BYOAC Tokens!!! Now Accepting Pre-Orders.

[Matt, GoC]

Well, in the spirit of going overboard, I'm in for whatever sided coins.  I think using the MAME logo might not sit the best with the creator of MAME, but who knows?  Besides, not everyone uses just MAME on their cabs, anyway.  I think a joystick on one side (easily do-able), with "BYOAC Member" on the other side would be nice.  Since the members would be the ones ponying up for the coins, it should make mention of that fact.  I'd love to see that phrase embossed onto the coins that go into my BYOAC-inspired and influenced dream cab.  How does everyone feel about that?
-Apoc

[mp2526]

I'm getting in on this a little late, but I had put a little research in on this in the original thread and had planned to make an order but, as usual things kept coming up with a higher priority.

As was stated before, most quarter mechs will adjust somewhat to fit a .984 size token with about 90-95% reliablility.  I have several brand new coin mechs that I have successfully adjusted to accept .984 tokens that I would be willing to sell for $6 a piece plus shipping (and 8.25% tax if in Texas).  If anyone is interested I'll send you a pic.

I would be willing to pony up the die costs if after this first run I could "license" the art work and sell future tokens at a moderate profit.  I'm not looking for exclusive use of any artwork, just permission from whoever created it to use it to create future runs for these tokens with enough profit to make it worth my while (but not so much as to gouge you or future BYOACers.

Unfortunately, I don't have the cash flow to go ahead and make an entire run by myself, but would be willing to use my Paypal account as a holding for any money collected, as was suggested before.  And, pay the entire die fee (both sides), so that would make this initial order fairly cheap for you guys.

I can understand any trepidation anyone might have about sending in money, but I have sold a few items to several BYOACers that I believe will attest in my trust worthiness.  If everyone is in agreement to this, I'll step up and take on the duty of tracking how many people want in on this and of placing the order.

I have to run right now, but wanted to get this post out real quick, but someone can do the math and figure out what the price would be per 100 tokens  (now that the ~$400 die costs aren't an issue, don't forget to factor in the initial large quantity shipping though)

EDIT:  I'll try and remember to contact Hoffman Mint tomorrow or in the next few days to see what the shipping costs would be for an order.  And I'll verify the cost of the tokens, as the costs qouted in the original thread were given to me a little less than a year ago.

[mahuti]

[Aceldamor]

ok.....I'll change my vote to 35 for 2 custom sides if it will fit my quarter mechs...

Not too demanding on what is on which side,  I like the idea of the player 1 logo on one side with "Game Not Over" or "BYOAC" allong the perimiter of the coin and mabye a cabinet or a classic character on the other.

I really like the idea of the give some back to BYOAC thing...mabye something like Donate a percentage of profits to Saint..he has been responsible for this community....

[mahuti]

You can give back to Saint by clicking on his ads & buying his book.

[MikeAlex]

Yep. I'm in. 2 custom sides.

[Santoro]

Unfortunately, I don't have the cash flow to go ahead and make an entire run by myself, but would be willing to use my Paypal account as a holding for any money collected, as was suggested before.  And, pay the entire die fee (both sides), so that would make this initial order fairly cheap for you guys.

I think we have it under control.  Thanks anyway.

[Magnet_Eye]

DO NOT use that atomic MAME logo.. we need a simpler BYOAC logo.

i agree that MAME should NOT be on the tokens at all. Maby people build cabinets or controls that do not include MAME...

Adding MAME top the token would be leaving out some people.

new logo contest is needed!

[microwrx]

I'm up for the 2 sided tokens (and shipping to Australia, damn that's gonna be heavy).

[Lilwolf]

Can the sides be really custom?

I would like to see a BYOAC around the edge, and a logo in the middle.... and on the back game not over.

I would be up for some.

btw, its pretty easy to hack your coin mechs.  I hacked mine to take ANY coin.  Great piggy bank!  (the trick to hacking a coin mech is to remove all the items in the middle, and add some cut in 1/2 straws to make all coints no matter the size to get down the proper slot.)

[Santoro]

OK here is the deal.  I think the response to this thread has shown that we can move most of a 5000 lot of tokens.

It's a go!

As soon as I speak to the Mint and get the format they require the artwork in, I will start a new thread to come up with the Art.  

I was thinking on my way into work this morning, that 1) I agree the atomic logo is too complex, 2) putting MAME on the tokens might draw unwanted attention to the MAME team, and 3) people might want to use these for pinballs.

So here is my proposal.  While it would be really cool to have customization on both sides, I think that for the sake of realism and cost control, we should have one 'stock' side like pictured below, and one custom side that we decide in a new "contest" thread.  If we don't mention MAME, It might be hard to fill two sides. {edit:this is just a suggestion.  The group is paying here, so we all get to decide.}
{{edit again, It seems like the counts for double sided customization are very strong.  Let's go with that.}}

As for the finances, I am not out to rake in the cash from this, but I don't want to take a bath either.  For the sake of full disclosure, this buy will go on a credit card, so I want to cover my costs.  I would probably tack 2 bucks onto each order above cost to cover my credit card interest and numerous trips to the post office on the part of my lovely wife.  I think this is entirely fair.  I will post the cost information as soon as I get it so that there is full transparency.

My next proposal might be more controversial and I won't do it if I get clear feedback from the group that it is not acceptable.  I was thinking of buying a lot of 10000.  Because I am taking a significant financial risk if the second 5000 doesn't sell, I would still charge the 5000 lot rate to help mitigate the risk, though I would still lose a bunch if they didn't go. I f they do sell I would make a small profit.  Does anyone have huge objections to this? I think in the end it will benefit the group by having a supply available for newcomers in the future.

[mmmPeanutButter]

Isn't safe to say that a majority of the people here use MAME?  Or am I just way off?

[Santoro]

Isn't safe to say that a majority of the people here use MAME?

Definitely, but many of the same people have pinball machines.  I am flexible, I was just making a suggestion.  If it gets into a heavy debate, maybe we will need to vote.

[Teknique]

Im in for a double-sided set.

Tek

[MinerAl]

In.

I'd rather it be a BYOAC than a MAME design.  How about the one from the hats?

[mp2526]

Unfortunately, I don't have the cash flow to go ahead and make an entire run by myself, but would be willing to use my Paypal account as a holding for any money collected, as was suggested before.  And, pay the entire die fee (both sides), so that would make this initial order fairly cheap for you guys.

I think we have it under control.  Thanks anyway.

OK, no problem, wasn't trying to steal your thunder, just trying to make good on the original thread!

[patrickl]

In.

I'd rather it be a BYOAC than a MAME design.  How about the one from the hats?

What does the hat look like (guess I missed that one)? Have a link for me (I really can't seem to find anything anymore with the search function of this forum)

I'd rather have something generic on the coins rather than MAME too. Allthough something like a Pac Man character would be fun too  

I don't see what pinball machines have to do with this though. Why would a BYOAC logo work better for a pinball machine than a MAME logo?

[Mr. Dude]

I voted for 2 custom sides.  If they work with my quarter coin mechs I would love to purchase some!

[SirPeale]

Why would there be an objection to your making a profit?  

Seriously, if you do the legwork, and bust your hump, and foot the cash, you damn well *better* expect to make a return on your investment.  Do you think I sell locks and disconnects for what I paid for them?

[DarkKobold]

It may just be me, but I think if you are going to put MAME on the token, it should at least be the real MAME logo, i.e. , the italized font. No offense to pixelhuggers, but it just doesn't look like MAME

[AmericanDemon]

Whoa whoa whoa Peale....  what are you saying here?  Your not the kind of guy who likes to lose his skin for others?  

The reason the BYOAC design is better for pinballs.....  you don't use MAME on a Pinball Machine.  MAME has no place in it.  

[patrickl]

The reason the BYOAC design is better for pinballs.....  you don't use MAME on a Pinball Machine.  MAME has no place in it.  

Yet you do use BYOAC on your pinball machine?

[AmericanDemon]

BYOAC is a gathering.  Its a community of gamers and these tokens represent people who are a part of this community to play games.  If you have a pinball machine then its part of your game room, its part of our community.  Get it? Got it? Good!  

[Santoro]

Why would there be an objection to your making a profit?  

Seriously, if you do the legwork, and bust your hump, and foot the cash, you damn well *better* expect to make a return on your investment.  Do you think I sell locks and disconnects for what I paid for them?

I thought about not mentioning it, but since this is a community effort to come up with a cool product I wanted to be up front about it.  It's a little different from the locks scenario.

[Santoro]

Anyone with more knowledge than me about the MAME license want to take the task of researching if there is a problem with using The Logo?

Come to think of it, Kelsey, you out there?  Did this cause you any problem with the engraved Spinner knobs?


{wouldn't be a Santoro post without spelling corrections!}

[Tilzs]

They sell cocktail "MAME" overlays so I can't see that doing a few tokens is really going to make anyone upset.

If you are going to do 2 sides, I'd suggest something that is really custom, meaning not just take a pacman logo or a player one logo. I think the cost of the token should be worth what one is paying for it. I mean I can go buy any old generic tokens off ebay for much cheaper.

For the record I like MAME on one side and BYOAC on the other. I dont' see why there is such a big deal about putting MAME on a token. The majority of the people on the board have a mame machine anyhow. From a marketing point of view, I think that if you ordered a lot of tokens, you'd have a much easier time selling them (on ebay or whatnot) with a MAME logo on it than with something more generic.

[Stingray]

I'm totally interested in getting some of these. Without even seeing any preliminary designs, I know that the members here will come up with something worth buying. I would greatly prefer two sided custom and and am willing to pay extra for it. Also I have no problem with replacing my mechs if needed. I don't understand what everyone's hangup about replacing their mechs is. They're cheap enough and take all of about 10 seconds to swap out.

-S

[patrickl]

BYOAC is a gathering.  Its a community of gamers and these tokens represent people who are a part of this community to play games.  If you have a pinball machine then its part of your game room, its part of our community.  Get it? Got it? Good!  

So you mean they are part of BYOAC and have most likely built a MAME machine too? Yes I got it   er ... oh ... no I don't ... I guess  

[mp2526]

Anyone with more knowledge than me about the MAME license want to take the task of researching if there is a problem with using The Logo?

Come to think of it, Kelsey, you out there?  Did this cause you any problem with the engraved Spinner knobs?


{wouldn't be a Santoro post without spelling corrections!}

Technically you should get permission from the MAME website guy.  He came up with the design.  And on his site he actually states that you can use the logo for personal reasons, but he requires permission if you are going to make money off it.  Yes there are probably tons of people out there who didn't get permission and you could probably get away with out getting it, but...

I actually went as far as trying to contact the guy when I was looking to produce tokens, but he would never respond to any of my emails.

[AmericanDemon]

BYOAC is a gathering.  Its a community of gamers and these tokens represent people who are a part of this community to play games.  If you have a pinball machine then its part of your game room, its part of our community.  Get it? Got it? Good!  

So you mean they are part of BYOAC and have most likely built a MAME machine too? Yes I got it   er ... oh ... no I don't ... I guess  

You so crazy.    Exactly or something like it.  Custom!

[DrewKaree]

Santoro, I would have no objections to your "run of 10,000" idea since you're putting the wheels in motion and (hopefully) bringing this to fruition.  

I see and understand the logic behind NOT using MAME on the tokens.  This is, after all, BYOArcadeControls, not BYOMameMachine.  That is a point well taken.  

Your idea for artwork submissions is a good one, as more folks may/might find out about this and thus ensure more sales, perhaps even making 'em cheaper.  

I don't yet know how you propose to have funds submitted to you, BUT.... what about setting something up now and also start artwork submissions.  That way, when the consensus is reached on the design, you'll be able to turn this out quickly, making everyone on all ends happy, and you'll have a better idea of whether or not you will be able to sell the OTHER 5,000.  I'd hate to have you eat the cost, and don't mind that you'd make a profit.    Actually DOING something has costs, be it mental work or physical work, and you have every right to charge for your efforts, after all, none of us wanting to buy 'em from ya have done anything other than say "yeah, I'd like some-o-dat".

[DrewKaree]

....btw, its pretty easy to hack your coin mechs.  I hacked mine to take ANY coin...(the trick to hacking a coin mech is to remove all the items in the middle, and add some cut in 1/2 straws to make all coints no matter the size to get down the proper slot.)

Please, for myself and anyone else concerned with this issue, explain more in depth, or with pictures, so that it can ease our minds and resolve this part of the token size problem.  

I don't mean to take this OT, but the size seems to be the only "I dunno" in anyone's mind, and your explanation of the solution be greatly appreciated  

[jcoleman]

Hey folks...the token size issue needs some consideration.  I personally have .900" token mechs, this apparently being the most popular size for tokens.  What are the options?

Coleman,
who already has about 500 tokens, and whose wife will kill him if he buys 200 more just because they have a nice logo

[mp2526]

The problem with explaining how to hack a coin mech, is there are so many out there.  I typically attack the problem by taking the size token I am aiming to use and run it through the mech several times being careful to watch where it gets stuck.  Sometimes there are screws that will allow for an adjustment here and there, sometimes it requires you to bend some metal or shave some plastic to get the coin to work.  Sometimes, no matter how much you work at it, some mechs just don't hack easily.

I might try to get a basic tutotial up on the web if I get some free time this week.


And on the note of .900 tokens being more popular, that may be true, but they aren't more popular than quarter mechs, which in my opinion are easier to hack for the .984 token.

[Psychosylph]

I would be interested in some, either one or two sided.  Would really like to see "Game Not Over" on them, though...

[Santoro]

OK here' s the deal.  I need to go with Tokensdirect because they take AMEX Blue. I spoke to them and here is the 5000 lot price calculation:

2 custom dies @ $195 - $390
5000 Tokens @ $69 per thousand - $345  ($69 is the rate from Hoffmanmint - Tokensdirect was a lot more.)
Shipping & handling- $90
   Total from TokensDirect: $825US
5000 Tokens /200 per lot = 25 lots
$825/25 lots = 33
$33 + $2 to cover credit card interest, packing, etc.  

Total price, $35 plus shipping.

I started a new thread in the artwork forum for the design and also linked to it in the first post of this thread.

[SirPeale]

The MAME logo doesn't have anything to do with the MAME project, interestingly enough.  It was created (by a woman!) by Exodus3D (don't know what her real name is).  She's stated that she doesn't want the logo used for a commercial project, but small runs of stuff (T-Shirts, stuff like this) don't apply.

Do a Google for her, you should find her page.

Edit: I just did, and found it, but there's not much there.

[Stingray]

I think this would qualify as a small run of stuff. Honestly you see the MAME logo everywhere. I can't imagine that anyone would have a problem with it used on this project.

FWIW I prefer Pixelhugger's logo. I'm pretty sure he'd be willing to modify it to better suit use on a token. Has anyone approched him about this yet?

-S

[mp2526]

The MAME logo doesn't have anything to do with the MAME project, interestingly enough.  It was created (by a woman!) by Exodus3D (don't know what her real name is).  She's stated that she doesn't want the logo used for a commercial project, but small runs of stuff (T-Shirts, stuff like this) don't apply.

Do a Google for her, you should find her page.

Edit: I just did, and found it, but there's not much there.

You are correct, but I was referring to this page where they state the following

http://www.mame.net/features.html

The usage is free for non-commercial purposes (such as websites), for any commercial purpose (includes use in magazines), please ask a permission from the webmaster.

I tried to contact the webmaster but got no response.

Stingray, I agree this would probably qualify for a small run, but if you wanted to continually run these tokens  and make a profit off them, then you might piss someone off, or might not.

[Santoro]

In case anyone missed my edit above, I started a new thread in the artwork forum for the design and also linked to it in the first post of this thread. The thread has been stickied.