No wonder there is a shortage of Wii's...

[HaRuMaN]

The Army's got them all!

Defuse Bombs With A Wii Remote

[ChadTower]

[SithMaster]

Its not dead, just napping.

[ahofle]

The military has been working with the hardy Packbot for some time now, using the wheeled robot to sniff out and defuse explosives and landmines for U.S. soldiers. Traditionally, control over the bot has been accomplished with a joypad not unlike the kind that comes with an Xbox or a Playstation. That might seem like an easy fit for today's tech-savvy soldier, but head engineer David Bruemmer notes otherwise.

Someone needs to explain to the military that the wiimote is just a lame kiddie gimmick whose novelty will wear off in a couple weeks.  They should return to using gamepads at once. 

[fjl]

So then R.O.B. has a new job of defusing bombs huh? Are thing that bad for him now-a-days?

[patrickl]

The military has been working with the hardy Packbot for some time now, using the wheeled robot to sniff out and defuse explosives and landmines for U.S. soldiers. Traditionally, control over the bot has been accomplished with a joypad not unlike the kind that comes with an Xbox or a Playstation. That might seem like an easy fit for today's tech-savvy soldier, but head engineer David Bruemmer notes otherwise.

Someone needs to explain to the military that the wiimote is just a lame kiddie gimmick whose novelty will wear off in a couple weeks.  They should return to using gamepads at once. 

The Wiimote works great for shooters though. 

BTW This story has a bit of an april fools feel to it.

[ahofle]

The Wiimote works great for shooters though. 

Only for casual bomb defusers.  Hardcore mine sweepers use gamepads. 

[SavannahLion]

The Wiimote works great for shooters though. 

Only for casual bomb defusers.  Hardcore mine sweepers use gamepads. 

Instructions:
Press Square, Circle, Triangle to examine bomb.
Press Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right Square Circle to defuse bomb.
Warning, never press X as bomb may explode.

[shmokes]

The Wiimote works great for shooters though. 

In theory. 

[Red]

The weak US Dollar is to blame some say:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/88270

[AtomSmasher]

The Wiimote works great for shooters though. 

In theory. 

Not just in theory as proven by Metroid Prime 3, which had far better controls then the average gamepad IMO.

[shmokes]

No question.  But for every one shooter you can give me that controls well on the Wii, I can give you . . . well . . . add up the total number of Wii shooters,  subtract one, and that is the number that control like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  The odds, believe it or not, are slightly better on systems that use Gamepads.  The Wii is capable of good FPS controls.  Metroid proved that definitively.  But few people want to own a system that has no good games, simply because it is capable of good games, if any developers were inclined to make them. 

I'd take Bioshock, Orange Box, Call of Duty 2 or 4, Halo 3, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, etc., with a game pad, over ANY FPS on the Wii aside from Metroid.

So, yes.  In theory.  At best you can correct it by saying:  The Wiimote works great for shooter.   Singular.  Not shooters.  Shooter.   

[AtomSmasher]

I agree there is only one good shooter on the Wii, but frankly I can't stand FPS controls on a gamepad, so for me MP 3 is the only FPS on any console to have good controls.

*edit* Thinking about it, there are two good shooters on the Wii (not that one more makes much of a difference in the debate).  I believe Resident Evil 4 is considered a shooter, and even though its been released on most platforms, it controls best on the Wii.

[patrickl]

Yeah I was going to mention Resident Evil too. I was struggling to get 5 stars in some of the mercenaries stages and looked at some YouTube howto clips. People were complaining how hard it was to use certain weapons. I was amazed, since I had no trouble at all. Then I realized I was looking at a gamecube clip. Simply pointing at the screen is a lot easier/faster/more fun than moving a cursor with a joystick.

I know the Wii doesn't have many good shooters, but the Wiimotes IR sensor would add to any shooter. Saying that a lack of good Wii games proves that the controller sucks is a silly argument. As long as the wiimote is only used for shooting and looking around it works great (ie no wiggling).

Besides there are more shooters with good controls. My 4 year old kid plays Chicken little and Barnyard. There is no way he could do that with a gamepad. Tomb Raider has good controls too, but the game was so tedious that I quickly gave up nonetheless.

Personally I didn't enjoy Metroid that much (I really don't enjoy all the walking back and forth through the labyrinth with a map viewer that's useless in a 3D environment), but the controls work great (most of the time).


Anyway back on topic. I really thought this was an april fools joke. How would they seriously use a wiimote for this?

Or why an iPhone for that matter? There are phones much better suited for this purpose.

[SithMaster]

The Wiimote works great for shooters though. 

Only for casual bomb defusers.  Hardcore mine sweepers use gamepads. 

Or a mouse.

[shmokes]

Resident Evil isn't a shooter.  Not an FPS, anyway.  It's played from the third person perspective.  Any time you want to shoot, your motion is frozen and your field of view is frozen in one spot.  At that point, you just move the cursor around, which of course lends itself to Wii Remote control very well.  But in a FPS, where the position of the cross hair also determines where your character is looking, and thus where he/she is moving, the Wii controller has almost a 100% failure rate (with the exception of Metroid).  It's retarded.  I fully comprehend that the Wii should excel at FPS games.  Common sense, as well as the real-world example of Metroid, prove this.  But it simply is not the case.  If a person loves FPS games and is trying to decide which console he should buy, Wii is dead last.  That is simply the way it is.  It shouldn't be, but it is.

[shmokes]

Besides there are more shooters with good controls. My 4 year old kid plays Chicken little and Barnyard. There is no way he could do that with a gamepad.

I haven't played these games, but I doubt this is true.  I suspect that by good, you mean accessible.  I could be wrong.  Like I say, I haven't played either of those games (and probably never will), but . . . my wife worked in the daycare at Gold's Gym and they had an N64 hooked up to the TV.  I felt bad that the only game they had was a piece of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- Hot Wheels racer, so I sent a bunch of my old N64 games to work with her.  They were a total flop.  The Hot Wheel's game forced kids to stay on the track in much the same way that bumpers keep bowlers from rolling gutter balls.  You could literally hold down the A button without touching the analog stick once through the entire race and, while you would come in last, you would keep up some speed throughout the whole race, and cross the finish line with no problem.  No real gamer would EVER play this game.  But it was definitely accessible to 4-year-olds, which is more than you can say for the far far superior Burn Outs or Ridge Racers or Gran Turismos.

[AtomSmasher]

Resident Evil isn't a shooter.  Not an FPS, anyway.  It's played from the third person perspective.  Any time you want to shoot, your motion is frozen and your field of view is frozen in one spot.  At that point, you just move the cursor around, which of course lends itself to Wii Remote control very well. 

The original comment said "shooter" not FPS, which is why I assumed we weren't only talking about FPS's but shooters in general.      If we're talking about FPS games only, then IMO the Wii still has the only FPS on any console with good controls.

[patrickl]

Resident Evil isn't a shooter.  Not an FPS, anyway.

Third person shooter or first person shooter. Still a shooter.

I'm just saying it's a great game and that it's much more playable on the Wii than it was on the GameCube. This because of the Wiimote being much better for aiming than a joystick.

Or as IGN puts it:

... you'll discover the strengths of the new scheme and why, ultimately, the new Wii controls are superior.

Using the Wii remote, you can point at the screen and aim with a higher level of accuracy and speed than was previously possible

See the point? Wiimote made the aiming better. Could the game be better still? Sure. Does this matter for the point I'm making? No.

But in a FPS, where the position of the cross hair also determines where your character is looking, and thus where he/she is moving, the Wii controller has almost a 100% failure rate (with the exception of Metroid).  It's retarded.

How many shooters have you actually played on the Wii? Counting third person shooters too.

Games like Barnyard, Chicken little, Driver, Medal of Honor and Tomb raider use the same controls as Metroid. If anything Metroid stole the controls from Chicken Little. You walk in the direction of the joystick and you aim your direction (shooting AND movement) with the Wiimote IR sensor. Only Tomb raider and Metroid have the "lock on" function, but other than that it's the same. It works perfectly fine in all these games. Whether you like these games or not is besides the point.

Games where you don't shoot (Bee Movie, Ratatouille) or games where you don't have to aim (Godfather, Bully) don't use the Wiimote for aiming, but they're not really shooters.

The only games where I was really annoyed by the controls were Super Mario Galaxy and all the games where shaking the Wiimote is used for hitting (Zelda, ACME Arsenal, Pirates of the Carribean, Harry Potter). The constant slashing is seriously annoying. Again these are not shooters (well maybe Mario is in a sense, but it's not the main theme)

What shooter games where the controls are a failure are you talking about? I seriously can't think of even a single example. The best I could do would be Super Mario Galaxy, but that's hardly a shooter.

I fully comprehend that the Wii should excel at FPS games. Common sense, as well as the real-world example of Metroid, prove this.  But it simply is not the case.  If a person loves FPS games and is trying to decide which console he should buy, Wii is dead last.  That is simply the way it is.  It shouldn't be, but it is.

You are talking about a different argument. You are talking about how the Wii as a whole should excel at FPS games. I'm saying that the IR sensor is an improvement over a joystick for aiming in shooters (first or whatever person). Nothing more nothing less. The fact that there aren't many super flashy shooters for the Wii (that die hard FPS players would love) has nothing to do with that. It's more related to the underpowered console and/or the target audience.

[shmokes]

There's no reason to think that the Wii would be any better at third person shooters.  Nobody would argue that Gears of War, Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia, Psi Ops, Grand Theft Auto, etc. control poorly on a gamepad.  In fact, most people would much rather play third person shooters on a gamepad than with a keyboard/mouse.

When the controller for the Wii was revealed, everyone went nuts about what this would mean for first person shooters on consoles.  Finally, at long last, it looked like a console would be able to go toe-to-toe with PCs when it came to playing  FPS games.  There was no rumbling about third person shooters, because there was no reason to think that the Wii remote would do anything special for third person shooters.  This is why I assumed you were talking about FPS games -- because that's the only thing it makes sense to talk about.

I understand what you're saying when you talk about Resident Evil 4 having  better controls on the Wii than the Gamecube.  And I agree.  I also know that Resident Evil 4 is a third person shooter, so your confusion is perfectly understandable.  But the Wii remote does not make a better third person shooter controller.  At least it hasn't in any game so far, Resident Evil notwithstanding.  Resident Evil does not illustrate the Wii's superiority as a third person shooter controller because you don't shoot in Resident Evil from a third-person perspective.  It is unique among TPS games in that the camera zooms in over your shoulder and the game transforms into a quasi-FPS until you're done shooting, at which point it transforms back into a typical TPS game.  It works really well, because it doesn't turn into an actual FPS where, as I said before, the reticle controls not only where you shoot, but where you look and turn while your character is in motion.  What it actually does is transform into a static shooting gallery,  like Point Blank or Duck Hunt which is, of course, played from the first person perspective.

However, that brings up another point on your side.  In addition to the theoretical superiority the Wii remote has as a FPS controller, it has an obvious and proven superiority as a controller for on-rails shooters like Ghost Squad, Umbrella Chronicles, House of the Dead, etc.   I'll definitely give you that one.

In the end, maybe developers are finally getting the hang of doing FPS on the Wii.  I've never played Chicken Little and, indeed, haven't played anything on my Wii over the last five months or so.  But in the first year, many FPS games were released including Red Steel, Far Cry, Call of Duty, among others.  They all used the same idea as Metroid, but unlike Metroid, they all sucked monkey balls.  It's certainly possible that things are looking up.  Metroid proved that.  But if they are, it's a relatively recent development.

[patrickl]

But the Wii remote does not make a better third person shooter controller.  At least it hasn't in any game so far

Well I gave several examples. Not sure why you would simply disallow all of those. I'm not saying they are games that a die hard FPS or TPS player would "have to have" (the graphics are PS2 level and the depth is usually of that era too), but the point is that the controls work better than when a gamepad was used.

It works really well, because it doesn't turn into an actual FPS where, as I said before, the reticle controls not only where you shoot, but where you look and turn while your character is in motion.  What it actually does is transform into a static shooting gallery,  like Point Blank or Duck Hunt which is, of course, played from the first person perspective.

Oh come on that's only the case with Resident Evil. In all other examples I gave, there really isn't any control difference between FPS and TPS. You move with the nunchuck joystick and you steer/aim with the Wiimote. Just like in Metroid. The only difference is that you either see your character in the middle of the screen or not.

Medal of Honor Heroes 2 is actually an FPS

However, that brings up another point on your side.  In addition to the theoretical superiority the Wii remote has as a FPS controller, it has an obvious and proven superiority as a controller for on-rails shooters like Ghost Squad, Umbrella Chronicles, House of the Dead, etc.   I'll definitely give you that one.

I'd call those light gun games. Although I know HC wouldn't call Umbrella Chronicles a light gun game (forgot why not) For those games one would (could) buy a light gun on other consoles too.

Actually the Wiimote is ergonomically pretty unfit for those games. When you are constantly holding the Wiimote in a gun pose your wrist starts to hurt pretty quickly. Apart from that, the aim is not so good either. Even when you calibrate (Ghost Squad) then the Wiimote itself doesn't lend itself for precise aiming.

In the end, maybe developers are finally getting the hang of doing FPS on the Wii.  I've never played Chicken Little and, indeed, haven't played anything on my Wii over the last five months or so.  But in the first year, many FPS games were released including Red Steel, Far Cry, Call of Duty, among others.  They all used the same idea as Metroid, but unlike Metroid, they all sucked monkey balls.  It's certainly possible that things are looking up.  Metroid proved that.  But if they are, it's a relatively recent development.

Lol, I haven't played the games you mention. From reviews of the games it looks like the steering only occurs when the pointer is on the edge of the screen. That is seriously annoying yes. Makes turning way too slow.

BTW When you compare to Metroid, are you talking about the expert settings or standard settings?

BBTW Chicken little is for kids and it was out long before Metroid. The only thing I'd change would be the plane altitude controls. For some reason that doesn't use the pointer, but the motion sensor.

[shmokes]

Oh come on . . . The only difference is that you either see your character in the middle of the screen or not.

. . . For those games one would (could) buy a light gun on other consoles too.

And maybe those TPS games control just like Metroid, but that's beside the point.  You don't need that kind of control for a game that controls from a 3rd person perspective.  Look at Mario, Zelda, Prince of Persia, etc.  We're comparing the Wii controller to a gamepad.  There's no reason that the Wii can't do TPS games just fine.  It has the nunchuck.  It's got an analog stick.  But I never said that the Wii couldn't do TPS games.  I said that, while it should excel at FPS games, historically it has not.

On the lightgun thing . . . of course buying a light gun on the other consoles would be better than the Wii remote.  But that doesn't change the fact that the Wii remote is better for on-rails shooters than a gamepad.  What is this?  You're bugged when I say something bad about the Wii, and now you're equally bugged when I say something good about it?  Who are you, Chad Tower?

BTW When you compare to Metroid, are you talking about the expert settings or standard settings?

Expert settings, absolutely.  But even standard settings is better than most Wii FPS games.

[patrickl]

Oh come on . . . The only difference is that you either see your character in the middle of the screen or not.

. . . For those games one would (could) buy a light gun on other consoles too.

And maybe those TPS games control just like Metroid, but that's beside the point.  You don't need that kind of control for a game that controls from a 3rd person perspective.  Look at Mario, Zelda, Prince of Persia, etc.

I'm talking about shooters. As in games where you run around with a gun in your hand for most of the time. Mario, Zelda and Persia hardly have you shooting (if at all). Who on earth would call those games shooters anyway?

There is no real difference between the Chicken Little and Metroid controls besides the character being shown in the middle of the screen. In fact Metroid is less of a shooter than Chicken Little is (in Metroid you are simply walking around 80% of the time and in Chicken Little you are shooting 80% of the time).

So I'm talking about shooters not third person adventure/puzzle games. Hope you finally get that, because if you are thinking about Zelda then you are really thinking of something completely different.

I don't know that many FPS on the Wii, but FWIW I think the controls in Medal of Honor Heroes 2 are superior to those in Metroid. You can actually adjust it to your likings. Tilting the nunchuck for leaning and the ability to zoom in a bit and put the gun up to your face (allowing more precise aiming) are clever additions. That is something that actually wouldn't work in TPS.

On the lightgun thing . . . of course buying a light gun on the other consoles would be better than the Wii remote.  But that doesn't change the fact that the Wii remote is better for on-rails shooters than a gamepad.

True, but I personally really don't like the (plain) Wiimote in those games. Sure the Wiimote performs better than a gamepad, but still worse than a lightgun (or an add-on to turn your Wiimote into a lightgun). I can't believe people would play those on a console without a light gun, so there is really no point comparing it when played with a gamepad.

It was more an explanation why I didn't use those light gun games as an example.

What is this?  You're bugged when I say something bad about the Wii, and now you're equally bugged when I say something good about it?  Who are you, Chad Tower?

I'm not "bugged" about the lightguns. Only by the shooter thing. I say Wiimote aiming works great for shooters. You say that's only valid for only one game actually proving my statement since I really only need one example to prove it. Then you say that the Wii has not turned out to be the ultimate FPS console "everybody" thought it would be. You claim that this would make my statement incorrect, but I say it's just a different statement and I actually completely agree with that one. Yet there are several reasons why the Wii has only a very limited number of FPS games that die hard gamers will enjoy.

For instance, take Medal of Honor. It's controls are superior to any game I know and it moves really fluid (I think thats because of a high and steady framerate). Where I think it loses a little is in the graphics. A PS3 or Xbox would makes this look a lot better, but that's not a biggy. Where it completely falls apart is in the AI. Or rather, complete lack of AI. The enemies just "pop-up on cue" and run towards their target spot and only then start acting (they will actually run past you!). It's insane and completely annoying. It's still one of my favorite Wii games, but I'm sure it would (could) be a huge amount better on a more powerful console.

[shmokes]

I don't know, man.  I'm stuck on FPS games because those are the only games that traditionally suffer when played on a gamepad.  If the TPS uses the same type of control as a traditional FPS, then, yeah, it falls into the same boat.  Games that use this type of control on the Wii have generally sucked, but maybe that's changing recently.  I'm talking about the dynamic where there is an invisible bounding box in the center of the screen, and within that box the cursor moves freely, but once you go outside of the box it causes your character to look in another direction/turn.  Whether for first or third person, this is the type of control that everyone thought the Wii controller would excel for, but that it actually sucked horribly for until the release of Metroid. 

[ChadTower]

I don't know, man.  I'm stuck on FPS games because those are the only games that traditionally suffer when played on a gamepad. 

RTS games are worse.  Great game genre but ever try playing Command and Conquer on a console? 

[shmokes]

The Wii is probably in an even better position to cure the RTS problem, too. 

[AtomSmasher]

Sam and Max: Season 1 is coming to the Wii, which will probably show that the Wii is also great for point and click adventures then gamepads.  It seems that the wiimote is becoming a good compromise between the accessibility of a gamepad and the accuracy and ease of moving a cursor of a mouse.

[shmokes]

Heh . . . Zak and Wikki already proved the point-and-click adventure business.  But that's pretty good news.  It's at the top of my list.  I'm hoping to get to play a few games over the summer.  Maybe finally get my hands on Super Mario Sunshine Galaxy.  Okami looks amazing too.

[AtomSmasher]

Heh . . . Zak and Wikki already proved the point-and-click adventure business.  But that's pretty good news.  It's at the top of my list.  I'm hoping to get to play a few games over the summer.  Maybe finally get my hands on Super Mario Sunshine.  Okami looks amazing too.

Heh ya, I forgot about Zak and Wiki.  Also, you probably already know this, but I haven't seen anyone here talking about it, so I'll say it anyways.  Okami is coming out for the Wii in 2 weeks    Since it uses the calligraphy in the game, it will probably be a perfect fit on the Wii.  I never played the ps2 version (I've been waiting for the greatest hits version to come out, but it never did), so I'll probably be picking it up for the Wii shortly after its released.

[shmokes]

Since it uses the calligraphy in the game, it will probably be a perfect fit on the Wii. 

Strangely, this doesn't appear to be the case.  It's reviewed in the newest EGM, and while the three reviewers gave it an A, B+, and A respectively, all three of them complain about wonky controls.  Here's what each reviewer had to say:

Okami's paintbrush-on-canvas mechanics that drive combat and intereaction with the world seem perfectly suited to the Wii Remote but simply aren't reliably precise.  Many actions take several more tries than they should, where they didn't require a second thought with the PS2's conventional controls.

. . . the conversion [from PS2] is weakest where it counts the most: in the brush mechanics.  Eventhe most basic exercises in the PS2 version (like slicing a boulder in half) suddenly demand a mysterious precision on Wii, leading to unexpected and unnecessary frustration.

I played only a bit of this beauty on PS2, and perhaps that's a good thing -- while everything these two say about the problematic motion controls is absolutely true, Okami remains transcendent.

So, it's highly recommended.  Like I said, the first reviewer gave it an A, in spite of what he said about the controls, and the second reviewer gave it a B+, which is hardly a deal breaker.  But, unfortunately, it appears to be a game that is spectacular in spite of the Wii remote, rather than because of it.

[patrickl]

I'm talking about the dynamic where there is an invisible bounding box in the center of the screen, and within that box the cursor moves freely, but once you go outside of the box it causes your character to look in another direction/turn.  Whether for first or third person, this is the type of control that everyone thought the Wii controller would excel for, but that it actually sucked horribly for until the release of Metroid. 

I guess the problem was that before Metroid the bounding box was basically the whole screen. You only started turning when the cursor hit (close to) the edge of the screen. Metroid added the lock button and a smaller bounding box (up to an even non existent bounding box in expert settings advanced sensitivity)

I'd say it's a preference thing too. I don't like the Metroid expert settings advanced sensitivity. I don't want to have to press a button to allow me to aim at something slightly off center. Yet the standard settings turn a bit too slow for my liking. On the other hand, in Chicken little, there is so much to shoot at, that you need to emphasize more on aiming at the multitude of targets on screen. Then it makes sense to sacrifice some turning speed for aiming precision.

With all the hype over Metroid, I hope future games will actually take Medal of Honor as their example for controls and not Metroid. The default settings on MOH already felt a lot better to me and it allows for a lot of fine tuning too.

:edit: Tried metroid and noticed that it's called "advanced sensitivity".

[patrickl]

Since it uses the calligraphy in the game, it will probably be a perfect fit on the Wii. 

Strangely, this doesn't appear to be the case.  It's reviewed in the newest EGM, and while the three reviewers gave it an A, B+, and A respectively, all three of them complain about wonky controls.

As usual I would say. Is there any "action" (non-puzzle) game where the motion sensors really work great? I guess Wii Sport Tennis is the best example I can think of, but it has an annoying number of misses too.

[AtomSmasher]

Since it uses the calligraphy in the game, it will probably be a perfect fit on the Wii. 

Strangely, this doesn't appear to be the case.  It's reviewed in the newest EGM, and while the three reviewers gave it an A, B+, and A respectively, all three of them complain about wonky controls.

As usual I would say. Is there any "action" (non-puzzle) game where the motion sensors really work great? I guess Wii Sport Tennis is the best example I can think of, but it has an annoying number of misses too.

I thought they would of used the cursor and not the motion controls, which would of made it fairly accurate.  Its disappointing that the controls are not as good as I thought they would be.

[patrickl]

I thought they would of used the cursor and not the motion controls, which would of made it fairly accurate.  Its disappointing that the controls are not as good as I thought they would be.

Ah ok, could be too yes. I have Harry Potter and in that you are supposed to use the Wiimote as a magic wand. You need to make all kinds of complex motions to produce a spell. I think it used the motion sensor for the spells. IIRC it recognized the moves reasonably well, but it was pretty annoying nonetheless.

[shmokes]

Really, for simulating a paint brush, it does seem like the pointer is much better suited for the job.  I haven't played the PS2 version, though, so my opinion isn't very informed on the subject.