Replacement P360 actuators (better diagonals) $5 now! See kowal's posts, page 2.

[hypernova]

I'm currently trying to get quotes to have a custom sleeve (actuator) made for the Happ Perfect 360.

I only need two, but since all the cost is in the setup of the machines and such, every local company is charging me in excess of $40 per piece.  RobotronNut had 6 made at a local shop for $20 apiece.  So as you can see, if more people join in, we ALL win!  Now we have the option of emachineshop, thanks to bleemus for scouring the web, which lowers the price considerably!!

So is there ANY interest?  I'm talking serious interest.  If these were less than $10 apiece, who would want some, and how much?  The more people that are committed to buying some, the less it will cost.  If more people are interested, it may go down some.

The sizes I'm looking at are this:

Length:  .678"
Inner Diameter:  .375"
Outer Diameter:  .541"
Material:  Stainless Steel  (Cheapest one. Style 304 or whatever.)

Someone said Kowal didn't have to color the outside with a permanent marker, but if it's necessary, it can be done.  RobotronNut can testify to this.  These are also the sizes recommended by RobotronNut.

If there is enough interest, we'll see what we can do!

Threads of interest:

My thread

Kowal's original mod

Please post if you want some, based on a per piece price of $20, and how much you would DEFINITELY buy.

Definites:
Myself-2
AmericanDemon-2
bleemus-2
luckydevil-2
somunny-2
ften-2
kremmit-2
RobotronNut-2

Probables
squirrel-4
AmericanDemon-2 more
whammoed-10

We're up to a possible 32, with 16 being definite.  See latest posts on cost.  Still discussing our available options.

[albert_c]

Spiffyshoes makes his own P360 actuators out of PVC pipe.

[nostrebor]

Spiffyshoes makes his own P360 actuators out of PVC pipe.

Yup. I've done that too. Take your Micrometer to Lowes and start the measuring. Chech the oddball parts bins for PVC sleeves in the nuts and bolts section of the store.

[somunny]

I'm interested.  Depending on price, of course.

[hypernova]

removed.

[albert_c]

Sorry, the guys name is dreadedfist from the shoryuken.com forums. 

[RobotronNut]

i just put in a call to the shop that did mine.
will let you know what kind of quantity discounts they can provide.

[RobotronNut]

i went looking briefly at shoryuken.com, but didn't have any luck. (perhaps you need to register to be able to search the forums?)

if anyone actually gets the PVC to work, or finds pointers to msgs claiming to have gotten it working, i'd like to see them.

given how small a variation is perceptible in game play, i'm skeptical about a PVC solution, but willing to be convinced otherwise.

[AmericanDemon]

I would be interested in 2 - 4 of them.  Definitely down for two to start though.

[hypernova]

Overall, I'm a bit skeptical about PVC myself.  Wouldn't the longterm compressing eventually crack/compromise in some way the PVC?

I'll edit my first post.  When I get a new quote based on quantity, I want an accurate quantity.  A quote based on 20 will be much different than one based on 12.

[squirrellydw]

I would go for 4 if the price is right, hopefully $15 or less including shipping.

[bleemus]

I'm in for 2, just as long as they aren't too spency

[whammoed]

10 for me

[hypernova]

Seriously, whammoed???

[whammoed]

Seriously, whammoed???

I would be in for 10 if you can get them down to the $10 range or less, which should be do-able if enough are interested.

[quarterback]

I'm currently trying to get quotes to have a custom sleeve (actuator) made for the Happ Perfect 360.

Threads of interest:
My thread

In that thread, Kowal says :

for 20 $?
very road.
it for this price was it been possible to have full modkit

It appears that Kowal is saying that $20 would get you a full modkit like the one in that picture.   

So, is that a photo of the item that's being discussed in this thread?  Are we talking about a "full modkit"? or are you just talking about an actuator?

[bleemus]

Using emachineshop, I plugged the following made with aluminum:

    length: 0.678" (17.23 mm.)
    inside diameter: minimum 0.371" (9.43 mm.)
    outside diameter: 13.5 mm = 0.5315" = 17/32" (also 14 mm = 0.5512")

It came out with 203.87 for 50 (~$4 each), 235.37 for 100 (~$2 each).



Just throwing it out there.

[Luckydevil]

Two for me please! 

I'm a "definite."

[RobotronNut]

It appears that Kowal is saying that $20 would get you a full modkit like the one in that picture.   

So, is that a photo of the item that's being discussed in this thread?  Are we talking about a "full modkit"? or are you just talking about an actuator?

no, kowal is referring to a mod to the suzo inductive joystick, not the ultimarc 360. he's just pointing out that he can make a whole custom joystick shaft, including balltop, for the price that we're paying for a simple, tiny cylinder.


this appears to be a custom balltop shaft for the happ p360. i just found this page on kowal's website.

kowal - do you sell these balltop shafts for the happ perfect 360?

[Havok]

Using emachineshop, I plugged the following made with aluminum:

    length: 0.678" (17.23 mm.)
    inside diameter: minimum 0.371" (9.43 mm.)
    outside diameter: 13.5 mm = 0.5315" = 17/32" (also 14 mm = 0.5512")

It came out with 203.87 for 50 (~$4 each), 235.37 for 100 (~$2 each).

Just throwing it out there.

If you could get the price down to about $5 each, I would be in for 2...

[kowal]

this appears to be a custom balltop shaft for the happ p360. i just found this page on kowal's website.

kowal - do you sell these balltop shafts for the happ perfect 360?

first time I have to take back my SUZO handles (I have 2 months delays:P).
then I will make series MODkit P360.
I can make also only actuators (4-5$)

[hypernova]

Time to start using notepad...had a post all set, then opened up the emachineshop program, and it loaded emachineshop's page.  Lost my whole post.

Shorter version:

I did my own quote using emachineshop with stainless steel and the original dimensions.  Don't forget that the inner diameter of .375" accounts for most, if not all the 360 joysticks, and that the tolerance of the ID needs to be .001".  (See the referal threads in original post for more info on this.)  The OD I am assuming doesn't need to be accurate, so I left that as default.

30-$270 - $9.00 each
50-$350 - $7.00 each
100-$510 - $5.10 each

As it stands, there is only enough demand for around 30.  I could potentially see getting around 10-20 more, but unless there's a HUGE spike in demand, I wouldn't get any more than 50 of them.

I can make also only actuators (4-5$)

How is your price so low, kowal?

[kowal]

How is your price so low, kowal?

Manufacturers count most costs for preparing production (set turning-lathe). It's nevermind if parts for production is simple or not. You pay for set machine, other costs (production) are very low (almost nothing).
I don't have these costs for preparing production

[somunny]

For ten dollars or under, you can count on me for two.

[bleemus]

I would think that the outer diameter would need to be closer than the inner.  Since the spring and the e-clip on the stick end up holding it pretty well in place on its own.  Just as long as it is big enough, should be ok.

I mean, it would be good if they both were within .001, but i don't think that the inner diameter one would be the one to worry about... but I could be wrong.

The outer diameter has as 15 degree difference for a .5mm (or 0.019 inch).  So that seems pretty important to me.

Maybe we can have kowal make a bunch and send them to someone in the US to distribute?

Also, on emachineshop, I noticed that even though the cost/unit is higher for aluminum over steel, the lathe cost ended up coming with a smaller quote for the aluminum; just something to check out.

[hypernova]

I would think that the outer diameter would need to be closer than the inner.  Since the spring and the e-clip on the stick end up holding it pretty well in place on its own.  Just as long as it is big enough, should be ok.

I mean, it would be good if they both were within .001, but i don't think that the inner diameter one would be the one to worry about... but I could be wrong.

The outer diameter has as 15 degree difference for a .5mm (or 0.019 inch).  So that seems pretty important to me.

Maybe we can have kowal make a bunch and send them to someone in the US to distribute?

Also, on emachineshop, I noticed that even though the cost/unit is higher for aluminum over steel, the lathe cost ended up coming with a smaller quote for the aluminum; just something to check out.

In one of the reference threads, RNut stated that some of the sticks diameter are as large as .373 (I think) So the inner diameter would be a .375 with a .001 tolerance to accomodate all of them.

The OD, using RNut's recommendations, would be .541 +/- .019 as you found out.  (I wasn't sure what to look for on the default tolerance.)  So perhaps a tolerance of .003 would be acceptable to keep costs down.

This all may be moot as you suggested.  If we can get a bunch from kowal, there's no preparation costs, so no wonder it's so low!

Kowal?  How much would 30 cost?  50?  Tell us a price, please.

(I'm trying to speak generically so it'll translate better for him.)

[kowal]

I mean, it would be good if they both were within .001, but i don't think that the inner diameter one would be the one to worry about... but I could be wrong.

The outer diameter has as 15 degree difference for a .5mm (or 0.019 inch).  So that seems pretty important to me

every series P360 is different. Every model is different- even in the same series!
establishing common measure has not sense.
I when I did for friends (from Polish) actuator I let always and 2-3 kinds (14/13,7/13,5). And they chose the best.

Kowal?  How much would 30 cost?  50?  Tell us a price, please.

I will know in several days, but this will be to cost little

[ften]

I'm in for 2 if they are under 10 a piece.

-FTen

[Luckydevil]

Just do the emachineshop route and have people start paying for them to get the ball rolling. People are going to start backing out if we wait to long.

Ten bucks each is completely resonable considering that you cant buy these anywhere.

[bleemus]

I when I did for friends (from Polish) actuator I let always and 2-3 kinds (14/13,7/13,5). And they chose the best.

That might be nice, just get a pack of actuators that we could try for the sticks we happen to have.

Unless there is a way that we can find out the series and model number to be able to get a specific one made, that might be our only choice.

[Luckydevil]

So is this gonna happen or not?

[hypernova]

Either we'll get them from emachineshop ourselves, or we'll have kowal do it for cheaper.  (Not sure when he'll be able to do them though.)

But yes, this WILL happen sometime soon.

[Kremmit]

I'll take two.

[hypernova]

If I don't get confirmation from kowal by the end of the month that he can do these by mid October, I'll put in an order to emachineshop. 
Wait...check that.  I'll start taking orders and accepting money from everyone via paypal based on a final dimensions quote.  I'll double check with bleemus to make sure I've done the part correctly in the drawing, since he's the only one who's done it also.

Look to start prepaying around October 7-14th, unless kowal can confirm he can do it in a short time frame.

I'll update again as necessary.

[bleemus]

I'll redo mine with the better tolerances and let you know what I come up with.

You should also price the actuators in aluminum, it came up cheaper than stainless steel even though it says it is a more expensive material in the listing.

Kowal says that there are many differences between different series, do we expect this to be a problem?  Meaning, will we be able to make everyone happy with a single OD/ID?

Also, are we going to go for the full 45 degrees, or also get some that are somewhere in the middle, like robotronnut did?

[bleemus]

Here are the stats on what I priced:

OD: 0.541" +/- 0.001
ID: 0.375" +/- 0.001

Using aluminum 6351 - T6 (HE30-T6)

x50 shipped for 250.89 (~$5 each)
x75 shipped for 296.35 (~$4 each)
x100 shipped for 345.37 (~$3.50 each)

Using steel is more expensive with the lathe.

[RobotronNut]

Kowal says that there are many differences between different series, do we expect this to be a problem?  Meaning, will we be able to make everyone happy with a single OD/ID?

Also, are we going to go for the full 45 degrees, or also get some that are somewhere in the middle, like robotronnut did?

if you really want the best play and highest scores you will want to try a range of sizes, but it takes more time and money. the whole process would be a lot simpler if it were "one-size-fits-all," and i think the 0.541" size would make most people pretty happy. my interpretation of kowal's note is that there is sample variation from unit to unit, and variation in preferences from player to player, so that there is no way to know which will be best for any given player without experimenting.

i think it would be asking way too much from hypernova to stock 3 different sizes, fill mixed orders, take returns, etc. i suggest he offer one size and, if there is interest, also offer kits of the 3 sizes that both kowal and i have made. but you'd have to make your choice up front and not expect him to take returns.

would anyone out there be willing to pay for kits of 3 (at 3X the price)?

[hypernova]

My time on the pc may be limited the next weekish.  Having trouble with it shutting off on it's own.  Should be a overheating problem, but I've never had one before, and I've only been able to get within 7 Celsius of the threshold so far.  Haven't tried REALLY pushing just yet though...

Yesterday I couldn't load some sites as well, including this one...Yahoo and ebay and major sites worked, while most smaller ones didn't.

Back on to the acuators, I'm comfortable with Robotron's suggested values.  Is anyone else NOT comfortable with those?

[hypernova]

Heyyyyyyyyyy, I just figured out what's going on.  After opening up multiple video files, starting winamp, getting youtube to play, and opening a few photoshop ai files and NOT getting it to go over 70, I realized what it is.

Near the middle of spring or something, we moved the pc upstairs from the basement bedroom.  It also is situated near...(everyone should have a light bulb brightening in their heads)...a heater vent.  When I first put it there, I knew that may pose a problem, then forgot about it.  Right now, the heater's not heating the house, so no wonder I couldn't do anything.

Although 70 is a bit high still, isn't it?  (The acceptable threshold is 72 by default in asusprobe.  I may need some more ventilation. and such.  Which is easily possible.

[hypernova]

Nevermind.  Figured out it was a power supply problem.  It went kaput completely.

Anyways, just giving this a friendly bump to remind anyone who's possibly interested.

[RobotronNut]

Anyways, just giving this a friendly bump to remind anyone who's possibly interested.

i'd take 2. thanks.

[hypernova]

i think it would be asking way too much from hypernova to stock 3 different sizes, fill mixed orders, take returns, etc. i suggest he offer one size and, if there is interest, also offer kits of the 3 sizes that both kowal and i have made. but you'd have to make your choice up front and not expect him to take returns.

would anyone out there be willing to pay for kits of 3 (at 3X the price)?

Indeed.  It would also compound the cost factor for each person and me having to figure out what to charge each person.  Granted I could do it for you all, but I'm not sure enough people would want to do it to make it worthwhile.  I'm pretty confident in your recommendations, RobotronNut, and no one has made any remarks saying they weren't, so I think we're good.

[hypernova]

I will be getting ready to accept preorders on these things soon.  Before I do that, however, I want a general consensus on the type of material we want.  Here are some of our options.  (There are others, but they cost generally the same, if not within a few cents of each other apiece.  I'll also list what emachineshop has written down as each material's general usage.

These are based on a quantity of 50, without any kind of extra price for their shipping, or mine.  Their shipping is only $5.48 for all these things, so that markup will be minimal, and mine too.  See more info down.

Aluminum 6351 (Furniture, railings, and architectural applications.) - $4.62 ea.

Aluminum 2024 (Screw Machine Products, Aircraft Applications) - $5.17 ea.

Steel Carbon Type 1040 (Crankshafts, couplings and cold headed parts) - $5.11 ea.

Steel Carbon Type 1055 (Light stressed gears,crank shafts,axles, connecting beams,motor parts, general engg. Work, EN-19 is used for heat treated parts where high tensile and impact are required) - $5.57 ea.

Stainless Steel 316 (Food and pharmaceutical processing equipment, marine exterior trim, surgical implants, and industrial equipment that handles the corrosive process chemicals used to produce inks, rayons, photographic chemicals, paper, textiles, bleaches, and rubber) - $7.43 ea.

Stainless Steel 430C (Gears, bearings, seats, valves) - $7.32 ea.

Steel Type 4340 (Aircraft landing gear, power transmission gears and shafts and other structural parts) - $5.63 ea.

Can those regular steel types I also listed be used as well?  If so, that opens other options.  Knowing that aluminum is generally a weaker metal (or is my mind misinformed by products like aluminum cans and aluminum foil,) regular steel is an option at about a dollar more for each.  Even with the stainless steel being about $7.50 each, they'll still not cost anyone more than $10 apiece.

Concerning shipping:  I planned on shipping these via USPS first class mail, in order to keep that cost down to next to a stamp price.  However, I am a bit worried that some orders may be smashed enough to warp the cylinder to the point of being useless, which with our tolerances, means ANY kind of crushing would result in a damaged product.  Anyone got any ideas how to ship these via the USPS, but still provide enough security for the items to minimize/eliminate any damage possibilities?  I could just say screw it, and ship them in a small box with padding to ensure nothing happens, but that'll add a tad more to the shipping cost.  Couldn't be anymore than a few bucks though.  What's everyone's thoughts on this?

[RobotronNut]

w.r.t. material - the actuators are only there to block and unblock an optical path. the only significant stresses or strains they experience are the stress of the spring that holds them in place. i'm not an expert, but i'd think any metal would be plenty strong enough.

i chose stainless, because it is the least susceptible to oxidation. i would definitely avoid the non-stainless steels, because they can rust pretty quickly. stainless probably would also be less bothered by shipping in an envelope, but your best shipping option might be the small size prirority mail boxes that you can get free from USPS.

[hypernova]

I'd hope to avoid priority mail, as that's a $4 charge, compared to about $2 via first class mail.  First class can weigh up to 13 ounces however, so including packing materials (whatever they are,) first class may not be an option, but these are practically weightless, so I think 13 ounces should be doable quite easily.

i chose stainless, because it is the least susceptible to oxidation.

Ahh...forgot about that with all the talk about tolerances and pricing.  How much would you think oxidation be a factor when these will be exposed to normal air?  Although, with humidity obviously different in different regions, especially near coastlines or other large bodies of water, the other options would seem like a bad idea.  The lakes and such wouldn't be as bad, and I'm no climatologist or meteorologist, but I would assume any large bodies of water, especially oceans would compromise these things quicker than anyone would like unless they were stainless.

[bleemus]

I vote for the aluminum still.  I don't think stress will be a problem, and you're talking 3 more bucks per item for stainless.

I'll go for either though.  Thanks for putting this together!

[Kremmit]

I could go with Aluminum or Stainless. 

You can ship them in a small cardboard box but still go 1st class- you just can't use the boxes the USPS provides for Priority Mail.  FedEx provides very sturdy boxes for free, and the USPS doesn't mind you shipping stuff in them one tiny bit.  Just don't tell the guy at the FedEx counter that's what you want them for.  Wadded up newsprint from the local free classified paper can be had for free, and will fill the boxes nicely.  The weight will still be a bit more than if you put them in a padded envelope, but at .166 of an inch thick, they'll be awfully easy to deform without some protection.  Plus, you won't have to buy the padded envelopes.

[Luckydevil]

I prefer the aluminum. Stainless steel would just be a waste here. I think the less shiny the better also because we are dealing with light sensors.

[RobotronNut]

I prefer the aluminum. Stainless steel would just be a waste here. I think the less shiny the better also because we are dealing with light sensors.

my stainless are working fine, darkened with a black sharpie marker.

[hypernova]

I realized that duh, I have tons of boxes at work.  All seem a tad too large, but then I realized duh, that we have tons of inventory items, many with even smaller boxes that I can use.  And we have bubble wrap, so we're good there too, thus shipping will be fine.

[squirrellydw]

so whats the deal with these??

[hypernova]

I'm gonna open preorders within two weeks.  I'm going with the stainless steel, and they'll still be less than $10 apiece.  Final price is something I'll have to figure up by weighing a small box from work stuffed with bubble wrap to figure in shipping cost.

[kowal]

I folded already order. in 2 weeks I will get 100xactuators.
diameter 13,7 mm
height 19mm
price 5 $  material stainless steel.

[bleemus]

Ahh.  I guess kowal took care of this for us; hopefully that saves you some trouble, hypernova.

I bet kowal will be able to make money on them eventually, if he can make them for as cheap as he said he could.

Kowal, how much will the actuators be after shipping costs since you are shipping from outside the USA?  If the costs will be really high, maybe you could ship a bunch to one of us in the US and they chould redistribute them to other people inside the US.

[kowal]

this is small. I this can send as letter in protective envelope.
ship+packing
USA & UK
priority 2$

[hypernova]

What is the inner diameter?

[squirrellydw]

please let me know when you have them

[kowal]

What is the inner diameter?

9,6mm

[Havok]

Sweet! Keep us posted...

[kowal]

I have sample (I still wait on delivery 100xactuators)

box actuators:
one big box (5xactuator: 13,5mm|13,6mm|13,7mm|13,8mm|14mm)- units in stock 1
price 22$

one box (4xactuator: 13,5mm|13,6mm|13,7mm|14mm) - units in stock 1
price 17$

single actuators:

13,7mm - units in stock 1
price 5$

13,6mm - units in stock 1
price 5$

ship 2$ - priority, mail not be insured!

I can insure mail only to UK.
- it was it been possible to pay extra to confirmation conferments!


foto soon....

[bleemus]

Kowal, I sent an order to your e-mail account.

[kowal]

Kowal, I sent an order to your e-mail account.

he did not come (possible that filter atyspam did not let through).
send PM or kowal@itcom.pl

[Luckydevil]

kowal- email and pm sent.

[hypernova]

I've gotten my actuators.  Has everyone else who wanted one gotten them yet?

Problem though.  Kowal said that payment was supposed to go through ponyboy.  However, ponyboy has yet to pm me on the price, and when I tried pming kowal, it said he wasn't recognized as a valid username.  What's going on?

I'll try emailing him and see what happens.

[bleemus]

I just installed mine last night, and they work really well.  For me, they were only a slight difference, but it really balances out the diagonals.

I sent my money to ponyboy as well, and everything turned out well.  I think it took about 1 week or so to get everything set up, and then once he shipped, about a week for them to come to the US from Poland.

I am very pleased with them, I recommend them to anyone with a P360!

NOTE: They might go on a bit snug to the joystick shaft, but if you just spin them around to put them on, it knocks the burrs off and they fit perfectly.

[hypernova]

Bleemus, what's ponyboy's paypal so I can send my money to him.  I've yet to hear from him, and I'd rather pay now so I don't have to keep remembering later.

And yes, getting those things on is tight.  Do what bleemus stated to get them on, careful not to mess up the outside cylinder.

[squirrellydw]

How do I get some of these??

[bleemus]

Bleemus, what's ponyboy's paypal so I can send my money to him.

sales@rollieelectronics.com

How do I get some of these??

PM Kowal or send him an email at kowal@itcom.pl with your order.

[quarterback]

What size are people getting?

13,5mm, 13,6mm, 13,7mm, 13,8mm or 14mm?

[RobotronNut]

NOTE: They might go on a bit snug to the joystick shaft, but if you just spin them around to put them on, it knocks the burrs off and they fit perfectly.

there can be slight variability among shafts. IIRC, my slikstik stainless steel shafts were a little thicker than my NOS wico balltop shafts. you can use a little steel wool or ultra-fine sandpaper to touch up the shafts, if necessary.

[Luckydevil]

Guess I should be getting mine soon then. For those of you that have already gotten them, what shipping service do they come by?

[kowal]

Hi (they repaired me the account)
Lucky Devil
you should receive post office. this should reach in 1-2 weeks.
I sent actuators to Bllemusa, Hypernova and Luckydewil in the same day  
Wait still the week. It somewhere got lost maybe. I think that this will find itself. This will not add to anything. This nobody he could not steal because this does not have the value. Someone who this stole he would be the idiot.

[quarterback]

What size are people getting?

13,5mm, 13,6mm, 13,7mm, 13,8mm or 14mm?

[kowal]

13,7mm

[bleemus]

Guess I should be getting mine soon then. For those of you that have already gotten them, what shipping service do they come by?

I got mine USPS with the rest of my mail.

[quarterback]

13,7mm

Thanks for the confirmation.  PM sent

[Luckydevil]

Got them in a few days ago kowal. They look and work great.

THANKS!!!

[kowal]

this well I worried.
I in future will send airmail - this is dearer but quicker.