What's the deal with all the pit bulls?

[LLUncoolJ]

So the kids want a dog...fairly common theme I imagine. However, due to life style, limited fenced in area, newer hardwood floors in the house, and young children, I am fairly picky on the breed. Ideally, we would like to get an English Bulldog, but it seems unlikely due to the cost (they start at give or take $1000).

So I've been checking craigslist and the local classifieds. WTF is up with all of the pit bulls? At any given time there seems to be hundreds of these dogs for sale/adoption. Since I have small children and enjoy not having my home owners insurance cancelled, this breed is not even in consideration. Obviously they have a reputation for being a vicious breed, so why the popularity?

[LLUncoolJ]

So it's all Ron Mexico EERRRRRRRR Michael Vick wannabees and their dog fighting operations? What about all the "Sweet baby 1 year old pitbull for adoption...I hate to give her up...blah blah blah" ads?

[jamesjones626]

I am a owner of a blue nose pit and its a myth that there a mean breed of dog.  They only turn on you when they are abused or when they are trained to fight.  A lot of people give there pit gun powder mixed with meat because it makes them super aggressive and crazy.  There very popular because 1. they are a beautiful breed of dog, 2. they are very intimidating to people, 3. there very loyal and would never attack you unless you treat them poorly 4. If you get the right breed, they are very muscular and intimidate.  I have a 7, 5, and a 4 year old and my dog has always been good my kids.  The one thing about pitbulls is that you have to walk them at least once or twice a day because they are super active and need to get that energy out.  Oh and another reason there popular is becuase a lot of gang affilitated people own them as well.  I admit when i walk my dog by the stores around here, i get a kick on how scared they are of my dog even though he acts like a big puppy.  Whats weird is when white people see him they want to pet him or give him water, mexicans just move out of the way, and black people run.  In the end i love my dog and would reccomend that you get a pitbull and don't buy the crap the media sells you by telling you how dangerous they are, every animal has the potential to be dangerous.

[massive88]

I am a owner of a blue nose pit and its a myth that there a mean breed of dog. 

Breeds have tendencies, but generally dogs are pretty much a clean slate to be molded by their owners.  Even tempered docile Pits are not rare. 

Personally I have two basset hounds, and I also grew up with a pair of basset hounds.  The only negative with young kids and bassets is they might learn that they can do whatever they want to a dog without consequences (poke prod pull etc), which is basically true with most bassets, not necessarily true if they run into another dog.

[AtomSmasher]

A large number of Pit Bull attacks are from dogs who are described as gentle family dogs who one day randomly turned and attacked with no prior warning.  It's not a breed of dog I would ever want to have since they have a higher likelyhood to snap then almost all other breeds.

A year (or two, or three) ago there was a long thread on this board on this very topic.  It included lots of links to articles and a variety of viewpoints and is worth a read since this topic has already been thoroughly discussed here.

Decided to search for the original thread and came across it:   I'm amazed at how many people have the wrong idea...
and the followups:
Another pit bull attack - on another small child
Another pit bull attack - this time personal

[RayB]

You see lots of pitbull ads because there are lots of stupid people. There are certain types of people who feel bad-ass owning "tough" breeds. (Either that or they are mixed up in lifestyles requiring that kind of "protection").

And then there are the people saying they are so sweet andwould never do X Y or Z.   YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. You don't know what a dog is thinking and what can set it off. Any animal can get grumpy, or act differently, say when they are sick but not showing symptoms of an illness. How are you to know?

Then, they think that because the dog respects the "alpha" in the family (usually one or more of the adults) that OH they are so sweet and would NEVER harm my child. But if you leave the room, and you leave the dog with a baby or toddler, that dog is then the alpha. So you can't assume it will not harm the kid, especially when kids like poking and picking at animals.

Problem #2 with pitbulls. They have jaws that "lock". So so say it does bite for whatever reason that ANY dog could bite for. How do you get it to let go?

They also act differently when left with other dogs.


I've heard too many stories of pits or boxers left in a yard where a cat or squirrel made the mistake of coming into the yard and all that was left after was scraps and a bloody mess. Get a dog that doesn't have the instinct to kill.

[jamesjones626]

You see lots of pitbull ads because there are lots of stupid people. There are certain types of people who feel bad-ass owning "tough" breeds. (Either that or they are mixed up in lifestyles requiring that kind of "protection").

And then there are the people saying they are so sweet andwould never do X Y or Z.   YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. You don't know what a dog is thinking and what can set it off. Any animal can get grumpy, or act differently, say when they are sick but not showing symptoms of an illness. How are you to know?

Then, they think that because the dog respects the "alpha" in the family (usually one or more of the adults) that OH they are so sweet and would NEVER harm my child. But if you leave the room, and you leave the dog with a baby or toddler, that dog is then the alpha. So you can't assume it will not harm the kid, especially when kids like poking and picking at animals.

Problem #2 with pitbulls. They have jaws that "lock". So so say it does bite for whatever reason that ANY dog could bite for. How do you get it to let go?

They also act differently when left with other dogs.


I've heard too many stories of pits or boxers left in a yard where a cat or squirrel made the mistake of coming into the yard and all that was left after was scraps and a bloody mess. Get a dog that doesn't have the instinct to kill.

true any dog or any animal can go crazy you just have to get to know the animal like a person, my dog sleeps with our 2 cats, and he pee's on my neighbor chihuahuas that try to egg him on.  Not all dogs are like this of course, i remmember going to the pound before i got a dog and the dog was happy when he seen me, but f'n flipped out and was growling when he seen kids.  When i was a kid i got bit by a golden retriever who stole my sandwich (no i wasn't waiving it in front of him) and those dogs are suppose to be super friendly.  Bottom line get a dog you will love and treat it right and it will treat you right.

[jamesjones626]

A large number of Pit Bull attacks are from dogs who are described as gentle family dogs who one day randomly turned and attacked with no prior warning.  It's not a breed of dog I would ever want to have since they have a higher likelyhood to snap then almost all other breeds.

A year (or two, or three) ago there was a long thread on this board on this very topic.  It included lots of links to articles and a variety of viewpoints and is worth a read since this topic has already been thoroughly discussed here.

Decided to search for the original thread and came across it:   I'm amazed at how many people have the wrong idea...
and the followups:
Another pit bull attack - on another small child
Another pit bull attack - this time personal

You have to remmember to keep a pit sane you have to walk it atleast once a day, they build up energy fast and become restless.  For some of them when they become restless for to long and have so much energy built up is when they go nuts.  Like any animal weather you buy a bird or lizard, read about how to care for them.

[Ed_McCarron]

They have jaws that "lock".

Myth.  They can be stupidly stubborn and strong, but their jaws are no more 'lockable' than a Golden's.

Golden's have an insanely strong bite, if they ever care to use it.  Retrievers in general are bred to be mouth gentle.  Mine could carry balloons.

Pits, by breeding, tend to be aggressive.  While upbringing can temper that, it is still a dog that, on average, is more aggressive than average.

EDit:  No dog is ever 'tame.'  It's all percentages.  You wanna toss those dice with your kids well being?

[CCM]

Where's Tommy!

[Ed_McCarron]

Where's Tommy!

Tommy, can you hear me?

[LLUncoolJ]

Yeah, my boy got bit by a golden when he was 3.5 (the last kid he ever bit incidentally). Took 38 stitches in the face...hence the reason I am very particular and cautious. It's been 4+ years since we've had a dog. I am also considering a bassett, those and the english bulldog are the 2 most docile and lazy breeds I have found (exactly what we are looking for).

I'm not poo-pooing the pit breed per se, but I know a lot of insurance companies will drop your policy if you have one. I got dropped several years back in my single days when the insurance company somehow found out I had a chow (which I raised from a pup and was about 10 years old at the time). Once you get dropped, it is tough to get a policy at a decent rate from somewhere else.

[eds1275]

I'd say it's the owners that make a dog good or bad. It's more than there just being an "alpha" situation. If the owners are loners and the dog never has a chance to interact with other people you can't expect it to know what to do.

Pure bred dogs have a higher chance of being inbred than your average needs-a-home mutt from the shelter. Pure bred dogs [& cats] have more health issues in general.

[Ginsu Victim]

Pure bred dogs have a higher chance of being inbred than your average needs-a-home mutt from the shelter.

We had a cocker spaniel that was the result of his uncle also being his father.....man, that was one dumb frickin' dog. I miss him, though.

[massive88]

I am also considering a bassett, those and the english bulldog are the 2 most docile and lazy breeds I have found (exactly what we are looking for).

When the concern is that they may make kids think all dogs are docile, you know its a lazy breed.

Even my bassets though (both rescues) you don't want to mess with their food once its "theirs".  Food aggression has to be trained against early though, and both my dogs we got later in life.

[Malenko]

Pure bred dogs have a higher chance of being inbred than your average needs-a-home mutt from the shelter. Pure bred dogs [& cats] have more health issues in general.

Thats a pretty generalized statement, and it's not true. Perhaps a long time ago inbreeding was done to keep bloodlines pure, but they (the AKC) track all the breeders and bloodlines now to prevent such a thing.  Health issues vary from breed to breed and theres nothing to support your claim that a pure has more issue then a mutt.

I have 2 yorkies, both pure bread and they have no majr issues. One does have the problem where the knees can pop in and out of joint, but the other doesnt. Any mutt with a yorkie mix runs the risk of them having the same issue.

[gryhnd]

Retired greyhounds (hence my avatar). Sweetest, gentlest, most couch potatoy animals you'll ever meet (unless you're a squirrel). They don't have that doggy smell, no fur tumble weeds, take up little space and are low on the allergy scale for humans.

I had two girls, a matched but unrelated b&w pair that looked like cows. One came from a million dollar winning lineage, fast as lightening but didn't give a crap about chasing anything.  The other was not the brightest bulb, a huge clutz, and never caught a squirrel in her 12 yrs of trying.

And they lived with our two cats who ruled over the dogs.

I'd have more now (they both passed due to old age), but our first dogless summer was cut short when an abandoned beagle pup jumped into my truck 2 years ago. He's an awesome dog too. Not food centric, quiet around the house, major snuggler. Tough as nails.

And now we've inherited my father in law's golden retriever. He's a sweetheart who would love you to death, but there's not a lot going on upstairs.

[northerngames]

german shepherd is my favorite and a good all arounder breed.

[Malenko]

Oh yeah, man, that crack squad at the AKC is on top of everything.

 

Seriously, the AKC is about the biggest joke running.

EDIT: meh Im not really in the mood to try and out ---uvula--- you today,  I mean I obviously said that the AKC actively police everyone who lets their dog hump another dog and I shouldn't have, so I'll just say this:

TOMMY?!?!?!!?

[Ed_McCarron]

Pure bred dogs have a higher chance of being inbred than your average needs-a-home mutt from the shelter. Pure bred dogs [& cats] have more health issues in general.

Thats a pretty generalized statement, and it's not true.

I've recently had two retrievers.  A purebred golden, and a mixed flat coat/lab.  Both had cancer.  The golden at 12 -- doc said it was so common it was genetic.  The mix had lymphoma at 5, and it also is incredibly common in retrievers.  Both genetic problems that would have bred out if we hadn't meddled.

[Edgedamage]

Well, owning a pit bull is a guaranteed way to constantly get into arguments one way or the other with people about it.

So, if you need a conversation starter....

Nah for a guy safer to get breast implants, now that's a conversation starter!!

[jamesjones626]

Well, owning a pit bull is a guaranteed way to constantly get into arguments one way or the other with people about it.

So, if you need a conversation starter....

Nah for a guy safer to get breast implants, now that's a conversation starter!!

Oh man that brings bad memories.................i remmember watching on spike they showed a guy who got breast implants because his friends dared him to and paid him 10 grand if i recall corectly, i havnt been the same since 

[Ed_McCarron]

i havnt been the same since 

They can take them out, y'know.

[RayB]

Retired greyhounds (hence my avatar). Sweetest, gentlest, most couch potatoy animals you'll ever meet (unless you're a squirrel). They don't have that doggy smell, no fur tumble weeds, take up little space and are low on the allergy scale for humans.

Hear Hear! (here here?) My second one had to be put down a few weeks ago due to some sort of tumor in the sinus/face area. There must be something in the water here because neither grey made it past 5 or 6 years old. 

I have seen some "f'd up" greyhounds though (like one that did this weird n scary teeth baring with chatter thing, and another that would spin in circles when he got too wound up). And some greys are high-prey. But you probably already knew that.

(And here I thought you were just a fan of the bus service!  )

[gryhnd]

Sorry to hear yours passed early. Our both went to about 12.

(like one that did this weird n scary teeth baring with chatter thing, and another that would spin in circles when he got too wound up). And some greys are high-prey. But you probably already knew that.

(And here I thought you were just a fan of the bus service!  )

That's normal. It's called smiling and unless you know better you think the dog is pissed at you.

Both our greys smiled like that when they were happy to see us (actually the golden retriever does too...I wake to him staring me in the face every morning doing that).

One of the greys also sometimes did what is called "knitting" when they are really happy and cuddly. It's basically the chatter, but against your arm...like little love bites. The first time it happens you tend to jump and yell "WTF?"

The spinning thing would pop up sometimes also, as you say when they get really wound up. It's sort of a "chase chase go go where where" response 

[Howard_Casto]

I saw a special on this a few months back.  The short of it is this:  Dogs have very "flexible" dna, and by that I mean with selective breeding it is very easy to change the physical characteristics of a dog quite drastically.  There is a down-side though.  "Selective breeding" generally starts as inbreeding and sometimes continues that way because any cross breeding drastically changes the dogs physique.  Sertain breeds are prone to serious genetic deficiencies that cause various medical issues over the life of the dog.  I'll bet you can guess where this is going by now. 

Pitbulls in particular are EXTREMELY  likely to have medical issues that result in neurological disorders which cause such symptoms as passive-agressiveness, aggitation, and unprovoked violence.  This isn't opinion, it is medically proven FACT!  Even more frightening is some of these disorders don't effect the dog until sometime in adult-hood, meaning the dog could be a gentle as a baby and then one day suddenly snap!

The other dogs on the agressive dogs list are prone to similar, medically proven disorders.

So no, it isn't opinon or case-by-case indivduals so it sin't really up for debate.  If you own one of these breeds you own an inbred freak that is essentially a ticking time-bomb.  By buying such breeds you are also supporting more inbreeding.

I am an animal lover thru and thru, but I wouldn't buy one of these dogs anymore than I would buy a dog with rabies!

[shmokes]

To suggest that pits are no more dangerous than other breeds of animals seems incredibly idiotic.  Some breeds are objectively more aggressive than others.  To point at your individual dog's sweet tendencies as proof that pits are not more dangerous would be like pointing at Michael Jackson as proof that black people don't have darker skin than white people.  Now . . . maybe it's still reasonable to own one, the same as it is reasonable to own a motorcycle.  But it would be idiocy to suggest that riding a motorcycle is no more dangerous than driving a car.

[gryhnd]

Hot dogs and hot cheerleaders 

Starting with a greyhound. http://www.boston.com/thingstodo/gallery/7_18_10_paw_wash?pg=12

[patrickl]

Hot dogs and hot cheerleaders 

Starting with a greyhound. http://www.boston.com/thingstodo/gallery/7_18_10_paw_wash?pg=12

That dog has a rather weird look on its face, probably caused by where she is sticking that hose ...   

[gryhnd]

Hot dogs and hot cheerleaders 

Starting with a greyhound. http://www.boston.com/thingstodo/gallery/7_18_10_paw_wash?pg=12

That dog has a rather weird look on its face, probably caused by where she is sticking that hose ...   

That'd be a happy greyhound All squinty eyed. I'd look the same if they were soaping me down.

Just sayin'

[shateredsoul]

Where are you guys getting your dog attack stats from.. I hear so many different things about dog attacks that I don't know what to believe.

A pitbull enthusiast once told me that the dog with the highest human attack rate are the golden retrievers because people usually trust them too much, it's hard for me to believe this though. If it's true though, when a pitbull attacks the damage must be worse in the end.

I grew up in an area where there are many Latinos and Blacks (not all brown people are Mexican by the way) and the dog was very popular especially among younger guys.  I never met anyone who trained their dog to be aggressive though.  They are very playful, big, and strong.  But all the pitbulls I've met have been very friendly.  It's hard to adopt one though because unless it's a puppy you never know how that dog has been treated or trained before hand. 

Still, when those young guys get married they start to worry about how it will interact with their kids (because of its reputation) and the wife will probably make him get rid of his dog.

By the way, could anyone recommend a nice large or medium size short haired dog? I hate long haired dogs and the hair they leave everywhere.  I want a dog that is calm but that can accompany me on jogs or hikes (or even mountain biking).  When I used to mountain bike in Southern Cali my friend had a mutt that she brought over from Brazil as a puppy.  It looked like one of those Egyptian dogs and was pretty small.  It could keep up with us on 10 mile mountain bike rides.

[Malenko]

more people die every year from cows then sharks.

[jamesjones626]

more people die every year from cows then sharks.

GOOD POINT............i would never have a pet shark.  At a local pet store they had a pirahana on display (not for sale though), i asked the worker if i can watch him feed it and he said no.  Then i asked if i can buy a fish and feed it, he just walked away and shook his head, i laughed.

[Malenko]

GOOD POINT............i would never have a pet shark.  At a local pet store they had a pirahana on display (not for sale though), i asked the worker if i can watch him feed it and he said no.  Then i asked if i can buy a fish and feed it, he just walked away and shook his head, i laughed.

Point missed, I'd never have a pet cow but, well, you could get milk and hambur.......nevermind. I was getting at it doesn't matter the reputation of the dogs (pitbull, Doberman,etc). People think their dog is special until something happens. If nothing ever happens then the fact that all the other dogs attacked is no longer a valid point (just because their dog never attacked). Like I said, I have 2 Yorkies, if one of them turns and attacks me or my GF, nieces, nephews, mailman, etc I'm sure they'll survive. Your mileage may vary.

[shmokes]

Not to mention that the yorkies are far less likely to attack in the first place.

BTW, james, sharks are not very dangerous pets.  It's not like you're gonna have a tiger shark in a tank.  One problem with pit bulls is that they don't just swim around behind glass in a 200 gallon tank.  Also they attack people.  Also when they attack people they're really good at it.

[CCM]

By the way, could anyone recommend a nice large or medium size short haired dog? I hate long haired dogs and the hair they leave everywhere.  I want a dog that is calm but that can accompany me on jogs or hikes (or even mountain biking).  When I used to mountain bike in Southern Cali my friend had a mutt that she brought over from Brazil as a puppy.  It looked like one of those Egyptian dogs and was pretty small.  It could keep up with us on 10 mile mountain bike rides.

If you want a dog to bike with, take a look at a  Rhodesian Ridgeback, or a Vizsla.

[Ed_McCarron]

Not to mention that the yorkies are far less likely to attack in the first place.

BTW, james, sharks are not very dangerous pets.  It's not like you're gonna have a tiger shark in a tank.  One problem with pit bulls is that they don't just swim around behind glass in a 200 gallon tank.  Also they attack people.  Also when they attack people they're really good at it.

Wait'll they start crossbreeding pit bulls and sharks.

[Malenko]

Wait'll they start crossbreeding pit bulls and sharks.

They did, BullSharks! DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNN /pun

[patrickl]

Not to mention that the yorkies are far less likely to attack in the first place.

BTW, james, sharks are not very dangerous pets.  It's not like you're gonna have a tiger shark in a tank.  One problem with pit bulls is that they don't just swim around behind glass in a 200 gallon tank.  Also they attack people.  Also when they attack people they're really good at it.

Wait'll they start crossbreeding pit bulls and sharks.

Lol like Sharky on Eek the cat?

[shateredsoul]

ha ha ha