PS3 Plague ?

[northerngames]

http://www.switched.com/2010/03/01/gamers-beware-playstation-catastrophe-still-plaguing-ps3s/?icid=main|htmlws-sb-n|dl5|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.switched.com%2F2010%2F03%2F01%2Fgamers-beware-playstation-catastrophe-still-plaguing-ps3s%2F

[shmokes]

You're a bit late.  The problem was solved hours ago.

[versapak]

You're a bit late.  The problem was solved hours ago.

The problem wasn't solved.

The symptoms have just gone dormant.

[shmokes]

Um . . . Okay.

You're a bit late.  The problem was solved went away hours ago.

[DJ_Izumi]

It's true.  Sony didn't fix anything, it just stopped being a leap year day.

Though it's safe to say the firmware will be patched by the NEXT leap yer.

[SavannahLion]

We were talking about this at work today. It's the 1800-something error right? All it is is a miscalculation on the leap year? Are you  me?

This is precisely one of the many things that pisses me off about Sony. Leap year calculations is so ridiculously hammered out in code that miscalculating the year is a mistake of amateur proportions. 

[HaRuMaN]

I was trying to watch Netflix and couldn't because of that error...   

[shmokes]

We were talking about this at work today. It's the 1800-something error right? All it is is a miscalculation on the leap year? Are you  me?

This is precisely one of the many things that pisses me off about Sony. Leap year calculations is so ridiculously hammered out in code that miscalculating the year is a mistake of amateur proportions. 

In Sony's defense, 2010 is not a leap year.  You might have noticed that February had only 28 days.  The problem is that it was incorrectly labeled a leap year, so when the calendar clicked over to 1 March and the PS3 was expecting 29 February things went a little haywire.  It's not a programming error.  It's a clerical error.

[Malenko]

makes me flash back to the Zune fiasco involving leap year

[northerngames]

I dont even have one I just got online and it was one of the home pages header's so I posted it soon as I seen it.

I only read a little bit of it becuase I dont have one.

[Frigo]

I'm interested to see how the PS3 fanboys will eventually blame MS for this.

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm interested to see how the PS3 fanboys will eventually blame MS for this that.

One day a year the PS3 has trouble with the internet.

As a PS3 fanboy I was interested to see how it felt like to own an Xbox.

Now I know.

[Malenko]

I'm interested to see how the PS3 fanboys will eventually blame MS for this that.

One day a year the PS3 has trouble with the internet.

As a PS3 fanboy I was interested to see how it felt like to own an Xbox.

Now I know.

luckily for me my PS3 remained in the off position for the 30th or so day in a row and I avoided this issue.

[DJ_Izumi]

This is precisely one of the many things that pisses me off about Sony. Leap year calculations is so ridiculously hammered out in code that miscalculating the year is a mistake of amateur proportions.

It's apparently not Sony's fault.  Sony bought off the shelf ARM chips to run part of the PS3, including the clock.  These chips have a bug and it's actually the SAME ARM chip that caused the issue for the Zune freezes a couple of months ago.

[Malenko]

This is precisely one of the many things that pisses me off about Sony. Leap year calculations is so ridiculously hammered out in code that miscalculating the year is a mistake of amateur proportions.

It's apparently not Sony's fault.  Sony bought off the shelf ARM chips to run part of the PS3, including the clock.  These chips have a bug and it's actually the SAME ARM chip that caused the issue for the Zune freezes a couple of months ago.

that makes it sony's fault, and I love it when I'm right!

makes me flash back to the Zune fiasco involving leap year

[DJ_Izumi]

that makes it sony's fault, and I love it when I'm right!

How is it's Sony's fault that they were sold a product from a well used and reliable series of chips and were assured of their quality?

[Malenko]

that makes it sony's fault, and I love it when I'm right!

How is it's Sony's fault that they were sold a product from a well used and reliable series of chips and were assured of their quality?

same way it was M$'s fault for using the same product in the Zune.

[shmokes]

same way it was M$'s fault for using the same product in the Zune.

---fudgesicle--- that.  It's not the same at all.  Of course it's Microsoft's fault in terms of strict product liability, but the two situations aren't at all the same.  If it's true that we're talking about the same part Microsoft can be forgiven to the extent that they probably weren't particularly negligent.  But Sony would have KNOWN about the problem, or at least should have.  It's not as though we're talking about some obscure part.  Millions of Zunes went dead all at once, and the problem was extremely well publicized.

However, I doubt that it's true that we're talking about the same part considering that the PS3 had no problem on New Year's, when the Zune went haywire.  If it was the same chip, with the same problem, I think it would have manifested at the same time.  But maybe I'm wrong.

[DJ_Izumi]

---fudgesicle--- that.  It's not the same at all.  Of course it's Microsoft's fault in terms of strict product liability, but the two situations aren't at all the same.  If it's true that we're talking about the same part Microsoft can be forgiven to the extent that they probably weren't particularly negligent.  But Sony would have KNOWN about the problem, or at least should have.

Considdering it's the same chip which caused two different bugs on the same software, maybe they wern't sure what would happen?  Since the bug is also IN the chip, maybe Sony just had no WAY to deal with it.  The core of the problem is, part of the PS3 said it was March 1st and another part said it was Feb 29th and that messed up the security scheme.

[shmokes]

Hmm . . . Well, in any case, if it is the same one Sony has a FAR greater level of culpability.  They should have been on notice that there was a problem and issued a fix, or at least a warning so people would know what to expect.  But I think that the chip is actually fine (except that it can't handle wrong dates).  So it's not so much that the chip will mess up on a leap year.  It's that somebody erroneously labeled 2010 as a leap year.  So not a hardware problem per se, except that the hardware is not very fault tolerant.

[DJ_Izumi]

If they could even make the fix?  The issue would appear to be a flaw in the chips design itself, so if the chip is going to do bad math one day, it's hard to work around that.

[SavannahLion]

Shmokes, that's kind of the point. How a computers handle date/time is really well hammered out (at least for non-Windows systems. Noticed one of the recent MS updates last week is/was date/time related. I assumed it was to do with time zones, but now ). For anyone to strike out and kludge their own date handling methodology is just stupid.

In any case. As a consumer, people expect a Sony product to work as expected at all times. Sony selected the defective component, Sony should have done the testing that would have spotted the defect (which appears to be the case if the slim models aren't affected). Let Sony punish the company that manufactured the defective chip, but that doesn't absolve Sony from responsibility. (Now if the engineer intentionally misled Sony on the quality of that component, then you might have an argument).

Here's a thought. If 2010 is incorrectly labeled as a leap year, would that mean 2012 and 2014 are also mislabeled as well? Are the owners of these ahem.... defective PS3's doom to actually taking a break from game playing every February every second year?

If they could even make the fix?  The issue would appear to be a flaw in the chips design itself, so if the chip is going to do bad math one day, it's hard to work around that.

It depends on what, exactly, causes the flaw. It's not the first time a hardware flaw appeared and a software patch was applied as a fix. I remember having to toggle a compile option to work around the Pentium float math error.

[shmokes]

Sony has a FAR greater level of culpability. 

Shmokes, that's kind of the point . . . . Let Sony punish the company that manufactured the defective chip, but that doesn't absolve Sony from responsibility.

Thou doth protest too much

[SavannahLion]

Sony has a FAR greater level of culpability.  

Shmokes, that's kind of the point . . . . Let Sony punish the company that manufactured the defective chip, but that doesn't absolve Sony from responsibility.

Thou doth protest too much

The U.S. populous, as a whole, needs to get pissed off more often. We've (the U.S.) been far too placid about everything around us.

You can see it in the official releases. Wait 24 hours? Duh, the problem "fixes" itself in 24 hours. In a months time, 95% of every PS3 gamer is going to forget this ever happened and Sony is off the hook... again. Meanwhile, Sony may or may not release a patch for a problem that may or may not manifest itself every two (by my theory) years.

I bet someone did a cost/benefit analysis and determined it would be cheaper just to let the problem crop up rather than fix/patch the defective consoles.

[hypernova]

The problem is that it was incorrectly labeled a leap year, so when the calendar clicked over to 1 March and the PS3 was expecting 29 February things went a little haywire

So why would it resolve on March 2nd, when PS3 should be expecting March 1st according to this logic?

[shmokes]

The U.S. populous, as a whole, needs to get pissed off more often. We've (the U.S.) been far too placid about everything around us.

Meh . . . we get pissed off way too much.  Why get pissed if it's no big deal?  Why should people remember something a month from now that doesn't matter?  Your PS3 didn't work for a day.  You're seriously going to still be fuming about it a month from now?  You have better things to worry about . . . like your ulcers.

Of course Sony's gonna fix the problem in the next firmware update.  Imagine how expensive this would be for them if it bricks systems instead of resolving itself.  Take a look at what's happening to Toyota.

Anyway, it's hard to imagine a culture who needs to get pissed about being wronged by someone more often than Americans.  We are an extraordinarily litigious society as it is.  I think we get pissed plenty.

[shmokes]

The problem is that it was incorrectly labeled a leap year, so when the calendar clicked over to 1 March and the PS3 was expecting 29 February things went a little haywire

So why would it resolve on March 2nd, when PS3 should be expecting March 1st according to this logic?

Dunno . . . but that's apparently what happened.

[versapak]

The problem is that it was incorrectly labeled a leap year, so when the calendar clicked over to 1 March and the PS3 was expecting 29 February things went a little haywire

So why would it resolve on March 2nd, when PS3 should be expecting March 1st according to this logic?

Because March 1, 2010 is a real date. The PS3 can see that date and recognize it, even if the actual date is different.

February 29, 2010, on the other hand, doesn't exist. It just plain doesn't exist. There is no calculating it, because it is an invalid input.

[SavannahLion]

The U.S. populous, as a whole, needs to get pissed off more often. We've (the U.S.) been far too placid about everything around us.

Meh . . . we get pissed off way too much.  Why get pissed if it's no big deal?  Why should people remember something a month from now that doesn't matter?  Your PS3 didn't work for a day.  You're seriously going to still be fuming about it a month from now?  You have better things to worry about . . . like your ulcers.

Of course Sony's gonna fix the problem in the next firmware update.  Imagine how expensive this would be for them if it bricks systems instead of resolving itself.  Take a look at what's happening to Toyota.

Anyway, it's hard to imagine a culture who needs to get pissed about being wronged by someone more often than Americans.  We are an extraordinarily litigious society as it is.  I think we get pissed plenty.

Yeah, we are a litigious society. I have to admit that I wasn't really thinking of that. No, what I was thinking about is that, as a society, as a collective whole, we tend to let way too many people get away with too much. Seriously, look at the last 50, 100 or even 200 years ago. We had the civil rights movement in the 1950's. Kids used to be sent to jail (no such thing as juvenile hall back then) for some crazy simple stuff we take for granted today (I didn't believe it myself until I saw the log books) and couple of hundred years ago, forget about it. Public ridicule was the norm.

It's a complex issue, but I think the main root of the problem is that Americans (as a whole) don't like to take responsibility for anything wrong they do. As least Toyoda made an effort to fly to the U.S., have his ass handed to him, and admit he made a mistake (or he said he was defective... I think, damn those cultural differences). Go see any of the major U.S. banks or major U.S. automakers CEOs do that. Those ---smurfs--- will duck behind their PR dick and take off for a $3 million vacation instead of facing us.

[DJ_Izumi]

It's a complex issue, but I think the main root of the problem is that Americans (as a whole) don't like to take responsibility for anything wrong they do. As least Toyoda made an effort to fly to the U.S., have his ass handed to him, and admit he made a mistake (or he said he was defective... I think, damn those cultural differences).

After they initially tried to cover it up, closed ranks, and Toyoda refused to speek to Congress and instead send a company rep.

If you want cultural differences, Japanese corporate culture is to lie your ---smurfing--- ass off to cover the company and show undieing loyalty to the company rather than the customers.  The only reason Toyota took action was because too many people started turning up dead.  Seriously, Japanese corporations rarely, if ever, admit fault to ANYTHING.

I don't think you paid much attention to this Toyota recall buisness. o.O

[SavannahLion]

It's a complex issue, but I think the main root of the problem is that Americans (as a whole) don't like to take responsibility for anything wrong they do. As least Toyoda made an effort to fly to the U.S., have his ass handed to him, and admit he made a mistake (or he said he was defective... I think, damn those cultural differences).

After they initially tried to cover it up, closed ranks, and Toyoda refused to speek to Congress and instead send a company rep.

If you want cultural differences, Japanese corporate culture is to lie your ---smurfing--- ass off to cover the company and show undieing loyalty to the company rather than the customers.  The only reason Toyota took action was because too many people started turning up dead.  Seriously, Japanese corporations rarely, if ever, admit fault to ANYTHING.

I don't think you paid much attention to this Toyota recall buisness. o.O

I have, thank you very much. And how is this any worse from the behaviors major U.S. manufacturers, U.S. banks, and now U.S. insurance companies have shown U.S. consumers after gouging us, then gouging the federal government then taking millions of dollars worth of vacations and bonuses? U.S. corporate culture is to do whatever it takes to ensure the stockholders are happy (which by extension, I guess would be the company itself, but whatever) then to grab what you can before the ships sinks even if doing so is what causes that ship to sink in the first place. Which one of those guys personally appeared before congress to take responsibility for their actions (or in-actions)? You'll have to remind me.

The only reason Toyota took action was because too many people started turning up dead.

What's that quote again? "Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." Which car manufacturer does all their recalls before someone turns up dead?

[DJ_Izumi]

I have, thank you very much. And how is this any worse from the behaviors major U.S. manufacturers, U.S. banks, and now U.S. insurance companies have shown U.S. consumers after gouging us, then gouging the federal government then taking millions of dollars worth of vacations and bonuses? U.S. corporate culture is to do whatever it takes to ensure the stockholders are happy (which by extension, I guess would be the company itself, but whatever) then to grab what you can before the ships sinks even if doing so is what causes that ship to sink in the first place. Which one of those guys personally appeared before congress to take responsibility for their actions (or in-actions)? You'll have to remind me.

The American crops pick out a scapegoat, the Japanese corps tell you it never happened.

But Japanese corporations fear the Japanese public less, even in Japan the press agianst the recalls has been MUCH lighter.  It's believed to largely be because Toyota has major steaks in Japanese largest media outlets and are like the biggest advertises in the country.  It's not they use their control over these companies, it's that these companies fear Toyota without Toyota saying anything.  At least in the United States they make sure everyone knows when there's a scandal.

[shmokes]

I'm not going to look it up, cos I think it's sort of a boring argument, but I'm pretty sure that the CEOs of all the American automakers appeared before Congress during the crisis.  Certainly if they wanted to get bailout money they had to make an appearance.  I don't think this makes them any better or worse than the Japanese automakers.  I'm just pretty sure you are making an insupportable assertion.

[Malenko]

What's that quote again? "Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." Which car manufacturer does all their recalls before someone turns up dead?

I'm not sure fight club has any legal precidence.

[shmokes]

 

[SavannahLion]

What's that quote again? "Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." Which car manufacturer does all their recalls before someone turns up dead?

I'm not sure fight club has any legal precidence.

Thanks for missing my point.