dragons lair trilogy?

[lilshawn]

So I sees we have ourselves a new game coming out for the wii...

http://www.dragonslairtrilogy.com/

Me thinks I shall have to see how this game compares to it's originals... I may or may not be downloading it as we speak to play on my mostly-certain-it-might-not-be-modified-to-play-copies-of-games. wii.

[Vigo]

Aww....I was hoping there was going to be a real Dragon's Lair 3. I don't quite consider Space Ace a sequel in any right other than in spirit and style. I know there was rumors going on of a Dragon's Lair Movie from Don Bluth, so it would only be fitting that they made another game.

I don't know if I can justify buying yet another version of these games. The wii controls would have to be awfully innovative to make me want to jump on this. Generally, Wii game ports have a history of only over complicating controls rather than improving upon them.

[lilshawn]

well, i played it, and i'd have to say it's not bad at all. (from what i can remember of the original.)

no crazy controls, no fancy BS. just a direct port. left right up down and attack. (hold controller sideways.)

for the first there is the option of playing arcade or a "home" version that has the scenes not found in the arcade version, but where on the disk. i haven't had much play on the second or the "third" yet.

i still suck at it though. 

for those that are able and interested, give it a try.

[DaveMMR]

I can't bring myself to buy another version of Dragon's Lair.  I think I bought it like three times already and it's still that game I play for five minutes and I'm done.  I love it for the technology and innovation (not to mention the animation eye-candy), but gameplay-wise it's pretty shallow.

[Howard_Casto]

Not quite sure what you are referring to by "technology and innovation".  Dragon's lair isn't much more complicated than space invaders, it just looks more complicated due to the laser disc footage.  If by innovation you mean the ability to control a laserdisc player via a serial port.... I guess....

I think the bluth games look amazing, but quite frankly they are the most over-rated games in history.  Ironically, the best, and most "video-game like" of his was time traveler, and yet nobody liked it. 

Note I'm not bad-mouthing laserdisc games though.  Laserdisc games had a lot going for them and many were quite fun.  But these were the games in which video for graphics made sense (american laser games shooters) or the laser dsic footage was used to enhance traditional gameplay (us Vs them, mach 3, ect...). 

What bluth did was make three 20 minute films and somehow shoe-horn them into the video game format.  And keep in mind I am a major laser disc game fanatic... just not so much that I am blinded to poor gameplay mechanics.

[Vigo]

I would dare say that there was innovation and technology going on. From your point of view, I am guessing you would label it as "resourcefulness and expensive hardware".

The innovation come from that Dragon's Lair is the first game that intensely integrated cinema with video gaming. It was unique, and it is a famous game because of this. I agree that on the basic level, it is a very simplistic game of "press the right control at the right moment", the innovation is making a game that is 90% animation, 10% gameplay. It was a gamble that paid off, but the genre was really just a fad.

The technology was notable, but mostly because they dumped a $1000+ laserdisc player in every machine, but yeah, it was current existing technology. It was new to the industry though. I think Dragon's lair was the second released laserdisc game, but the first successful one.

[Ginsu Victim]

I would never buy this, since these games just aren't fun to "play" (if you can use that term), but it's cool to see them on one disc together in the current gaming generation.

[DaveMMR]

Not quite sure what you are referring to by "technology and innovation".  Dragon's lair isn't much more complicated than space invaders, it just looks more complicated due to the laser disc footage.  If by innovation you mean the ability to control a laserdisc player via a serial port.... I guess....

You need to pretend you're in 1983 and the next 27 years haven't happened yet.  You're in an arcade and you see an interactive cartoon by an ex-Disney animator among the simple sprites and sound effects.   Would you really be "whatever" about it?

I had a few drinks when I typed that but, surprisingly, I think I picked the exact right words.  I wasn't referring to the game but the presentation and how the LD player was implemented into a game machine.   It wasn't perfect; machines would fail more than normal because of the constant "jumping around" the LD player was required but not designed to do.  But in 1983, there was buzz that Laserdiscs were the future of game graphics.  Yeah, it kind of led us into "Sega CD FMV crapfest" territory for a bit but that fixed itself soon enough.

I think the bluth games look amazing, but quite frankly they are the most over-rated games in history.  Ironically, the best, and most "video-game like" of his was time traveler, and yet nobody liked it.  

Bluth didn't work on Time Traveler but Rick Dyer did (who also worked on DL).   Otherwise, agreed.  Great to look at and play for five minutes or so, but it wouldn't come close to killing an afternoon for me.   And I kinda liked Time Traveler (arcade version only though).

Note I'm not bad-mouthing laserdisc games though.  Laserdisc games had a lot going for them and many were quite fun.  But these were the games in which video for graphics made sense (american laser games shooters) or the laser dsic footage was used to enhance traditional gameplay (us Vs them, mach 3, ect...).  

Oh I am.  I think, at best, they're merely "okay" game-wise (American Laser games in particular).  Again, they're more interesting to look at than play and that's why they stay on my radar.  

What bluth did was make three 20 minute films and somehow shoe-horn them into the video game format.  And keep in mind I am a major laser disc game fanatic... just not so much that I am blinded to poor gameplay mechanics.

I love laserdiscs too actually.  I just redid my spare room and hooked up my old player.  I have this game disc for kids which is like an interactive activity book.  Some chapters had you "pause" the disc on the right frame to score points while, for example, a graphic of a ship was docking or a circle was crawling down a bullseye.   It's actually slightly more fun than Dragon's Lair - just not as pretty.    

[Smeghead]

I would be freakin out with excitement about now, but I have a Mame cab now with Daphne on so ........meh  

[lilshawn]

You need to pretend you're in 1983 and the next 27 years haven't happened yet.  You're in an arcade and you see an interactive cartoon by an ex-Disney animator among the simple sprites and sound effects.   Would you really be "whatever" about it?

 

people have been soiled by high definition this, and blue ray that, 52x DVD drives, internet at a bajillion bits a second, and don't realize that we wouldn't be HERE if we didn't go THERE with technology THEN.

[shateredsoul]

it's like those long action scenes we a lot of now (resident evil, god of war, etc etc), except they make you guess what button to press. Never felt like a game for me.. I don't feel it has much skill involved, just memorization. I remember looking at it when I was a kid and wanting to play so bad. I finally had a chance to play it.. I thought, "75 cents, that's a lot.. but it must be worth it!"

I had no idea what to do, how to attack or anything. Playing it now is sort of fun .. just to see what happens. It still doesn't feel like a game though.

[Howard_Casto]

it's like those long action scenes we a lot of now (resident evil, god of war, etc etc), except they make you guess what button to press. Never felt like a game for me.. I don't feel it has much skill involved, just memorization. I remember looking at it when I was a kid and wanting to play so bad. I finally had a chance to play it.. I thought, "75 cents, that's a lot.. but it must be worth it!"

I had no idea what to do, how to attack or anything. Playing it now is sort of fun .. just to see what happens. It still doesn't feel like a game though.

Exactly!  This is why I don't care for the bluth games in-particular.  There are other ld games made by other companies like Super Don QuixHote and Time Gal that use the exact same formula and are more fun to play.  Why?  Because these games quickly show you which button to press on screen, making them the direct descendants of "quick time events" in modern video games.  In the bluth games you get this vague gold glow which may or may not help you figure out what to do.  Often times the highlighted thing is in the upper right/left corner, which would be fine if those games didn't have a 4-way joystick!  So you have a 50/50 shot of getting it right.  It's a shame because the bluth games have the best animation of any laserdisc game, they just have poor gameplay.

[Kevin Mullins]

Aww....I was hoping there was going to be a real Dragon's Lair 3. I don't quite consider Space Ace a sequel in any right other than in spirit and style.

Yeah, I wish more love had been put into these as true arcade sequels.
(I have copies of both floating around here somewhere)

[lilshawn]

GAH! this isn't about comparing it to other games. You can't compare this game to anything. (except maybe "time traveler" later on) this is about one company seeing bleeding edge technology, taking a chance and doing something absolutely NOBODY had ever done before. i think it did very well for them at the time.

how the hell else are you supposed to control a video disk with only set scenes?? i mean there is only 2 outcomes... you make it or you die. they didn't have much control to play with. like i said, you need to stop thinking about NOW and get your mindset in THEN...

picture 1983, the home video game market was on the verge of collapse, space themed games like galaga where saturating the arcade market. You feel as though if you have to fly, shoot or save another space thing your going to kill yourself, And here it is... it looks like a cartoon movie, but plays like a video game.

now, i'm sure if companies had all the time in the world they could have made Dirk have 10 different ways to go, and a hundred different levels, but because things where moving so fast, and the technology of the time was limited, you do what you can in the time allotted. if you where a software company with this idea, before anybody else, and you didn't try, you would have to have been an idiot not to. say what you will about the play mechanics of the game, but a LD player doesn't have scripting, it doesn't have any kind of programming language, it doesn't have any memory or operating system. you put the disk in, and it spits out video. to control it in anyway resembling a video game was hot stuff in '83 not to mention compared to the crappy sprite based graphics of ALL the video games at the time... you have to give them credit for that.

i'm not a lover of the game, in fact, i'm quite terrible at it. but as a child of the 70's, i seen this stuff as it happened. Been lots of bad decisions by video game companies, and i don't think this would be one of them.

There are other ld games made by other companies like Super Don QuixHote and Time Gal that use the exact same formula and are more fun to play.  Why?  Because these games quickly show you which button to press on screen, making them the direct descendants of "quick time events" in modern video games.  In the bluth games you get this vague gold glow which may or may not help you figure out what to do.  Often times the highlighted thing is in the upper right/left corner, which would be fine if those games didn't have a 4-way joystick!  So you have a 50/50 shot of getting it right.  It's a shame because the bluth games have the best animation of any laserdisc game, they just have poor gameplay.

in case you haven't noticed, all these games came out after dragons lair. you have to learn from somewhere. i'm sure they saw a shortcoming in the game and decided to fix it in theirs. no harm in that.

[Howard_Casto]

Those games came out after dragon's lair, but not after dragon's lair II, space ace or time traveler.  In other words, they didn't learn their lesson.  As I said only time traveler starts to feel like a game, mostly because of the simple visuals and fixed camera angle that makes it easy to understand what you are supposed to do.

And no, we don't have to get our mindset to "then" because we aren't purchasing them then, we are purchasing them now!  I take exception to the phrase "looks like a cartoon movie, play like a video game".  They looked like a movie and didn't play at all!!  I distinctly remember playing them back in the day, or I should say attempting to play them.  The thing cost 50 cents... it was the first game I rmeember costing more than a quarter.  On top of that three lives and you are done.  So I'm sittting there as a kid trying to control dirk as a normal video game character only nothing happens.  I finally get to a decision point, but at this point I think the game is broken or somthing and I'm not even controlling him.  By the time I sort of figure out the gist of what I'm supposed to do my game is over!  And I've wasted a prescious 50 cents on this crap, so I'm done! Yes now with the invention of the internet and emulators (which elimiante the need for quarters)  I can get some enjoyment out of the games, but not back then.  Laserdisc "quick time" games  were a gimmick and it showed. 


laser disc games were a TERRIBLE decision for video game companies.  How do I know?  Because all the companies that only made laserdisc games quickly went out of business.  You are wearing those nostalga glasses I hear about so often.  Laserdisc gaming was a wonderful experiment that ended in failure.  Saying that they weren't a mistake though is like saying the 7800 wasn't a mistake, or that atari making the ET game wasn't a mistake.

[Xiaou2]

Come on.

 Dragons Lair was EPIC.

 At the time it came out... there were graphics not much more advanced than excitebike.  And the sounds were not much better...

 Dragons Lair had the most incredible hand painted scenes, with some of the best hand drawn animation out there.  The orchestrial sounds and effects, far surpassing what was typical of the general arcade experience.

 As a kid seeing the game, I was in awe.  Loved watching others play it.. but I couldnt get anywhere on it, and at 50 cents a pop, I only played so far into it.

 The game was shallow in terms of gameplay...  but as an experience, it was pretty great.  Even repeated deaths were fun, because of the various ways Dirk was killed off... especially the end of the game where he turns to bones and falls apart.  Just plain beautiful stuff.

 Compared to what Japan is putting out today... like that "Flip the Table" game, it still shines.  And such hand drawn animation never really gets old.  In fact, compared to much of the CGI animation, its GODLY.  Many CGI animators are generally very bad an making realistic and believable movements.

 I also wouldnt say that Laserdiscs were a bad decision.  DL made Boatloads of cash.  Not just for the operators... but for the actual sales of the machines.  I think the machine sales broke all sorts of records.

 Personally, I didnt care for the sequals.  DLII had too many option points in it to be able to enjoy any animation.  Space Ace was pretty cool though.


 Time Traveler SUCKED big time.  The main character as a yokel cowboy was pathetic.  The cheesy actors performances were dreadful, and the games slow and unrealistic actions (actors moving too slow, with too many frames) didnt match the pace of games situations... nor did it give any real depth of emotion or any real meaningful experience.  Not so on DL, where each section evoked some sort of emotional response.  From dirks expressions, the environment, the baddies, the sound effects, various visual camera pans... etc.. all created a real emotional experience/ride.

 Just watch the entire DL video, and right after it, watch Time Traveler, and see how each made you feel.  Even compare scene by scene.  There is no comparison whatsoever.  DL blows TT out of the water in every way shape and form.

 As for games that tell you which way to go... thats plain stupid.  If it tells you, then there is no challenge at all, and you could play till the end easily.
(DL had a lot of 'clues' to help out, but didnt go so far as to give away everything)

 DLs gamplay was 'Quarter Muncher".  Much like any sidescroller beatem-up... where it would be impossible to play to the end on a single credit.  Its a game which you earn your ability to see and experience more of the animation/sounds by figuring out what button to press at the right times.

 The problem with the LDs were cost. It cost a boatload of cash to make custom hand drawn animation... especially stuff on DLs level. (Don Quixhote does not even come close to DLs awesome hand painted backgrounds, or the animation realism/fluidity. Its a snorefest too)  And next was playtime. Once someone figured out all the moves... either by quarters, or by buying a cheat book... they could play a very long time on a machine.  Hence DL2s increased decision inputs.

 DL still continues to sell, generation after generation on multiple platforms, because its a true masterpiece.  That cant be said for a game like Time Traveler.  And cant be said for a lot of other games which have more controlability.

 It certainly isnt perfect, but Im sure glad it was made.  Even though I only know a certain level of rooms (I prefer not to cheat, and figure them out on my own), I still loved the experience as a kid, and even the occasional try at it now and then.

 As for the Going out of Business comment... Umm, most all game companies Bit the dust in the supposed crash of the 80s.  There were too many games made for Ops to purchase, some of them being low-earners. 

 In the arcades here locally.. ALL had a Space Ace, & Dragons Lair. Some even had Mach 3, Galaxy Ranger, and Cliff Hanger.  (Galaxy Ranger being made by Sega, and Sega not falling in the arcades till more recent years)

[Xiaou2]

From Wiki:

Reception

Dragon's Lair initially represented high hopes for the then sagging arcade industry, fronting the new wave of immersive laser disc video games. Arcade operators at its release reported long lines, even though the game was the first video arcade games to cost 50 cents.[5] Operators were also concerned however that players would figure out Dragon's Lair's unique predefined game play, leading them to "get the hang of it and stop playing it." [6] By July of 1983, 1000 machines had been distributed, and there were already a backlog of about 7,500.[6] By the end of 1983 Electronic Games and Electronic Fun were rating Dragon's Lair as the number one video arcade game in the US,[7] while the arcade industry gave it recognition for helping turn around its 1983 financial slump.[8] Dragon's Lair received recognition as the most influential game of 1983, to the point that regular computer graphics looked "rather elementary compared to top-quality animation".[9] By February of 1984, it was reported to have grossed over
 $32 million
for Cinematronics

[lilshawn]

look, if you like it, buy it and play it if you don't whatever don't. if you're on the fence download it.

Those games came out after dragon's lair, but not after dragon's lair II, space ace or time traveler.  In other words, they didn't learn their lesson. 

i think for the sake of continuity through the sequel they kept the same system in place.

And no, we don't have to get our mindset to "then" because we aren't purchasing them then, we are purchasing them now

good lord, let's compare it to GOD OF WAR THEN! YA IT SUCKS MONKEY BALLS!!! even Toy Story looks more real than this piece of crap!

Laserdisc "quick time" games  were a gimmick and it showed.

of course they where, that's the point. in the 80's EVERYTHING was about gimicks! all you needed was a hook, it didn't mater what, you just had to provide something different. whether it be time traveler's 3D mirror cabinet, journey's digitized photos and cassete of music playing in the cabinet, or even the xmen cabinet... hellooooo 6 players?!?! i gotta play this!

laser disc games were a TERRIBLE decision for video game companies

just think of it as a proof of concept. the idea WAS there, YES it was poorly implemented, but it paved the way for future technology. companies realized then, that things had to change. people wheren't going to keep playing the same crappy space games over and over.


you think it sucks, fine don't play it. i'm not asking you to. I'm not saying dragons lair is super epic either, chances are, i'll play it 3 more times and that will be it. which is how i feel about EVERY game currently being produced, which is why i choose to NOT download all my games and not play them on my NOT moded system, because i would be ripped off buying all these crappy games i'd play once.

[saint]

+1 from my personal experience and point of view as a child of the 80's.

Come on.

 Dragons Lair was EPIC.

 At the time it came out... there were graphics not much more advanced than excitebike.  And the sounds were not much better...

 Dragons Lair had the most incredible hand painted scenes, with some of the best hand drawn animation out there.  The orchestrial sounds and effects, far surpassing what was typical of the general arcade experience.

 As a kid seeing the game, I was in awe.  Loved watching others play it.. but I couldnt get anywhere on it, and at 50 cents a pop, I only played so far into it.

 The game was shallow in terms of gameplay...  but as an experience, it was pretty great.  Even repeated deaths were fun, because of the various ways Dirk was killed off... especially the end of the game where he turns to bones and falls apart.  Just plain beautiful stuff.

 Compared to what Japan is putting out today... like that "Flip the Table" game, it still shines.  And such hand drawn animation never really gets old.  In fact, compared to much of the CGI animation, its GODLY.  Many CGI animators are generally very bad an making realistic and believable movements.

 I also wouldnt say that Laserdiscs were a bad decision.  DL made Boatloads of cash.  Not just for the operators... but for the actual sales of the machines.  I think the machine sales broke all sorts of records.

 Personally, I didnt care for the sequals.  DLII had too many option points in it to be able to enjoy any animation.  Space Ace was pretty cool though.


 Time Traveler SUCKED big time.  The main character as a yokel cowboy was pathetic.  The cheesy actors performances were dreadful, and the games slow and unrealistic actions (actors moving too slow, with too many frames) didnt match the pace of games situations... nor did it give any real depth of emotion or any real meaningful experience.  Not so on DL, where each section evoked some sort of emotional response.  From dirks expressions, the environment, the baddies, the sound effects, various visual camera pans... etc.. all created a real emotional experience/ride.

 Just watch the entire DL video, and right after it, watch Time Traveler, and see how each made you feel.  Even compare scene by scene.  There is no comparison whatsoever.  DL blows TT out of the water in every way shape and form.

 As for games that tell you which way to go... thats plain stupid.  If it tells you, then there is no challenge at all, and you could play till the end easily.
(DL had a lot of 'clues' to help out, but didnt go so far as to give away everything)

 DLs gamplay was 'Quarter Muncher".  Much like any sidescroller beatem-up... where it would be impossible to play to the end on a single credit.  Its a game which you earn your ability to see and experience more of the animation/sounds by figuring out what button to press at the right times.

 The problem with the LDs were cost. It cost a boatload of cash to make custom hand drawn animation... especially stuff on DLs level. (Don Quixhote does not even come close to DLs awesome hand painted backgrounds, or the animation realism/fluidity. Its a snorefest too)  And next was playtime. Once someone figured out all the moves... either by quarters, or by buying a cheat book... they could play a very long time on a machine.  Hence DL2s increased decision inputs.

 DL still continues to sell, generation after generation on multiple platforms, because its a true masterpiece.  That cant be said for a game like Time Traveler.  And cant be said for a lot of other games which have more controlability.

 It certainly isnt perfect, but Im sure glad it was made.  Even though I only know a certain level of rooms (I prefer not to cheat, and figure them out on my own), I still loved the experience as a kid, and even the occasional try at it now and then.

 As for the Going out of Business comment... Umm, most all game companies Bit the dust in the supposed crash of the 80s.  There were too many games made for Ops to purchase, some of them being low-earners. 

 In the arcades here locally.. ALL had a Space Ace, & Dragons Lair. Some even had Mach 3, Galaxy Ranger, and Cliff Hanger.  (Galaxy Ranger being made by Sega, and Sega not falling in the arcades till more recent years)

[Gray_Area]

+1 from my personal experience and point of view as a child of the 80's.

Come on.

 Dragons Lair was EPIC.

...Time Traveler SUCKED big time.  The main character as a yokel cowboy was pathetic.

...In the arcades here locally.. ALL had a Space Ace, & Dragons Lair. Some even had Mach 3, Galaxy Ranger, and Cliff Hanger.  (Galaxy Ranger being made by Sega, and Sega not falling in the arcades till more recent years)

I second that. The only difference was that not all the major arcades here had a DL, Space Ace was few and far between. I think because they were 50 cents. (The heat issue that caused them to freeze probably didn't help things.) Too rich for my blood. Conversely, Galaxy Ranger and Cobra Command were a quarter.

[shateredsoul]

we are referring to stories of "then" and how confusing it was "then" to us as kids.  I too tried to play it like a normal game.. I pressed left nothing happened, right, nothing happened.  I didn't get it them. Now it makes more sense, sorta.  I love the animation.. but do agree that it would be more enjoyable if it had an option to display commands.. it is a home version after all, you think they'd add something new.

I loved watching people play it though , it was like watching a disney cartoon

[Gray_Area]

we are referring to stories of "then" and how confusing it was "then" to us as kids.  I too tried to play it like a normal game.. I pressed left nothing happened, right, nothing happened.  I didn't get it them.

I had kind of forgotten about that. Yeah, first seeing it, my mind went to thinking it was real-time movement. Ahh, not quite!

but do agree that it would be more enjoyable if it had an option to display commands..

The original does, in the dip switch settings.

[shateredsoul]

we are referring to stories of "then" and how confusing it was "then" to us as kids.  I too tried to play it like a normal game.. I pressed left nothing happened, right, nothing happened.  I didn't get it them.

I had kind of forgotten about that. Yeah, first seeing it, my mind went to thinking it was real-time movement. Ahh, not quite!

but do agree that it would be more enjoyable if it had an option to display commands..

The original does, in the dip switch settings.

Oh, I guess arcade operators decided that would make it too easy :/