Another Clone-related question...

[scottjen26]

I've been getting up to speed over the past few weeks on the latest mame files, front ends, etc. as I'm looking to finish my cabinet.  I found several utilities that parse through games, remove mature or other categories of games, etc.  My ultimate goal is to have a front end displaying a unique list of games instead of every other game having 3 - 10 versions displayed with US, JAPAN, BOOTLEG, etc. in the title.

I know I can filter the clones out, either by manually moving them to another directory via batch files or generating a unique XML for various front ends.  My question - similar to the Pacman/Puckman type situation where the parent doesn't work and the clone does, is there a list somewhere of games like that that will need to be added back in to my list?  Also, is there a list somewhere that might mention, at least for more popular games, any specific clones that might be worth keeping on my menu?  Maybe where there is worthwhile functionality or graphic differences etc.

For instance, I've been playing 1942 (3 versions) and Klax (7 - 10 versions).  I always pick the original to play and in my current front end have to squint at the descriptions to see the parent and it takes a few seconds to pick the right one out.  But what if one of the clones is actually better somehow?  I'm hoping since I'm having these questions after a few weeks of playing around with my cabinet, some other equally OCD person has scrubbed their list of ROMs and has some direction for me.  Maybe I can deal with just ridding myself of clones, adding back in the necessary clones, and having one US or World based version of the game in the list and just never know what I might be missing in the world of clones... 

Thanks,
Scott

[cdbrown]

As part of the process of updating my attract vids I test all the parents to see if they work.  Where it doesn't I check MAWS and see what's said their.  Generally it will tell you if the clone is working or not.  So far I've only come across 2 games where the clone was working aceattac (clone aceattaca) and gigas (clone gigasb).  That's for all parents #-H that have been checked so far.

[nitz]

My question - similar to the Pacman/Puckman type situation where the parent doesn't work and the clone does, is there a list somewhere of games like that that will need to be added back in to my list?  Also, is there a list somewhere that might mention, at least for more popular games, any specific clones that might be worth keeping on my menu?  Maybe where there is worthwhile functionality or graphic differences etc.

I recommend downloading MameUI and looking at the complete gamelist with the clones offset from the parents. It should be fairly quick to breeze through and see if any clones catch your eye as something you should hang on to.

Probably in 90% of cases or more, you're not gonna need the clones. You're not gonna be missing out on anything. Most clones are either earlier (almost always inferior) revisions, from an alternate region (usually nothing different in the actual gameplay or graphics), or bootlegs (inferior or nearly identical versions).

Having said that, there are some cases where you may want the clone such as:

The clone is the game you remember (eg. Puckman vs. Pacman)

The clone offers some feature or cheat that you want (eg. speedup hack versions of Pacman games, 2 player version of a 4 player game)

The clone is playable when the parent is not (pretty rare)

The clone is actually a fairly unique game (very rare, the only example I can think of is the recently added Donkey Kong II)

Hope this helps.

[Donkbaca]

Yup, all the street fighter hacks for example!  I remember those in the arcade, where you could press the start button and switch characters and had heat seeking fireballs and stuff!

[scottjen26]

Thanks guys for the replies!  I have a feeling some of this will come down to some manual work to verify names, artwork, etc. for the games, but I can probably batch a lot of it and just deal with exceptions as I find them.  Make me feel better that the clones that are necessary or that I might want to have are exceptions as opposed to hundreds that I might be missing out on.

Scott

[scottjen26]

Thanks again for the suggestions.  Being the OCD person that I am, I spent the time this weekend to go through the entire list of working Mame roms (all 7600 of them) - several times actually as I forgot to do some things the first time around - so hoping my work might pay off for some others looking for this same information.

After I got over just how many versions of mahjong, tetris, japanese baseball games, and even volleyball games that there actually are, I compiled what I think is a thorough list of decent clones.  As nitz said previously, these are clones where the clone is the original game (Puckman/Pacman), the clone has extra features or levels like speedup or control hacks, 2p vs 4p, etc., the clone is playable and the parent is not, or the clone is actually a different game altogether that relies on the parent roms.

37 clones in all, whether you want to include them or not is up to you, I added the information you need to decide like game, parent/clone name, and notes.  For me, I plan on excluding all clones on my menu but adding in maybe 20 of these for various reasons, will really simplify my selection menu.

Enjoy!
Scott

[TopJimmyCooks]

@scottjen26:

Thanks for doing this and posting it.  I had the same question and got through about the D's before giving out. 

[scottjen26]

Just wanted to post an updated list.  Updates were made based on some further research and tips I got from various responses I received on another forum.  Also changed to maintaining the list in a text file so I could paste it directly in the post.

Thanks!
Scott

Code: [Select]

Game Parent Clone Notes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ace Attack ace (orig game) aceattack Actually a Volleyball game, clone of Ace Attacker? (no parent)
Ajax ajax typhoon This version has a different stage order and possible additional level
Bad Dudes vs. Dragonninja baddudes drgninja Japanese version has different background music and different ending
Cabal cabal cabalus Trackball version
Captain America Avengers captaven captavenu US version, not really that different
Combat School combatsc combatsct    Trackball version
Cyberball cyberbal cyberbal2p    2 player version
D. D. Crew ddcrew ddcrew2 2 player version
Defend the Terra Attack redufo exodus    Slightly improved graphics
DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou ddp3 ddp3blk Black label edition is more playable and allows continues
Donkey Kong II dkong dkongx11 Donkey Kong 2 hack, new levels etc
Eliminator (4 players) elim2 elim4 4 player mode, only 4 player vector game ever made
Galaga galaga galagamf  Fast shoot
Gauntlet II gaunt2 gaunt22p  2 player version
Gauntlet gauntlet gauntlet2p  2 player version
Gigas gigandes gigasb    Actually a breakout game, clone of gigas? (not listed as parent)
Golden Tee 2000 Tournament gt2k (regular) gt2kt500 Tourney edition, changes?
Ikari III - The Rescue ikari3 ikari3nr    Joystick hack
Ikari Warriors ikari ikarijpb    Joystick hack
Joust joust joustr    Pterodactyl scoring bug
King of Fighters 2005 Anniv kof2002 kf2k5uni Anniversary edition, changed graphics, music, characters
Land Maker landmakr landmakrp English translation
Main Event mainevt mainevt2p  2 player version
Major Havoc mhavoc mhavocrv Return to Vax hack, easier then original, extra levels, minor play changes
Marvel Vs. Capcom: COSH mvsc mvscj Japanese version gives you an extra character
Ms. Pac Man mspacman mspacmnf    Speedup hack
NBA Maximum Hangtime nbahangt nbamht1 Updated roster, minor play changes
Night Slasher nslasher nslasherj Japanese version is uncensored - red blood and some different and extended scenes
Pacman puckman pacman Original pacman game
Pacman puckman pacmanf  Speedup hack
Peggle peggle pegglet    Trackball version
Pirate Pete junglek piratpet Pirate-based version of Jungle Hunt
Qix II Tournament qix qix2 Enhanced version with different colors and bonus features
Rampart rampart rampart2p    Joystick version
Robocop 2 robocop2 robocop2j Japanese version has extra playable into level and extra scene at the end
Salamander (Lifeforce) salamand lifefrcej Enhanced US version (lifefrce) and listed Japanese version have new graphics and improved gameplay
Shadow Warriors (Ninja Gaiden) shadoww gaiden US (gaiden) and Japan (ryukendn) versions have different music and fighting/difficulty diffs
Simpsons simpsons simpsons2p    2 player version
Snow Bros. 3 - Magical  Adv snowbros snowbros3 Third in the series, seems to be a clone of the first game
Sunset Riders ssriders ssridersubc    2 player version
Super Bubble Bobble bublbobl sboblboa Super Bubble Bobble, minor changes
Street Fighter II: Hyper Fight sf2hf sf2hfj Turbo version incorporates unofficial hacks and is supposed to be the best in the series
Tempest Tubes tempest temptube    Version of Tempest with different shapes
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles tmnt tmnt2po    2 player version
Undercover Cops uccops uccopsar Alpha Renewal version has better graphics and additional character moves
Vendetta vendetta vendetta2p    2 player version.  Also Asian versions have bikers and dogs that grab, hump, and lick the player...
Zerowing zerowing zerowing2    2 player version instead of 1


[NOP]

I think I'd add Crazy Kong to your list.  IIRC, that's the bootleg of DK, but the level order has been slightly changed so that the rivet stage is the last of the 4.  This always made a little more sense in that after you pull the rivets out and DK falls, then it starts over with harder levels.

[Haze]

no idea why you list Ace Attacker and Gigas, MAME doesn't even list them as clones of the sets you mention, they're entirely separate entities.

Super Bubble Bobble is a crappy bootleg of Bubble Bobble where the enemy movements etc. aren't even quite right, not sure why you'd want to run it.

In most cases you should be looking to Japan sets of games for the most significant changes as they're (in most cases) the native versions, and the US / World ports are stripped down, lacking features, cutscenes etc. (to simplify the gameplay, or because they were never localized)  This often leaves the World / US versions unbalanced or incomplete.   There has actually been a fair bit of talk about making the Japan versions the parents for this reason (and because they're the native versions, so Jpn made games would have the Jpn set as parent USA made games, the USA set etc.)

There are plenty of others too you fail to list buggyboyjr is better than buggyboy for standard PC use, because it's the single screen version.  The New Zealand story clones have different level arrangements.  V-Five has a much better powerup system than Grind Stormer.  The prototype version of Trog is well documented as being a completely different style of game to the final 'pacman' style release.  The berzerk sets have well documented differing enemy progression, which changes the approach you take to playing it significantly.  sarukani is a perfect example of where a game has been destroyed in localization, the parent (vblokbrk) is lacking most of the charm, and the crazy crazy attract song.

Your list really doesn't scratch the surface ;-)

[Donkbaca]

I think this should be stickied.  It could use some additions probably, but hey that's not a bad list so far!

[TopJimmyCooks]

I second Donkbaca on this.  ScottJen26 has a good idea in picking out the "greatest hits" of the clones for a specific purpose.  If you haven't had years of time to spend with the Mame canon, it's good to have a quick guide to filter some of the background noise but not miss something with basic appeal.  Certainly keep all the sets so that when, later, I'm exploring the JDM originals and appreciating them they'll be there.  I'm new and I still spend 75% of my time on the classics and less time exploring for the rare and different.

Is it itunes that has genre pick lists that are divided up into essentials, next steps and deep cuts?  I'm not ready for deep cuts yet. 

[rCadeGaming]

Ok, I hope nobody gets pissed for reviving this but I agree it should be stickied, and I found a great example of huge changes between clones.  This game seems to be a rarely mentioned gem as well:

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/konamishooters/konamishooters4.htm

Perhaps the pride and joy of Konami's shooter lineup, XEXEX is so mind bogglingly gorgeous that it's incredible that it was released way back in 1991. Each of the game's seven stages are gorgeously detailed, with a unique theme and incredible technical effects to go along with it.

...

Of course, in keeping with the R-Type/Gradius tradition, XEXEX is incredibly difficult. In the Japanese version, the Flintlock can only take a single hit before dying, sending you back to the most recent checkpoint. After dying, your shattered ship reassembles into a single whole and begins a new life, which is a throwaway effect that looks remarkably cool. The difficulty ramps up by the third stage, and doesn't let up all the way to the end, making it particularly brutal, especially since there aren't any shield power-ups, or anything absorb enemy bullets.

The World version, however, switches things up quite a bit. You only have a single life, but the Flintlock can take multiple hits, indicated by an energy bar at the top of the screen. When it runs out, the ship explodes, and you need to continue, but you'll resurrect right where you left off. In other words, the checkpoint system is completely gone. This might seem like it would make things less frustrating - and it does - but they also hacked out almost the entire weapon system. You only get the standard laser, which can be upgraded a few levels, and homing missiles, and that's it. Furthermore, the rapid fire functionality is completely gone, making many of the bosses a total chore. It might be worth mucking around the World version if you can't beat the Japanese one, but it's clearly the inferior game. The World version also features text in English - although the voiceovers are still in Japanese - and actual titles for the levels. In the Japanese version, each level just begins with the text "CHARGE THE ENEMY".