about that, and especially now that I know education loans survive. It would have been nice if Obama had helped students out a bit more instead of the banks. Oh well.

Thanks for the info.

[boykster]

Dude, we need to talk.  Cut your starting figures in half and forget all that "decide the direction" nonsense and you'll be approaching reality.

You do realize you're going to need to do 4-7 years of post doc, right?  And if you want to be taken seriously, those years need to span at least 2 different institutions ideally in two different states.  You'll also be making less than technicians.  Oh, and now they're expecting all the industry PhDs to go get an MBA.

Academia?  You're staring at the worst funding situation in modern history.  Best of luck unless you're a bomb or a bank.

At the end of the process, it's a soft touch comfortable life, but they're going to make damn sure you play the game before you get there.

I agree with some of what you're saying, and disagree with quite a bit of it.  It really depends on what field the Ph.D. is in though.  Cutting starting figures in 1/2 depends on the state and field.  We hire fresh Ph.D's for industry post-doc positions in the 50k salary range (biotech) in the seattle area.  A Ph.D. with a full post-doc resume but no industry experience might get 5-10k more than that to start.  Starting techs make less than that (40-50k) but their ramp is much less steep.

As for industry expecting PhD's to get MBA's, that's a load of bunk.  We turn away MBA/PhD's for research/development positions - marketing or sales, sure, then it's an asset.  As for cred being based on 4-7 years + multiple institutions?  Yes, that's true.  Academic funding being bad?  Yes, absolutely - its a big crunch now and institutions are scrambling to keep positions funded and are shuffling a ton of staff to 'soft money' funded positions - essentially 100% grant funded spots that are crap, low paying, and no stability.

And as for directing your own research - nope - not going to happen unless you're a fast track Nobel candidate or land a monster grant that aligns with your research.  Eventually you might, but any research director in industry that says they truly control their research focus is lying to themselves as much as to you - industry marches to the beat of profit and marketable products. 

Not trying to kill your dream - just some info from someone who's been in industry in biotech for 15years and is a director of a department....

[shateredsoul]

well maybe i shouldn't call it industry.. but not sure what to call it

She works at a research institute that tries to get more women into computer science careers, she applies for her own funding and the institute takes 30% overhead (less than what a university takes). I'm not sure, but I think it's the sort of position where you apply to grants to pay yourself. There's a few of these around that focus on education as well.

Alternatively, I've heard that a graduate from our program that's directing a nonprofit's research program in Oakland to decide what medical needs people in the community have and how to create programs that will be used by community members.

Now, I'm sure if I worked for Microsoft I'd probably have no choice, unless they wanted to use my area of expertise (crosscultural research) to develop some way of improving their customer service in India for US callers. Dunno 

They also are hiring our type (social scientists) in the military now a days, but I'm not as interested in that.

The other option is going for that 50k job, but moving to a place where that's income can get a better lifestyle than California. A lot of jobs in academia are in the midwest nowadays.. so who knows.