Author Topic: Replacement P360 actuators (better diagonals) $5 now! See kowal's posts, page 2. (Read 20375 times)

hypernova · « **on:** September 07, 2006, 04:03:57 pm »

I'm currently trying to get quotes to have a custom sleeve (actuator) made for the Happ Perfect 360.

I only need two, but since all the cost is in the setup of the machines and such, every local company is charging me in excess of $40 per piece. RobotronNut had 6 made at a local shop for $20 apiece. So as you can see, if more people join in, we ALL win! Now we have the option of emachineshop, thanks to bleemus for scouring the web, which lowers the price considerably!!

So is there ANY interest? I'm talking serious interest. If these were less than $10 apiece, who would want some, and how much? The more people that are committed to buying some, the less it will cost. If more people are interested, it may go down some.

The sizes I'm looking at are this:

Length: .678"
Inner Diameter: .375"
Outer Diameter: .541"
Material: Stainless Steel (Cheapest one. Style 304 or whatever.)

Someone said Kowal didn't have to color the outside with a permanent marker, but if it's necessary, it can be done. RobotronNut can testify to this. These are also the sizes recommended by RobotronNut.

If there is enough interest, we'll see what we can do!

Threads of interest:

My thread

Kowal's original mod

Please post if you want some, based on a per piece price of $20, and how much you would DEFINITELY buy.

Definites:
Myself-2
AmericanDemon-2
bleemus-2
luckydevil-2
somunny-2
ften-2
kremmit-2
RobotronNut-2

Probables
squirrel-4
AmericanDemon-2 more
whammoed-10

We're up to a possible 32, with 16 being definite. See latest posts on cost. Still discussing our available options.

albert_c · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2006, 04:14:11 pm »

Spiffyshoes makes his own P360 actuators out of PVC pipe.

nostrebor · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2006, 04:37:07 pm »

Quote from: kage 8 on September 07, 2006, 04:14:11 pm

Spiffyshoes makes his own P360 actuators out of PVC pipe.

Yup. I've done that too. Take your Micrometer to Lowes and start the measuring. Chech the oddball parts bins for PVC sleeves in the nuts and bolts section of the store.

somunny · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2006, 04:47:33 pm »

I'm interested. Depending on price, of course.

hypernova · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2006, 05:16:27 pm »

removed.

albert_c · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2006, 06:04:04 pm »

Sorry, the guys name is dreadedfist from the shoryuken.com forums.

RobotronNut · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2006, 07:07:06 pm »

i just put in a call to the shop that did mine.
will let you know what kind of quantity discounts they can provide.

RobotronNut · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2006, 08:12:21 pm »

i went looking briefly at shoryuken.com, but didn't have any luck. (perhaps you need to register to be able to search the forums?)

if anyone actually gets the PVC to work, or finds pointers to msgs claiming to have gotten it working, i'd like to see them.

given how small a variation is perceptible in game play, i'm skeptical about a PVC solution, but willing to be convinced otherwise.

AmericanDemon · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2006, 08:57:55 pm »

I would be interested in 2 - 4 of them. Definitely down for two to start though.

hypernova · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2006, 09:32:06 pm »

Overall, I'm a bit skeptical about PVC myself. Wouldn't the longterm compressing eventually crack/compromise in some way the PVC?

I'll edit my first post. When I get a new quote based on quantity, I want an accurate quantity. A quote based on 20 will be much different than one based on 12.

squirrellydw · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2006, 10:27:33 pm »

I would go for 4 if the price is right, hopefully $15 or less including shipping.

bleemus · « **Reply #11 on:** September 08, 2006, 03:27:02 pm »

I'm in for 2, just as long as they aren't too spency

whammoed · « **Reply #12 on:** September 09, 2006, 08:25:43 pm »

10 for me

hypernova · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2006, 11:02:29 am »

Seriously, whammoed???

whammoed · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2006, 08:00:10 pm »

Quote from: hypernova on September 10, 2006, 11:02:29 am

Seriously, whammoed???

I would be in for 10 if you can get them down to the $10 range or less, which should be do-able if enough are interested.

quarterback · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2006, 09:00:36 pm »

Quote from: hypernova on September 07, 2006, 04:03:57 pm

I'm currently trying to get quotes to have a custom sleeve (actuator) made for the Happ Perfect 360.

Threads of interest:
My thread

In that thread, Kowal says :

Quote from: kowal on September 04, 2006, 04:40:33 pm

for 20 $?
very road.
it for this price was it been possible to have full modkit

It appears that Kowal is saying that $20 would get you a full modkit like the one in that picture.

So, is that a photo of the item that's being discussed in this thread? Are we talking about a "full modkit"? or are you just talking about an actuator?

bleemus · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2006, 09:59:13 pm »

Using emachineshop, I plugged the following made with aluminum:

length: 0.678" (17.23 mm.)
inside diameter: minimum 0.371" (9.43 mm.)
outside diameter: 13.5 mm = 0.5315" = 17/32" (also 14 mm = 0.5512")

It came out with 203.87 for 50 (~$4 each), 235.37 for 100 (~$2 each).

Just throwing it out there.

Luckydevil · « **Reply #17 on:** September 11, 2006, 01:05:13 am »

Two for me please!

I'm a "definite."

RobotronNut · « **Reply #18 on:** September 11, 2006, 01:41:20 am »

Quote from: quarterback on September 10, 2006, 09:00:36 pm

It appears that Kowal is saying that $20 would get you a full modkit like the one in that picture.

So, is that a photo of the item that's being discussed in this thread? Are we talking about a "full modkit"? or are you just talking about an actuator?

no, kowal is referring to a mod to the suzo inductive joystick, not the ultimarc 360. he's just pointing out that he can make a whole custom joystick shaft, including balltop, for the price that we're paying for a simple, tiny cylinder.

this appears to be a custom balltop shaft for the happ p360. i just found this page on kowal's website.

kowal - do you sell these balltop shafts for the happ perfect 360?

Havok · « **Reply #19 on:** September 11, 2006, 08:35:34 am »

Quote from: bleemus on September 10, 2006, 09:59:13 pm

Using emachineshop, I plugged the following made with aluminum:

length: 0.678" (17.23 mm.)
inside diameter: minimum 0.371" (9.43 mm.)
outside diameter: 13.5 mm = 0.5315" = 17/32" (also 14 mm = 0.5512")

It came out with 203.87 for 50 (~$4 each), 235.37 for 100 (~$2 each).

Just throwing it out there.

If you could get the price down to about $5 each, I would be in for 2...

kowal · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2006, 09:53:30 am »

Quote from: RobotronNut on September 11, 2006, 01:41:20 am

this appears to be a custom balltop shaft for the happ p360. i just found this page on kowal's website.

kowal - do you sell these balltop shafts for the happ perfect 360?

first time I have to take back my SUZO handles (I have 2 months delays:P).
then I will make series MODkit P360.
I can make also only actuators (4-5$)

hypernova · « **Reply #21 on:** September 12, 2006, 07:35:29 pm »

Time to start using notepad...had a post all set, then opened up the emachineshop program, and it loaded emachineshop's page. Lost my whole post.

Shorter version:

I did my own quote using emachineshop with stainless steel and the original dimensions. Don't forget that the inner diameter of .375" accounts for most, if not all the 360 joysticks, and that the tolerance of the ID needs to be .001". (See the referal threads in original post for more info on this.) The OD I am assuming doesn't need to be accurate, so I left that as default.

30-$270 - $9.00 each
50-$350 - $7.00 each
100-$510 - $5.10 each

As it stands, there is only enough demand for around 30. I could potentially see getting around 10-20 more, but unless there's a HUGE spike in demand, I wouldn't get any more than 50 of them.

Quote from: kowal on September 11, 2006, 09:53:30 am

I can make also only actuators (4-5$)

How is your price so low, kowal?

kowal · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2006, 06:00:47 am »

Quote from: hypernova on September 12, 2006, 07:35:29 pm

How is your price so low, kowal?

Manufacturers count most costs for preparing production (set turning-lathe). It's nevermind if parts for production is simple or not. You pay for set machine, other costs (production) are very low (almost nothing).
I don't have these costs for preparing production

somunny · « **Reply #23 on:** September 13, 2006, 09:46:07 am »

For ten dollars or under, you can count on me for two.

bleemus · « **Reply #24 on:** September 13, 2006, 05:19:05 pm »

I would think that the outer diameter would need to be closer than the inner. Since the spring and the e-clip on the stick end up holding it pretty well in place on its own. Just as long as it is big enough, should be ok.

I mean, it would be good if they both were within .001, but i don't think that the inner diameter one would be the one to worry about... but I could be wrong.

The outer diameter has as 15 degree difference for a .5mm (or 0.019 inch). So that seems pretty important to me.

Maybe we can have kowal make a bunch and send them to someone in the US to distribute?

Also, on emachineshop, I noticed that even though the cost/unit is higher for aluminum over steel, the lathe cost ended up coming with a smaller quote for the aluminum; just something to check out.

hypernova · « **Reply #25 on:** September 13, 2006, 05:41:14 pm »

Quote from: bleemus on September 13, 2006, 05:19:05 pm

I would think that the outer diameter would need to be closer than the inner. Since the spring and the e-clip on the stick end up holding it pretty well in place on its own. Just as long as it is big enough, should be ok.

I mean, it would be good if they both were within .001, but i don't think that the inner diameter one would be the one to worry about... but I could be wrong.

The outer diameter has as 15 degree difference for a .5mm (or 0.019 inch). So that seems pretty important to me.

Maybe we can have kowal make a bunch and send them to someone in the US to distribute?

Also, on emachineshop, I noticed that even though the cost/unit is higher for aluminum over steel, the lathe cost ended up coming with a smaller quote for the aluminum; just something to check out.

In one of the reference threads, RNut stated that some of the sticks diameter are as large as .373 (I think) So the inner diameter would be a .375 with a .001 tolerance to accomodate all of them.

The OD, using RNut's recommendations, would be .541 +/- .019 as you found out. (I wasn't sure what to look for on the default tolerance.) So perhaps a tolerance of .003 would be acceptable to keep costs down.

This all may be moot as you suggested. If we can get a bunch from kowal, there's no preparation costs, so no wonder it's so low!

Kowal? How much would 30 cost? 50? Tell us a price, please.

(I'm trying to speak generically so it'll translate better for him.)

kowal · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2006, 05:47:59 pm »

Quote from: bleemus on September 13, 2006, 05:19:05 pm

I mean, it would be good if they both were within .001, but i don't think that the inner diameter one would be the one to worry about... but I could be wrong.

The outer diameter has as 15 degree difference for a .5mm (or 0.019 inch). So that seems pretty important to me

every series P360 is different. Every model is different- even in the same series!
establishing common measure has not sense.
I when I did for friends (from Polish) actuator I let always and 2-3 kinds (14/13,7/13,5). And they chose the best.

Quote from: hypernova on September 13, 2006, 05:41:14 pm

Kowal? How much would 30 cost? 50? Tell us a price, please.

I will know in several days, but this will be to cost little

ften · « **Reply #27 on:** September 14, 2006, 05:02:02 pm »

I'm in for 2 if they are under 10 a piece.

-FTen

Luckydevil · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2006, 12:05:02 am »

Just do the emachineshop route and have people start paying for them to get the ball rolling. People are going to start backing out if we wait to long.

Ten bucks each is completely resonable considering that you cant buy these anywhere.

bleemus · « **Reply #29 on:** September 15, 2006, 10:40:42 am »

Quote from: kowal on September 13, 2006, 05:47:59 pm

I when I did for friends (from Polish) actuator I let always and 2-3 kinds (14/13,7/13,5). And they chose the best.

That might be nice, just get a pack of actuators that we could try for the sticks we happen to have.

Unless there is a way that we can find out the series and model number to be able to get a specific one made, that might be our only choice.

Luckydevil · « **Reply #30 on:** September 16, 2006, 07:42:10 pm »

So is this gonna happen or not?

hypernova · « **Reply #31 on:** September 16, 2006, 09:58:59 pm »

Either we'll get them from emachineshop ourselves, or we'll have kowal do it for cheaper. (Not sure when he'll be able to do them though.)

But yes, this WILL happen sometime soon.

Kremmit · « **Reply #32 on:** September 17, 2006, 12:24:33 pm »

I'll take two.

hypernova · « **Reply #33 on:** September 18, 2006, 09:09:15 pm »

If I don't get confirmation from kowal by the end of the month that he can do these by mid October, I'll put in an order to emachineshop.
Wait...check that. I'll start taking orders and accepting money from everyone via paypal based on a final dimensions quote. I'll double check with bleemus to make sure I've done the part correctly in the drawing, since he's the only one who's done it also.

Look to start prepaying around October 7-14th, unless kowal can confirm he can do it in a short time frame.

I'll update again as necessary.

bleemus · « **Reply #34 on:** September 19, 2006, 01:03:49 pm »

I'll redo mine with the better tolerances and let you know what I come up with.

You should also price the actuators in aluminum, it came up cheaper than stainless steel even though it says it is a more expensive material in the listing.

Kowal says that there are many differences between different series, do we expect this to be a problem? Meaning, will we be able to make everyone happy with a single OD/ID?

Also, are we going to go for the full 45 degrees, or also get some that are somewhere in the middle, like robotronnut did?

bleemus · « **Reply #35 on:** September 19, 2006, 02:58:45 pm »

Here are the stats on what I priced:

OD: 0.541" +/- 0.001
ID: 0.375" +/- 0.001

Using aluminum 6351 - T6 (HE30-T6)

x50 shipped for 250.89 (~$5 each)
x75 shipped for 296.35 (~$4 each)
x100 shipped for 345.37 (~$3.50 each)

Using steel is more expensive with the lathe.

RobotronNut · « **Reply #36 on:** September 19, 2006, 05:26:27 pm »

Quote from: bleemus on September 19, 2006, 01:03:49 pm

Kowal says that there are many differences between different series, do we expect this to be a problem? Meaning, will we be able to make everyone happy with a single OD/ID?

Also, are we going to go for the full 45 degrees, or also get some that are somewhere in the middle, like robotronnut did?

if you really want the best play and highest scores you will want to try a range of sizes, but it takes more time and money. the whole process would be a lot simpler if it were "one-size-fits-all," and i think the 0.541" size would make most people pretty happy. my interpretation of kowal's note is that there is sample variation from unit to unit, and variation in preferences from player to player, so that there is no way to know which will be best for any given player without experimenting.

i think it would be asking way too much from hypernova to stock 3 different sizes, fill mixed orders, take returns, etc. i suggest he offer one size and, if there is interest, also offer kits of the 3 sizes that both kowal and i have made. but you'd have to make your choice up front and not expect him to take returns.

would anyone out there be willing to pay for kits of 3 (at 3X the price)?

hypernova · « **Reply #37 on:** September 20, 2006, 05:05:43 pm »

My time on the pc may be limited the next weekish. Having trouble with it shutting off on it's own. Should be a overheating problem, but I've never had one before, and I've only been able to get within 7 Celsius of the threshold so far. Haven't tried REALLY pushing just yet though...

Yesterday I couldn't load some sites as well, including this one...Yahoo and ebay and major sites worked, while most smaller ones didn't.

Back on to the acuators, I'm comfortable with Robotron's suggested values. Is anyone else NOT comfortable with those?

hypernova · « **Reply #38 on:** September 20, 2006, 05:59:18 pm »

Heyyyyyyyyyy, I just figured out what's going on. After opening up multiple video files, starting winamp, getting youtube to play, and opening a few photoshop ai files and NOT getting it to go over 70, I realized what it is.

Near the middle of spring or something, we moved the pc upstairs from the basement bedroom. It also is situated near...(everyone should have a light bulb brightening in their heads)...a heater vent. When I first put it there, I knew that may pose a problem, then forgot about it. Right now, the heater's not heating the house, so no wonder I couldn't do anything.

Although 70 is a bit high still, isn't it? (The acceptable threshold is 72 by default in asusprobe. I may need some more ventilation. and such. Which is easily possible.

hypernova · « **Reply #39 on:** September 25, 2006, 09:09:23 pm »

Nevermind. Figured out it was a power supply problem. It went kaput completely.

Anyways, just giving this a friendly bump to remind anyone who's possibly interested.


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