Making dual-joysticks / "twinsticks".. ?

[o-o]

Ive been thinking about making a sort of "twinsticks" / *dual-flightstick controller*
possibly using something like:
PC Quickshot GenX 500 and 500L(lefthand version) flightsticks
or Xbox/PS2 Pelican Tomahawk flightsticks (these any good?) or other ambidextrous type ?

Possibly by:
Connecting the buttons and main joystick(wires) of flightstick#2 to (or instead-of) some of the buttons and the top thumbstick of flightstick#1 (hopefully still retaining the full regular functionality of flightstick#1 [or both flightsticks] as a solo flightstick [when needed], maybe by using a switch, and jack/connector cable between the two flightsticks..)

Anyone else interested in finding a way to do this and have any ideas?

[ultramagnus]

as you can see by this topic http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=40758.0 i have been trying to do somthing similar myself

should be easy if you only want 4 axis and 4 buttons in total.

however if like me you want more (personally im trying to build somthing with between 6-8 axis and 20+ buttons) then im still stuck on finding a way to encode it so that windows only sees it as a single joystick

dont know of any device that i could hack either...

perhaps if you have some kind of IM program we could try to do more research together, i am having problems with people seeing me ATM though so you will have to PM me your IM addy if you want to

[NoOne=NBA=]

What is the end goal with this?


Obstacles I can see right off the bat with this are:

1) Maintaining analog control on Flightstick 2, while connecting it into Stick 1 as a digital controller (to replace the Hat switch).

2) Widows itself limits the number of axes per stick.
This means you will have to write custom drivers for whatever you come up with.

[o-o]

I mainly just want/need the joysticks to mimic the dual thumbsticks of an (single) Xbox/PS2 controller..
to function the same (with some buttons having duplicate function) as a regular controller, with any games (to use with appropriate style games: FSP mech, flying etc.. [Mechassault, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies are some specifics..])

As options (with switches or?), Id also like it to be able to if possible:
-retain original function as single flightstick
-function same as Saturn/Dreamcast twinsticks (if its possible to have analog joysticks send as digital?) by connecting extra wires to the appropriate button contacts, and having an extra generic cable-out to connect to a saturn controller adapter module..

Extra/redundant buttons (which go to the same contacts) can be connected in parallel/simultaneously can they? (I mean, you can have multiple [digital?] buttons connected to the same contact without any problem right?)

Knowing if the button contacts of a particular flightstick are all feasibly availlable to solder to is another thing though



ultramagnus,
Im wondering what games have you found that you want that many analog axises for that cant be controlled fully now?

[NoOne=NBA=]

I mainly just want/need the joysticks to mimic the dual thumbsticks of an (single) Xbox/PS2 controller.

That is possible, but I'm not sure of all the hoops necessary.
Quasicade doesn't sell their encoders that have this functionality built into them, but they got them to work in this mode.

-retain original function as single flightstick

This may require separate encoders to pull off.
You might look at doing this in a modular manner where you are tapping the actual signals themselves from inside the stick (pot position, button presses), and then can switch encoders depending on what you need to do with those signals.

-function same as Saturn/Dreamcast twinsticks (if its possible to have analog joysticks send as digital?) by connecting extra wires to the appropriate button contacts, and having an extra generic cable-out to connect to a saturn controller adapter module.

Again, if you use the raw signals, and then encode them afterward, you should be able to run the raw signal through a D-A converter prior to hitting the encoder, and convert the signal to digital.

Extra/redundant buttons (which go to the same contacts) can be connected in parallel/simultaneously can they? (I mean, you can have multiple [digital?] buttons connected to the same contact without any problem right?)

Yes and no.
You will need to diode isolate them, or any time you press button 1, it will ground out all the other buttons connected to it.

[ultramagnus]

ultramagnus,
Im wondering what games have you found that you want that many analog axises for that cant be controlled fully now?

mainly mech games such as mech warrior

although, was considering having only 4 normal axis and 2 more digital ones

[versapak]

I will never understand the desire to make an arcade control that has the analog twinstick function of the console gamepads. The games that use em are just NOT very good arcade games, and it just seems more logical to me to just use the gamepad.

Now I am sure there are some exceptions, like maybe the newer sports games, that offer up special controls to the right stick, but generally speaking it just seems like it would be a lot of extra hassle, with no real benefit.


Oh well...

Tis a build-your-own site, and not a build-what-Versapak-likes site, so good luck on the efforts all the same.


I'd actually like to here from people that have done this, or people who have purchased that ultra expensive quasimoto doohickey. I am curious how much that functionality really gets used.

[o-o]

That is possible, but I'm not sure of all the hoops necessary.

>retain original function as single flightstick

This may require separate encoders to pull off.
You might look at doing this in a modular manner where you are tapping the actual signals themselves from inside the stick (pot position, button presses), and then can switch encoders depending on what you need to do with those signals.

I was thinking just have the second flightstick controller just leach off the first one like that (using the first one as a sort of controller module box, connecting some of the second sticks buttons to the first sticks contacts.. and of the contacts _used_ on the first stick, sever the traces and connect its contacts to a switch, to be swapped between with the second sticks incoming wires, for the ones that would be needed with [just the analog?]).

It would basically be just wire swapping.
As far as I know those Pelican Tomahawk flightsticks do each have two analog stick controls just like a regular controller..

Again, if you use the raw signals, and then encode them afterward, you should be able to run the raw signal through a D-A converter prior to hitting the encoder, and convert the signal to digital.

I plan on using it (with an extra raw signal/contacts out cable) with to>Saturn and to>PSX/PS2 controller adapter modules, (then be able run through Dreamcast Dreamconnection adapter for use on DC also).  The D-A converter/conversion could be included in the Saturn and PSX/PS2 controller module boxes, or in the flightstick(s).. (and is something I need to know more about..: how simple is it to have analog sticks send digital?)

Yes and no.
You will need to diode isolate them, or any time you press button 1, it will ground out all the other buttons connected to it.

Which is fine if theyre all for the exact same intended button/contact right? (only one of them would be pressed at a time) (grounds of all buttons are usually allready all connected/continuous arent they?)
On the other hand, Xbox/PS2 buttons being analog... I guess I dont really know how those work

[o-o]

mainly mech games such as mech warrior

although, was considering having only 4 normal axis and 2 more digital ones

How would you want the extra two axises to be available?
(from my last search, there seem to be alot of ambidextrous PC flightsticks with an additional two-way swivel function..)

An idea I just had:
If possible, configure so that holding down a button gives a stick/axis control of a new control function, same with buttons for other sets of buttons, like a sort of "Shift" key for a lot more functions/axises using one stick/controller (not as good, but..)

Or/and if more axises can be digital, and youre using it on PC (which have an entire keyboard full of controls which things can be assigned to..?) You could have more axies if theyre digital.. (and analog sticks can be converted/adapted to send digital?)

[Adeptus]

I have a cheap PSX-to-USB adaptor. Without drivers, it detects as a controller with:

X & Y axis (the usual)
Z axis - analog (usually throttle?)
Z twist - analog (usually twist/rudder?)
Hat switch
14? buttons

So... you could theoretically have the second stick acting as Z-axis & Z-twist.

Not sure how you'd go about this, but thought the info might be useful and/or interesting...

[Adeptus]

Just found something interesting on eBay...

Playstation Twin Analogue Arcade Controller

Can switch between analogue and digital

looks like an official Sony product too.

[JB]

Just found something interesting on eBay...

Playstation Twin Analogue Arcade Controller

Can switch between analogue and digital

looks like an official Sony product too.

Yah. Sexy little chunk of hardware, and I wish I owned one.
It was replaced by the Dual Analog gamepad. Which was in turn replaced by the Dual Shock that we all know and loathe.

It's NOT Dual Shock compatible, and won't work with a lot of stuff.

[Kremmit]

Open it up, remove the pcb, and wire the controls to a Dual Shock PCB.

[o-o]

>Playstation Twin Analogue Arcade Controller

Yeah Ive seen those, thanks

Thats an idea (and the large buttons are kind of nice), but I was wanting:

-black
-to be able to use one of the sticks solo centered without the bulk of the rest of it
-to be able to adjust the distance between the sticks

I wonder what the quality of those are like..



How do the original/firstparty(/only?) Saturn flightsticks work?..

I have a Saturn Virtua Stick (US version 1) and its joystick is exactlly like a digital controller pad: its just has a rubber button-contact pad underneath

Is the Saturn flightstick like that, or does it have more range of movement like a regular flightstick, which is then translated to digital somehow (or is it analog also? [like a Nights Analog 3D controller?])

[JB]

>Playstation Twin Analogue Arcade Controller

Yeah Ive seen those, thanks

Thats an idea (and the large buttons are kind of nice), but I was wanting:

-black
-to be able to use one of the sticks solo centered without the bulk of the rest of it
-to be able to adjust the distance between the sticks

I wonder what the quality of those are like..



How do the original/firstparty(/only?) Saturn flightsticks work?..

I have a Saturn Virtua Stick (US version 1) and its joystick is exactlly like a digital controller pad: its just has a rubber button-contact pad underneath

Is the Saturn flightstick like that, or does it have more range of movement like a regular flightstick, which is then translated to digital somehow (or is it analog also? [like a Nights Analog 3D controller?])

The "Mission Stick" is analog.
In fact, the Nights pad is viewed as a Mission Stick by pre-Nights games.

[o-o]

Does the Mission Stick use some kind of analog-to-digital conversion..., or is it unuseable on games like Panzer Dragoon???

The only games I recal being able to actually use the 3D controllers' analog D-pad on were: Nights, Sega Rally, ShiningForce 3, Battle Garegga

[JB]

Does the Mission Stick use some kind of analog-to-digital conversion..., or is it unuseable on games like Panzer Dragoon???

The only games I recal being able to actually use the 3D controllers' analog D-pad on were: Nights, Sega Rally, ShiningForce 3, Battle Garegga

Mission Stick's pure analog.

Let me see if I can rummage a list of compatible games up...
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/saturn/file/mission_stick.txt
Copy/paste URL. GameFAQs doesn't like off-site linking.

Also covers Analog Pad compatibility. Most Mission Stick games work with the pad, but not all and not necessarily well.
Grand total of 27 stick games, if one assumes the list is complete(the author says it isn't).