Super mario all stars for (US) wii in limited numbers?

[rlemmon]

So now that everone knows we in America will be having the super Mario allstars 25 anniversary edition for wii in December I have a question.

It is being released in "limited" numbers. Does that mean it will be sold out everwere in a hurry and on eBay for big bucks? What do ya think. I pre-ordered on copy for myself. Maybe I should get a few. Thanks

[Ginsu Victim]

So now that everone knows we in America will be having the super Mario allstars 25 anniversary edition for wii in December

Really? I didn't know that. This is the first I've heard it.

[DaveMMR]

Looks cool but I looked and it's just a rerelease of the SNES version.        Although it does come with a soundtrack CD and book and is cheap ($30), so I may have to still pick it up. 

[Ginsu Victim]

Looks cool but I looked and it's just a rerelease of the SNES version.

Yeah, same here. I already have it on my Wii as a VC game (injected wad), plus I still have the cart (the version with SMW).

[Howard_Casto]

Looks cool but I looked and it's just a rerelease of the SNES version.        Although it does come with a soundtrack CD and book and is cheap ($30), so I may have to still pick it up. 

I'm much more interested in the art book than anything else.  Besides art officially released for game promotion (and there's a TON of that), mario game artwork is suprisingly rare.

[lilshawn]

i haven't downloaded the Japanese version weeks ago, and i am not missing anything since i didn't. really? if I burned it onto a CD I would feel ripped off.

i mean it's not even the SM allstars with the SM world added in that you could get for a time with the SNES bundle.

i enjoyed SM world more than the others.

[DaveMMR]

I may or may not be downloading it as we speak to play on my mostly-certain-it-might-not-be-modified-to-play-copies-of-games. wii.

i haven't downloaded the Japanese version weeks ago, and i am not missing anything since i didn't. really? if I burned it onto a CD I would feel ripped off.

Do as you please (not throwing stones), but you should probably stop announcing you pirate Wii software.   People mod their Wiis to backup legal software, doncha know.  

But the only thing you're really missing is the point of this package.  It's just the same old Super Mario All-Stars (not the subsequent pack-in version with "World") but with bonus materials.  If you just wanted to play the games, just fire up your SNES or emulator.   This is more for the collectability than it is for the games.

[lilshawn]

i may or may not be guilty of doing these things, nor should most people be able to, but should anyone feel so inclined, they could right?

I'm not saying it's right or it's bad, but given the quaity of most of the games being released right now, i would feel ripped off buying a hyped up game, only to find i hate it in the first 30 mins of play, take it to the gamestop or wherever, and getting half to 1/4 it's value on trade in for some other lousy game.

if i was able, i could try them and find out that none of the games I played so far merit play until the end of the game.

perhaps i have just bought the wrong system, I've played the old school xbox i bought at a garage sale for $20 more in the last 3 months than the wii this whole year. 

[Malenko]

if i was able, i could try them and find out that none of the games I played so far merit play until the end of the game.

You mean like renting or gamefly?

no wink wink nudge nudge BS and no open talk of piracy is allowed on these boards.

[lilshawn]

yah, i'm not getting into the legality of piracy here, as far as i'm concerned it's too grey to be able to definitively choose sides with certain things being legal, and others not.

i'm just saying companies aren't putting the effort into games that they used to. they are worried more about releasing the 10th sequel this year instead of putting in effort to make games really good.  They get a game mediocre, and then they ship it... worry about fixing plot holes and the like in the next game. it's been quantity over quality for too long. Maybe they need to bring back demos in games like back in the PS1 days... yes i know the OTHER systems have demos... like i said, maybe i bought the wrong system. okay NINTENDO needs to bring out a demo system.

[DaveMMR]

yah, i'm not getting into the legality of piracy here, as far as i'm concerned it's too grey to be able to definitively choose sides with certain things being legal, and others not.

i'm just saying companies aren't putting the effort into games that they used to. they are worried more about releasing the 10th sequel this year instead of putting in effort to make games really good.  They get a game mediocre, and then they ship it... worry about fixing plot holes and the like in the next game. it's been quantity over quality for too long. Maybe they need to bring back demos in games like back in the PS1 days... yes i know the OTHER systems have demos... like i said, maybe i bought the wrong system. okay NINTENDO needs to bring out a demo system.

Grey?  No, piracy is illegal.  You can justify it all you want but it's a fact, not a debate.  

I'm not really out to lecture anyone.  I threw in that little "wink wink" because I'm fully aware that where there's discussion about console modification on these boards, I'm sure there's some piracy afoot*.  But no one discusses it and threads don't get deleted.  

[*P.S.: I could be wrong.  Maybe there are people who modify their Wii's solely to play backups of legally owned games and homebrew software.  Whatever, it's your business.]

But just do yourself a favor and stop pretending that you're doing it because you don't like the games anyhow.  I don't like asparagus, does that mean it's okay for me to stick some under my shirt when I go to the grocery store?  Just be honest to yourself: you don't want to pay for the game.   Don't brag to the boards about being a cheapskate.  

BTW: Lest you think I am without sin casting the first stone, know that my childhood is now condensed into three boxes of cracked Commodore 64 software sitting in the corner of my room, plus a handful of games on my hard drive I never paid for (not even counting MAME).   Many of us have pirated in one form or another; we just don't  work it into everyday conversation.

[lilshawn]

the "don't copy that floppy" PSA instantly came to my mind when you said that. 

I know I don't like asparagus, therefore I don't buy it. I don't know if i like a game until I play it. i guess i'm supposed to trust those trolls on the videogame websites who say that a game is "epic" and "pwns all other games" no thanks. I'd rather make that decision for myself.

Just be honest to yourself: you don't want to pay for the game.   Don't brag to the boards about being a cheapskate.

no i'm not going to pay for a crappy game, i'm not being cheap about it. I would rather a terrible video game writer go hungry and starving, then, put some serious effort into making something worth plunking 70 doubloons on so he can buy bread for now on. If i made crap, i wouldn't expect people to pay me for it. I would be motivated to make something worthy of some one buying off of me. like i said, perhaps i have bought the wrong console, nintendo doesn't demo any of their games.

Grey?  No, piracy is illegal.  You can justify it all you want but it's a fact, not a debate.

the copyright in Canada is seriously flawed, and even the steps to fix it in the near future (c-32) are only going to make it worse. i'm not choosing sides but yes, it's grey, there is serious holes they are trying to fix, but it seems they are going to open several more by fixing it.

Maybe there are people who modify their Wii's solely to play backups of legally owned games and homebrew software

ya, i don't understand the thinking behind what is considered legal and what isn't, because aparently it's illegal to sell a mod chip, but it's not illegal to posess one, but to operate one may or may not be illegal (depending on if it uses intelectual property to crack a code to obtain the desired results) it's not illegal to download the games/movies/music/software under certain conditions, but being a distributer (P2P share seed) is if you advertize it's available but isn't if you don't?!?!  but writing it to a disk that had a copy levy paid on it makes it legal? it's illegal to copy the game if there is a copy protection measure in place that requires circumvention to copy.

i mean it's kinda isn't and it kinda is depending on what way you look at it. i know if i was the head at M$ and struggling to make ends meet because of software piracy, i'd be a little miffed, but no one puts it better than the man himself...

As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.
—Bill Gates

thanks william, can i have a free copy of windows now?

[DaveMMR]

So if you download five games, and you enjoyed three of them, you go out and immediately buy them?  What if you finished a game that you downloaded and you have fun beating it?  Is there still any incentive to buy it? That's why I'm saying the whole "I pirate because too many games suck" rationale is a little weak.

There are numerous ways to try games before buying them.  Join Gamefly (as Malenko pointed out), check out in-store demos, read reviews on Metacritic (from real reviewers, not users).

Whatever, doesn't matter ultimately.  I'm just saying you should keep these things under your hat. 

[lilshawn]

*puts on hat* *tuns it sideways*

but yes, if i do enjoy a game i do go buy it. just the same as if I rent a game (which in itself is somewhat illegal as the EUA states that rental is prohibited) and I enjoy it enough to warrant multiple plays, I would buy it.

Yes I know the rental companies SAY they pay fees to some omniscient being to be able to rent them, but in this day and age, i'm suspect of everyone.

I know further discussion warrants moving to P&R, so we will just leave it at that

*realizes how stupid wearing a hat sideways makes you look like a --cream-filled twinkie--, and turns it straight*

[WhereEaglesDare]

look 30 bucks for a 8 dollar game is not a good deal and I dont care how many books they pack with it.  If I read books I wouldn't play so many video games.

[severdhed]

i preordered it.  I never got around to picking it up for the snes, and honestly i dont have the space to have my snes connected all the time anyway.  i do have the rom on a snes emulator on my modded xbox, which is how i normally play classics, but the wii classic controller is closer in feel to the snes gamepad than the xbox controller.  (xbox controller kills me for snes games because A/B and X/Y are reversed).  i think $30 is a decent price for 4 games that are really good. (well at least 3 of them, i was never much of a fan of the lost levels). personally,i wish they would have put super mario world and yoshi's island on there as well.  (or at least release yoshi's island for the virtual console. 

[WhereEaglesDare]

Yea Yoshi's Island is totally under rated.

[Howard_Casto]

The lost levels is indeed crap.  Anyone who thinks that the US got screwed with our version of smb2 is high on something. 

The original super mario bros had very clean, timeless tilesets.  It's one of the reason that it's asthetics still hold up today.  In smb 2 they tried to "enhance" the tilesets, but it actually made them look busy and muddy.  The only addition to the game was a power down (posion mushroom) and harder levels.  In other words it was the 1986 equivelent of an expansion pack. 

Since smb2, every single super mario bros game has had a new engine, new gameplay mechanics and a new art direction (with the exception of galaxy 2, which worries me a bit if this is the trend) and that is why the smb franchise is so successful.  In other words, the Japanese smb2 was one of the few mistakes nintendo made. 

[DaveMMR]

In other words, the Japanese smb2 was one of the few mistakes nintendo made. 

The few mistakes that Nintendo of JAPAN made.   Nintendo of America made the right decision going with a totally different game and not releasing SMB2 (Japanese version) in America.     

But if we're counting these mistakes:  Virtual Boy, cartridges for N64, unfair licensing for the NES, censoring Mortal Kombat for the SNES... and that's all I can think of right now.   So yup, it is only a "few".

[lilshawn]

censoring Mortal Kombat for the SNES

They did kinda redeemed themselves with "Conker's Bad Fur Day" later on though...

[DaveMMR]

censoring Mortal Kombat for the SNES

They did kinda redeemed themselves with "Conker's Bad Fur Day" later on though...

They redeemed themselves long before that with their Mortal Kombat II port. 

[lilshawn]

censoring Mortal Kombat for the SNES

They did kinda redeemed themselves with "Conker's Bad Fur Day" later on though...

They redeemed themselves long before that with their Mortal Kombat II port. 

in MK1 there was a game genie code to turn the "sweat" to red, though still no fatalities.

[DaveMMR]

censoring Mortal Kombat for the SNES

They did kinda redeemed themselves with "Conker's Bad Fur Day" later on though...

They redeemed themselves long before that with their Mortal Kombat II port. 

in MK1 there was a game genie code to turn the "sweat" to red, though still no fatalities.

Yeah, I saw that in EGM back in the day.   Seemed pointless - you can get the same effect with rose tinted glasses.    Most of us just played the Genesis version with the blood code instead: A, B, A, C, A, B, B.         

But it was a blessing, Nintendo was accused of going too far with censoring (even by parents) and their sales tanked compared to the Gen/MD version so MKII was arcade accurate and, well it was a better game than MKI in general anyhow.

[Howard_Casto]

But if we're counting these mistakes:  Virtual Boy, cartridges for N64, unfair licensing for the NES, censoring Mortal Kombat for the SNES... and that's all I can think of right now.   So yup, it is only a "few".

I hate to go on a rant but....

Virtual Boy... not a mistake in concept (see the 3ds) it will admit that the end product and release date were a mistake.  In other words the idea was too far ahead of it's time and the tech wasn't ready yet.

Cartridges for the n64....  DEFINATELY not a mistake.  Consoles at the time weren't ready for disc drives.  They were horribly slow and aside from extra storage (used almost exclusively on other consoles for lame, fmv cut-scenes) had no real benefit.  For the best example see the superior in every way n64 version of mk trilogy vs the crappy, slow loading... shang tsung can't morph into all the characters, tinny sounding versions on the other systems.


Censoring MK... well it's easy to call it a mistake when you are a kid and wanted to play mk in all it's glory (guilty as charged) but looking back I can see the logic behind their decision.  At the time console games WERE primarily for kids and MK I caused a lot of controversy.  Also remember that this pre-dates the esrb ratings system,  Nintendo was just covering themselves legally.  The esrb was in place by the time mk ii came out and it, as well as all the other sequels were fully uncensored.  (Btw, the genesis ports of mk games were terrible, with a low color pallette and inferior sound and controls even with censoring the nintendo version was better.)

[WhereEaglesDare]

(Btw, the genesis ports of mk games were terrible, with a low color pallette and inferior sound and controls even with censoring the nintendo version was better.)

Lies

[ChadTower]

Virtual Boy... not a mistake in concept (see the 3ds) it will admit that the end product and release date were a mistake.  In other words the idea was too far ahead of it's time and the tech wasn't ready yet.

Cartridges for the n64....  DEFINATELY not a mistake.  Consoles at the time weren't ready for disc drives.  They were horribly slow and aside from extra storage (used almost exclusively on other consoles for lame, fmv cut-scenes) had no real benefit.  For the best example see the superior in every way n64 version of mk trilogy vs the crappy, slow loading... shang tsung can't morph into all the characters, tinny sounding versions on the other systems.

I agree with both of those.  The VB is a fun system that could have been so much more with a little software support.  Maybe it was too far ahead of its time for its own good.

The only disadvantage the cartridges on N64 had was cost.  Everything else was advantage Nintendo.

[WhereEaglesDare]

Virtual Boy... not a mistake in concept (see the 3ds) it will admit that the end product and release date were a mistake.  In other words the idea was too far ahead of it's time and the tech wasn't ready yet.

Cartridges for the n64....  DEFINATELY not a mistake.  Consoles at the time weren't ready for disc drives.  They were horribly slow and aside from extra storage (used almost exclusively on other consoles for lame, fmv cut-scenes) had no real benefit.  For the best example see the superior in every way n64 version of mk trilogy vs the crappy, slow loading... shang tsung can't morph into all the characters, tinny sounding versions on the other systems.

I agree with both of those.  The VB is a fun system that could have been so much more with a little software support.  Maybe it was too far ahead of its time for its own good.

The only disadvantage the cartridges on N64 had was cost.  Everything else was advantage Nintendo.

Plus all Nintendo consoles are blatantly markets for children, discs wouldnt last, carts do, plus carts have copy protection built into the cart...   You didnt see too many playing burned games on the N64...

[RandyT]

I hate to go on a rant but....

No you don't

Virtual Boy... not a mistake in concept (see the 3ds) it will admit that the end product and release date were a mistake.  In other words the idea was too far ahead of it's time and the tech wasn't ready yet.

That kind of makes it a "mistake in concept".  And the idea wasn't "ahead of it's time".  Similar tech for 3D was used all over the place, even before the VB.  Vectrex, SMS, PC video cards, military sims, etc...  They just tried to do it as cheaply as possible, and the results were not attractive to consumers at the price they needed to set.  Their "vision" for the product was flawed.  Considering that the 3D methodology of the 3DS reportedly has a fairly narrow field of view and it's on a handheld device which the controller is part of, which will undoubtedly have gamers struggling to keep it in the right place for the effect to be displayed properly, they may just find themselves in a similar situation with that one.

Cartridges for the n64....  DEFINATELY not a mistake.  Consoles at the time weren't ready for disc drives.  They were horribly slow and aside from extra storage (used almost exclusively on other consoles for lame, fmv cut-scenes) had no real benefit.  For the best example see the superior in every way n64 version of mk trilogy vs the crappy, slow loading... shang tsung can't morph into all the characters, tinny sounding versions on the other systems.

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "mistake".  From a "success of the machine" standpoint, it definitely was a mistake.  Memory still wasn't cheap at that point, but a pressed disc was.  This kept the prices on games very high throughout the life of the machine, and caused major developers, and just as importantly consumers,  to turn elsewhere.  Was the experience better for not having to wait through the load times?  Certainly.  Was it better enough to make consumers want to pay for it, or developers sacrifice capital for?  Apparently not.  Also, the PSX seemed "ready for the disc drive" and eventually showed over it's unprecedented lifespan that it was the right thing to do.

Censoring MK... well it's easy to call it a mistake when you are a kid and wanted to play mk in all it's glory (guilty as charged) but looking back I can see the logic behind their decision.  At the time console games WERE primarily for kids and MK I caused a lot of controversy.  Also remember that this pre-dates the esrb ratings system,  Nintendo was just covering themselves legally.  The esrb was in place by the time mk ii came out and it, as well as all the other sequels were fully uncensored.  (Btw, the genesis ports of mk games were terrible, with a low color pallette and inferior sound and controls even with censoring the nintendo version was better.)

Another real mistake by Nintendo.  They should have had a code system where an adult could lock it out.  The censorship of this title is what, to most gamers of the time, really drove home the idea that Nintendo was a company which made games targeted at little kids.  At a time when video gamers were "growing up", but still gaming, this made them feel as though playing Nintendo was playing "games meant for kids".  This worked well for sales of their consoles and titles to adults who wanted safe games for their small children, but embracing that ideology in order to appeal to that market segment, forever took them out of the mainstream of "serious" adult gaming.  A market segment which is very important for long-term success and profitability of a gaming console and it's associated software.

[Malenko]

I hate to stay on topic here, but the Super Mario for Wii was worth $30, if only for the art book thingie. I would have been a no brainer had they included one or both of the Super Mario World games.

[severdhed]

$30 is a good price for this game, although i think a little more effort could have gone into it.  it is exactly the same as the snes version..they didn't even update it to reflect the new controls.  when you are at the main screen selecting between the 4 games, when you select on, there is still a picture of the SNES controller describing what the buttons do.  sure it isn't rocket science, but i expected more from Nintendo.  I also agree that they should have included super mario world in the bundle...(and Yoshi's island).  i was a little disapointed with the art book, it just wasn't as cool as I had hoped....i haven't listened to the CD yet.  the games however are just as awesome as they were 20+ years ago...i playes super mario 2 for a few hours the other night and had a blast.

[DaveMMR]

But if we're counting these mistakes:  Virtual Boy, cartridges for N64, unfair licensing for the NES, censoring Mortal Kombat for the SNES... and that's all I can think of right now.   So yup, it is only a "few".

I hate to go on a rant but....

Virtual Boy... not a mistake in concept (see the 3ds) it will admit that the end product and release date were a mistake.  In other words the idea was too far ahead of it's time and the tech wasn't ready yet.

Sorry, can't really see why this went to market.  When you have to start warning consumers about eye damage and to keep kids under 5 away, you may need to rethink what you're releasing.  I can't imagine someone at Nintendo thought this would be comfortable to play for 5 minutes.   I give them credit for rolling the dice, but it was a messy failure leading to Gunpei Yokoi's (Game Boy) departure.   Who knows, he may have been somewhere else and not helping a motorist that fateful day had he kept his job...

Cartridges for the n64....  DEFINATELY not a mistake.  Consoles at the time weren't ready for disc drives.  They were horribly slow and aside from extra storage (used almost exclusively on other consoles for lame, fmv cut-scenes) had no real benefit.  For the best example see the superior in every way n64 version of mk trilogy vs the crappy, slow loading... shang tsung can't morph into all the characters, tinny sounding versions on the other systems.

So I guess we're just completely ignoring the fact that the Playstation (a CD-based system for anyone under 10 reading this) completely DOMINATED and handed Nintendo their first loss in the current console generation.  I really don't know why you would think consoles were not ready when history clearly states otherwise. 

The cost savings for publishers and consumers with CD storage was unmistakable, but Nintendo has always been stubborn (read David Sheff's "Game Over" for some eye-opening examples); this was just the first time their stubborness has bit them in the ass.  Oh, wait no... second time.    The first time was....

Censoring MK... well it's easy to call it a mistake when you are a kid and wanted to play mk in all it's glory (guilty as charged) but looking back I can see the logic behind their decision.  At the time console games WERE primarily for kids and MK I caused a lot of controversy.  Also remember that this pre-dates the esrb ratings system,  Nintendo was just covering themselves legally.  The esrb was in place by the time mk ii came out and it, as well as all the other sequels were fully uncensored. 

Well first of all, MKII for SNES came out before the rating system went into effect.   The warning on the box was unique and self-labeled (see this page's image on right).    With no rating system in place, why then would they do a complete 180 on their policies then?   It's because of the poor sales of MKI and the slack they caught. 

But forget Mortal Kombat.  There's a laundry list of laughable content cut from games because Nintendo didn't want to offend and set themselves up to be the "Disney" of gaming.  Crosses were removed, you couldn't say the word "kill" (Mario defeated Goombas in the instruction manual), any sort of bleeding was forbidden, and so on.   (Further reading)  And their excessive censorship and meddling earned them a reputation as "kidee" they STILL have not shaken.   

(Btw, the genesis ports of mk games were terrible, with a low color pallette and inferior sound and controls even with censoring the nintendo version was better.)

Agreed, but consumers wanted the game to play like the arcade (i.e. blood/fatalities), so MKI for Genesis was the better, albeit uglier, choice for many.

Howard, I love Nintendo and consider myself a fan - but we have to accept that sometimes the emperor had no clothes.

[Howard_Casto]

Howard, I love Nintendo and consider myself a fan - but we have to accept that sometimes the emperor had no clothes.

Oh I absolutely agree, but sometimes the Emperor looks better naked than with what the one-eyed mentally challenged tailor tries to dress him in. 

Nintendo undoubtedly made some "mistakes" that to the short-sighted looked like mistakes because they hurt them financially, but in the long run were the correct decisions because they saved the companies reputation.  To this day Sony is regarded as a electronics company and Nintendo is known as a video game company.  There is a stark difference.  Nintendo is known for making great games. Those who enjoy those games will buy any system nintendo releases simply because they are nintendo exclusives.  Sony is known for making (great I guess?) hardware.  This is a very dangerous position to be in because if people don't care for your hardware or your price-point (this this gen's standings) your sales and reputation will take a dangerous hit. 

[RandyT]

Nintendo undoubtedly made some "mistakes" that to the short-sighted looked like mistakes because they hurt them financially, but in the long run were the correct decisions because they saved the companies reputation.

In who's eyes?  There are droves of consumers who ditched Nintendo for competing platforms every time they made one of those mistakes.  What hurts a company financially, also hurts their reputation. 

  To this day Sony is regarded as a electronics company and Nintendo is known as a video game company.  There is a stark difference.  Nintendo is known for making great games. Those who enjoy those games will buy any system nintendo releases simply because they are nintendo exclusives.  Sony is known for making (great I guess?) hardware.  This is a very dangerous position to be in because if people don't care for your hardware or your price-point (this this gen's standings) your sales and reputation will take a dangerous hit. 

If you had said that about MS, I would have been more inclined to agree.  The unprecedented success of the PSX platform firmly positioned Sony as a video game company.  There are so many other players in the consumer electronics field that Sony barely stands out in it anymore (although my last 2 home theater amp purchases were Sonys.)  Sony has the advantage of being able to offer bleeding edge hardware at the market price, while being able to endure slow sales long enough for the costs to come down.  By being a fairly major player in the electronics field, they also have advantages Nintendo and MS don't, giving them less to worry about in the "don't like the hardware" scenario.  I don't think anyone has ever condemned the PS3 platform for anything other than it being a bit "alien" to developers, and it costing too much.  Both things which change with time.

Have to admit, PS3 and PSP are better than their respective competitors in every single way except 'fun'.

Err...really??  Both of the other systems outsell Nintendo on the software side of things, so that indicates more people buying and playing games on those systems.  If it wasn't "fun", they wouldn't be doing it.  The style of games is certainly different between Nintendo and the other two, but different is only better when the difference is one which appeals specifically to you.  You, and Howard enjoy the style of the games Nintendo produces, but to say that they are any more fun than something like Halo, or God of War, is something that is a matter of opinion.
 

Get over your notion of them being a consumer electronics company, though.  More than 50% of their revenue has come from the video games for years.

Sony still sells a lot of other stuff besides video games.  Like Microsoft, this turns into a positive for the consumer, not a negative.  Nintendo has most of it's eggs in one basket.  It's a lot more vulnerable as a company, and it cannot subsidize the videogame side from the success of other products like MS and SONY can (and does).

[DaveMMR]

Howard, I love Nintendo and consider myself a fan - but we have to accept that sometimes the emperor had no clothes.

Nintendo undoubtedly made some "mistakes" that to the short-sighted looked like mistakes because they hurt them financially, but in the long run were the correct decisions because they saved the companies reputation. 

Nintendo's reputation has almost never been spotless.   They were key in bringing back from the dead the US video game market, but only by being ruthless.   Retailers hated them and 3rd party publishers hated them.   Soon, many older gamers began resenting Nintendo for treating them like they were still children.  That still exists today; you can't play online with any sort of ease like you can with Sony and MS.  Even "friending" someone involves copying down some cryptic string of numbers instead of simply a username.   

Make no mistake, Nintendo is still around despite its mistakes because of what it can and does do right.  But it's reputation is now strongest among those who play next to no videogames (and the hardcore fanboys).   Then there are those of us who love Nintendo for what they have to offer, but grit out teeth over the little annoyances we have to put up with to enjoy said offerings.

BTW:  Apologies to taking this thread off-topic a bit, but I can't resist a good video game history discussion.

[Mikezilla]

Howard, I love Nintendo and consider myself a fan - but we have to accept that sometimes the emperor had no clothes.

Nintendo undoubtedly made some "mistakes" that to the short-sighted looked like mistakes because they hurt them financially, but in the long run were the correct decisions because they saved the companies reputation.  

Nintendo's reputation has almost never been spotless.   They were key in bringing back from the dead the US video game market, but only by being ruthless.   Retailers hated them and 3rd party publishers hated them.   Soon, many older gamers began resenting Nintendo for treating them like they were still children.  That still exists today; you can't play online with any sort of ease like you can with Sony and MS.  Even "friending" someone involves copying down some cryptic string of numbers instead of simply a username.    

Make no mistake, Nintendo is still around despite its mistakes because of what it can and does do right.  But it's reputation is now strongest among those who play next to no videogames (and the hardcore fanboys).   Then there are those of us who love Nintendo for what they have to offer, but grit out teeth over the little annoyances we have to put up with to enjoy said offerings.

BTW:  Apologies to taking this thread off-topic a bit, but I can't resist a good video game history discussion.

Touching on the Online stuff that Nintendo seems to ingore... I feel as though most Nintendo games are meant to be played with multiple people, at the same place. I like that aspect of it. Do you think Super mario wii, or DKCR would be as fun if they were played on line? Hell no. Aside from the FPS, which Im sick of, what else do people even play online anyway? Puzzle games? Fighters? To me, that seems just like playing a CPU opponent. I kinda like the fact that they dont do stuff on line.

I was unaware of publishers and retailers hating them though. Seems like they would love them considering, most often than not Nintendo = Success. Well, for the retailers anyway. Nintendos best games are in house so you got me there. The reason I bought the wii was for Mario, Zelda, Metroid, DK etc. Mega Man even jumped ship. Ill still buy it for those games because those games are great, I have a ps3 now and the only exclusive to that is GoW and Uncharted, everything else is made for 360 as well. I wish I would have got a PS3 instead of a 360 back in the day but oh well. It was too damn expensive. Sorry, that was a tangent  

[DaveMMR]

Touching on the Online stuff that Nintendo seems to ingore... I feel as though most Nintendo games are meant to be played with multiple people, at the same place. I like that aspect of it. Do you think Super mario wii, or DKCR would be as fun if they were played on line? Hell no. Aside from the FPS, which Im sick of, what else do people even play online anyway? Puzzle games? Fighters? To me, that seems just like playing a CPU opponent. I kinda like the fact that they dont do stuff on line.

Actually the Wii has quite a few games that are great for online play, or as good as the Wii can do online.    We always play Mario Kart online.  My girlfriend is also always playing Dr. Mario with online opponents.  Finally, Super Smash Brothers Brawl would be great online if it wasn't so darn slow.   But what stinks is that these people you're playing might as well be the computer.   There are no profiles, no names (other than user names) and you can't even talk to them beyond a small selection of preset phrases.  If you like playing against a person you meet online, you can't friend them (at least, not that I know of).   The only friends you can have online are people you know IRL.  "Protect the children, annoy the adults" - that's their motto.

[BTW - The Wii Speak, that lets you talk to others online?  Only works with games you don't want to play online... or at all... anyway.]

I was unaware of publishers and retailers hating them though. Seems like they would love them considering, most often than not Nintendo = Success. Well, for the retailers anyway. Nintendos best games are in house so you got me there. The reason I bought the wii was for Mario, Zelda, Metroid, DK etc. Mega Man even jumped ship. Ill still buy it for those games because those games are great, I have a ps3 now and the only exclusive to that is GoW and Uncharted, everything else is made for 360 as well. I wish I would have got a PS3 instead of a 360 back in the day but oh well. It was too damn expensive. Sorry, that was a tangent  

Do you know why Konami had a second label, Ultra?  Or LJN with Acclaim?  Or why Tengen games were unlicensed.  It's because Nintendo's rules for publishing on their system were extremely strict and borderline draconian.   Labels were only allowed five games per year with two-year exclusivity.   Konami and Acclaim had those aforementioned "workarounds" to get out more games.   But they still to pay fees to Nintendo for a minimum order of cartridges (they could not manufacture their own).  Nintendo defends it as quality control (to prevent another crash) but it was all very, very costly for these companies but they had to play by the rules because Nintendo was where the customers were.  

As for Tengen (a/k/a Atari):  they tried to negotiate their own deal with Nintendo because of who they were.  But instead of playing by the rules, they just turned around and cracked the protection on the NES.  Some messy court battles ensued.

Meanwhile, during the NES days, retailers were "bullied" by Nintendo. For one example, retailers who put the Master System up next to the NES on the shelve would suddenly find their allotment of games severely cut.  

You don't see much of that "exclusivity" nowadays because Nintendo was found guilty of anti-trust activities.   Around the SNES, third-party publishers started making games for multiple systems simultaneously (see Mortal Kombat).    Also their price-fixing found them receiving heavy fines in Europe.  Years later, when greener pastures appeared (i.e. Playstation), many publishers were quick to jump Nintendo's ship (see: Square Enix).  

So yeah, to anyone that had to do business with them at the time, Nintendo was a bunch of evil ---daisies---...

[Mikezilla]

That was very informative, I had no idea Nintendo had such an iron clad grip on the gaming market. I thought they dominated due to the fact that they had the best games, didnt really occur to me the marketing scheme they had in place. 

[RandyT]

That was very informative, I had no idea Nintendo had such an iron clad grip on the gaming market. I thought they dominated due to the fact that they had the best games, didnt really occur to me the marketing scheme they had in place. 

It was only the fact that they had such a grip on the market that allowed them to be as evil as they were.  They used the court system, and the threat of legal action to line their coffers.  There were plenty of stinkers on the NES, so it became obvious after not too long that the "Quality Seal" was nothing more than a symbol that the developer had paid whatever draconian licensing fees Nintendo demanded at the time.  "Quality" didn't really seem to have much to do with it.

Of course, this isn't so very different from what all console makers do today, other than they now realize that a system without good games, as a result of major third party support, is one destined for the dust bin.  The fact that there is major competition is what has fixed this problem and now has console makers courting developers instead of holding them at virtual gunpoint.

Add my apology to the pile for the derailment.  I also find it hard to resist a good gaming history discussion. 

[Malenko]

I love the derailment. With all this nintendo talk, I still  think its amazing the genesis had the lifecycle it did, considering it started out fighting the NES and later the much better SNES, 89-95 I think. I still think the SNES was the best overall system I ever owned though. It was also the first system I had to buy on my own.

[Mikezilla]

I love the derailment. With all this nintendo talk, I still  think its amazing the genesis had the lifecycle it did, considering it started out fighting the NES and later the much better SNES, 89-95 I think. I still think the SNES was the best overall system I ever owned though. It was also the first system I had to buy on my own.

Haha me too Malenko. That was also informative Randy. Yeah, I myself am surprised at that as well. I cant really remember too many Genesis exclusives that I wanted to play. Couldnt agree with you more, the SNES was amazing. I still have it hooked up in my garage, I was rocking Chrono Trigger. I think the reason I didnt like the Genesis was due to the fact most of the "good" games were sports games. I did like Spiderman, and Altered Beast though. Not worth buying the system IMHO. Not to mention I was like 10 so I couldnt have anyway