Starting my first build...I could use some input on basic questions please...

[tightwad]

I have been bitten by the BYOAC bug for some years now, but just recently committed to actually DOING anything about it…much to the dismay of my wife.  My kids are somewhat excited, but then they are young and only know the X-box, Wii, etc…they don’t understand just how much money I wasted at the Arcade when close to their age….

I have decided to build a version of Doc’s modular design…I like the small form factor, the modular functionality, and I am hoping to avoid the “Jack of all trades, master of none” Control Panel issue many have to contend with.  Of course little things like button colors, spacing etc will still be an issue…but then I am color stupid so I will just have to make a choice and live with it. 

Here is what I have right now:

Keyboard encoder, plus joysticks and variety of buttons (30 or so, some of each color, plus many black and red).  Homemade spinner (there may be a build report on this coming, as it is an easily copyable design and cost less than $2 for stuff I didn’t have…$10 maybe for everything purchased).  Budget for wood (either OSB or Furniture Grade Plywood).  Plenty of tools (table saw, router, bandsaw, scrollsaw, jigsaw, skillsaw, etc)

I have a couple areas I am not sure of how to proceed, and could use some input:

#1.  Basing my Cab design on something similar to the 24 hour build, or the classic arcade look, is fine, but I am totally stumped about what to do about artwork…or if I should do ANYTHING.  I am not artistic…I can build anything, but my graphic design is non-existant…so I am going to have to “borrow” something else…is it more common to use an existing scheme, or make your own?  I am totally blown away by the amount of talent I see on here, weeks spent designing CP artwork alone and it makes me feel inadequate.

#2.  Computer System…how do I know what I need?  I know this probably depends on what I want it to DO, but I am a bit clueless…I am doing this because I want to BUILD the Arcadet, since that is what I like...I am not aiming for a specific game really…I like the classics, but I can see my kids getting a bit older and wanting to play more involved games…plus maybe I add Jukebox functionality etc…

Here is what I have available for immediate use:
   ---Toshiba Laptop, 1.8 Ghz with 512MB ram.  About 8 years old now, and the hinges are defunct so it has been relegated to garage use.
   ---Athalon 1.8GHZ desktop, closer to 10 years old maybe, with 1 GB ram, ATI Radeon 9250 256MB AGP Video card (could be upgraded), with 5.1 sound card (old), wireless USB adapter...nothing fancy, currently one of the kids computers.  I am currently running Mame/Mala on this, playing Arkanoid and Centipede.
   ---Something I could build….if only I knew the specs I should aim for…I don’t want to build a supercomputer in this thing.

#3.  Video….do I use a computer monitor? One with widescreen and able to rotate?  27” TV?  Arcade monitor is basically out…not something I think I could dedicate to this project, and it might find a home in the house (fingers crossed) where it would be an “All in one” machine for the Wii, X-box and TV watching as well.


I welcome any input, and I am glad to be a member of this forum!

[saurian333]

First, welcome to the forum!  And welcome to the disease...  Most people here will tell you that cabs are kind of like Lays (bet you can't build just one); I'm nowhere near done with my first cab and already have a ton of plans for my next one!

Some of your questions are similar to what I went through when I started, so I'm pretty much going through these right along with you.  I'll give you the best advice I can.

#1.  Basing my Cab design on something similar to the 24 hour build, or the classic arcade look, is fine, but I am totally stumped about what to do about artwork…or if I should do ANYTHING.  I am not artistic…I can build anything, but my graphic design is non-existant…so I am going to have to “borrow” something else…is it more common to use an existing scheme, or make your own?  I am totally blown away by the amount of talent I see on here, weeks spent designing CP artwork alone and it makes me feel inadequate.

Lots of people use existing designs as their basis, or copy them outright, and many of them still turn out to be something cool and unique, so don't worry about that.  I've struggled with artwork too, and finally came up with a theme/title I like (I'll be posting that on my build thread in the next couple of days when I finalize it).  If you think you can't design something, I encourage you to play around with Photoshop/Gimp and follow some of the plethora of tutorials that are out there; it's much easier than you might think.  If you don't have the desire to do that, just browse the forums and/or the web.  Many people have no problem with or are even honored to have someone else enjoy their art enough to use it on their own build, so if you see something you like, ask them if they wouldn't mind.  A lot of people here seem to be the type who would be obliging, and there may even be some who would help out with a design if you have ideas.

#2.  Computer System…how do I know what I need?  I know this probably depends on what I want it to DO, but I am a bit clueless…I am doing this because I want to BUILD the Arcadet, since that is what I like...I am not aiming for a specific game really…I like the classics, but I can see my kids getting a bit older and wanting to play more involved games…plus maybe I add Jukebox functionality etc…

Here is what I have available for immediate use:
   ---Toshiba Laptop, 1.8 Ghz with 512MB ram.  About 8 years old now, and the hinges are defunct so it has been relegated to garage use.
   ---Athalon 1.8GHZ desktop, closer to 10 years old maybe, with 1 GB ram, ATI Radeon 9250 256MB AGP Video card (could be upgraded), with 5.1 sound card (old), wireless USB adapter...nothing fancy, currently one of the kids computers.  I am currently running Mame/Mala on this, playing Arkanoid and Centipede.
   ---Something I could build….if only I knew the specs I should aim for…I don’t want to build a supercomputer in this thing.

Depends on what games you want to play, and which version of MAME you want to use.  I started out with an 800MHz machine (scrapped the idea due to RAM issues), and it was running version 106 quite well for games like Galaga, 1942, and even The Simpsons and TMNT with enough RAM.  But version 135 was pretty sluggish, so if you want to keep up to date, you'll want something better.  Either of the two systems you mentioned will work fine for many games, just play around with different versions and see what works best.  Don't worry about the video card: MAME emulates graphics processing on the CPU, so that's what you'll want to upgrade, if anything; any card that does decent 2D will be fine (there are threads here that go into more detail on that).  If you're looking to build something specifically for the cab, as I'm going to, I've found 2.4GHz MB/CPU combos for pretty cheap.  Basically, the best thing to do is test the games you want to see on your cab and tweak/upgrade as necessary.

EDIT:  Since you're already running MAME on the desktop, go ahead and try some early-mid 90s games, or whatever else you might want to play on the cab.  I think a lot of them will run just fine.  Also, consider HDD space; if you install a complete ROM set + CHDs + game videos + artwork, you're looking at well over 100GB, and you mentioned the possibility of jukebox capability.  500GB drives are pretty cheap.  I'm using a 160GB that I have on hand with the full knowledge that I might run out of space in due time.

#3.  Video….do I use a computer monitor? One with widescreen and able to rotate?  27” TV?  Arcade monitor is basically out…not something I think I could dedicate to this project, and it might find a home in the house (fingers crossed) where it would be an “All in one” machine for the Wii, X-box and TV watching as well.

Now that is a whole can of worms that I'm reluctant to stick my finger into.  I'm just going to say that's a matter of personal preference.  If you're going to hook up consoles and such, a TV would obviously be an easier route.  LCD vs. CRT is not something I want to get into right now; that gets debated pretty hotly now and then (like I said, personal preference).  Does your Radeon have a TV-out?  That would definitely be a factor.

Hope some of this helps get the ball rolling.  Welcome, good luck, and have fun with your build!  Make sure to post details and pics in the Project Announcements section when you get started; we love to follow along!

[tightwad]

Thanks for the tips, advise, and encouragement!

My artistic limitations are not based on an inability to use software, but rather an inability to picture something and make it happen....I just don't have that bone in my body.  I can build anything if it is mechanical, and fix anything that breaks, but somehow I can't see that increasing the pixilation of xxx would make it look more yyyy....I will follow your advise and find something I like and request permission to borrow it if needed.  My son and I came up with a name we like...maybe I will start a build thread to help me stay on track, and I will disclose it there.

For the system I am now leaning toward utilizing a modded X-box.  I read about this elsewhere on this forum, and the pure genius of it is intriguing.  Of course I already bought a Keyboard emulator thing, but I am sure like you say this won't be my only build...and maybe the X-box is a temp setup. 

Using the Xbox does force me to use a TV for the most part, or get a VGA adapter I think.  I am ok with that...plenty of time in future builds (boy will my wife love to hear about that!) to try something different.

I am getting stoked to start this....gotta clean the garage a bit and go from Motorcycle Mechanic mode to Woodworker mode (the two don't mix nicely).

[Spaz Monkey]

In reguards on artwork, just do what a lot of business owners did, paint it black and call it a day.  Saves money, time, and ideas.

[saurian333]

For the system I am now leaning toward utilizing a modded X-box.  I read about this elsewhere on this forum, and the pure genius of it is intriguing.  Of course I already bought a Keyboard emulator thing, but I am sure like you say this won't be my only build...and maybe the X-box is a temp setup. 

Using the Xbox does force me to use a TV for the most part, or get a VGA adapter I think.  I am ok with that...plenty of time in future builds (boy will my wife love to hear about that!) to try something different.

I am getting stoked to start this....gotta clean the garage a bit and go from Motorcycle Mechanic mode to Woodworker mode (the two don't mix nicely).

Sounds like a plan; the X-box idea sounds OK to me.  I have never owned an X-box, so I can't testify as to the performance, but if it's worked well for others, it's a safe bet.  That's the important thing -- the fact that you're reading up on everything.  I kind of wish I'd read just a little more before I started my build, but I haven't hit any snags I couldn't work out so far.

[tightwad]

With all the information available, I am not sure you CAN read up on everything...or even enough.  I figure I will convert to a computer in the near future, but this will get the ball rolling, and then I can become a multiple arcade owner or something.

I was thinking 'XYZ-Arcade" for a title, as the "OurCade" we came up with at first has been used (as have most titles I am sure)

[mwong168]

If you use your Xbox won't you have to interface your arcade joystick and buttons via pad hack?  As for what to use for the screen, if I didn't have my 27" Panasonic Tau tube tv I probably would have gone with a 32" LCD and did a Vewlix style cabinet with 4 players.

[saurian333]

If you use your Xbox won't you have to interface your arcade joystick and buttons via pad hack?

That's a good point.  Is that your plan, tightwad?  I haven't seen any other way of doing it.  Come to think of it, I haven't seen a mod for the original X-box either; are you talking about a 360?  There are lots of tutorials for that out there, and it doesn't look too hard if you're OK with a soldering iron.

By the way, I don't know anything about an adapter from Xbox to VGA, though I'm sure they exist.  If it's a 360, though, don't all models other than the Arcade version (how ironic that the "Arcade" is the cheapest crap of the lot) have HDMI ports?  If that's the case, you just need an HDMI-to-DVI cable if you want to go to a monitor, and you can get that very cheap on eBay.  (If the monitor in question doesn't have DVI, you can get HDMI-to-VGA as well, but I haven't tried that personally.  The HDMI-to-DVI works great with my monitor and PS3.)

[mwong168]

That's a good point.  Is that your plan, tightwad?  I haven't seen any other way of doing it.  Come to think of it, I haven't seen a mod for the original X-box either; are you talking about a 360?  There are lots of tutorials for that out there, and it doesn't look too hard if you're OK with a soldering iron.

I believe tightwad is referring to the original XBOX 1 since it is able to run emulators for various consoles but don't recall it being able to do arcade roms.  I never really played around too much with emulation when I had my original XBOX modded and now I just use it as a media center in my bedroom.  I think PC would be the better option and padhacking is possible for any controller the only difference is some are easier to solder to then others.  Again is all that work really worth it in the long run considering how limited the XBOX is compared to an actual PC that can run various front ends (such as Maximus Arcade, Hyperspin, Mala, etc) and various emulator platforms (such as MAME, Nestopia, ZSNES, MagicEngine, etc).  I think tightwad should reconsider this since he already has the keyboard encoder as well.

[bkenobi]

If you are looking at using an original Xbox, keep in mind that they only run a 733MHz cpu with 64Mb of memory.  As a result, you won't be able to play some consoles very well and the MAME set is somewhat limited as well.  I haven't run MAME on my modded Xbox, but I have run games on other emulators and they do work.  I have seen that it's possible to upgrade most units to 128Mb of memory, but it's a huge PITA and only helps N64 emulation.

Just throwing the info out there...

[saurian333]

...padhacking is possible for any controller the only difference is some are easier to solder to then others.

Yes, and I've also read that analog controllers aren't well-suited either.  Arcade controls with digital microswitches aren't exactly compatible with, say, a Sony DualShock, but work fine with the original PSX controllers.  I thought XBox controllers were analog, also.  Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points; I haven't tried padhacking myself, just have a basic understanding.

I think tightwad should reconsider this since he already has the keyboard encoder as well.

Between the limitations of the hardware and the extra effort required, I have to agree.  Since others have apparently had success, it may still be an option worth considering, but don't forget about those factors in making your decision.

As for whether MAME will run on one, I would assume that it can.  Isn't the XBox kernel based on the WinNT kernel?  Shouldn't be much of a problem getting most Windows programs to run on it, unless they also require VB or .net libraries and such.

And in any case, there is an XBox specific port (and MANY other emus) listed here:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/software/software.php?page=emulators

[tightwad]

MAMEoX works for the Xbox...I just softmodded an Xbox last night, and installed it.  Plays arkanoid...it was 3am when I finished so I didn't test many others.

The Xbox is just an interim platform for me, I plan to use a "real" computer in the end....but I wanted to mod an Xbox anyway, so it was a good starting point.  Drive space is a bigger killer than system speed at this point, although that can be remedied fairly easily I understand.

I am going ahead with my cab build...gotta get the garage cleaned so I can start cutting/routing/sanding/etc. 

[Hoopz]

On the pc issue, I have one in my cab close to your 1.8 AMD machine.  Running an older version of Mame (.94) would be my suggestion.  I went with .94 because the Golden Tee was added around .92 or so.  Anything around .102 or .104 or higher would be slower as the audio system changed as did the artwork within Mame.

[saurian333]

On the pc issue, I have one in my cab close to your 1.8 AMD machine.  Running an older version of Mame (.94) would be my suggestion.  I went with .94 because the Golden Tee was added around .92 or so.  Anything around .102 or .104 or higher would be slower as the audio system changed as did the artwork within Mame.

If you're running Windows, I'd say that's a good suggestion, yes.

I had a MUCH slower machine running .106 quite well, but it was under a very slim Linux install.  System resources went to almost nothing besides MAME and X11.

[tightwad]

I don't know Linux, so I am not comfortable using it....wish I did tho as I can see how it would be much less bloated.  So far teh 1.8 machine hasn't had a problem running the games my kids play, but I haven't been playing TMNT or anything like that.

[saurian333]

I don't know Linux, so I am not comfortable using it....wish I did tho as I can see how it would be much less bloated.  So far teh 1.8 machine hasn't had a problem running the games my kids play, but I haven't been playing TMNT or anything like that.

TMNT doesn't take much; it ran almost acceptably on the 500MHz/512MB.

Getting started with Linux isn't complicated these days, especially with Ubuntu.  There are even LiveCDs out there that you can add your ROMs to (or put them on a separate HDD) and MAME is all ready to go for you.  I haven't played with those at all, though; not sure how well it works.