New House Construction - Cable Management ???

[Flake]

I am currently having a house built (in the framing process as we speak) and I'm trying to be proactive in regards to running cabling for my home network.  I met with the installer last night and we have currently agreed on the following setup:

1.  Office - TV/Phone/two ethernet ports (not sure if cat 5 or 6)
2.  Living room - 2 TV hookups/phone/two ethernet ports.  Also having two HDMI cables run from the point where my TV will be mounted to the point the gear will be placed.
3.  Daughter 1's bedroom - TV/phone/Ethernet port
4.  Daughter 2's bedroom - TV/phone/Ethernet port
5.  Master bedroom - 2 TV hookups/phone/ethernet port
6.  Deck - TV hookup and a set of speaker wires running out to the deck for outdoor speakers.
7.  Roof - having them prewire cabling required for an HDTV sat dish for Directv to mount dish on roof.

All the ethernet ports and TV hookups will be run to the basement (unfinished for now).  The TV cabling from the roof and internet service will be come into the basement.  The internet connection to the basement will most likely be AT&T Uverse which I will connect to a switch which will then connect to my patch panel.  The additional two ethernet ports I have in my living room and office I wanted to connect to a home server of sorts (just a big harddrive that will sit in my basement next to the internet source) so that I can centralize and access my pics/vids/music from one central location and access those files in those two rooms.

Any other suggestions?  Am I missing something?

Also, I would ideally like to be able to play music off this home server through the soundbar I will have hooked up to my TV in my living room.  What would I need for this?  I suppose a computer with an operating system installed and not just a harddrive.  Actually, would it be possible to simply place the PC I have now in the basement and somehow only have the computer screen in the office?  

Ughhh...I get confused on this crap.  Too many wires, too many options....Maybe just buy and Apple TV?

[BobA]

The wave of the future will be fibre.

[drventure]

I'd probably run cat6 and 2 phone lines to every room.

Coax I suppose, more for resale value than anything. I'm a 1 tv in the house kinda guy. No tv's in the bedrooms, and certainly not in the kid rooms, but that's just me.

Network connection, though? I'm a software dev, so that goes without saying.

Besides, with Wireless headed where it is, I'm wondering if wired will be all that necessary in 5 years or so.

But that's another story.

[Ed_McCarron]

2 Cat6.  2 RG6.  Fiber, at least 6 strands.  Even if you don't term the fiber yet.  62.5/125 multimode plenum is pretty cheap.

To every point.  All home runs.  You'll pay up front, but you'll thank yourself later.

Also, if your code/architect will allow, run a chase or two from the basement to the attic at several points in the structure.

If your budget will allow, this stuff is nice:

http://www.smarthome.com/868241J/2-Cat-5e-2-RG6-Quad-Cable-Jacket-500-Feet-RG6-Coax-Cable/p.aspx

Just over a buck a foot.  Again, even if you don't term them all, it's nice to have the stuff in the boxes.

[Flake]

Ok what would I need "fiber" for?  Also what is a chase and why do I need that in the attic?  Also why would I need two phone lines in each room?

Not downplaying your suggestions I just really don't know what that stuff is or why I would need it?

[saint]

Conduit. Conduit from every location up to the attic or down to the basement if you'll have a drop ceiling in the basement. That way it's easy to add things later. I ran 4000 feet of cable when I built my house, and still regret I didn't run conduit. I did run a long conduit from the basement wiring closet (doesn't everyone have a wiring closet?) to the attic which was a brilliant idea that my builder had. I've used it for a couple of things so far.

[drventure]

Fiber is where wired networking is going, eventually.

pretty much all inwall phone cord is 4 wires, which is 2 lines. If you end up with a home office and second phone line, it's nice to be able to answer from anywhere. Fax also comes to mind.

A chase is basically just a largish "box" that allows you to easily feed cables through without having to use a fish and dig them through tiny little holes you drill out later. Makes it MUCH easier to push a new cable later if necessary.

Check out

http://www.google.com/images?q=cable+chase&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=IeqvTPCrLcLflgebmNjoDw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDMQsAQwAw&biw=1007&bih=843

[Ed_McCarron]

Ok what would I need "fiber" for?  Also what is a chase and why do I need that in the attic?  Also why would I need two phone lines in each room?

Not downplaying your suggestions I just really don't know what that stuff is or why I would need it?

Fiber is for futureproofing.  You can push just about any media over glass with the right adapter.

Two phone lines, but it's not, really.  I'd spec (2) 4 pairs -- the cat6.  You can run ethernet over one cable, and use the other 4 pairs for whatever.  1 pair for phone.  1 pair for remote IR transmitters.  One pair for (insert thing you'll think of in a few years...)     

The chase is just a pathway, to allow you to run wires later.  Conduit, or just a space made available.  Some codes don't like the non-conduit approach because it allows a path for smoke and fire, too.  Then you get into fireblocking material, it gets messy.

[Ed_McCarron]

Also, I would ideally like to be able to play music off this home server through the soundbar I will have hooked up to my TV in my living room.  What would I need for this?  I suppose a computer with an operating system installed and not just a harddrive.

Missed this part.  Check out XBMC.  I run it on a small form factor computer (Asus Aspire Revo) and it allows me to watch/listen to all the stuff my server grabs off usenet.

[eds1275]

every single room of my house [except eh bathrooms] has ethernet, phone, coax, an rca video feed from my security setup, and stereo audio from my control room [that's just a weird one though].

Do your best to run what you need and think you'll need in the future, I've spent many hours running cable through walls and it's not fun!

[Flake]

OK I met with my builder today and we are going to run capped PVC piping from the basement to the attic for future installations.  The thing is the company that this builder uses to run wires, security system, etc. is really ---smurfing--- me on the connections IMO.  For instance I cant supply any of my own cables like HDMI cables and they are charging me $150 per HDMI cable.  Thats insane.  So I am going to install what I think I will need in the short run and provide for reasonably hassle free access for future cabling needs.

Ed - I did check out XBMC and it looks fantastic.  So I really think I'm going to move forward with a HTPC.  Any recommendations out there for one?  It seems you can purchase one all setup in a case that looks more like a AV receiver or I suppose I can purchase a PC and install the proper software (like XBMC) and configure myself.  What I want is to be able to play DVD's, watch TV (Directv signal), play music files, stream netflix, access the internet all through my TV, and at some point build a ripped DVD library.  What HTPC specs would I need to satisfy all these requirements.  I've done some research already but I'm not all that adept at determining hardware requirements.  i dont want to buy something i dont need.

Thanks

[HanoiBoi]

For instance I cant supply any of my own cables like HDMI cables and they are charging me $150 per HDMI cable.  Thats insane.  

Yeah, that's sucky.  If you don't already know about it, checkout monoprice.com.  Good stuff, great prices and lots of reviews.  I ran HDMI in my basement and from monoprice I grabbed 1 each of 10ft, 15 ft, 25ft, 30ft and 40ft and they totaled $142.  Don't know if you've got a leg to stand on if you wanted to somehow argue that.  If not, perhaps you can plan to get in there immediately after the 'official' installers finish....and before the walls go up.  Basically your idea of hassle free future access, but moving the future up a bit.  

Other considerations:

-For a music fan, ceiling speakers throughout the house that could be zoned off and ran through a speaker selector.  If you entertain and want tunes throughout the house, it's a nice option.  Initial setup would simply be to figure out where you might want the speakers and where the speaker selector and receiver will be, then run the wires.

-Projector? If a projector might be a future option (living room, bedroom, etc.) you might want to think of placement and plan on an outlet and run cabling (I did HDMI).

-5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 Surround sound?  Figure out where your speakers will be mounted and run speaker wire.

-Subwoofer?  If so, figure out placement and you'll want to run cabling and plan for a nearby outlet.

Also, not sure if it was mentioned or if it really matters to you (if someone else is stocking the cables), but you'll want 'in wall' rated cables and wires.

Best of luck.

[BobA]

My builder allowed access before the drywall went up as long as I  followed code requirements to run LV cables.  It just meant putting in the proper boxes and using approved wiring.   Wired most rooms to the basement panel.  Makes everything easy now.  I did not put in fibre as I was not thinking that far ahead but I would now.

[CrazySwede]

+1 on the conduit between the attic and the basement.  This will prove very usefull in the future and I am glad to hear your are installing one.  Make sure it is somewhat sizable.  Mine is 1/2 inch and it is getting hard to pull any more wires through it.

A couple more thoughts for you....   Not sure where you live but you may want to install (and wire for) outdoor speakers.  If you do, make sure you put in outside auto-muting volume controllers.  Niles makes some nice ones and they are since they will not blast your neighbors every time you turn on your stereo.  (The mute themselves automatically when you turn on your stereo system.)

If you are going to have a detached garage/shop, run a large conduit between your basement and it.  You never know when you will want to run wires between you house and your garage for alarms, antennas, phone, TV, etc, etc, etc.

Good luck,  -Leif

[Ed_McCarron]

Any recommendations out there for one?  It seems you can purchase one all setup in a case that looks more like a AV receiver or I suppose I can purchase a PC and install the proper software (like XBMC) and configure myself.  What I want is to be able to play DVD's, watch TV (Directv signal), play music files, stream netflix, access the internet all through my TV, and at some point build a ripped DVD library.  What HTPC specs would I need to satisfy all these requirements.  I've done some research already but I'm not all that adept at determining hardware requirements.  i dont want to buy something i dont need.

In all honesty, my little Aspire is a bit underpowered.  With XBMC installed over Ubuntu, it'll do some serious hardware acceleration -- I can watch damn near anything, but the menus are a bit laggy.

Start here for cases -- It'll give you some ideas.  Insert motherboard.  Add software.  Tweak to taste.

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=690&name=HTPC-Media-Center-Cases

[Howard_Casto]

Conduit. Conduit from every location up to the attic or down to the basement if you'll have a drop ceiling in the basement. That way it's easy to add things later. I ran 4000 feet of cable when I built my house, and still regret I didn't run conduit. I did run a long conduit from the basement wiring closet (doesn't everyone have a wiring closet?) to the attic which was a brilliant idea that my builder had. I've used it for a couple of things so far.

Saint is wise in his suggestion.  We simply don't know what kind of wiring will become popular in the future.  The best way to future proof a house is to make sure you can easily run new wiring. 

Also a central closet is a good idea exactly as he says.... quite useful indeed. 

Other suggestions:

Skip the fiber.  We can't really know what will be used in the future, but the use of fiber in a normal residential home is doubtful.  There are places that don't even have anything better than dialup, so I don't see T1's in the hosue happening within the next 30 years or so.  My guess is by the time home access does reach those speeds, we might have a new cable type anyway.

Skip the phone lines.  You can run your home phone via cat5/6  (you might need an adaptor at the faceplate, but still.)  So that is what you should do.  If any wiring standard is on the way out, phone lines are. 

You need 2 cat6's and one coax in EVERY room.  I mean every room, even the bathroom. (For that smart toilet, and tv in front of the can.  )  Coax is important becasue of tv and because most high speed home internet is cable-based and it is doubtful to change in the future.  Cat6 is very flexible and that is why you should install it.  You can use it for internet, phone, intercom, home theater, ect...  The wiring is thick enough to handle most low voltage use, it's easy to run, it will be useful for years to come and it's cheap.  You might even consider 3 cat6's per room.

Make sure you have enough electrical outlets.  I would suggest two recepticals in every room at least and have them wire it so that each room can handle a lot of juice.  Over the years the average home has used more and more power due to more household applicances and I don't see that trend changing anytime soon.

[Blanka]

The wave of the future will be fibre.

Nope, it won't
Fibre is too expensive, too sensitive, and it does not deliver power.

The next big thing for the coming 20 years is HDBaseT. It even works on current CAT 6 Power over Ethernet cables.

So I would either install cat 6 power over ethernet cables, or better, use empty tubes that you can wire easily in the future.
And make EVERY socket capable of an ethernet cable (and duo sockets 2)! So count on 50-100 Ethernet cables in your house! This system is going to be used on EVERYTHING. All iphone/camera loaders etc will use HDBaseT to charge and sync at the same time. Make some room in the utility room as the routers for this will take some room (they can deliver 100W to every cable, enough for your PC, TV or monitor!).

[saint]

I'm a network guy and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I wouldn't run fiber if you're running conduit. I *might* hedge my bets and run fiber if you aren't running conduit, but so far what runs on conduit today has been able to run on copper tomorrow. Sooner or later that will run out but I'm suspicious that will not be an issue for the home.

I ran 4 cat 5e drops and 2 coax drops to one side of each room, and 2 cat 5e drops and 2 coax drops to the other side of each room for maximum flexibility in each room. So far that's paid off in a couple of bedrooms where we've changed the orientation around and were able to change where television and computer locations were.

I ran 2 coax instead of 1 so that I could have video in and video out. We use that to distribute video from our Dish network locations throughout the house. In my study, and in my living room, I have receivers. We can watch what's playing at either of those locations everywhere else in the house via an A/B coax switch in the bedrooms and other watching locations. I run the output from the receivers down to the wiring closet, then redistribute them back out to the primary and secondary coax outlets in each other room.

You can also do that over copper these days, but I built this house 11 years ago when that wasn't so certain/easy.

I would run Cat6 these days, it was magnitudes more expensive back when I built mine with cat5e instead. I have a gigabit network running throughout the house with a central HTPC server with content that can be accessed in every room with cabling. We watch movies in the basement that run over the network from the server 2 stories up, no lag. It's awesome. We have wireless but never use it.

I didn't run cable to my dining room, kitchen (other than 1 for phone), or bathrooms. I regret that. Wish I had. A computer/tv in the kitchen. Computer in the dining room, which doubles as a gathering location sometimes. Resale value of having data/voice in the bathrooms someday.

Highly recommend a drop ceiling in the basement if you have one instead of a drywall ceiling. Makes future upgrades much much much easier, and you can get fairly attractive ceiling tiles.

Used mine 10 years after I built the house to extend my Wii and other video game cabling. My receiver and other gear is to the left of the room. The projector screen we added is in the front. I put audio/video hookups, including USB in the front underneath the screen, that extend through the wall/ceiling to the receiver. Kids/guests can hook up video game systems straight to the projector screen area, and not have to run them straight to the receiver which would have cables across the walkway. Also I put a Wii receiver bar above the projector screen, and ran cabling from it across the ceiling (used 2 extension cables) to the receiver area where the Wii is. Works much more reliably than the wireless model. Upgraded the speaker system through the ceiling very easily in the basement, and also in the living room above since I had easy access.

Etc. Very happy with my choices. Flexibility is good, you don't know now what you'll want in several years.

--- saint

[Flake]

For this of you using HTPC's - where is your computer located in relation to the TV you primarily view the content?  I guess my question is I originally wanted to put centralized server/HTPC in the basement.  But how would you control that from say the living room?  Remote reaches down there?  For that matter how does one access content in the bedrooms?

[Ed_McCarron]

Despite the naysayers, I use fiber extensively in business applications -- the lightning strike that fries one computer may not fry others -- unless you use that new conductive glass.

Of course, if it gets into the power, all bets are off -- but I like glass as a layer of insulation against electrical damage.  The comm ports of a device are typically more sensitive to electrical spikes than the power side.

[saint]

Despite the naysayers, I use fiber extensively in business applications -- the lightning strike that fries one computer may not fry others -- unless you use that new conductive glass.

Of course, if it gets into the power, all bets are off -- but I like glass as a layer of insulation against electrical damage.  The comm ports of a device are typically more sensitive to electrical spikes than the power side.

I use fiber at work, but not to the desktop. Are your maintenance issues higher with the fiber at all? I'd be concerned about patch cords getting abused. Like I said I'd run fiber probably if I wasn't going to have conduit for easy future access, but if I had conduit for future access I wouldn't add the extra expense of fiber right now. If money was no object I'd run it all.

[Flake]

So how do you control a HTPC computer that is located in a different room from where you are accessing and viewing the content?  So lets say my HTPC is in my basement connected via cat6 to the LR, office, and all bedrooms and I was in the LR or a bedroom and wanted to control and access the content on that computer.  How do I do it?  Remote controls?  Do they really reach that far, even in RF?

[saint]

So how do you control a HTPC computer that is located in a different room from where you are accessing and viewing the content?  So lets say my HTPC is in my basement connected via cat6 to the LR, office, and all bedrooms and I was in the LR or a bedroom and wanted to control and access the content on that computer.  How do I do it?  Remote controls?  Do they really reach that far, even in RF?

You can get IR extenders that run over cat5/cat6, or use RF. I wouldn't do either. My media server that gathers in all the content is in my study. I have a separate HTPC in my home theater in the basement than does all the home theater playing, pulling it's media off the shared drives on the media server upstairs. In my daughter's room I have an ASUS O-play that likewise streams media off the server. Anywhere I have a network drop in the house, I can put a network capable device that pulls media off the media server.

I like having the media server separate from the HTPC devices themselves.

[Flake]

OK one last question - Im going to purchase and setup a home server.  Something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=59-321-014&ReviewNo=2010664&SortField=0&Pagesize=10&IsFeedbackTab=true&rdm=18#scrollHelpful1.

I was thinking I would put this in my basement near the area my internet service will enter the house and near the area all the network cables will come together.  So my question is, will I need to physically access this server or can all my access/maintenance be from remote computers within my home network?  For instance will I need to have a seperate monitor and keyboard hooked up to this thing or like I said, can I just access and manage everything from the different computers on the network?  I guess I just maybe dont want to put this thing downstairs if I need to have regular physical access.

Thanks guys

[upprc04]

You should be OK to access it remotely.  When you first set it up you may want to have a keyboard/mouse/monitor hooked up to it directly.  But after it's setup, you should be able to power it up, plug it in to your network and be good to go.  I wouldn't plan on having a monitor/keyboard hooked up long term and just hook it up in case something happens where you can't access it remotely.

[saint]

OK one last question - Im going to purchase and setup a home server.  Something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=59-321-014&ReviewNo=2010664&SortField=0&Pagesize=10&IsFeedbackTab=true&rdm=18#scrollHelpful1.

I was thinking I would put this in my basement near the area my internet service will enter the house and near the area all the network cables will come together.  So my question is, will I need to physically access this server or can all my access/maintenance be from remote computers within my home network?  For instance will I need to have a seperate monitor and keyboard hooked up to this thing or like I said, can I just access and manage everything from the different computers on the network?  I guess I just maybe dont want to put this thing downstairs if I need to have regular physical access.

Thanks guys

Remote. I remote into my server and it's 1 foot from me  

www.tightvnc.com

[massive88]

Conduit is the way to go.  I had one installed for my projector into the attic, makes running new wires (recently switched from VGA to HDMI) and I wish I had a tube at every wiring point in the house.

[Blanka]

<bad in tech inglish>what is conduit</bad in tech inglish>

[MonMotha]

<bad in tech inglish>what is conduit</bad in tech inglish>

Basically, pipe that you run wires and such through rather than just running them directly through walls and such.

Also, seconded on the conduit.  Run everything down into your basement or up into your attic.  It costs a little more, but you can upgrade to CAT32768 when it comes out easily.

(and such)

[Ed_McCarron]

but you can upgrade to CAT32768 when it comes out easily.

That spec comes out next year, I understand.

I use fiber at work, but not to the desktop. Are your maintenance issues higher with the fiber at all?

Slightly different usage -- mine is mainly industrial, in water plants, not to a users desk.  Not much moving once it's installed.

In a previous life when I installed network cabling, we only did fiber backbones and horizontal runs -- the last run from cabinet to desktop was still copper.  The cleaning crews chew up patch cords every night -- can you imagine what they'd do to glass?

That said, I've abused the same fiber patch cord on my tester for a few years -- and it still works even after being repeatedly shoved into the case.  Thats with ST connectors -- I hear that SC are a bit more prone to damage.  I also use connectors with a prepolished end and index matching gel -- the glass is a -bit- more protected, IMHO.

[Blanka]

Basically, pipe that you run wires and such through rather than just running them directly through walls and such.

American paper-houses thing thus.
Here pipes are obligatory, and with non-hollow walls very practical to get the wire under the stuco anyway.

[Flake]

How does one connect a server to the internet AND to my workstations?  Can access to both go through one ethernet cable? 

If so how would that work? 

For instance, lets say I have AT&T uverse internet coming into the basement.  All my ethernet ports (2 for each room) are running from each room down to the basement where the internet services comes in.  If I were to place my server in the basement next to the centralized ethernet ports and internet service, what would be the recommended connections/setup for all rooms to have access to both the internet and server via wired connection and have the best possible speed to each?

[upprc04]

How does one connect a server to the internet AND to my workstations?  Can access to both go through one ethernet cable? 

If so how would that work? 

For instance, lets say I have AT&T uverse internet coming into the basement.  All my ethernet ports (2 for each room) are running from each room down to the basement where the internet services comes in.  If I were to place my server in the basement next to the centralized ethernet ports and internet service, what would be the recommended connections/setup for all rooms to have access to both the internet and server via wired connection and have the best possible speed to each?

Your internet service should be coming in through a modem.  You should connect that modem to a router which will share the internet connection with several computers.  All the computers/workstations should be connected to the router.  This will put all your computers on a private network and all will have access to the internet.

[saint]

How does one connect a server to the internet AND to my workstations?  Can access to both go through one ethernet cable? 

If so how would that work? 

For instance, lets say I have AT&T uverse internet coming into the basement.  All my ethernet ports (2 for each room) are running from each room down to the basement where the internet services comes in.  If I were to place my server in the basement next to the centralized ethernet ports and internet service, what would be the recommended connections/setup for all rooms to have access to both the internet and server via wired connection and have the best possible speed to each?

Install a switch, connect the switch to the router. Use gigabit switches, they're cheap enough now.

Internet_Connection<----->Router_(wired_or_wireless_doesn't_matter)<----->Switch<----->Household_ethernet_cabling_to_rooms<----->computer_or_switch

[Flake]

So if my server and workstation/HTPC computers can all connect to each other and access the internet service via one ethernet cable why would anyone recommend installing more than one wired ethernet connection in a room?

[saint]

Note - I added switches to the mix because most Internet routers have:

1. A limited number of ports available to plug in computers, and you are going to have drops in every room outnumbering the amount of available ports in the router. You could go to the basement and unplug/replug as you move things around the house, but a switch with enough ports means you don't have to.

2. Most routers have 100 meg connections for the computers I believe. If you are going to move video around the house to/from the server, you're better off with gigabit connections.  Traffic between a computer in the house and the server will be Computer<---->switch<---->Server at gigabit speeds, instead of Computer<----->router<----->Server at 100 meg speeds. Traffic to the Internet will be Computer<----->Switch<----->Router<----->Internet.

[saint]

With Ethernet cabling you can do more than just run computer traffic. One ethernet drop is for a computer, one for a phone, maybe a second drop for a second computer, another ethernet drop possibly for running video or audio, etc. Cat6 cabling is very versatile.

[Flake]

Note - I added switches to the mix because most Internet routers have:

1. A limited number of ports available to plug in computers, and you are going to have drops in every room outnumbering the amount of available ports in the router. You could go to the basement and unplug/replug as you move things around the house, but a switch with enough ports means you don't have to.

2. Most routers have 100 meg connections for the computers I believe. If you are going to move video around the house to/from the server, you're better off with gigabit connections.  Traffic between a computer in the house and the server will be Computer<---->switch<---->Server at gigabit speeds, instead of Computer<----->router<----->Server at 100 meg speeds. Traffic to the Internet will be Computer<----->Switch<----->Router<----->Internet.

Thanks Saint, perfect explanation this is what I needed to know.

[saint]

So if my server and workstation/HTPC computers can all connect to each other and access the internet service via one ethernet cable why would anyone recommend installing more than one wired ethernet connection in a room?

One other thought, is my earlier point about having ethernet drops on both sides of a room so you have some future flexibility in re-arranging the room.

[boykster]

Run more than you think you'll need - you'll find uses for it