Slimmer, quieter Xbox 360 is here...

[HaRuMaN]

http://www.thepirateschest.net/game-discussion/68430-slimmer-quieter-xbox-360-arrives.html

And also of note, the older 360's are getting price cut, $150 for an Arcade, $250 for an Elite.

[Necroticart]

The new 360 looks great along with the new 45nm CPU/GPU and Sata connection for the hard drive. I'm temped to pick one up but considering I have a PS3 now and the exclusives are amazing I think i'm going to pass. A little to late on microsofts part this should have been done a long time ago and copying what Sony did last year just made them look desperate for sales

[Malenko]

The new 360 looks great along with the new 45nm CPU/GPU and Sata connection for the hard drive. I'm temped to pick one up but considering I have a PS3 now and the exclusives are amazing I think i'm going to pass. A little to late on microsofts part this should have been done a long time ago and copying what Sony did last year just made them look desperate for sales

the hard drive has always been a SATA connector, it just had a proprietary connection. PS3 and 360 both have amazing exclusives so lets not turn this into a fanboy thread ( I own both, incase you were wondering)

[Necroticart]

I'm not being a fanboy I've gone through several 360's but honestly this needed to be done a along time ago and for the price should have a BD drive as for the $150 price thats for the older model arcade. and exclusives on the 360 most of them can be played on the PC a good example are Mass Effect 1 and 2 great games but they are not exclusive like Sonys Killzone, God of War, Mag, Socom, Modnation Racers, LBP, Gran Turismo, Uncharted 1 and 2 the only real exclusives I can think of for the 360 are Forza , Fable, Halo, DOA and Gears and I'm sure I miss few but having owned both Sony is on the top of their game looking forward to Sonys Conference 

[shateredsoul]

And it still scratches your discs if you tilt it.. personally I don't see the issue.  It says to not move it when it's on, and plus how many people actually move their system when it's on? I love my 360, but mostly use it for netflix now.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-do-not-do-this-with-your-new-xbox-360-176508.phtml&mainnav=Top+stories

*edit* and yes Sony looks to have a great lineup this year.. i'm not too sure how I feel about their motion wand.

[Necroticart]

As for the Ps move I'm looking forward to playing Killzone 3 and sorcery on it. Now for the 360 scratching discs is no surprise it's not like they are expensive.

[Malenko]

I'm not being a fanboy I've gone through several 360's but honestly this needed to be done a along time ago and for the price should have a BD drive as for the $150 price thats for the older model arcade. and exclusives on the 360 most of them can be played on the PC a good example are Mass Effect 1 and 2 great games but they are not exclusive like Sonys Killzone, God of War, Mag, Socom, Modnation Racers, LBP, Gran Turismo, Uncharted 1 and 2 the only real exclusives I can think of for the 360 are Forza , Fable, Halo, DOA and Gears and I'm sure I miss few but having owned both Sony is on the top of their game looking forward to Sonys Conference 

spoken like a true fanboy, lol. I never said you were, just knew this thread would degrade/derail into one. Are you saying Sony is better because they don't let PC gamers enjoy their game? Gran Turismo.....lets not tote subpar exclusives like holy grails. GT3, GT4, and GT5P have all sucked donkey balls, I cant wait to bounce off the walls and not lose speed or damage my car in the final version of GT5. Uncharted is a much better example, I have the first and if I ever get around to finishing it I'll pick up the sequel.

I'll be honest, Im somewhat jaded...I dont dedicate much time to games anymore, I used to game every day, now its rare for me to game more then 1 time a week. I dont like the way the industry is going so I think I'll be bowing out fairly soon. I'm 99.99% sure my PS3 and 360 are the last systems I'll buy.

[SavannahLion]

And it still scratches your discs if you tilt it.. personally I don't see the issue.  It says to not move it when it's on, and plus how many people actually move their system when it's on? I love my 360, but mostly use it for netflix now.

Surprisingly a lot of people move their console when it's on. I used to chew out my roommates whenever they decided to move one of the disc consoles around for whatever reason.

It's stunning how many people are brain dead about this. People still don't get it. It's the exact same "problem" the PS2 had if people moved from a vertical to a horizontal position. Prop airplanes encountered the same exact phenomena since their inception. If you have a big heavy floor fan, try moving that and feel the resistance. Jesus, just take the front wheel off your bike, grip the axle with both hands, give the tire a good spin then move it around in random directions. This kind of effect is a staple at kiddie science museums.

Go check out gyroscopic precession, I believe that's the name for this phenomena. There might be a little torque reaction as well if the disc is in a spin up or spin down state.

This is why laptops literally have the disc "clip" into place, to try and prevent this very thing. It's not perfect though. If I move my laptop while I'm burning a disc, it's a guaranteed coaster.

[DJ_Izumi]

It's a nice machine.  The wireless built in is what adds the most value.  The HDD thing probably woulda happened either way, because the 120GB drive they sell seperately was replaced by a 250GB drive at the same price point.  Of course I go with a nice ethernet cable on mine.

[Ginsu Victim]

Surprisingly a lot of people move their console when it's on.

I used to move something around with a spinning disc in it all the time. It was called a Discman.

[SavannahLion]

Surprisingly a lot of people move their console when it's on.

I used to move something around with a spinning disc in it all the time. It was called a Discman.

Please notice they're also constructed differently than your standard home player. Please refer to my laptop example.

[patrickl]

This is why laptops literally have the disc "clip" into place, to try and prevent this very thing. It's not perfect though. If I move my laptop while I'm burning a disc, it's a guaranteed coaster.

There is a difference between scratching a disc and have a read/write error while moving the reader/writer.

BTW The gyroscpic effects of a moving disc are nothing compared to the forces you get on the disc when putting the machine down with a "thump".

[HaRuMaN]

Getting back on track... 

It also has a dedicated connector for Microsoft's upcoming Kinect motion control system...

So does that mean you'll need to get a new 360 if you want Kinect?

[Ginsu Victim]

Surprisingly a lot of people move their console when it's on.

I used to move something around with a spinning disc in it all the time. It was called a Discman.

Please notice they're also constructed differently than your standard home player. Please refer to my laptop example.

I know, which is why I don't understand why they don't just do that on a console.

[Samstag]

Getting back on track... 

It also has a dedicated connector for Microsoft's upcoming Kinect motion control system...

So does that mean you'll need to get a new 360 if you want Kinect?

No, it just means that when you use it on an old console you'll need to plug it into a usb port and I think also an AC adapter.

[northerngames]

all my launch and family's launch console's are still going strong with the fan mods and poster board tricks so I won't be buying one anytme soon.

I like how they add 1-2 things or a new type of port to each console version but nothing upgraded or what not made me say O wow this one now has a hdmi port I better sell mine and get a new one type thing.

I just use it for gaming only and dont even go live so I have no reason to get a newer one or larger hdd's routers camera's and what not.

never owned a ps3 and never will until it's price goes down to less then $200.00 new with a wireless controller and decent size hdd I look at them like a video game console and that is it for me. There is no plastic toy game console with a greenboard worth $300.00-$600 like they were when they came out.

on launch instead of waiting outside in a huge line to blow $500.00 on a plastic toy system I just broke out the ol dreamcast and playstation and went to town.

I still had plenty of great games to keep me occupied until the price went down to something reasonable on the newer console's.

I could afford to buy them but would never waste that kinda money on a toy and would rather just wait and continue to play prior console's and classic's until they get to a price I am willing to pay for a toy.

even at $200.00 there expensive and overpriced for a toy video game system but I guess it is reasonable when compared to other electronics that are over priced also..

I still laugh when I hear others say they paid $600.00+ on launch day for their plastic toy ps3 sytem to play the worst 3D grand theft auto game to date.  

ps3's next upgrade should be external battery pack's for their controllers but not charge $400.00 for the console that it comes with for that reason.
  

[Ginsu Victim]

I love GTA IV (on PC). To me, it's only second to GTA: San Andreas.

[northerngames]

vice city was the best one for me on lauch SA was good but was pretty much the same feel but in a ghetto setting instead and it was a little to krunk or however that slang is spelled for me  

everything that was fun in the GTA's was removed in GTA4 liberty city stories was better becuase they brought some of it back.

but yeah I would rather play GTA3 on ps2 then GTA4 on anything I played GTA4 on a buddy's ps3 and after 15 minutes we unplugged it and played saints row instead for hours on end and enjoyed that way more then GTA4

[Ginsu Victim]

Which fun things are you referring to? I've played them all, and there are things that are different, but nothing I really missed (though I loved all the extra things you could do in San Andreas).

[northerngames]

here's a few from a fast google search 

Notice many of these things were included in previous GTA games. I think not having these things really takes away from the gameplay.

 

Car carriers - you should be able to put several cars on a car carrier to transport across the city.

Ramp trucks - you should be able to ramp off the ramp trucks like in Vice City, that they messed up in SA and finally totally removed it from IV

Helicopters - magnet to lift cars off ground, ability to put a motorcycle (or anything) in cargo area

Helicopter weapons - there are only guns on the helicopter instead of also having rockets. Also, the guns no longer seem to auto aim which makes it nearly impossible to shoot cars (or other helis) below you.
Tow trucks

Semi Trucks - I want to drive a semi with a trailer attached
Ferry - to transport you and your vehicle across a body of water
Subway/Skylift - I want to be able to move around inside the vehicle, not just hit triangle to enter (same with ferry)

Parachutes

Airplanes

Go carts

Bicycles

Lowriders/hydraulics

Radio Controlled cars/airplane/heli mini-missions

Jetpack - almost necessary to find all the unique things with this game instead of trying to jump out of a heli at the right time.

Drivable/derailable trains – if I shoot a train with an RPG it should derail. Trains should also be included in multiplayer and be drivable.

Stupid crazy vehicles - not necessarily these, but along the same lines: street sweeper, golf cart, etc

Fork lift - make the forks usable

Flatbed truck - make it useable. I want to be able to operate the crane on its back, lift a car onto the bed and drive away with the car on the bed.

Cranes - lots of cranes in the game, none operable

Garages - I want a garage where I can put 20 unique/cool cars in to collect and show off

Car mods - so I can put them in my garage and show off to friends

Forest fires - in SA they introduced fire spreading like in real life. In IV, it doesn't seem like you can start big fires with moltovs like you could before.

Paint/Spray - I would like to choose the color I'm respraying it to (aka car modding)
More safe houses - after doing odd missions (that don’t do autosave like unique jumps, pigeons, etc) I don't want to have to go across town just to save.
Swimming/diving - I want to swim under water. They added some verticality but removed the diving?

Draw bridge - it was awesome in the last version of Liberty City

Boats - I want a large boat. Not as large as the Platypus, but like the tow boat in one of the
trailers. I would also like more boats to spawn at docks... boats are useless because you have to be in the water already to get one instead of being in a chase and heading to some docks where it is guaranteed to have a boat at.

City Size - I'm disappointed that I can go up very high and see the entire city... it seems too small to me.

More weapons - minigun, flamethrower, remote satchels, 8 balls garage, golf club, etc

Random cash - drug dealers with lots of cash on them, parking meters, horse racing, gambling, etc
Multiplayer bowling, darts, pool, drinking, etc.

Map - I would like to save points of interest on my map (not just a waypoint). Name them myself, have the ability to turn on and off. So when I find an armor, I can mark it to come back later.

Carnival rides - I really want to ride the rollercoaster or take a girlfrind for a ride on the ferris wheel (would have been a fun date)
Sliding off of vehicles – I want to be able to sit in a strangers bed of their pickup truck and ride around the city with them. I want to be able to stand on the back of a detached semi truck and ride around with the driver. I did these actions a lot in SA, but now you just slide off the vehicles when they begin to move.

Gambling - casinos, horse races, etc

Helicopter races

Hovercraft

Garbage truck missions - why not? There is one mission, but why not mini missions? Why can I operate the garbage truck in a mission, but not outside of the mission? The button is unmapped out of the mission but in the mission it operates the back.
More arcade games - even SA had more than one
More clothes for Niko

INTERACTIVE ENVIRONMENT - mini golf course, driving range, game arcade, tennis courts, basketball courts, baseball diamonds, skateparks... none of these are interactive like some were in the last game

Camera - sure, you get a camera phone, but you can't really use it outside of missions... where do the pictures go? where do you go to see all the ones you've taken? why can't you share pics with friends for showing them all the little details you've found in this game? Even SA had a better camera than this game.

INSTRUCTION MANUAL – this game needs a better instruction manual. Online is horribly confusing and even the tutorial only covers 10% of multiplayer. I have no idea how to setup my own match, tweaking my own settings. It took me forever to realize when ingame if I hit down on the d-pad it will show me names of people. Simple things like this need to be explained in detail by R* instead of having us users put together manuals for everyone else after mashing buttons to figure out what abilities we have.

[northerngames]

was there any demo derby or motorcycle stunt tracks in 4 too?

stoppies on the bikes were near impossible on 4 also.

[Ginsu Victim]

The stuff listed that was removed, I don't know, it just doesn't bother me that much. Sure, there's plenty GTA IV should have in it, but I really enjoy it for what's there.

I find San Andreas to be infinitely replayable (I have it for PS2, Xbox, and PC), so for that stuff, I just play SA.

Hopefully the next game will correct all these issues and be the best yet.

[SavannahLion]

This is why laptops literally have the disc "clip" into place, to try and prevent this very thing. It's not perfect though. If I move my laptop while I'm burning a disc, it's a guaranteed coaster.

There is a difference between scratching a disc and have a read/write error while moving the reader/writer.

BTW The gyroscpic effects of a moving disc are nothing compared to the forces you get on the disc when putting the machine down with a "thump".

The root cause is the same. If you move the writer while it's burning a disc, you end up with a coaster. It's only marginally better than scratching the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of a disc in that it's slightly cheaper to replace less the time it takes to burn another.

Surprisingly a lot of people move their console when it's on.

I used to move something around with a spinning disc in it all the time. It was called a Discman.

Please notice they're also constructed differently than your standard home player. Please refer to my laptop example.

I know, which is why I don't understand why they don't just do that on a console.

I could be wrong, but I think it's actually cheaper. Not the discman (do you want to have yet another console with a clamshell door?) but the laptop design. When you pop the door open, all the mechanicals have to move out with it.

There was a third design I had about fifteen years where the disc was placed in a padded tray upside down. The theory at the time was that gravity warping the disc altered the music. This was the same group of people who believed using a permanent marker around the rim of a CD also improved the audio quality. I don't know if it suffered from scratched discs. The thing was so damn heavy, I didn't want to move it, ever.

@northerngames

You can play the arcade games in SA? I did not know that. I've got to find my copy and find out.

[DJ_Izumi]

Can we talk about the new 360 agian please?

Anyway, the new system is nice and gives you good bang for your buck.  But the Arcade is discontinued so I wonder what's happening to that, or will there be no value oriented market now?  Though I guess you can get an arcade for $149 now.  (What I got mine for in October in a sale)

I don't see any reason to upgrade though, my 360 does everything I need it to do already and I can just get a 250GB HDD should the need arise.  I have a 120GB in it right now and 86.7GB free, with 11 XBLA games bought and installed and four disc games installed to the HDD.  I think it'll be a while till I max this thing out.

[patrickl]

This is why laptops literally have the disc "clip" into place, to try and prevent this very thing. It's not perfect though. If I move my laptop while I'm burning a disc, it's a guaranteed coaster.

There is a difference between scratching a disc and have a read/write error while moving the reader/writer.

BTW The gyroscpic effects of a moving disc are nothing compared to the forces you get on the disc when putting the machine down with a "thump".

The root cause is the same.

So what? The point is, the gyroscopic effects are negligable. That's NOT the force that's responsble for srcatches in the disc.

[SavannahLion]

Can we talk about the new 360 agian please?

Anyway, the new system is nice and gives you good bang for your buck.  But the Arcade is discontinued so I wonder what's happening to that, or will there be no value oriented market now?

I would be more than pleased if all the companies got rid of the multiple SKUs there. It was one thing to have multiple SKUs with different game pack-ins. But when companies started introducing "value oriented" packaging, it slips right into the bull ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- department. If the "core" system isn't even enough to run one of the major selling points of a console necessitating a new "core" SKU or a "value added package" to compensate something has gone seriously wrong.

If the Joystiq comment is correct, this is a step in a direction MS should have taken years ago. That's what the article seems to imply anyways. One SKU for all.

Now if Sony can get their ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- together, we'd be in business. I'm tired of seeing those damn PS2 options in my menu and not being able to do anything worthwhile with them.

This is why laptops literally have the disc "clip" into place, to try and prevent this very thing. It's not perfect though. If I move my laptop while I'm burning a disc, it's a guaranteed coaster.

There is a difference between scratching a disc and have a read/write error while moving the reader/writer.

BTW The gyroscpic effects of a moving disc are nothing compared to the forces you get on the disc when putting the machine down with a "thump".

The root cause is the same.

So what? The point is, the gyroscopic effects are negligable. That's NOT the force that's responsble for srcatches in the disc.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Did you even see the video? How many discs have you lost? The problem is moving the console from vertical <-> horizontal during operation. This is the exact same problem PS2's had. By the time the dude put the console down with that so-called "thump" the damage was already done.

[SNAAKE]

you get a $30 giftcard if you buy arcade for 150 from target. NO reason to not own a 360 now.

picked up a black one myself and already had a jtag. hacked one is going in my vewlix cabinet lol..

other one for lagbox

[patrickl]

This is why laptops literally have the disc "clip" into place, to try and prevent this very thing. It's not perfect though. If I move my laptop while I'm burning a disc, it's a guaranteed coaster.

There is a difference between scratching a disc and have a read/write error while moving the reader/writer.

BTW The gyroscpic effects of a moving disc are nothing compared to the forces you get on the disc when putting the machine down with a "thump".

The root cause is the same.

So what? The point is, the gyroscopic effects are negligable. That's NOT the force that's responsble for srcatches in the disc.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Did you even see the video? How many discs have you lost? The problem is moving the console from vertical <-> horizontal during operation. This is the exact same problem PS2's had. By the time the dude put the console down with that so-called "thump" the damage was already done.

Do YOU have any idea what you are talking about? Are you claiming that a discman or laptop removes the gyroscopic effects or that if you move the Xbox up and down you won't get scratches? Or that you only "coaster" discs while burning when you tilt it? Of course not. There are many situations where you get the problem.

The point is that the Xbox DVD drive doesn't have protection buffers to keep the disc from hitting the lens. A Dutch consumer show took the thing apart and put a PC drive from the same manufacturer next to it. The PC drive DID have the necessary protection. Microsoft is simply cutting costs in removing what is essential protection of the DVD player and the discs. In fact the same TV show demonstrated that the discs in an Xbox get scratched even if the device is not moved.

Microsoft could have very easily removed this problem from their New Xbox version, but again they haven't.

[versapak]

Can we talk about the new 360 agian please?

Anyway, the new system is nice and gives you good bang for your buck.  But the Arcade is discontinued so I wonder what's happening to that, or will there be no value oriented market now?  Though I guess you can get an arcade for $149 now.  (What I got mine for in October in a sale)

I don't see any reason to upgrade though, my 360 does everything I need it to do already and I can just get a 250GB HDD should the need arise.  I have a 120GB in it right now and 86.7GB free, with 11 XBLA games bought and installed and four disc games installed to the HDD.  I think it'll be a while till I max this thing out.

I saw it reported somewhere that they will be having a slim arcade unit as well. They just released the 250GB one first.

Also, the built in wireless is apparently just plugged into an internal USB port, so it is probably a safe bet that the future arcade slim will probably be sans wireless as well.

[northerngames]

no different then your riding tractor they suggest you dont turn it from horizonal to vertical while it is running with the blades on and tires moving etc.

it's the dumb end users fault for turning it up or down or on its side while it is turned on and that same thing has that a bad effect on many many things these days but its nothing new lol.

I dont turn my pc upside down while it is on either  

someone had mentioned a walkmen but I dont recall any the had an ejectable tray that came out I do recall it had a lid that also had a locking mech on the decent models.

I'm all for a flip top 360 though 

[DJ_Izumi]

A Dutch consumer show took the thing apart and put a PC drive from the same manufacturer next to it. The PC drive DID have the necessary protection. Microsoft is simply cutting costs in removing what is essential protection of the DVD player and the discs. In fact the same TV show demonstrated that the discs in an Xbox get scratched even if the device is not moved.

I'm sorry, but you are just going to have to link to such an article because I've never heard it before.  More over, I'm suprised there's a model of DVD drive for the PC that's so similar to the Xbox 360 drives that they run natively.  You'd somehow need to match firmware on the drive to get the drive to even respond to the 360 and you really can't get hardware from one drive to work on another unless they are basically identical.

Citation needed.

[northerngames]

dutchmen is crazy.

when a tray closes the disk lifts completely off the tray and gets locked between the lower locking ring on the spindle motor along with the top locking ring that the bottom locking ring gets pressed up into in the case top's locking ring when the disk is lifted off the tray.

if it stayed on the tray while spinning it would be like taking sandpaper to the bottom of all the disk you stuck in that machine.

ever notice how the laser assembly drops down when you eject the tray thats so it can let go of the disk and pop it out of the locks and back onto the tray..

sure I could throw a 360 10ft and scratch the disk while it is turn off still.

[patrickl]

WTF? I guess my English is utterly poor or something. I didn't say they put a PC DVD in the Xbox. I say they took a DVD player of the same brand apart and showed the scratch protection buffers that Microsoft doesn't want to install because it costs them money.

I never said the disc just lays in the tray either. Where on earth did you get that idea from? Lol.

Luckily they have some clips of the show on Youtube and it's even translated.


The microscope comparison is on 3:40.

Another clip where they did a test to see discs getting scratched without moving the console.


Of course people will be walking around maybe even jumping while playing Guitar Hero or whatever. Just that shock alone could damage the disc. I thought Microsoft had fixed this in newer models, but apparently not in the slim version.

Another option is to put foam buffers on the top of the drive (other side of the disc from the lens). This can keep the disc from tilting. That only works for protecting the disc from tilting the console though.

So it's just a few blobs of rubber on the lens assembly or some foam buffers inside the housing to prevent (most of) the problems with scratched discs. Too expensive says Microsoft. Putting a sticker on the console is their "solution".

[DJ_Izumi]

It appears that this has SQUAT to do with actually ROTATING the machine but scratches happening in normal operation.  More over, these are the original Samsung drives, there's been three models of drives used in the 360 and the jet engine sounding Samsungs are well out of use.

The information in this article is irrelevent to currently sold 360s.

[SavannahLion]

This is why laptops literally have the disc "clip" into place, to try and prevent this very thing. It's not perfect though. If I move my laptop while I'm burning a disc, it's a guaranteed coaster.

There is a difference between scratching a disc and have a read/write error while moving the reader/writer.

BTW The gyroscpic effects of a moving disc are nothing compared to the forces you get on the disc when putting the machine down with a "thump".

The root cause is the same.

So what? The point is, the gyroscopic effects are negligable. That's NOT the force that's responsble for srcatches in the disc.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Did you even see the video? How many discs have you lost? The problem is moving the console from vertical <-> horizontal during operation. This is the exact same problem PS2's had. By the time the dude put the console down with that so-called "thump" the damage was already done.

Do YOU have any idea what you are talking about? Are you claiming that a discman or laptop removes the gyroscopic effects or that if you move the Xbox up and down you won't get scratches? Or that you only "coaster" discs while burning when you tilt it? Of course not. There are many situations where you get the problem.

Now this is an interesting comment. You were telling me, "the gyroscopic effects are negligable. That's NOT the force that's responsble for srcatches in the disc." Now you're telling me, "There are many situations where you get the problem." So which is it?

I do not make the claim discman or laptop drives remove the gyroscopic effect. Merely that they are better engineered to resist the effect and avoid damage to the disc. You made a similar claim in the link to your dutch videos despite that it may possibly not be relevant to the slim models.

I don't believe I "only coaster" discs when I tilt the burner while creating discs. Don't be asinine.

I am talking about the new slim 360's. The cause in the video linked to by shatteredsoul is painfully obvious. He moved it from one position to another. Disc scratched NOT just from sitting there.

And it still scratches your discs if you tilt it.. personally I don't see the issue.  It says to not move it when it's on, and plus how many people actually move their system when it's on? I love my 360, but mostly use it for netflix now.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-do-not-do-this-with-your-new-xbox-360-176508.phtml&mainnav=Top+stories

*edit* and yes Sony looks to have a great lineup this year.. i'm not too sure how I feel about their motion wand.

[DJ_Izumi]

For anyone here who think's it's Microsoft's fault that the optical drive, while spinning at 7000RPM, scratches the disc when you rotate it 90 degrees.  Please go to your desktop PC with a standard 5.25" bay DVD drive, start reading the disc at a high rate (copying the entire disc or installing a game) or start burning a DVD.  While doing this, please then turn your PC over 90 degrees and please report your results.

I dare you.

[patrickl]

bla bla bla

Whatever

[patrickl]

For anyone here who think's it's Microsoft's fault that the optical drive, while spinning at 7000RPM, scratches the disc when you rotate it 90 degrees.  Please go to your desktop PC with a standard 5.25" bay DVD drive, start reading the disc at a high rate (copying the entire disc or installing a game) .  While doing this, please then turn your PC over 90 degrees and please report your results.

I dare you.

Works fine in my case, but perhaps if you have the cheapest crappiest DVD drive in your PC it won't. So?

It's an easy fix. Probably even easier than putting a warning sticker on it.

or start burning a DVD

What does burning have to do with it? Burning a disc or reading from it is a very precise thing. If the disc moves or whatever this might go wrong. So what? Doesn't mean that your disc should get gouged.

If you jump up and down can you still read a magazine? Does that mean that you would expect your eyes to get scratched?

[northerngames]

one thing I can say is my 360 is a launch it sits horizonal on my pc cabinet I have never moved it and I use it like a game console and I have never had 1 scratch on any of my disk.

I can understand why microsoft don't want to fix something that is not there problem as once again it is the dumb end user's fault for moving it around while it was on as many things today are not meant to be filipped over or turned on there side while it is on or running..

now if you had to start the console vertical and then MS say's once the game start turn it horizonal and it was scratching them then they would have a problem but they clearly state do not turn them on their side's or over when there on with a disk in there.

the one's that did not heed those words learned real fast and it was nobody fault but there own.

if your bouncing around the living room like a rock star then spend a few bucks like a rock star and get some controller extension cables and jam on safely.

[patrickl]

So you didn't have a problem and that means that all those other people didn't either ...

They fixed the drive in later models, but obviously for the new version they broke out the old supply of cheap/faulty drives again.