Author Topic: 27" Betson Questions (Read 5117 times)

Joystick Jerk · « **on:** April 28, 2007, 12:19:28 am »

Two question about the popular 27" Betson monitor.

First, does anyone have a spec sheet on it, or could provide me with a measurement? I didn't see anything on their website, but I need to know the maximum width of the monitors universal mounts to see if it will fit in my cab. It will be a really tight fit, so I need EXACT measurements. A 27" D9200 would fit in there, but have less than 1/6" of clearance on each side.

Second, does anyone know if Betson has dealers here in Canada, specifically in BC in the Greater Vancouver area?

ahofle · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2007, 01:05:40 am »

http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf

Retroblast's review:
http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/betson.html

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2007, 02:21:50 am »

Thanks for the link, but the PDF didn't include any physical measurements beyond screen size.

flashdog · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2007, 06:09:25 pm »

Specifications
Weight: 83 lbs
Size: 27"
Height: 23"
Width: 235"
Length: 25"
Safety Approval: UL, CSA, CE, DHHS
Screen Size: 27"
Resolution: 800x600 pixels
Operating Power Max: 100W
Operating Voltage Min/Max: 100240V flash.

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2007, 08:46:10 pm »

Is that width measurement supposed to be 23.5"? Can I ask where you got those measurements, as I just want to be sure on the size. Every 27" screen has been at least 24" wide at the widest point of the frame, so seeing this one is half and inch less wide has me a little skeptical.

EDIT: Ahofle, I see you actually posted a bunch of stuff about this monitor in another thread. Would it be possible for you to measure the width of the monitor across the mounting rails(assuming that is the widest point on the monitor)? Not to be too picky, but to 16th's of an inch of you can. Thanks!

Scottk · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2007, 11:20:12 pm »

I have this monitor, and just measured it for you.

The screen itself is 23.5 or so.

However, you are right, when you measure at the mounting brackets, it runs exactly 24.5 inches.
(ie, each mounting bracket extends out about 1/2 an inch)

Scott

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2007, 11:22:11 pm »

Excellent. It'll be a tight fit, but now I kow I can get this 27 incher into my cab! Now to find a dealer in Canada....

ahofle · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2007, 11:59:14 pm »

I just measured mine...it's just a shade under 24.5" wide (24 7/16" to be exact).

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2007, 12:11:04 am »

And thanks to you as well!

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2007, 11:03:22 am »

To expand on the Betsons, has anyone done a "1 Year Later" style review on them? You know, to see how well they hold up over time. I was all set to make the Betson 27" my first choice for my new cab. I was just in contact with a distributor though, and he recommended that I not choose a Betson. He claimed that out of all the monitors they carry, he has the most problems with the Betson/Kortec's. I thought maybe he was just shilling for another company or a more expensive purchase, but he offered other brands that were cheaper. He even acknowledged the problems that WG's have, but said he had less problems with them than Betsons, and that Betsons were a ---smurfette--- to find parts for if they go sour.

ahofle · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2007, 11:51:56 am »

That seems to contradict the posts around here. There are way more problems reported here with the D9200 than the Betson. I know divemaster has had his Betson for 3 years with no problems. What digital multisync monitor did he recommend to you over the Betson and d9200?

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2007, 12:23:43 pm »

Well, he said the D9200/9400 would be the best choice, as they have problems, but they're easier to get parts for and get fixed if something does happen. Beyond that, various Happ models, Polostar, all the typical models. The only reason I wouldn't go with a WG from them is that they had a huge markup. They were asking something like $750 for a D9200.

ahofle · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2007, 12:40:17 pm »

Quote from: Joystick Jerk on May 01, 2007, 12:23:43 pm

They were asking something like $750 for a D9200.

Well I think it's safe to say you're best off not listening to advice from a sales guy trying to sell you a discontinued d9200 for $750.

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2007, 01:07:03 pm »

True, but he was just the tech guy. I'm sure the suits that don't even play arcade games set those crazy prices.

BUT, speaking of crazy prices, so far all of the Canadian distributors I've spoken to would need to special order most monitors. And all have said if they did that, that I would have to pay shipping charges from the manufacturer to them, and then them to me. Then when I made it clear that that was fairly ridiculous and I could get it cheaper by just buying direct from the manufacturer, they all had a long pause and then no real answer.

Christ, I swear living in Canada is like living on the moon at times when your trying to find niche products at decent prices.

shorthair · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2007, 03:59:42 pm »

Dood. You're in Canada, check out NiemanDisplays.com

Rickn · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2007, 06:30:53 pm »

So then, where in Canada are you??

If you check-out our website, you can find specs, dimensions etc..

I am not promising to beat the Betson/Kortec price- to be honest I know what grade a tubes chassis and parts cost. After all that is what we do- build monitors, that is what I have done for over 20 years.

You may want to think about waranty and support. When you call us, you will likely get me- right off the bat, if not Nick who has worked with me for over 20years ( both of us Ex -Production Engineers for Electrohome G07< G08)

If you are interested, do not hesitate to contact me direct, I am always happy to help or answer questions.

Good Luck

Rick Nieman
Rick@Niemandisplays.com
www.niemandisplays.com
519-621-1722

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2007, 11:55:07 pm »

I would love to get a display from you Rick, and I may if it comes down to it, but I've heard there are geometry size changes when the display switches modes with your Tri-Mode display. I'd like to go with a Tri-Mode Digital at this point just so that it can save geometry settings and I'm not fiddling with them for every game.

Do you have any plans to produce a Digital Tri-Mode monitor in the future?

Rickn · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2007, 04:21:57 pm »

Yes I have heard of the issues you mention. Our monitors do autoswitch and are originally designed for the arcade industry.

In these cases, the arcade operator will run a dedicated game and not switch back and forth.

In an answer for the mame community, if you are going to run a front end constant at 640X480, our monitor should be great.

As far as switching betwen Resolutions, I have bought a Jpac, an Ultracade Video Card an OptiPac, 266Mhz PC, 250 hard drive......

Now it is just finding the time. We are going to actualy do 3 mame cabinets:
-1 with my setup, in a 25" cabinet using all the stuff above and switching resolutions
-1 with a 39" tri-res, running fixed front end at 640X480
- 1 with a 25" cabinet again fixed front end
I will do some testing with mine both Horizontal and vertical mount.

In a nutshell we will be doing some "tweaking of our existing model for use with Mame"

We have a 27" digital that does VGA to XGA, but we are also in the engineering stages of a 27" digital quad Res.

Everything takes time - especially when you do it right.

We pride ourselves in the fact that our monitors are built in North America, they are supported fully by us "North America"

Rick

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2007, 01:14:02 am »

Yeah, I may end up buying one of your screens and just forcing everything to one resolution. Finding monitors up here in Canada is a ---smurfette---. I just spoke with another distributor here in Canada and they wanted over $1000 for the Betson 27".

Hmm, let me think... do I really want to pay almost 3 times the US price? Oh me oh my, what a tough decision on that one.

tetsu96 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2007, 03:11:12 am »

Quote from: Joystick Jerk on May 03, 2007, 01:14:02 am

Yeah, I may end up buying one of your screens and just forcing everything to one resolution. Finding monitors up here in Canada is a ---smurf---. I just spoke with another distributor here in Canada and they wanted over $1000 for the Betson 27".

Hmm, let me think... do I really want to pay almost 3 times the US price? Oh me oh my, what a tough decision on that one.

Choosing a monitor is subjective to a large extent based on how accurate you consider the video output needs to be. For some people, forcing all the games to use 1 resolution degrades the fidelity of the video of some games too much for it to be considered accurate. If you can do so without this complaint, then perhaps a TV would also be fine if it used a high quality video connector (at least S-Vid, pref component although we're still talking 480i video / no HD).

There's enough topics in the Video and Main forums which get into more detail and have screen shots to compare.

I've got 2 Betsons which after over 1 year of service are still working out nicely. I don't know if they're considered "Tri-Res", but my config files put the scan range at 15-36KHz and AdvanceMAME does change the scan rates as it needs to for proper drawing of an image. They've been tops ever since I got em.

I've heard good about the Neiman displays and the Billabs monitors. I doubt I'd like the Billabs for older games as it's a flat screen, but probably one of the sharpest looking monitors you can get today.

The WG monitors you may want to stay away from based on other's experiences here, but I doubt you'd go wrong with the 3 WG alternatives listed above.

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2007, 04:07:52 pm »

I was looking to get a Tri-Res monitor just because "I can". I'm not so anal about having the proper scanlines and all that, so forcing stuff to one res woudn't be the end of the world for me.

A TV would be a decent option, but in general their housing is so bulky that you have to get much smaller screen than your cab could normally accomodate just to fit it in.

ahofle · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2007, 04:21:13 pm »

Just my opinion, but if you not looking to run native resolutions, I think your money would be better spent on a large LCD or PC CRT (or even a TV). The whole point of going through the trouble of getting an arcade monitor for your cab is to utilize the lower resolutions that they support to more accurately display the games as they were intended (again IMO).

I do hope that Rick comes out with that digital 'quad res' multisync mentioned below.

Rickn · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2007, 05:21:49 pm »

There are still advantages of the arcade monitor, brightenes viewing angle, longevity (at leats if it is a good monitor) and mounting.

This is especialy true if you have an actual arcade cabinet. Yetsreday we took our 24.8" monitor and the cabinets we are going to use for mame.

Dropped right in, either horizontaly or vertically as it comes with a 15pin sub- d connector ( also has an adapter for 6 wire, but this is not needed for mame) plugs right into the video card.

Kiss (Keep it simple stupid).

Anyway, we are still a bit away, as this is actualy a side project I took up after joining yopu guys on the forum , but getting closer to our testing.

By the way, in Canada, Pacific Vend in Vancouver (we just shipped tri-res 24.8"s and 27")

Newway Sales in Edmonton will get a skid of 27" tri-res shipped next week and perhaps, some 24.8" - I have gave them an extremely good price and think they will pass it on.

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com
www.niemandisplays.com

shorthair · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2007, 10:45:18 pm »

Aholfe: but they were intended that way due to hardware limitations and cost-cutting. Or maybe I'm wrong (hm, Rick?). But there are no other reasons I can think of they'd do such a thing.

I agree with Rick on the color aspect of arcade monitors, though the highest resolution possible I, so far, find the most pleasing. In which case a PC monitor does just fine. And if you want a 19" size, get a 21" PC monitor - de-case and orient it. Monitor-wise, this is the cheapest way to get good graphics, enough so that you might be able to make two cabs. Of course, you could look for an NEC or Mitsubishi, etc, presentation monitor, of which the 27's are generally SVGA or even XGA. (I just bought a Monivision on ebay - to compare to my Billabs (XGA-capable), but most likely just keep for a second cab - for $50 and it does XGA.)

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2007, 03:07:11 am »

Don't get me wrong, I would love a true Tri, or Quad, Res Digital monitor, with the proper scanlines and all. It's just not a dealbreaker as it is to some peoples projects. I would certainly go with a PC monitor if I could, but PC monitors larger than 21" are becoming a rare beast these days, and I'd almost certainly end up incurring massive shipping charges to get one. I actually looked around at this option, and there are no stores selling PC CRT's larger than 19" in my area. There's just no call for them these days now that LCD's have taken hold. And an LCD would be an option, but you can't really find one larger than 21" in a 4:3 ratio. Everything bigger than that is widescreen, and then the cost goes up, and you sacrifice vertical height for horizontal.

The more I look at this, the more likely I am to buy one of Rick's displays and force one res for now. When and if he releases the quad-res digital, I can always sell my screen to someone here and upgrade.

And Rick, if you don't mind revealing some info, what price is Pacific Vend paying you per monitor for the 27" Tri-Res? I'll give them a call, but it'll help me get a good price if I know what they're paying on their end. I know more than a few distributors that will try and gouge individual consumers basically because this is a niche industry and they can get away with it.

divemaster127 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2007, 09:41:06 am »

Just a fyi i have been running my betson for going on 3 years with no issues
dm

ahofle · « **Reply #26 on:** May 04, 2007, 11:11:41 am »

Quote from: shorthair on May 03, 2007, 10:45:18 pm

Aholfe: but they were intended that way due to hardware limitations and cost-cutting. Or maybe I'm wrong (hm, Rick?). But there are no other reasons I can think of they'd do such a thing.

That may be true that there were hardware limitations. However, it doesn't follow that using better hardware (ie a higher resolution monitor) will "improve" anything. If you run a game designed for 320x240 at 1600x1200 you are going to have to be "inventing" pixel data for the extra 1.8 million or so pixels. In addition to this, it's pretty commonly accepted that games back then were designed with the 'limited' hardware of the time in mind. Take this picture of Turbo posted by Xiaou2 in another thread:

Look at the image on a PC monitor of the car. It's horrible because it's so accurate it makes the car look cartoonish. The picture on an arcade monitor utilizes the idiosyncrasies of an arcade monitor (color blending, etc) to make the car look better (look at the tires). If you run the game on a different display device, you lose this. To quote that thread:

Quote

The mask coupled with other factors such as where the actual r,g,b locations are
in relation to position.. create a look that is far different than any simulation currently.

There is color bleeding, and blending.. and this is also not simulated. Which is why
the colors in the arcade monitors look so very different from mame on a pc display.

Here is the thread in case you're interested (although it's on another topic):
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=57883.0

So in short, yes the games used limited hardware. But to accurately reproduce the games, you also need to use 'limited' hardware.

shorthair · « **Reply #27 on:** May 05, 2007, 01:21:15 am »

Well, I support Randy and Andy's conclusion, that X's monitor is not working properly. Regardless, my point is that I find the following interesting:

1. that people didn't think there was something inherently deficient in the displayed images.

2. that, despite having experience with higher-resolution displays, they are adamant about wanting them to remain that way.

ahofle · « **Reply #28 on:** May 05, 2007, 02:02:11 am »

Hey, if stretching CGA games to 1600x1200 looks better to you, then who is going to convince you otherwise!

shorthair · « **Reply #29 on:** May 05, 2007, 03:16:52 pm »

I just don't prefer scan lines. And, if you set switchres on and set the the resolution to the max resolution of your monitor, in my case XGA, then it's super sharp, with no scan lines. The only thing that's sharper is using D3D with the bilinear filtering off. THAT is sharp, I'll tell ya.

eclypse · « **Reply #30 on:** May 15, 2007, 06:17:16 pm »

Wow thats gona be a tight fit.. I plan to put the same monitor in my Killer Instink 2 cab and its gona be tight but i have a lot more room then you. I have 25 1/8" wide of a hole for her.

Question.. With it so tight is it still possable to use a monitor bezel?

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #31 on:** May 15, 2007, 06:58:20 pm »

More room? I'm pretty sure the KI cab and the MK cab are almost the exact same. But measurments are measurements, and the monitor should fit in our cabs, with barely a pencils width to spare!

Can't use a standard bezel of course. Once I get my monitor mounted, I'll see if I can alter a standard bezel, or just make my own. Considering it'll be behind some lightly smoked glass, a bezel made out of thick black poster paper wouldn't really stand out.

johnnya · « **Reply #32 on:** May 16, 2007, 12:43:10 am »

I have a KI and a KM cab, and I'm pretty sure they are the same. Look the same to me at least.

eclypse · « **Reply #33 on:** May 16, 2007, 12:55:38 am »

Quote from: Joystick Jerk on May 15, 2007, 06:58:20 pm

More room? I'm pretty sure the KI cab and the MK cab are almost the exact same. But measurments are measurements, and the monitor should fit in our cabs, with barely a pencils width to spare!

Can't use a standard bezel of course. Once I get my monitor mounted, I'll see if I can alter a standard bezel, or just make my own. Considering it'll be behind some lightly smoked glass, a bezel made out of thick black poster paper wouldn't really stand out.

How wide of a monitor hole do you have? Yeah i thought these are the same cabs as the Mortal Kombats.

eclypse · « **Reply #34 on:** May 16, 2007, 12:58:30 am »

Joystick.. Did you manage to find a seller for the monitor? I'm in Michigan and plan to order one soon. Could come over and pick her up if your close enough. Then i could just order 2.. maybe save on shipping that way.

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #35 on:** May 16, 2007, 01:17:23 am »

Quote from: eclypse on May 16, 2007, 12:55:38 am

How wide of a monitor hole do you have? Yeah i thought these are the same cabs as the Mortal Kombats.

Same as yours, although mine is ever so slightly warped, so it goes from 25" near the bottom of the monitor area to 25-1/8" near the top.

Quote from: eclypse on May 16, 2007, 12:58:30 am

Joystick.. Did you manage to find a seller for the monitor? I'm in Michigan and plan to order one soon. Could come over and pick her up if your close enough. Then i could just order 2.. maybe save on shipping that way.

I did find some sellers here in Canada, but they were asking crazy "bend over and prepare to violated in yer bum" prices to obtain one. It would be cheaper just to buy one direct from Betson, as they said they could ship to Canada for $240, and I'm sure I could talk that down a bit once I'm ready to make a purchase.

Thanks for the offer though. I'm in Vancouver though, so Michigan is a tad far away.

eclypse · « **Reply #36 on:** May 16, 2007, 01:33:11 am »

heh sorry to hear that.. That sucks.

eclypse · « **Reply #37 on:** May 23, 2007, 11:01:23 am »

Anyone know where i can buy some monitor brackets for the Betson 27"?? Oh slik stik is out as there on back order ofcourse


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