S-video

[orchidius]

Are there any disadvantages in using S-video from your grafx card with 15khz output to a regular CRT TV? Would the image fit? Would the lettering and all be good? Contrast?

Thnx!!

[orchidius]

Nobody? I hear it quite often on the board, but couldn't find any real info about the topic...

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

the disadvantages is that it is not the best possible image on a CRT. However if that's all you have then it's much better than using coaxial RF or composite. The next step up would be using component connections.

Running 15kHz to a regular TV seems to only really be possible via a european Scart connector. All the various methods on other television involve some sort of modulation scheme which degrades the image.

[orchidius]

So 15khz is not enough if I want to use S-video? What else do I need then? Do I need to delete it? I'm in Europe, but I'm having some issues with the SCART setup (the image doesn't fit in the tv vertically).

[ahofle]

S-Video converts everything to NTSC (or PAL in your case), so it doesn't really buy you much.  It would be easier to just force your games to roughly the same resolution as PAL (576 lines or so I believe?) or best, use the SCART port.

[orchidius]

So you're suggesting to resize my games to fit my tv-screen with the SCART-VGA cable and thus solving the issue I'm having with it right now? How do I do that? Do I have to adjust every single game individually (all 10000+? :s), or can I just resize all output from the pc to the right size?

Thnx a bunch for the info so far guys!

[MonMotha]

The issue isn't S-Video, per se, but all the scalers that are placed in the output chain for the s-video output on PC video cards.  Those outputs are intended to convert standard "desktop" resolutions to "something that can be displayed on a TV".  Many won't even accept native TV timings and will shut down (though I hear the newer ones are better about this) if you force the card into such a mode!  In general, consider the S-Video output on a PC useless in terms of "native" video output from arcade/console emulators.  Even TV compatible timings will probably be re-scaled prior to output, if they're supported at all.

However, I've had very good luck using outboard "RGB to S-Video" converters.  Run your PC with native standard res timings however you wish (Soft15k, ArcadeVGA, etc.), hook the RGB (aka "VGA") output up to the converter, then plug that in to your TV.  This removes all the scalers.  With a quality TV, the results are usually VERY good.  My tests with a Sony WEGA showed quality nearly indistinguishable from a quality arcade monitor except in side-by-side comparisons (edges were slightly softer), though overscan had to be adjusted in service mode for proper monitor use, as would be expected.  Your mileage may vary depending on how good the S-Video input on your TV is.  If your TV supports 525 line (60Hz refresh) inputs in PAL mode, that will give slightly higher quality than using NTSC mode.

Now, composite will always look blah, but S-Video doesn't have to.  For best results, disengage all the filters on your TV: set sharpness to neutral, ensure saturation is correct (it's often too high since it makes colors more "vivid" to people), and ensure brightness/contrast are correct.

Some have also had good luck with the built-in YPbPr component outputs found on some PC video cards.  Apparently these outputs can be configured to not use scalers.  Some of these cards also support S-Video output via the "TV" output and may not require scaling for such outputs when supplied TV compatible timings.

[orchidius]

Wow MonMotha, quite the eyeopener there! But again you would have to adjust overscan (the fact that the image doesn't fit in the screen vertically or horizontally?) in service mode? That's the main issue I'm having right now with my VGA/SCART cable. Other then that it workes just fine, but the image just won't fit! Maybe the fix to my problem is easier then I thought?

[MonMotha]

You will always get overscan if natively displaying video on a TV.  TVs are normally quite overscanned so that normal TV users don't ever see black bars at the edges of normal TV content, but of course this behavior isn't desirable in a monitor application.  You can usually adjust this stuff in service mode, but some (especially older) TVs have pots that you have to adjust inside of it.

[orchidius]

Well, I don't know what model my TV is... All I know is that it's a Philips, built between 1998 and 2002 if I had to guess. I've been looking around, and it seems you need the exact model n° in order to get into the service menu :s. Maybe the pots are a solution for me?

[MonMotha]

Usually TVs either have geometry that's configurable via service mode or settable in hardware via pots inside the TV, not both.

[orchidius]

So basically, I'm screwed with my current tv? 

[MonMotha]

Where did I say that?  In order to adjust geometry on ANY TV, you'll need information about it.  You'll either need to get into service mode (usually some strange combination of buttons) or adjust (often unlabeled and oddly placed) knobs inside the TV.  In any case, this will require knowing the model # of your TV and getting some information on it.  Nothing special about this particular TV.

There should be a model number on the back of the set.  Failing that, you may find some nomenclature on the inside of the TV if you tear the back cover off.  Just be careful in there - standard CRT monitor precautions apply.  Getting information as to how to set the geometry usually involves a fair bit of google-fu or making friends with a TV repairman.

You may try just searching for "Philips TV service mode".  Some manufacturers have only used a few methods to enter service mode for their entire lineups since digital settings were introduced.  If you do figure it out, be careful in service mode.  You can sometimes physically damage the set, and there's usually no way to "restore" settings.

If your intent is to "just make it work", hook that S-Video connection up to your existing TV, set your PC to 800x600 or 1024x768, set MAME (or whatever to scale), and adjust the "overscan" setting in your drivers to crush the image down to fit on your TV.  It won't look great, but it'll work, and it's easy.

[apfelanni]

i ve never encountered a philips tv without a model name on the backside label.  i wonder what sort of problem it could be 2 check it out and post it here.