controller for quadriplegic

[seanwheels]

hello,Seanwheels here I am a quadriplegic I posted here a couple weeks back asking for information or assistance I am willing to pay someone for parts time and trouble of assisting me to build an arcade type controller for my Place station I can used arcade type joysticks and   I can use arcade type buttons. I have a Sony Play station until and the controllers are just too small for me to use them if I could build to a larger version proximal for 20 in. long by 9 in. wide the joysticks located approximately 8in from each side with two buttons of located on each side with 4 buttons located on each side of each Joy stick in a pattern similar to the human hand standing on edge on top of the joystick platform before I was injured by was a fabricator and machinist for Titan motorcycle company before that I was a stage rigger ido understand mechanics and if I had functional use of my hands I could build what I need  but if that was the case then I would not need 1  right if  any 1 of the members of this forum has the expertise that I need to complete this project I really would appreciate your assistance if I could do it myself I would unfortunately I'm kinda short on family and the maintenance man in the nursing-home and I am currently stuck in was not mechanically inclined enough to attach my play station to  my television. Seanwheels  Sean2U@ peoplepc.com

[Peale]

Hi Sean!  Welcome to the board!

Post your location, perhaps someone nearby can help you with things you may need.

[1hookedspacecadet]

Sean,

Welcome to the board!  I am going to see if I can sketch something based on your description to see if I understand what you are thinking about.  We're gonna get this sorted out.  It would help to know where you are located too.   

[1hookedspacecadet]

So working off this description,

"a larger version proximal for 20 in. long by 9 in. wide"

"the joysticks located approximately 8in from each side"

"two buttons of located on each side"

"4 buttons located on each side of each Joy stick  -

in a pattern similar to the human hand standing on edge on top of the joystick platform"

I threw something together with visio to see if this is what you are looking for or something similar.  Are you looking for something more like the PS2 controller itself?

I put in two different button layouts as I am having a hard time understanding, "...human hand standing on edge on top of the joystick platform"

Take a look and let me know what needs to be changed.

[RayB]

May I suggest overlaying a GRID (1 inch squares) on top of your diagram, and then labelling each line across the top with letters (A, B, C...) then label the lines down the side with numbers (1, 2, 3...) This way Sean can more easily describe where parts need to be moved and how far.

~Ray B.

[boesiii]

I'd be willing to help out if needed.

Check out infogrip.com, they have a couple of different types of switches and buttons for this situation.

[1hookedspacecadet]

Good suggestion.

[1hookedspacecadet]

I also checked out x-arcade's site.  They have an adapter for $19 that will port the x-arcade products to PS2.

http://www.x-arcade.com/adapters.shtml

http://www.x-arcade.com/two-player.shtml

Not sure if the x-arcade layouts will be ok though.

[Stingray]

But there's no analog stick support on an X-Arcade is there? That makes it pretty well useless for most PS2 games. I think I have maybe one PS2 game that you can play without analog sticks.

-S

[1hookedspacecadet]

But there's no analog stick support on an X-Arcade is there? That makes it pretty well useless for most PS2 games. I think I have maybe one PS2 game that you can play without analog sticks.

-S

Can you explain to me what the difference is?  I have always had a hard time understanding what exactly the analog issue is all about.  I suppose now is as good a time as any for some schooling.

[Peale]

Can you explain to me what the difference is?  I have always had a hard time understanding what exactly the analog issue is all about.  I suppose now is as good a time as any for some schooling.

A digital interface has an on/off approach, whereas an analog interface has a gradual approach.

If you play, say, Pole Position, and you use a digital pad to steer left, the wheel will be *hard* left, and you'll cut off the road.  With an analog control, you can use either a little or a lot of force to steer.

[Stingray]

Which of course brings us to the inevitable question, are there any arcade size analog sticks that can be used in place of the analog sticks on a PS2 controler for a project of this kind? Unless I'm mistaken, the only sticks out there that might work are pretty expensive. Has anyone actually done this?

-S

[1hookedspacecadet]

I found this link to a ps2 - > arcade controller hack.  I assumed if I were to build a controller I would have to sacrifice a couple ps2 controllers.  Take a look and let me know what you think. 

http://wrongcrowd.com/arcade/joystickp1.shtml

Don't forget to look at the title of the page that came up.  I did a double-take when I first found the article...

[1hookedspacecadet]

Also, check this out.

[locash]

I think the controller you found is a 2 player controller.  Unless I am mistaken, the controller seanwheels is looking for has 2 joysticks for 1 player.

I don't know much about analog controls, but can someone explain how they could be emulated digitally?

[saint]

I believe this person has limited gross motor skills in his arms but not fine motor controls, if I am recalling correctly.

[Shape D.]

Not to seem rude

Last I checked, I had thought it was rude to call someone a liar, and rip on the guy saying he's "pretending to be paralyzed" just to get a controller to use for his ps2.  Just to check where would he get a controller for this, sony? Sony could most likley care less about any of their customers, including those with special needs. So it seems the most obvious place to go for help with this would be.........
THE BUILD YOUR OWN ARCADE CONTROLS WEBSITE!

Not cool man, Not cool.

<edit> Sorry had to add additional venting. <edit>

[mozzer]

I apologize for this letter ahead of time, I just want the writer to realize that he doesnt need to pretend to be a quadreplegic to get people to help him, and to do something like that is just wrong.

You're going to feel like such an ass if he calls you out. Actually you should allready feel that way

[1hookedspacecadet]

I'm in the xmas spirit and am taking Sean at his word, but I do understand your concern.  Some quick homework tells me his classification, from an earlier post, indicates he has a more advanced range of motor abilities than you might think.


(Earlier Post) ----

/ Consoles / controller for quadriplegic  on: November 24, 2004, 01:48:18 AM 

hello, my name is Sean McCloskey.  I am a C-5-6 incomplete quadriplegic I recently purchased a Sony Play Station2 unfortunately I cannot use the controller successfully I have use of my Arms and limited use of my hands I do not have fine motor control needed to push the buttons and use the joysticks simultaneously do you know of a comptroller I can use so that I may game successfully thank you for any help or suggestions you may have . Sean McCloskey- Sean2U@peoplepc.com

(End Earlier Post) ----



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More on motor skills of someone classified as a 'C-5-6 incomplete quadriplegic '
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http://www.asia-spinalinjury.org/publications/index.html

ASIA Impairment Scale

The ASIA Impairment Scale uses the findings from the neurological examination to categorize injury types into specific categories. These categories allow researchers to identify the outcome of different injuries and degrees of spinal cord damage.

The following scale is used in grading the degree of impairment:

A = Complete. No sensory or motor function is preserved in the sacral segments S4-S5.
B =Incomplete. Sensory but not mr function is preserved below the neurological level and extends through the sacral segments S4-S5.
C = Incomplete. Motor function is preserved below the neurological level, and the majority of key muscles below the neurological level have a muscle grade less than 3.
D = Incomplete. Motor function is preserved below the neurological level, and the majority of key muscles below the neurological level have a muscle grade greater than or equal to 3.
E = Normal. Sensory and motor function are normal.


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http://www.spinalcord.org/html/factsheets/spin.php


The level of injury is very helpful in predicting what parts of the body might be affected by paralysis and loss of function. Remember that in incomplete injuries there will be some variation in these prognoses. Cervical (neck) injuries usually result in quadriplegia. Injuries above the C-4 level may require a ventilator for the person to breathe. C-5 injuries often result in shoulder and biceps control, but no control at the wrist or hand. C-6 injuries generally yield wrist control, but no hand function. Individuals with C-7 and T-1 injuries can straighten their arms but still may have dexterity problems with the hand and fingers.


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[Will]

Why would someone make this up Amra?The guy needs help because of his condition,he isnt looking for a handout and even offered to pay.Just because you know the difference between the word quad and pari doesnt make you an expert on his condition.He obviously likes to play video games but cannot because of the size of the ps2 controller.If I had the skills I would help build this for him.I personally would throw some money into a paypal account to help fund this project if it would help get it started.Just my 2 cents..

[Mameotron]

Not to seem rude or anything, but what good would one of these systems do for a real quadraplegic?

Man, that was real harsh.

[stevejt]

Hey Sean. Welcome To The Board! I am in NY, and would be happy to help if I am near you.  It seems like alot of other people want to help too.  If for any reason you are uncomfortable with posting on the board, or you think it just might be easier, you can get an individuals email address by clicking on their name, (most anyway).  You already can see who wants to help.  I am sure the people that want to help would be happy to communicate with each other "off board" to help you if for any reason you think that might be easier.  I am also sure you can realize that some people are just used to getting scammed online.  There are alot of people that pretend to be something they are not. 



Steve

[Arcadiac]

First off, Welcome to the board Sean!  Post when you can, you will be helping others here I guarantee it.  As you can see, most of us here are good folks willing to help where we can.  And the few insensitive idiots just don't matter, f'em!!
My son (a quadraplegic with cerebral palsy) loves to play videogames too.  We have had no success in finding an arcade joystick that fully emulates the PS/PS2 gamepad completely. 
The problem is that even when a stick is found that will emulate digital (the cross shaped control) and analog (the 2 dual joysticks) it will be a switchable type, single joystick.  Meaning that you can use either/or but not both at the same time, making it impossible to play most PS games that don't allow button customization for changing the movement, aiming controls etc. 
Get out a regular arcade stick and try to play Killzone and you'll see what I mean, forget it, doesn't work. 
A possible solution would require 3 sticks, 1 for the cross-shaped digital pad, and 2 for the dual analog joysticks, in a similar configuration as the PS2 pad pictured in a previous post.  But on a larger scale and including all the other buttons for the r1, r2, l1, l2, start, select etc., making it easier for a person who has difficulty using small, closely placed buttons due to a disability.
BTW, I wrote Sony regarding the possibility of adapting controllers or supporting games that support better configuration options.  Got a form letter back stating essentially that any unsolicited ideas submitted to Sony would then become their property, implying that they would use them without compensation or consideration.  Pretty much a corporate FU.
Much respect to those here who are looking to find solutions for this man, you will also help others, keep us in mind as this solution progresses.
LMK if I can be of assistance.
Also bear in mind that people who are disabled live on a very meager income, most times less than $600 a month, most all of it going for living expenses.  So expensive solutions may not be easy for Sean, help out as you see fit.
ARCADIAC!

Sidenote to AMRA:  I've never called out anyone on this board for their comments before but your mean-spirited, ignorant remarks are by far the most offensive that I have ever seen here, bar none.  Amra, keep in mind that being disabled is a minority that ANYONE can join at anytime through no fault of their own. Keep your prejudice and assumptions to yourself, your offensive comments were totally uncalled for.

[saint]

If someone can build a solution that will help Sean, I will fork out up to $100 towards expenses. The caveat is you have to document it so we can help the next person in this situation.

--- saint

[stevejt]

keep in mind that being disabled is a minority that ANYONE can join at anytime through no fault of their own.

Wise Words...

[mmmPeanutButter]

If someone can build a solution that will help Sean, I will fork out up to $100 towards expenses.
--- saint

I guess that's why they call you saint.   

[stevejt]

This might be a shot in the dark, but I can see this in my mind, and it might work.

[1hookedspacecadet]

Regarding the analog issue, it sounds as if we just need an arcade style or at least size analog joystick to hack to the ps/2 controller.  What about PC joysticks?  What do the Jakks games use?  Analog?

[Stingray]

Sean, I'm in Oklahoma. If by any chance you live here or even in an adjacent state feel free to email me at stingrayg4@gmail.com and we can talk about options for game controls that I might be able to build for you. I don't know if I can build you a PS