controller for quadriplegic

[Tiger-Heli]

Well, about all I can offer to this is maybe to help 1hookedspacecadet with Analog to digital and PS/2 controls.

Easy explanation - A PC joystick (Saitek, etc.) is analog - it uses potentiometers to sense movement.  An Arcade joystick (Happs), is digital.

Generally analog joysticks are okay for digital games, but digital joysticks suck for analog games.

Example - play Tiger-Heli, Pac-Man, or 1942 on a PC Joystick.  It works okay, even though the game is meant for a digital controller.

Play Star Wars or Sinistar or or Paperboy, or as Peale said Pole Position with a Happs stick on your arcade cab.  It doesn't work well, because the stick is either up or centered, not 2/3 of the way up.

The PS/2 controller has 4 shoulder buttons, a D-pad, two joysticks, and 4 game buttons, and a start and select button.  On the PS/2, the D-pad is digital, the two joysticks are normally analog (but I think can be switched to digital by a button) and the action and shoulder buttons are digital (I think).

Most games primarily use the left analog stick and the lower diamond button (the one with an X on it), but most also use the other buttons, right stick, shoulder buttons, etc. for more advanced controls.

I am not sure if you would need to swap/adjust the range of the pots or not, but it should be very possible to hook two PC joysticks into the pots for the PS/2 controller sticks.  This gives you the two analog joysticks.  (I'm not sure if you could also make them work digitally, but that shouldn't be a major concern.).  The buttons are just a matter of soldering leads from the PS/2 controller button contacts to arcade buttons.

Setting all of this up on a panel so that Sean can operate two joysticks and eight buttons simultaneously with the heels of his palms will take a lot of work, but I'm sure the members of this board are up to the challenge.

At this point, it would be helpful to know what types of games Sean wants to play and what controls he would be comfortable with.

Not to completely change the course of the discussion, but someone mentioned MAME -  This might be a better option - All it would take is something like the joystick that Stevejt (sp?) mentioned and some arcade buttons, and a $40 computer with TV out.

The reason I am suggesting this is two-fold - most MAME games are digital joysticks - ON-OFF means fine motor control is less necessary.  Many MAME games require much less controls and coordination -
Pac-Man, Q-bert - Joystick
TimePilot, Galaga, Galaxian, Gyruss - Joystick and one button
Robotron - Dual joysticks, no buttons.

You won't find MAME games that need two analog sticks and 8-12 buttons, and that's a good thing in this case.

And (probably with some donated parts), a MAME system could be done for under $100.  We'd need one of Paige's $30 computers, though.   For that matter, Sean mentioned ViaVoice and is posting here, so assuming he is using his computer and not a central one at the nursing home, he probably could be running MAME, if we just built a controller.

I'm assuming also that Sean would enjoy classic arcade games, but who wouldn't (besides my wife . . .)

[RayB]

Sean,
A couple months ago there was another user on here asking about building a controller for his friend who is in a wheelchair. Are you that friend, or is this a coincidence?

I was just thinking, if that guy was talking about you, it would help everyone if he returned to the board and helped coordinate all this, since he's one person who has first-hand experience with your abilities.

If not, we know at least one other person may benefit from whatever comes out of this...

~Ray B.

[1hookedspacecadet]

Check this out -

http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=PL631

Pelican PL631 PS2 Arcade Fighter Fully Analog Joystick

Fully analog buttons

[1hookedspacecadet]

Another possible -

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=22&products_id=1012

Arcade style Joystick
 
Vibration force feedback compatible
 
8 way direction control
 
Turbo function
 
Slow motion function
 
Supports the PS2

[1hookedspacecadet]

Not alot of info on this one but it looks promising -

http://www.research.co.jp/MindStorms/JoyBricx/index-e.html

[1hookedspacecadet]

More possibles -

http://www.lik-sang.com/list.php?category=22&start=0&

[Arcadiac]

Good news, the Pelican stick is analog, Kev has the Universal model pl-950

http://www.pelicanperformance.com/index2.html

It functions as the left analog stick,I tried it myself on Killzone, could move forward, back, and strafe left and right just like the PS2 left stick.  But could not turn or look up and down as that would be a right analog stick function, however, could use the buttons to look up/down and left/right, somewhat unwieldy because one of the button is used for reloading and another for changing weapons.  I'm relearning a bit about the difficulties my son has playing games here too, Killzone sucks trying to play this way!

A D-pad and 2 of these may go far towards the solution.

Also see Reply # 17:
 http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=10%3baction=display%3bthreadid=17788

The Interact Pro Mini Arcade Stick functions basically the same, it appears that the Hais stick is very similar to this one.

A bonus is that both of these stick are already arcade style, so trying to adapt the stubby PS2 style analogs won't be necessary.

We have tried most of the available US options so please before throwing money at this project (I have done this for you already, looking for solution for my son Kev, believe it!), contact me and see if we have tried or have on hand the stick/solutions suggested. 
I will read the thread daily and will chime in when needed, anything to help.

I have available 1 used Universal PL-950 and also 1 near-mint Pro Mini to donate/send to whoever will be taking on the actual task of building and testing designs for Sean's joystick.     

We may also consider the trackball idea for analog #2, it may work just fine.
Or the ps2 keyboards that have analog sticks on both sides.

All we need is someone(s)? with the skills, trustworthiness, time, ability and oh yeah a PS2 to step up and help out.  And that's a lot to ask but if any group of people can get it done, I believe we can!

Look at all that has been proposed in less than a week, WOW!
Keep it up, ya'all are the best!

Hang in there Sean, you got a lot of great people here working for you!

Thanks again all, ARCADIAC!

[Layer01]

i dont even know if this is what your looking for ( i dont have time to read all the posts) but here's the link anyway:
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=22&products_id=4508

maybe it can help

[1hookedspacecadet]

Another shot based on Sean's comments.

[stevejt]

With reguards to the last pics:  Sean said he used the butt of his palm to hit buttons, also said he wanted his hand in a vertical position.  What is you took the above layout, but in stead of the butons being vertical,(when looking down from above), make them horizontal.  That way he could have his hand vertical and use the edge if ir to hit individual buttons.  Right now with his hand vertical, he would be hitting all of them at once.

Another thing:  he said he can hold a joystick with his palm and thumb.  What about a flight stick?  3 or so buttons AND a hat switch.  The hat could be wired as the digital pad, or just as buttons.

Steve

[1hookedspacecadet]

With reguards to the last pics:

[Arcadiac]

Looking real good 1hookedspacecadet.  Keep in mind though that the PS2 controller will need a stick for the d-pad itself, many in-game choices are made with it during gameplay.  I'm curious, 5 admin buttons?  What functions will they represent?   Keep up the good work, very generous of you to spend so much time towards this project.  Thank You, ARCADIAC!

[1hookedspacecadet]

Looking real good 1hookedspacecadet.

[Arcadiac]

"Ok, so that's what sean meant by a third joystick.  That would be to take over the inputs of the 4 buttons on the left of the game pad correct?" 

Exactly, and many fps shooters use r1, right top button, for primary firing, r2 for secondary.  Fortunately some games allow for reprogramming, so changing the functions around may be possible depending on the game.  FYI, flightsticks that we have tried have a very different, long kind of throw to them than regular joysticks/pads.  Kev tried them as substitute and they don't work very well.
Of course Sean's needs may be different, but I still think you are definitely on the right track.
ARCADIAC!   

[1hookedspacecadet]

"Ok, so that's what sean meant by a third joystick.

[Oddfeld]

I still don't think you're getting this vertical button thing - from Sean's description, I was envisaging something more like this:

[seanwheels]

hello, all right I appreciate the work you guys are putting into this you are really going to town.  I show and the Web site to 1 of the nurses here at desert sky and she was very impressed at everyone's willingness to help someone else and this is really cool to document everything  so that the next guy in my shoes can be helped out too.  I use yahoo Messanger for instant messagesmy address is zzzis4me@yahoo.comI like the way you have laid out the butttons guess I was wrong about the vertical idea space down in a semi circumference with each joystick being the centerI will get a nurse to measure my hand for me what I was saying 3:00 to 7:00 and maybe have each  joystick  a little farther apart and have the buttons  well spaced  otherwise i will hit more than 1 at a time-I was also taking that some sort of beanbag type surface to the bottom of that because it will be sitting in my lap thank you for the positive  posts and everything you are doing to help me out with this project

[Knoxximus]

Man I wish I had skills....but I do have that PS1 analog flight controller I'm willing to donate if it'll help.....

[1hookedspacecadet]

Just to keep everyone in the loop, SeaMonkey is going to setup a time to go see Sean so we can nail the layout in person.

[HarumaN]

I don't have anything to offer you guys right now, but I just have to say that what you all are doing is awesome.  It makes me happy to see fellow BYOACers helping out someone in need!

Keep up the great work!   

[Stingray]

Not alot of info on this one but it looks promising -

http://www.research.co.jp/MindStorms/JoyBricx/index-e.html

I have one of these and it does have analog sticks. However for whatever reason the analog sticks don't work with PS2 games. I assume the pots in the controllers are different. If anyone thinks that it can be adapted, I'll be happy to donate it to the cause.

Something else that I don't think has been considered yet. PS2 buttons are also analog. While I guess we could get away with digital arcade buttons it may make a difference in some games. Just throwing that out there for those who know more about this stuff than I do to consider.

Still willing to donate money to the project, as soon as someone posts a paypal address to send it to.

-S

[1hookedspacecadet]

Not alot of info on this one but it looks promising -

http://www.research.co.jp/MindStorms/JoyBricx/index-e.html

I have one of these and it does have analog sticks. However for whatever reason the analog sticks don't work with PS2 games. I assume the pots in the controllers are different. If anyone thinks that it can be adapted, I'll be happy to donate it to the cause.

Something else that I don't think has been considered yet. PS2 buttons are also analog. While I guess we could get away with digital arcade buttons it may make a difference in some games. Just throwing that out there for those who know more about this stuff than I do to consider.

Still willing to donate money to the project, as soon as someone posts a paypal address to send it to.

-S

Now that is disheartening.

[Stingray]

No, it's an official Sony controller. It works with PS1, and you can plug it into the PS2. The buttons work, as does the little switch that stands in place of the direction pad, however the analog sticks do nothing. It works fine on a PS1 on games that support analog controls. As I said, the only thing I can think of is that maybe PS1 analog sticks use a different pot than PS2 analog sticks.

-S

[Amra]

For those who seemed so upset at my original words, I would like to point out two things.

First off, I have a brother who IS a quadriplegic and thus have a somewhat more intimate knowledge of what it truly is to be quadriplegic then most people on this site.

So everyone will know, a true quadriplegic is a person with absolutely NO motor function in their arms, NONE.

[Stingray]

Amra give it a rest man. Sean didn't come here looking for a handout. He came looking to pay someone to make a controller for him. He wasn't looking for a handout. The offers of free labor and funding donations were all offered voluntarily out of the kindness of the hearts of some of the members here.

-S

[JThw8]

Check this out -

http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=PL631

Pelican PL631 PS2 Arcade Fighter Fully Analog Joystick

Fully analog buttons

[1hookedspacecadet]

All - I don't want this thread to turn into a bash session, if anyone is looking to do so, please start a new thread.

That said, let me try to reply to Amra as I think we just have a definitional issue happening here:

Amra, first let me say my heart goes out to your brother and your family.

[Amra]

1hookedspacecadet you are quite right, and I know many "incomplete" Quadralegics, as there are many that are in therapy, but there is one thing that is similar in all of them, their upper body use is extremely limited, and most lack the dexterity to even write their name, much less type on a computer.  If they have attained more then a certain amount of dexterity they are no longer classified as "incomplete" quadraplegics, and 'upgraded' to paraplegia.

Even with my knowledge, I am certainly no doctor, and yes, perhaps I was a bit harsh, but when I think of a quadriplegic, the first image that pops into my head is my brother, who cant even feed himself, much less play video games.  And none of the "incomplete" Quadriplegics I know can type, or play video games, but again my knowledge is based on my own experiences.

Thank you for the post 1hookedspacecadet.

[Tiger-Heli]

>Im not saying he is looking for a handout, Im simply asking that he use the correct >terminology, because people who DO have intimate knowledge of that affliction DO >take offence.  Which is why I took offence.

Okay, maybe the thread title should have been "Controller for incomplete quadriplegic", but for the majority of the board, that wouldn't have been any clearer, plus he has to use voice recognition software to post to the forum, so I'm willing to cut him some slack.

>so why even mention the disability if for no other reason then to gain sympathy?

Because otherwise he would get a bunch of replies saying "I like the dual Shock, or the Pelican, etc."

[Tiger-Heli]

And none of the "incomplete" Quadriplegics I know can type, or play video games, but again my knowledge is based on my own experiences.
Thank you for the post 1hookedspacecadet.

He never claimed he could type.  If you read the thread, he mentions ViaVoice, which is IBM voice-recognition software.

[shawnzilla]

I would also be happy to donate a little cash to help this controller become a reality for Sean.

[1hookedspacecadet]

To Shawnzilla and everyone else who has offered equipment, funds, resources, etc.  I have noted them though I have not had time to reply to the offers. 

I am taking this one step at a time, first step being to get the layout correct, SeaMonkey's visit with Sean should get us there pretty quick. 

Then I plan to (hopefully with everyone's help) take a hard look at the technical challenges based on the layout.  I think the biggest one is going to be the joysticks.  Not only choosing them and getting them wired to work, but also mounting them. 

After that I think we will have enough of a gameplan together to see what devices and equipment would be applicable and if any funds are needed, we can determine that as well.  So hang tight, keep the offers comming in, and we'll get there!

P.S. The same goes with all of the technical discussions and suggestions to date, I have not been replying to them though I am reading them and keeping them in mind as we move forward, please keep 'em comming in!

[dweebs0r]

Saint never replied as to if he can be "the banker" of sorts and take paypal donations.  I'm thinking if everyone here donated at least 5 or 10 bucks each we could get Sean built something that'd be pretty nice.

Happy holidays, folks!

--Dweebs

Edit:

Thanks Saint! 

[saint]

Sorry it took so long for me to reply. Yes, I am willing to be the treasurer for this if so desired. I want to give a big thanks to everyone who is tackling this, I think this clearly falls under the category of a "good thing" and to me, truly represents the spirit of the Internet and what BYOAC was started for (as a way of giving back to the Internet community).

Big props to 1hookedspacecadet and everyone else (forgive me, I'm at work and doing this in a rush) for moving this along!

--- saint

[Stingray]

Sorry it took so long for me to reply. Yes, I am willing to be the treasurer for this if so desired.

I think you're certainly trustworty enough. As soon as you post a paypal address I'll make a donation.

-S

[Mameotron]

Wow!!

[Jabba]

I have no arcade parts laying around that can be used for this project (other than a few buttons), so I'm offering to send money for this project. I know that this is going to a good cause.

Someone here should document this project for the next person in this situation. I could certainly help out in this area as I do tend to write a lot of technical documentation.

Good work to all who have replied. Seems as thought the Christmas Spirit is certainly alive and well at BYOAC!

Regards,

Garry

[saint]

Couple of things I want to throw out:

1. Just to give credit where credit is due -- BYOAC ads and donations bring in enough money right now to pay for the costs of hosting, and a little bit left over as well. The extra money so far has gone towards some of the books and tokens that have been given out, and also the $100 pledge towards this project. Everyone who has ever clicked an ad or donated or otherwise contributed to the site is due thanks for helping out here.

2. I am willing to take donations for this project right now. PayPal payments can be made to saint@arcadecontrols.com, or you can click the link below. If this falls through, any donated funds will be returned. However, bear in mind PayPal will take a bite out of it going both directions. If you'd prefer, you can simply post a pledge amount instead, payable only when the project actually moves forward. Either way.

Donate to Sean's new arcade controller

[Alpha17X]

-Sean has a disability.
-Sean can't use normal controls.
-Sean has requested help here because people here could build controls he could use.

Sean has stated that he is paying for time and supplies

THE END.
This is a primarily civil board. what's your issue?  My brother has a similar problem to Sean here. I'm really looking forward to what comes out of this so we can finally do something together again. Well something we used to do, so stop being jerks, those who are being jerks.

The level of patients  (sp?) in the admin and mods here is absolutely amazing. I would have site banned certain people a while ago.

[1hookedspacecadet]

Sorry all, no list of issues.