Somebody make me an IDE->Centronics cable and sell it for ~$5... please?

[quarterback]

I mentioned this in this thread in the "Hardware Reviews" forum, but discussion probably isn't really appropriate in a 'review' thread, so I figured I'd give it it's own thread for discussion.


What I'd love to buy is a premade IDE -> centronic connector.  This would allow me (and others) to very easily hook up our solderless GroovyGameGear encoders without having to strip and 'organize' 40 very thin wires from an IDE cable.   The other big bonus would be the instant ability to make swappable, or just easily removable CPs.

If you're not familiar with what I'm describing, basically it would look like this:




This is something I've thought about for a while but I haven't done it (because my soldering skills suck) and just never got around to mentioning it.    I think something like this would be awesome.  Anybody want to make it for me?

[Grasshopper]

Centronics connectors are the best type you can buy IMHO.

I used them on a converter box I made some time ago which is basically an Ipac hacked into a printer switchbox. Although I'm happy with the end result the soldering was indeed a major hassle.

Next time, to save soldering, I might use the type of centronics connectors that can be crimped onto an IDE ribbon:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?sku=1099282

[quarterback]

Next time, to save soldering, I might use the type of centronics connectors that can be crimped onto an IDE ribbon:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?sku=1099282

Whoa whoa whoa whoaaaaaa.  Are you saying that there already is a centronics connector that can be crimped stright onto an IDE ribbon?!?!?!?

There's no pic at your link there, is that really what that item is? 

[Grasshopper]

That's weird. There was definitely a picture when I first posted the link. However, if you check the datasheet you'll see that it is a crimp style connector.

[quarterback]

I see now that there is a datasheet and this looks like EXACTLY what I would want.  I did all kinds of searched for converters/adapters but didn't come up with anything.  I thought I must have been the only person to ever think of this.

They make a 50 terminal one as well (which would cover all of the 40 wires from the IDE cable).     All it would take is to buy one of these inexpensive parts, grab an old IDE cable, connect the two and be good to go.

From that point, all I'd need to do is to buy the male end and attach the wires to QDs or into a terminal strip with my controls wired to the other side.   Seems like a great solution to me.  Hell RandyT should start selling these along with his solderless encoders!

This is awesome, Grasshopper.  Now I just need to find a source in the US.  I wonder if there's a local electronics place where I can pick one up instead of paying $5 shipping for a $1 item. 

Thanks!

[Grasshopper]

Here's another much more expensive brand:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=3273842

Click on the data sheet and you'll see a photograph.

[Grasshopper]

This is awesome, Grasshopper.  Now I just need to find a source in the US.  I wonder if there's a local electronics place where I can pick one up instead of paying $5 shipping for a $1 item. 
Thanks!

FWIW Farnell also have a US subsidiary. In my experience they're an excellent company to deal with. I always order components from them because they're generally cheaper than high street stores, have good service, and they don't charge extra for shipping. Unfortunately they do have a minimum order amount (£20 in the UK).

[Jess--]

from what I remember 90% of farnell stock is available through CPC www.cpc.co.uk

dont think they have a min order

[RandyT]

I think I have a source.  If I can get some, I'll offer the cables.  I don't know about $5 thing though, as some of the parts aren't cheap.

Also, the layout of the inputs on the 40-pin are going to make it odd for the 36-pin connectors.  Which is more important, the Shazaaam! button or the +5v connection?  I can't give you both in that connector. *edit*  Ok, I guess I can 

RandyT

[Matth9]

I got 50-pin crimp-on Centronics connectors (male and female) from Norvac, my local electronic components shop.  Plus, they had the ribbon cable too!  I'm sure there's gotta be someplace local you can find 'em.  Good luck. 

[Fozzy The Bear]

from what I remember 90% of farnell stock is available through CPC www.cpc.co.uk
dont think they have a min order

CPC is owned by Farnell.... and CPC have a minimum order of £40 if you want free delivery. Otherwise they charge a fortune for delivering goods.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Fozzy The Bear]

Which is more important, the Shazaaam! button or the +5v connection?  I can't give you both in that connector.

Shazaaam key, without a doubt, is much more important... We could pick up a 5V suply from the PC when we need one. The 100ma limit on the keyboard connector is only barely enough to run a couple of high power LED's.

Routing the Shazaaam key through the connector also means you could cut out running the additional ground for the 5V supply as well.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Grasshopper]

Which is more important, the Shazaaam! button or the +5v connection?  I can't give you both in that connector.

Shazaaam key, without a doubt, is much more important... We could pick up a 5V suply from the PC when we need one. The 100ma limit on the keyboard connector is only barely enough to run a couple of high power LED's.

Routing the Shazaaam key through the connector also means you could cut out running the additional ground for the 5V supply as well.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

I have to say I disagree. In my opinion a shift/shazaam key is the least important of all the facilities potentially offered by a keyboard encoder because exactly the same thing can be achieved from within MAME itself.

However, a +5v line is absolutely vital if you're using an inductive or optical joystick. If you end up having to use an extra wire for +5v then it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole exercise.

[RandyT]

Heh. now you know why I asked.

But I'm starting to lean toward what Julian wrote.  The 5v line (or any power for that matter) might be better served by a dedicated power connector in the cab that comes directly from the PC power supply.  Yes, it's an extra connector, but because it's power, it's probably not a bad way to do things.

In any event, I have the connectors on order.  Just to make sure I understand, we are talking about a short  "pigtail" that goes from 40-pin to 36 pos female, yes?  I'll see if I can lay my hands on some centronics cables for hacking as well (gotta make sure there are more than 25 wires in them....)

Randy

[Grasshopper]

Why not just supply the lead and uncrimped connectors as a kind of kit and then your customers can decide which option they'd prefer?

Also, it occurs to me that you could simply change the order of some of the wires before doing the crimping i.e. like the old style floppy disk cables that had a twist in them so you didn't need to set the drive jumpers.

[RandyT]

Why not just supply the lead and uncrimped connectors as a kind of kit and then your customers can decide which option they'd prefer?

The large IDC connectors can be difficult to use without a press, so a kit may not be too fun.

Also, it occurs to me that you could simply change the order of some of the wires before doing the crimping i.e. like the old style floppy disk cables that had a twist in them so you didn't need to set the drive jumpers.

I thought about this.  There may still be a possibility there, but a lot of those types of cables had an adhesive on the back part of the connector to facilitate this when done by hand (machines don't care)  I'll have to try it to see if it can be done reliably. *edit*  Ok, it was a bit of a PITA, but it looks like it will work.

RandyT

[Grasshopper]

Why not just supply the lead and uncrimped connectors as a kind of kit and then your customers can decide which option they'd prefer?

The large IDC connectors can be difficult to use without a press, so a kit may not be too fun.

I've crimped connectors before by tightening them in a vice. It's a bit fiddly but definitely doable.

[quarterback]

Just to make sure I understand, we are talking about a short  "pigtail" that goes from 40-pin to 36 pos female, yes? 

That's what I was thinking.

In any event, I have the connectors on order. 

Wow, look at me with my big mout    Now I feel like I should actually buy one when you get these in   

[RandyT]

Wow, look at me with my big mout    Now I feel like I should actually buy one when you get these in   

Yeah, heaven forbid 

Seriously though, it's a good idea for those looking to make swappable panels.  I might even offer male centronics cables with fully shielded terminals pre-attached to the dangly bits before I'm done (if I can find cables with large enough wire inside.)


RandyT

[NickG]

Here are some pictures of an adaptor I pulled from a $5 removable hard drive tray.  It seems to be fully wired (all 40-pins)




How's that?

[quarterback]

Here are some pictures of an adaptor I pulled from a $5 removable hard drive tray.  It seems to be fully wired (all 40-pins)

Dude, you are so much ---smurfing--- smarter than I am.   I have two of those sitting unused on a shelf literally 3-feet away from me!   

They're 50pin Centronics which is why they have all 40 pins wired (plus 12v and 5v on mine).   Unbelievable.  Thanks NickG!

[RandyT]

Ok, these will be available at the store shortly.



As you can see, all of the important connections made it to the socket (32 inputs, ground, +5v and Shazaaam!)

I missed the price a little, but $6.49 each shouldn't break the bank.

BTW, good idea on the removable drive bay connectors.  The 50 pin cables might be a little tougher to come by than a printer cable though.  *edit*  Also make sure that the 7 grounds that are present on the IDE bus aren't all tied together on that connector.  If they are, it could be very bad depending on which pins are affected.

And on that note, if using a printer cable, make sure you get one with the full 36 wires.  Some have only 25 in them.

RandyT

[Grasshopper]

And on that note, if using a printer cable, make sure you get one with the full 36 wires.  Some have only 25 in them.

I tried very hard to source a 36 wire Centronics cable for my project but failed. The best pre-made cable I could find (from Farnell) used only 25 wires.

A word of warning to anyone here. Do not buy cables from any company that does not provide pinouts. Don't assume they'll conform to the Centronics standard as some manufacturers take shortcuts. The first cable I bought did all sorts of weird things like join all the earths together making a total of only 18 usable connections. But it didn't come with any documentation explaining this. So if I hadn't been paranoid enough to check the continuity of all the pins with a multimeter before switching on the power I could have ended up frying my Ipac. It was made by Belkin which I assumed was a reputable brand.

[quarterback]

As you can see, all of the important connections made it to the socket (32 inputs, ground, +5v and Shazaaam!)

I missed the price a little, but $6.49 each shouldn't break the bank.

Looks great Randy 

Also make sure that the 7 grounds that are present on the IDE bus aren't all tied together on that connector.  If they are, it could be very bad depending on which pins are affected.

The first cable I bought did all sorts of weird things like join all the earths together making a total of only 18 usable connections

 if I hadn't been paranoid enough to check the continuity of all the pins with a multimeter before switching on the power I could have ended up frying my Ipac.

Thanks for the tips.  I'll definitely check things out.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Ok, these will be available at the store shortly.
I missed the price a little, but $6.49 each shouldn't break the bank.

That's great Randy! It'll be on my post Christmas order list..... 

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[RandyT]

Thanks.

But here's the deal on cables;

They aren't easy to find anymore as the cable standard is obsolete, just like the centronics connectors.  Due to this, I cancelled my backorder on the connectors, so this will be a limited run of about 30 of these.

The cables are out there, but not in great numbers.  The best prices I have seen are in the $6 dollar plus shipping range, but you can get 2 usable parts so that's not too bad.  What is a little bothersome is that unless you get an old monster from a junk bin (like I have  ) the lines are going to be 28ga.  These will work fine for controls, but are pretty small to work with.

CN36 Male / Male cables come with 18, 25 and 36 conductors.  The 18 is the thing Grasshopper was talking about.  If you look closely at the listings, they usually say 18C or 36C.  That is the number of conductors.  IEEE 1284 DB-25 to CN36 will always have only 25 wires in them.  This isn't enough, so forget using the dime-a-dozen printer cables, unless you are happy with 22 inputs, +5v and ground (no Shazaaam! function as the wires don't go that high on the CN36 connector).

What you need is a 6 or 10', CN36 to CN36, M/M 36C (or conductor) cable.  M/F will also work, but you can only use one side.

Hope this info helps.  In the mean time, I will look to see if other options exist for this kind of thing that are more current.

RandyT

[quarterback]

What you need is a 6 or 10', CN36 to CN36, M/M 36C (or conductor) cable.

This is good to know.  I didn't want to say anything ealier until I got my cable delivered and sliced it open to confirm, but I ordered a M/M CN50 50C to go with my swappable HD 'adapter".     

They had other CN50 cables marked 25PR and 19PR so, before I ordered anything yesterday, I googled around and came to the conclusion that the "50C" referred to 50 conductor, so I ordered that one.  (Does the PR refer to "twisted pair" or is it something else?)

This was all Google-detective-work on my part without confirmation, so when I read Grasshopper's post, I started getting nervous but, as long as the 50C nomeclature is accurate, I should be good to go, yes?

[richms]

Bumping a little bit, but has anyone actually mounted the connectors on a "box" which houses the removable controls so that they can simply slot the control panel into the cabinet and have them mate?

That works in the old style parallel ata swappable trays, but I am guessing the tollerances of those are a lot better then one would make with mdf - how well does the connector pair self centre when pushed together?

I was thinking of using drawer rails for my swappable panels, with some latches which held it in.

[Fozzy The Bear]

That works in the old style parallel ata swappable trays, but I am guessing the tollerances of those are a lot better then one would make with mdf - how well does the connector pair self centre when pushed together?

Not at all!! It'll work fine with just roughly correct alignment. A lot of fruit machine hoppers are fitted this way so that you can slide them forwards to re-fill them. They just run on a flat plate of MDF and two side pieces and work OK. With a centronics connector at the back and a socket on the rear board.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[padstack]

This is awesome, Grasshopper.  Now I just need to find a source in the US.  I wonder if there's a local electronics place where I can pick one up instead of paying $5 shipping for a $1 item. 
Thanks!

FWIW Farnell also have a US subsidiary. In my experience they're an excellent company to deal with. I always order components from them because they're generally cheaper than high street stores, have good service, and they don't charge extra for shipping. Unfortunately they do have a minimum order amount (£20 in the UK).

Their US subsidiary is Newark InOne @ newarkinone.com.  I work for them.  (and no, I won't mke anything from this post - just a lurker trying to help out)  Just a word of warning though, they have a $25 min (but will be waived if you order on-line) and you can get anything that farnell has in stock from england (but will obviously take longer - i.e. ~3 weeks).  Shipping can be killer though.  Cheapest shipping I've ever gotten was ~$8.  If you have a part number and mfg on one of these things, I can run it and post back on here.  I just want to be up front about the fact that we're known more for our selection than we are for low prices. 

[Level42]

If someone needs it, I've got a ribbon cable here with centronics connectors fitted. All you'd have to do is crimp an IDE header on it....not sure about all the wires etc. though.....I'm not using it so you can have it for shipping costs.