Sho Kosugi!

[eds1275]

So I am a pretty hardcore Sho Kosugi fan. I think his acting is terrible, and I don't watch his films for his acting skills or even the story, I think he's in the greatest fight scenes [even choreographs alot of them], and even his motion capture in Tenchu: Stealth Assassins was pretty badass.

Now, I am aware that he is not an actual "ninja", but the man has worked with martial arts his whole life, became All Japan Karate Champ at the age of 19, and been into all sorts of other fighting styles as well. I'd say that's a pretty good accomplishment. I even read somewhere on the internet that he has a school for various arts called the Sho Kosugi Institute. I'd say that his lifetime of achievements is worthy of respect. Except for Ninja Assassins. The movie was pretty good until they snuck up on the ninjas with hummers and helicopters.

I myself was drawn into the 80's martial arts craze and invested years of my life into Kung Fu, mainly because of him.

I find that other martial artists [I don't even consider myself one anymore actually] I know despise him, and plenty of them get downright nasty and juvenile resorting to *gasp* name calling and such. I have this one friend in particular [teaches bujinkan as a side job] who goes on a boring and rehearsed sounding rant every time he sees the martial arts section of my movie selection. I have to remind him that Sho Kosugi has worked with martial arts his whole life and didn't resort to Real Estate.

Anyone else love his fighting? Love his acting for the cheese that it is? I personally think that the low budget 80's movies had more to them than many of today's movies that are heavy on special effects to cover up the weak story lines.

[Ginsu Victim]

I love Ninja III: The Domination. It's such cheese! I have the other two movies, but I've never gotten around to watching them.

[eds1275]

Did you watch that one because it's got the 80's "hot chick" on the front?

[Ginsu Victim]

I grew up on it. It used to come on Showtime constantly back in the day.

[Benevolance]

REVENGE OF THE NINJA!

I had to look up the actor to see what he'd done, because I didn't recognize the name. I grew up watching his first couple films over and over; those were the only martial arts films our local video store carried. I didn't realize he was in Ninja Assassins. I wanted to see that movie anyway.

[jamesjones626]

i never heard of him but i gotta check out the films.  Anyone a fan of the american ninja series?  oh man........im not even going to go into the cheese acting in that.  I remmember as a kid i seen a film called American Samurai, and when i seen it i thought it was so bad ass.  Now that im 30 i watched it agian, and i laughed and how terrible the acting was.  There was a scene were then guy gets his arm cut off them killed, but a few scenes later they show him in the background practicing.

[Xiaou2]

I just tried to watch 2 clips of his supposed "best" fight scenes, and I couldnt take it.
Half way in, I had to stop them, cause it was so cheezy, unrealitic, poorly done.. that
it was making me ill.

 He has poor timing, poor accuracy..  too poor for film IMOP.


 If you are talking old Kungfu Movies, far better to praise a man like Gorden Liu.
Hes not only a well trained martial artists, but he is also a great actor.  His movies
have a lot of great comedic moments, yet not too far like Chan. He often also
teaching some fighting principles as well.

 His timing is flawless.  Hits are within proper ranges. His footwork & body structure
are correct.  He can be pretty fast, even though they usually do a timed-beat
sequence (so non-martial arts people can see the moves better).   He used high and
low kicks, stop kicks, advanced dual hand defensive tactics, chi-na grappling, pressure
point striking, animal styles, and incredible weapons play sequences.

 My favorite being "The 36th Chamber of Shaolin" (english dubs, merely cause they
are a little more comedic)  because of the great training sequences & comedy.
(However, many of his other films contain a lot more fight scenes)

 Heres some great clips:

 

[eds1275]

 

[NiN^_^NiN]

The 36th Chamber of Shaolin

I recently watched this and LOVE IT

Got all the ones in the series and also the original movie that inspired it because it was such a good movie

[Xiaou2]

Good man     36th Chambers is a Martial Arts Classic.  A true must see / own.

  I think that was my first introduction to Gordon Liu,  and I also watched just about
everything else I could find that had him in it.   There are very few artists who even
come close to his range and abilities.

 Have you seen fist and guts?   There are some really cool scenes in there... like when
two were trying to steal the same object in a gaurded house.  Every time they would hit
each other... they would put their hand over the guys mouth so that the Yell would be
silenced    They also were battleing each other while constantly trying to get the
package from each other...  and finally, keep things from knocking over (catching
falling cups and things with their feet for example).


Btw-
Sorry Eds,  but you stated Best fight scenes... and IMOP, his do not even come close.

 I mean, didnt even mention the obvious greats such as Jackie Chan in
Drunken Master 2.   Jet Li in Twin Warriors.  Tony Jaa in Ong Bak.  The Bourn movie fight
choreography.. and so many countless more.

---

 A side note... Its Amazing to see Gorden Liu use the Chinese Steel sectional whip
on film. (in the Fist & Guts clip I posted)   I dont think Ive ever seen that weapon used
on film for anything but forms. Even if that thing was made of rubber, coated with tin-foil,
that thing would still be dangerous and hurt like hell if it landed.  And they go at it
at good speed!  (you cant swing a flexible weapon slow, or it will just go limp)
The flexible weapons are in fact some of the hardest to wield.  (especially Rope Dart)

 FYI:  Gorden Liu played 2 major roles in the  Kill Bill  movies.  1) Pai Mai. 
]2) One of the Crazy 88's.  (I believe he also did other action work as well)

[Ginsu Victim]

Yes, yes, Gordon Liu is awesome (I love 36th Chamber of Shaolin and plenty of other Shaw Bros movies -- I have a good sized kung fu collection), but don't come in here and threadshit. This is about the cheesy Sho Kosugi films. No one said he was the best ever. It was just an appreciation thread.

[Malenko]

I just tried to watch 2 clips of his supposed "best" fight scenes, and I couldnt take it.
Half way in, I had to stop them, cause it was so cheezy, unrealitic, poorly done.. that
it was making me ill.

 He has poor timing, poor accuracy..  too poor for film IMOP.

Now ask me if I'm surprised? Do you ever just shut up, suspend reality, and try to enjoy a movie? Ginsu, all he DOES is threadcrap every single ---smurfing--- post.
"No no I took Karate in the 5th grade, his jump kick is so poorly done I had to go deathpunch a baby"

Xauiou2, can you break it down for just how unrealistic the Karate Kid Part 2 was? Know what ruined TMNT 2 for me? When splinter quotes the vanilla ice rap at the end, I mean he wasnt even in the club scene to hear it, I need to go throw up because of it.

[Ginsu Victim]

Ginsu, all he DOES is threadcrap every single ---smurfing--- post.

Are you sure, because he seems to think his posts add to the conversation

Wake up and smell the Xiaou2.

[eds1275]

There isn't enough eye-rolling emoticons.

[Ginsu Victim]

There isn't enough eye-rolling emoticons.

Then you just do this instead

[NiN^_^NiN]

lol uses his own guts to strangle the guy

Metacafe - Online Video Entertainment - Free video clips for your enjoyment

[jamesjones626]

Nice vids Xiaou2, but if YOU WANT ME TO SHOW YOU TOUGH, ILL SHOW YOU TOUGH!

[GalagaFan74]

Having just rewatched Revenge and Domination, I had to reflect on how cool I thought these movies were when I was a kid.  It was movies like this and the American Ninja series that had me and a friend making our own "Ninja" weapons.  We used to glue nails around nuts and then wrap tape around the nut to balance the makeshift throwing star.  Very effective.  Timing...pffft...what did a kid care about timing?    Anyone recognize the girl from Domination?  She was the lead actress in the Breakin' movies.

[Ginsu Victim]

Without looking her up, I believe it was Lucinda Dickey, who sometimes looks like Linda Hamilton.

[GalagaFan74]

Without looking her up, I believe it was Lucinda Dickey, who sometimes looks like Linda Hamilton.

Yep, she was chosen for the Ninja part because of her dance skills in Breakin'.

Now that I'm home, I can see the videos for some of the old Kung Fu flicks.  As I said as a kid I didn't care how choreographed fight scenes were Kung Fu movies looked cool, but realistically no one fights like that.  IMHO the lack of timing Sho displayed is more realistic than the timed sequences of the older Kung Fu movies.

[Havok]

Best Kung Fu scene ever:

[Ginsu Victim]

I'm a big fan of Jackie Chan vs Benny "The Jet" Urquidez in Wheels on Meals. The movie itself isn't that great, but this fight at the end is awesome.

[eds1275]

Revenge of the Ninjas' playground fight scene is without a doubt one of the most entertaining fight scenes ever. Stupid, ridiculous, hilarious, and they integrated the playground equipment nicely.

[Xiaou2]

The meals on wheels scene is a classic.

 Jackie is fighting  Benny "The Jet" Urquidez in that scene. (A pro kickboxer)
I believe Ive heard that Benny got a little too rough with Chan, and Chan got fed
up and outright asked him if he wanted to Fight right there on the spot.

is more realistic than the timed sequences of the older Kung Fu movies.

 The thing is, there are and were people who fought Like those films.  The only
difference is that there is no 'beat-pauses'.   If you can see past the beat pauses,
you can glean much more depth of combat... and actually learn some interesting
techniques.  Stuff that you will never see a guy like Sho, Van Damn, etc.. do.

 Real good fighters play like a chess game.  One guy I sparred had about 7 various
styles under his belt. From memory: JKD, some Wing Chun, TKD, Shaun Fa, Shaolin
5 Animal styles, Mantis, and much more.  He would do things like intentionally leave
his chest wide open as bait.  If you were dumb enough to hit him there, he had
the counter immediately.  If you went to the side... he had the responses for that too,
and advantage of leverages & timing.  He could adapt on the fly as well... but all the
while, he was 3 moves ahead in-between things.

 I couldnt seem to get in, and when I tried to use my superior speed or to reach in... I
barely touched him, and he would counter and send me flying across the mat from his
solid rooted strikes.

 I later would realize my errors.  One was that I was too used to fighting people
who were not on this level. I was too Impatient, expecting to gain advantages
easily and immediately because of this.  I started to go outside the rules of my system,
reaching for hits... which compromised my structure / stability / leverage.. and he
immediately took great advantage of that time after vicious time.  I thought that
if I used my faster speed, I could blow past his ability to trap/redirect me. Wrong.
His moves were always in the right places to gain leverages.. so no matter how
fast I was, I always was at a loss...  and now closer to him for him to do damage on.
He also went into full on Traditional Kungfu modes.. in Arrow & horse stances at times.
I never thought that stuff would Ever have a change of working in a high speed &
pressured situations.  Again I would be proven wrong.  He could move in and out
of various stances quickly... as well as launching Nasty counters while in the process.
There was a lot of tricks/traps/pitfalls in those moves... basically setting you up for the kill.
(getting you to try to attack them in some way because you Think they cant possibly
move fast enough, or have a weakness in some way. They barely move, and now you are
perfect range for them to attack... while you are not)

 Painful as it was, after Sparring with him for an hour, it made me a 100x better as a
fighter.

 

 When you spar someone like that, you start to realize just how serious those old
Kungfu fighters were.  They trained and fought most hours of their days, their skills
and techniques perfected, and deep as the ocean... Landing single hits on them would
be no quick and easy task.

 You then go back to the old movies... and you start to see things as if they were
sped up and real... and can see the cunning and reasons behind the chosen moves.
Blocks, Redirect, counters, anti-counters, Absorbs, Joint locks, Lock Escapes,
Anti-Escape moves, Grapple Counters, Grapple Anti-Counters, Kicks, Sweeps,
Absorbing Kick, Redirecting Kick, Anti-Sweep kick, and so much more.

 Most people are familiar with one dimensional "One-Step" fighting, so they just may
never understand what is being shown.  One step is basically: Step in and attack when
there is a moment of timing...  and if stopped, retreat.   But this method relies mostly on
speed or brute crashing force.  Some Traditional Kungfu uses this too, but, in addition,
they use sticking (feeling what the ops intent is by touching & sticking gently to the
limbs), bridge destruction (using/creating advantages of leverage to gain advantage to
advance close without harm), Setups (make the op react to a half-range punch. when
they try to intercept it.. you then have a bridge with them, and can use this to grab,trap,
redirect, stick, etc.)   There is far too much more to mention in this post... so Ill stop there.

[GalagaFan74]

All I'm saying is in today's world of MMA Kung Fu fighters have no chance.  I always take an oppurtunity to talk with our Def. Tactics trainer at the prison I work at.  He's trained under the best, and trained in most of the major fighting styles.  He began concentrating on Krav Maga, Brazillian Jujitsu, and Muy Thai early on because styles that relied on kick, punch, distance, and timing where no match for most grappling styles.  He even rewrote the Division's Def. Tac. training because the old style was based off various holds from Tae Kwon Do, where the attacker had to do a certain thing for the hold to be effective, ie. perfect world situations.  With his method you could counter most anything no matter what angle the knife was coming from, or where the person was charging from.  Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung-Fu while effective when fighting was fair, are pretty useless in todays no holds barred bar fight.

[Xiaou2]

He's trained under the best

 Really?!  Mere Opinion.

Kung-Fu while effective when fighting was fair, are pretty useless in todays no holds barred bar fight.

 Bwahaha!

First off "Which" Kungfu?  Theres:

Mantis
Eagle Claw
Shaolin (20 yrs worth of material)
Tai Chi (several versions)
Wing Chun (Close range combat)
Shuai Jiao (Chinese Wrestling)
Animal Styles: Dragon, Snake, Crane, Tiger, Leopard (others)
Chi Na (grappling / locks)

 And about 2000 other varients.

because styles that relied on kick, punch, distance, and timing where no match for most grappling styles.

 LOL.

 Such Ignorance.  Almost all Kungfu have Grappling in it.  Something like Eagle Claw is
Full of Superior Grappling techs.  Chi Na is an entire system of grappling.

 But me, I do Wing Chun.  WC doesnt hold on to any limb for more than a split second
in most cases.  Its more about knocking the guy out, breaking limbs, vital strikes.
 
 As for your comment about strikers -vs- grapplers.. its completely untrue / flawed.

 As of this date Ive knocked out 2 high level Jujitsu fighters when they tried to enter
in range to grapple me.   Ive nearly broken a KookSulWan (basically TaeKwando)
fighters knee when he tried to rush in and strike me... with one single Stomp Kick,
in 1 second flat.  He lay crying in tears on the ground for 6min, and didnt fully recover
for a month time... and I only put about 15% power into it. (he was also double my mass)

 The plain and simple fact is that in order for anyone to get close enough to grab
you... they have to step in range of a strike.   Many grapplers have little tricks and
faints they use to get a person to react poorly so they can rush in.  It dont work
on a good fighter.  But you wont see good fighters play games on tv.  In fact, most
wont even spar, because like myself, have injured someone bad at least once, when
losing temper control to Prove something.

 Anyone who spars a WC guy will walk away thinking it was easy, and WC was crap.
Why?  Because the WC fighter isnt going to use a stomp kick to spar.  He will change
it to a 'Stop' kick only.  He wont unleash Fajin power of his punch.  He wont slam his
elbow into your temple.  Hes being nice... and as a result, he will look bad... and you
will be just as ignorant as ever.   Its pretty much the same with most of these
styles.

 In fact, you are also completely wrong about 'Fair', as well.  Kungfu has Dirty / Nasty
tricks.  Making you think something is open... only to Screw you up if you go for the
bait.  Its probably the most dirty fighting Ive seen in any style... and I know a lot more
than Kungfu.  Its also Vicious.   My buddy described a Tiger sequence, where the first
hits were to set the Ops jaw in just the right angle, so the 3rd hit would take it clear
off its hinge.  Another Tiger guy told me that one of their training methods is to
have to rip a garden hose out from under Carpet that is fixed to a board.  The stuff is
no joke.  (Me?  I train my low stomp kicks on 4" diameter metal poles... and my punch
on a hanging bag filled with metal bb's.)

 If you think you are gona rush into a good fighter without getting seriously injured,
you are the biggest fool on the Planet.  It just so happens that there are a lot
of Crappy fighters out there...  but you meet the right one, and he will nail you every
time... and you will be lucky if you ever wake up again, if you were actually serious
about harming them.

 

With his method you could counter most anything no matter what angle the knife was coming from

 Ive met knife fighter instructors.  You know what the guy said "If you see a knife, RUN".
He also happens to work in a hospital, where he sees knife wounds constantly.
The best knife fighter, will usually fail.  Most All the knife defense crap is a joke.  Your
better off using a jacket / pants than to counter hand to hand.  One slice & its game over,
cause you will bleed to death before you make it to emergency.

you could counter most anything

 That right there tells you something.  The guy just rewrote his ideas.. and now he
Thinks hes perfected something.  Ill bet he will be re-writing the book again.   The guy
may have all the good intentions... but he has as much knowledge and experience as
a drop of water in the ocean.
 
 Imagine, this man has never seen / fought in wars, constantly fighting off bandits.
He hasnt been training 8hrs a day, 7 days a week since hes 5.   In his entire short
life, he thinks he has mastered things... and yet, compared to 2000yrs of development?
Imagine how many lives and man-hours went into developing Shaolin Knowledge?!
Let alone the many other variants.  

 I can tell you that I myself have been pretty Ignorant in my past, so I can
understand.  What we do not experience for ourselves, we tend to write off.
But reality will set in quickly, if he ever runs into the real deal... such as I have.

 BTW - I too have fought against almost every style.  The hardest ones to fight
have been the good Kungfu stylist.  I used to spar at least once a week,
(trained every day, night & day) and attended many open-house sparring events
at local schools.  Each event had 1hr of nearly non-stop sparring.  3 min rounds,
30 sec switch partners.

[jamesjones626]

Didn't the Gracie family destroy a bunch of kung fu, kempo, karate, and other martial art masters?

[jamesjones626]

[Xiaou2]

Didn't the Gracie family destroy a bunch of kung fu, kempo, karate, and other martial art masters?

 The Gracies chose a bunch of amateurs who didnt have any game.   One guy,
Jason Delucia (video above), was supposedly a Kungfu master.  What a Joke!  The guy
was taught a bunch of BS that was not even close to combat kungfu.  Basically, he was a
kickboxer, and a bad one at that.

 The Gracies wont step up and take on anyone they know is of high caliber, cause they
are smart.  It was all a dog and pony show, to lead the mindless sheep.

 In fact, the gracies went on a joint venture with a Wing Chun teacher, doing
dual seminars.  They were trying to learn some Wing Chun... but I dont think they
had the patience for it.

 I also believe they were the ones who help put together the UFC.  Again, creating
a system which gave them an advantage in the ring.. and having amateurs who have
little real experience in a ring.

 Not to mention, Gracies have NOTHING for Multiple attackers.   No weapons, or
anti-weapon stuff.  

 According to little things I read, they basically took the stuff from a certain version of
Jujitsu.   I dont know how accurate it is.. but its probably true.

 In addition to my own experience Knocking out grapplers,  Ive heard reports from one
of my teachers that one of the bigger names in WC was on a military base, and some
guy was trash talking about how BJJ could destroy every art.  The WC guy asked the
BJJ guy if he wanted to prove it.   He was shaken, but accepted... and BJJ got Stomped.

 BJJ isnt an answer.  Its not even a Full art.  Its mostly a bag of BS.  And if you try and
use that crap on the streets, you will be lucky to survive.

[jamesjones626]

Didn't the Gracie family destroy a bunch of kung fu, kempo, karate, and other martial art masters?

 The Gracies chose a bunch of amateurs who didnt have any game.   One guy,
Jason Delucia (video above), was supposedly a Kungfu master.  What a Joke!  The guy
was taught a bunch of BS that was not even close to combat kungfu.  Basically, he was a
kickboxer, and a bad one at that.

 The Gracies wont step up and take on anyone they know is of high caliber, cause they
are smart.  It was all a dog and pony show, to lead the mindless sheep.

 In fact, the gracies went on a joint venture with a Wing Chun teacher, doing
dual seminars.  They were trying to learn some Wing Chun... but I dont think they
had the patience for it.

 I also believe they were the ones who help put together the UFC.  Again, creating
a system which gave them an advantage in the ring.. and having amateurs who have
little real experience in a ring.

 Not to mention, Gracies have NOTHING for Multiple attackers.   No weapons, or
anti-weapon stuff.  

 According to little things I read, they basically took the stuff from a certain version of
Jujitsu.   I dont know how accurate it is.. but its probably true.

 In addition to my own experience Knocking out grapplers,  Ive heard reports from one
of my teachers that one of the bigger names in WC was on a military base, and some
guy was trash talking about how BJJ could destroy every art.  The WC guy asked the
BJJ guy if he wanted to prove it.   He was shaken, but accepted... and BJJ got Stomped.

 BJJ isnt an answer.  Its not even a Full art.  Its mostly a bag of BS.  And if you try and
use that crap on the streets, you will be lucky to survive.

I do agree with you on a few points, one being BJJ cannot stomp every art. In my opinion i don't belive one art can stomp all, i think it has to do with the user.  Also i dont think it would be smart to use it on the streets because the person you may be confronting may have a few friends on the side that will blind side you when your wrestling on the ground.  I do belive that it is a full art though, because of the combinations and the endless transitions.  Overall I belive one on one, the grappler is superior to the striker though.

[Xiaou2]

BTW - I have to laugh at Deluca.  (along with everyone else)

 What kind of IDIOT launches a SikdeKick as an initial bridge! (the slowest and
easiest to read!) The Grappler was using a narrow stance, well covered, and agile with
the lead leg.  He had no target!   Then, he does the same thing 3 times in a row.. as if
somehow the BJJ guy was not gona catch on.  lol

 High & Round kicking is the worst thing you can do against a grappler.  Round kicks are
slower, and easier to see the windup (telegraph), and also easier to deflect. 

 A side stance is also not smart, as you are half way to giving your back away...
and have no defense / offense  on the entire side.

 The grappler isnt completely dumb.  He used a WC principle, where the weight is on
the rear hip... leaving the lead leg fast as lightning to move and intercept.
---

 This is why One-Step sparring/fighting fails.  Its rare you are going to Time a shot and
land it against a smart op.   In order to land, you have to have cleared the defenses
FIRST. 
 
 Even IF he chose to use a different higher-percentage strike to commit with... its always
high risk. (counters / Blocks / Parries / Absorbs ...etc.)

 Intelligent interception is where the advantage comes from... and Jason has none of
that here.  He has not learned any depth of real Kungfu.

[Xiaou2]

Overall I belive one on one, the grappler is superior to the striker though.

 You can believe whatever you want.  That does not make anything more or less
true.

 Grappling serves a purpose.  Its in almost all Kungfu styles.   But the Chinese systems
dont instruct the Students to DIVE in and grab.. hoping that the student will be
lucky enough not to suffer a serious or fatal blow.

 If you were trying to break into a Guarded Castle...  would you just pole vault over
the wall Hoping to score entry without getting Speared/Arrowed  on the way in?
Its Lunacy.

 Chinese arts have found, thru Real combat / war, and countless man hours of
practice and study... that you need to account for all ranges properly and safely.

 In order to get good at all ranges... you will need to learn & perfect a LOT more.
This takes longer, but can and does produce a Superior fighter.

 IF BJJ was the best in real combat, the Chinese would have found that out
a millenia ago.  Same for Chi-Na and other Grappling inside of Kungfu.  You cant
grapple without entering dangerous waters... and without excellent entry
and defense, those people were injured or killed.

 If I teach someone to defend themselves... the first thing they are going to
learn besides the foundational stuff... is to actually be able to survive attacks
safely. Re-Direction, Parrys, Absorbs, blocks..etc.   Because if you have a crappy
defense, your offense isnt going to mean crap.

 This is exactly why you see top level Pro MMA fighters getting knocked out by
Rookie fighters.  They have great grapple skill, but the Worst defense skills hands
down.  If they reverse the order of operations... they might actually start getting
somewhere.

[Xiaou2]

i think it has to do with the user.

 In a lot of cases "Yes".  But here is the deal.. You can give someone a spoon to dig
with ... or a shovel.   The guy with the shovel will have a definite advantage.
If the guy with the spoon is lightning fast, and the shovel dude is slow & weak..
the spoon man may win.  But give the spoon man the shovel, and he will Advance even
more.

 The spoon / shovel  relating to Tools.  And Tools, relating to actual moves and methods
within each art.  There are superior tools and ways of doing things.

 Plain and Simple, a Boxer could beat a Kungfu man... but if you give that Boxer
kungfu lessons, his skills as a fighter will be increased.

  Also i dont think it would be smart to use it on the streets because the person you may be confronting may have a few friends on the side that will blind side you when your wrestling on the ground.

 Exactly.  That is why ground work is considered a Last Resort.  You cant move
well on the ground, and multiples will mess you up.  You need to be good on your
feet... and that requires very good defensive & offensive skills.. along with solid
footwork and stability.  Its easy to dump someone..  or to dive to the ground... but
a whole other level of skill to remain standing, while taking on high pressure
situations effectively.

 Also, the reality of the ground is that it may happen over rough concrete or pavement.
You can Easily chip your own hip bone while trying to take someone to the ground...
or merely by rolling around on that ground.   There could also be sharp glass, large
rocks, or other dangerous items to fall / roll on (or be piked up).
 
 Btw - I got deflected slightly & landed off the mat fighting a Capoera guy once,
landing lightly on my hip side.  It was so painful, that after I was able to stand back up.. I
 could not raise my leg more than 3 inchs off the floor without severe unbearable pain... 
which is one more reason why I know the dangers of hard ground.

I do belive that it is a full art though, because of the combination's and the endless transitions.

 

 Its a sub-set of fighting.  Ground Fighting is one aspect of a fight.
A full art has nearly all ranges and aspects of combat within it.  From standing, offense,
defense, grappling, weapons..etc.

 Wing Chun itself is actually a Reduced art.  It was formed by taking Some of the
best techs and removing almost all else.  They did this, because they didnt have
20 yrs to develop rebel fighters.  They made it so you could learn and perfect in about
5yrs tops.  Its fairly complete for its purpose (to kill rather than submit the enemy)
 .. but even its  lacking in certain aspects. 

because of the combination's and the endless transitions

 This says nothing about ranges of combat.  Only about the way things work on the
ground.   In Wing Chun, they have a drill called Chi Sao.  Its where 2 people touch
wrist points, and roll back and forth.  As they do this, each person is feeling the
structure for any weaknesses... or will create stress to provoke weaknesses. They
will then react in ways to take advantage of this, and go for strikes.  Its both attack
and defense in nature.  However... Chi Sao,  while endless in possible transitions
and combination's, is only a drill or sub-set of WingChun.   Even though it
translates to real fighting, its still not a complete art.. only a part, ...or part of
fighting.

[Malenko]

do not feed the Xiaou2!


Thannk you Douch-Fu Master for derailing yet another thread. This WAS a respect thread to Sho Kosugi and now its a 15% deathstop thread about you.

[NiN^_^NiN]

 Have you seen fist and guts?   There are some really cool scenes in there... like when
two were trying to steal the same object in a gaurded house.  Every time they would hit
each other... they would put their hand over the guys mouth so that the Yell would be
silenced    They also were battleing each other while constantly trying to get the
package from each other...  and finally, keep things from knocking over (catching
falling cups and things with their feet for example).

I can't find a copy of it locally and the *cough* online sources don't have enough people

[NiN^_^NiN]

 Have you seen fist and guts?   There are some really cool scenes in there... like when
two were trying to steal the same object in a gaurded house.  Every time they would hit
each other... they would put their hand over the guys mouth so that the Yell would be
silenced    They also were battleing each other while constantly trying to get the
package from each other...  and finally, keep things from knocking over (catching
falling cups and things with their feet for example).

This movie has been stuck at 60.2% for days now just found someone uploaded it to youtube fully tho

I can't find a copy of it locally and the *cough* online sources don't have enough people