TV vs Wells Gardner D9800

[ATWindsor]

I have read the FAQ, its very informative, and objective, but i want some more subjective views on my monitor choice. As of today I have 3 options for using a screen in my arcade-machine.

1. I have a sony kx27ps1 laying around. It is a weird monitor-thingy from the eighties.
+ Cheap, Reasonble good quality
- Only 50 Hz, old, so it might break, and then what?

2. Buy a 100 Hz 4:3 TV with a small frame (most have speakers an the like on the sides)
+ Cheap, Reasonably good quality
- Difficult to actually get a hold of.

3. Buying a wells gardner d9800
+ Best quality and inputs? 38khz, so should be able to run at 85 Hz., compact frame.
- Comparatively expensive, expensive to get to norway because of weight and size. Quality problems?

It said that arcade monitors give a more "authentic" experience. but frankly thats not all that important for me, I am more eager about the quality being good, the display being nice to watch. So what would you do in my situation? All the options are quite a hassle to replace, so i guess I put importance in that its a more or less permanent solution.

[wp34]

I can't speak to the D9800 as I don't have one---yet.  But when I was testing a TV (via component) I was very disappointed in how Vector games looked.  Asteroids and Tempest are a must for me and they looked horrible.  That was the deal breaker for me.

[Epyx]

It said that arcade monitors give a more "authentic" experience. but frankly thats not all that important for me, I am more eager about the quality being good, the display being nice to watch. So what would you do in my situation? All the options are quite a hassle to replace, so i guess I put importance in that its a more or less permanent solution.

I have a WG D9800 and used a component Sony 27" before that so definitely qualified to answer this...

THERE IS NO COMPARISON...the WG D9800 blows the living monkey snot out of a component tv...any day...all day...always.  With component or S Video you don't get  "I am more eager about the quality being good, the display being nice to watch". Both signals are interlaced and while acceptable a FAR ways off from a non-interlaced progressive arcade resolution.

You made the choice easy...you wanted quality...so I didn't even have to wade into the decasing a tv territory or compression etc.

As for vector games...on a crt my opinion is with a combination of high resolution and MAME tweaks you can get them looking "good"...never genuine, but good.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Does the D9800 work with the ActLabs USB Light Guns on MAME?  If so, which VGA box is required?

[lilshawn]

why would you need a VGA box for a monitor that supports VGA? the guns come with a box that "wedges" into the line to provide the timing signal.

[ATWindsor]

It said that arcade monitors give a more "authentic" experience. but frankly thats not all that important for me, I am more eager about the quality being good, the display being nice to watch. So what would you do in my situation? All the options are quite a hassle to replace, so i guess I put importance in that its a more or less permanent solution.

I have a WG D9800 and used a component Sony 27" before that so definitely qualified to answer this...

THERE IS NO COMPARISON...the WG D9800 blows the living monkey snot out of a component tv...any day...all day...always.  With component or S Video you don't get  "I am more eager about the quality being good, the display being nice to watch". Both signals are interlaced and while acceptable a FAR ways off from a non-interlaced progressive arcade resolution.

You made the choice easy...you wanted quality...so I didn't even have to wade into the decasing a tv territory or compression etc.

As for vector games...on a crt my opinion is with a combination of high resolution and MAME tweaks you can get them looking "good"...never genuine, but good.

Nice, thanks for the feedback. What kind of refresh rate are you running your D9800? And have you had any quality problems? THe thread about quality problems with WG-monitors concerns me a bit, seeing as its a mjaor hassle to replace it.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

why would you need a VGA box for a monitor that supports VGA? the guns come with a box that "wedges" into the line to provide the timing signal.

I have no idea what I need.  The site specifically says "This gun will need the VGA box to function."  I'm talking about the guns on this page: http://www.act-labs.com/products/gun1.htm

Is there a better choice for light guns?  I want to be able to play 2-player shooters like T2.

[Epyx]

Nice, thanks for the feedback. What kind of refresh rate are you running your D9800? And have you had any quality problems? THe thread about quality problems with WG-monitors concerns me a bit, seeing as its a mjaor hassle to replace it.

I now have two WG D9800 monitors. I can only speak for myself but one is just over a year old and has daily play and I have had zero issues...the first was used for almost 2 years and is now waiting to go into my next cab as a vertical and again it had no issues.

That thread is based on older WG monitors D9200...It is the WG thread that happens to be stickied but you can find just as many other manufacturers in this forum with issues (not stickied for whatever reason).  I ordered both of mine through Xgaming and they come with 1 year warranties.  XGaming WG D9800

They sync CGA/EGA/VGA so you get all 15khz arcade resolutions (almost all your classics and games up to the 90s), 25khz (Mortal Kombat etc) and of course 31khz games.  Using the tri-sync utility on Ultimarc's site you can run the VGA resolutions (640x480/800x600) non-interlaced so everything from old games to newer games will run non-interlaced. You won't get that from a non-SCART tv...on non-SCART tv everything is interlaced and gets compressed/squished/stretched to one resolution.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I was under the impression that T2 actually used analog sticks for the aiming in-game.

Is it possible to actually play this with light guns by means of an external script that translates 'position since last click' (assuming mouse-style input) to the relative movement of an analog input device?

I'm sure that could be scripted with something like GlovePIE http://glovepie.org/glovepie.php

[ATWindsor]

Nice, thanks for the feedback. What kind of refresh rate are you running your D9800? And have you had any quality problems? THe thread about quality problems with WG-monitors concerns me a bit, seeing as its a mjaor hassle to replace it.

I now have two WG D9800 monitors. I can only speak for myself but one is just over a year old and has daily play and I have had zero issues...the first was used for almost 2 years and is now waiting to go into my next cab as a vertical and again it had no issues.

That thread is based on older WG monitors D9200...It is the WG thread that happens to be stickied but you can find just as many other manufacturers in this forum with issues (not stickied for whatever reason).  I ordered both of mine through Xgaming and they come with 1 year warranties.  XGaming WG D9800

They sync CGA/EGA/VGA so you get all 15khz arcade resolutions (almost all your classics and games up to the 90s), 25khz (Mortal Kombat etc) and of course 31khz games.  Using the tri-sync utility on Ultimarc's site you can run the VGA resolutions (640x480/800x600) non-interlaced so everything from old games to newer games will run non-interlaced. You won't get that from a non-SCART tv...on non-SCART tv everything is interlaced and gets compressed/squished/stretched to one resolution.

Now I am abit confused? What is wrong with just setting a resolution on the PC, output it to the monitor, and run the games on that resolution with the maximum refresh possible? And why is refresh-rate connected to interlacing?

AtW

[lilshawn]

Nice, thanks for the feedback. What kind of refresh rate are you running your D9800? And have you had any quality problems? THe thread about quality problems with WG-monitors concerns me a bit, seeing as its a mjaor hassle to replace it.

I now have two WG D9800 monitors. I can only speak for myself but one is just over a year old and has daily play and I have had zero issues...the first was used for almost 2 years and is now waiting to go into my next cab as a vertical and again it had no issues.

That thread is based on older WG monitors D9200...It is the WG thread that happens to be stickied but you can find just as many other manufacturers in this forum with issues (not stickied for whatever reason).  I ordered both of mine through Xgaming and they come with 1 year warranties.  XGaming WG D9800

They sync CGA/EGA/VGA so you get all 15khz arcade resolutions (almost all your classics and games up to the 90s), 25khz (Mortal Kombat etc) and of course 31khz games.  Using the tri-sync utility on Ultimarc's site you can run the VGA resolutions (640x480/800x600) non-interlaced so everything from old games to newer games will run non-interlaced. You won't get that from a non-SCART tv...on non-SCART tv everything is interlaced and gets compressed/squished/stretched to one resolution.

Now I am abit confused? What is wrong with just setting a resolution on the PC, output it to the monitor, and run the games on that resolution with the maximum refresh possible? And why is refresh-rate connected to interlacing?

AtW

some people feel the need to run the games at their original resolutions instead of using the computer and monitor to upscale all the video to 640x408 or 800x600 or whatever the system runs at.

[Epyx]

Now I am abit confused? What is wrong with just setting a resolution on the PC, output it to the monitor, and run the games on that resolution with the maximum refresh possible? And why is refresh-rate connected to interlacing?

AtW

There is nothing wrong with it...it depends on what you are looking for.  Using a computer LCD or CRT monitor will give you a non-interlaced signal but it will be running the game not as it originally looked.  A TV without SCART (RGB) is a different matter...the signal will be interlaced (480i) and regardless of the games original resolution or refresh rate they will all be sent out at the same signal.

So if you want a non eyestrain gaming affair but aren't caught up with authentic graphics or resolutions...by all means run your games on a PC Monitor (LCD or CRT) but if you want the authentic resolutions and refresh rates the WG D9800 or other multi-Syncing RGB Presentation monitor/SCART tv/arcade monitor are the only way to go.

To explain your initial question...

Older 15khz games had pixel resolutions of less than 336x240.  I don't have the exact resolutions in front of me but take a game like Black Tiger which is a 15khz game.  If memory serves Black Tiger runs at 256x224 (or 240) non-interlaced.  More info on Progressive/Interlaced etc at -> Progressive Scan Wiki

So if you were using a TV with S-Video or Component they run that PC signal (regardless of what resolution it originally was) at 480i or interlaced which is say 640x480.  So two things happen...the progressive signal of the original Black Tiger game is lost (replaced with an interlaced flickery signal)...AND...the game is now upscaled to 640x480 and is no longer pixel perfect (perspective and graphics are usually skewed.  I had a link of Rygar intro on S-Video versus Arcade and the difference is night and day...squished, washed up and flickery. The last deadly sin is that the colours are usually off...sometimes in minor ways and other times way off.

Is it playable? Sure it is...ok? Sure...great? Hell no.

Remember the example I provided with a PC Monitor? Well unlike the TV the signal will likely be progressive...so not flickery...however the monitors won't be able to display those original low resolutions so again they upscale them...end result? On an LCD monitor...blocky pixels (unless direct 3d is used but that is another story) but perspective is still lost and messed up.  However, colours were often fudged on older arcade monitors...like spy hunter...they might mix two colours in proximity..red with hot pink to get orange for example because of the way the arcade CRT beam worked it would look organge...on an LCD monitor it may look Hot pink because the trick the programmers used no longer works.

[urgeboy]

I went to Wells Garders' web page to try to purchase the D9800 but it said "no products avaliable at this time" when I clicked on the D9800...any idea whats up with that? They didn't stop production of it did they?

[bpark42]

I went to Wells Garders' web page to try to purchase the D9800 but it said "no products avaliable at this time" when I clicked on the D9800...any idea whats up with that? They didn't stop production of it did they?

It has been discontinued.