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Author Topic: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)  (Read 3737 times)

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riley454

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Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« on: January 30, 2010, 02:48:20 am »
I read through heaps of info here and many other places, but can't find any basic measurement discussions on the layout of a control panel.

I'm just starting my first project which is simply a 2 player USB connected control panel with joystick and 4 buttons per player(which suits most of my wanted games) with as few as possible sundry buttons for coin/start etc. as it will be a short term fill-in controller used in conjunction with my keyboard and monitor until I can find space, money and time for a full size cabinet.

I've decided on my stick/button layout from http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html(What an amazingly helpful site. If you're constructing any part of a console or cabinet you should bookmark it!) and I've decided on the alignment and spacings from one of the layouts.

My problem though is I can't find any solid opinions or accepted minimum standards for measurements on the following...

-The acceptable space separating Player 1 buttons from Player 2 Joystick
-How much space on the panel left of P1 Joystick to comfortably rest your hand
-How much space below controls for lower part of the hand to sit during play

From my research I'm planning about 8" between player controls, 5" left of P1 Joystick and about 3" below controls. That gives me a CP width of about 34" but I'm still undecided on the depth. I'm hoping that eventually I can possibly use the same panel in a cabinet instead of rebuilding when the time comes.


SavannahLion

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 01:49:34 am »
There is no real standard despite what slagcoin states.

Best thing to do is to construct a mock CP out of cardboard and see what flies for you.

GaryMcT

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 02:16:59 am »
Best thing that you can after doing the cardboard mockup is to build one and try it out with your friends.  It took me a ton of iterations before I got something that I like (and I still haven't built a final one!)
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


shateredsoul

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 02:45:22 am »
thanks for the site! It will be very helpful!

Nacimroc

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 08:49:52 am »
If you are building a "box" control panel then place them where you like. If there is a piece of timber going from your CP and an angle down to the front piece this will dictate how far back your controls must be after your joysticks and buttons (with microswitches on) clear this angled piece. 

If your CP overhangs the sides, then your joysticks must be far enough in to clear this.  It all sounds obvious, but I made that mistake very easily and forgot about the size of the joystick base.

bkenobi

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 11:07:37 am »
Best thing that you can after doing the cardboard mockup is to build one and try it out with your friends.  It took me a ton of iterations before I got something that I like (and I still haven't built a final one!)
That's probably because you nailed the design on a prototype.  Now you are content to play with it rather than finishing the real thing.   :cheers:

GaryMcT

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 01:25:12 pm »
Best thing that you can after doing the cardboard mockup is to build one and try it out with your friends.  It took me a ton of iterations before I got something that I like (and I still haven't built a final one!)
That's probably because you nailed the design on a prototype.  Now you are content to play with it rather than finishing the real thing.   :cheers:

That is partially true. :)

I've ended up not being able to deal with the latency and refresh rate problems of Mame under Windows, so I'm exploring other options.  In the long term, I'm learning how to code hardware so that I can help get whole boards running on FPGA chips (inspired/helped by MikeJ at http://fpgaarcade.com).  In the short term, not sure yet what I'm doing.  If I could find a single-board system that has a fast CPU and an FPGA for implementing the video circuit, I'd just do that.  I haven't been too lucky finding that quite yet.  Another option is to use Linux and code an FPGA card that is just a dumb framebuffer with flexible timings and audio out.  Only problem with that is that the Linux side of that work feels like work, which is something I try not to do for my hobbies. :)

On a different note, my wife surprised me with a gp2x wiz for xmas.  It's pretty snappy and doesn't have the latency problems of Mame on Windows.  I wish the dpad didn't suck so bad though.  There is a mod to fix it, but I haven't gotten the nerve to do it yet.  Basically the pad prefers diagonals over anything else.

I think the machine with the proto control panel is going to soon be running a JROK multiwilliams board.  I need to finish wiring it up so I can play Robotron all day long and make no progress on anything else.
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


riley454

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 05:18:31 am »
I'm more than happy with the slagcoin.com layouts, but I'd love to get ideas on spacings between P1 and P2 controls and available CP room to rest each players hands during gameplay. The cardboard panel test works fine for individual controls, but only during gameplay can you really test how much space between players and around each players controls. What is the bare minimum?

markronz

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 11:54:27 am »
I don't have any exact measurements to offer here.  But I just wanted to say one thing.  You might want to consider where this arcade machine is going to.   I'd venture to guess that most places only have 32" doors.   If your control panel is 34" that might be a PITA.   I made this mistake with my first arcade machine.   With the second arcade machine I made the CP 31".  This way it fits in most doorways.   Now of course, you could always make the CP detachable, but that's not always fun either. 

Just something to consider anyway.    And I concur with others in that you should always build a test control panel.  It's all about personal preference and that's the only way to tell what will work for you.

helpmebuild

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 01:16:50 pm »
I have recently found that it works really, really well to use what would be the dimensions of an old Midway 4 player CP and use it for a 2 player CP for mame. I have a CP which is 36.75" wide x 13.5" high which used to be a 4 player design but really awkwardly laid out and uncomfortable, and designed that same space around 2 players and found it to be very comfortable in testing it out. I would recommend the dimensions I've used and just drawing a line down the center and laying out your 1 and 2 player layouts in the center of each half. It worked for me, but much like everyone else has said, its really just preference.

riley454

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 04:26:50 am »
I have recently found that it works really, really well to use what would be the dimensions of an old Midway 4 player CP and use it for a 2 player CP for mame. I have a CP which is 36.75" wide x 13.5" high which used to be a 4 player design but really awkwardly laid out and uncomfortable, and designed that same space around 2 players and found it to be very comfortable in testing it out. I would recommend the dimensions I've used and just drawing a line down the center and laying out your 1 and 2 player layouts in the center of each half. It worked for me, but much like everyone else has said, its really just preference.
Feel free to post or PM me a way to see your layout.

My biggest issue in my design process is separation between 2 players. 2nd biggest is making sure the CP is big enough to support the players hands.

SavannahLion

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 09:03:49 am »
My biggest issue in my design process is separation between 2 players.

I used to stress over that as well, but it dawned on me one day that it really wasn't as big a deal as I thought it was.

Some cabinets have the players pretty close to each other (The "Z backs" used with SFII comes to mind, but I'm sure there's others) where you're basically bumping each other in the elbows. Then you have your cabs with player settings so far apart, you can park a wheel chair in there, like Gauntlet. On the MAME scene, some people pack two players into the width of a centipede while others spread them out so far apart, you can theoretically land a Cessna on their CP (#4 and especially #11 at CrapMAME are really good examples of excess distance). It boils down to preference.

Think about a two player cabinet you really liked in the arcades, then get the dimensions and derive your new CP from those dimensions. Don't stress. If, even after the cardboard mockup, you construct your CP, you ultimately find you don't like the layout. Pull the top off and start over. Every CP I put together has a top that can be removed (with more or less work) and replaced.

Quote
2nd biggest is making sure the CP is big enough to support the players hands.

My current CP project is only 14" wide. I originally had it designed to be 12", but I realized (after a sketchup session) the inset prevents any management buttons, I pushed it to 14". I have a "lazy" stick hand where I rest my wrist on the panel, but I have an "active" button hand where it floats (unless I'm in a long game then it goes lazy). Therefor, I tend to have more space around the stick and less around the buttons. When it comes to supporting players hands, I prefer depth over width.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 09:08:00 am by SavannahLion »

Necro

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 10:21:36 am »
Suggestion for Mockup - buy some hard board.  I think Home Depot calls it 'Hardyboard' and make it out of that.  My CP is 24" wide...I think... so I managed to get a good number of 'blanks' from a 2"x4" piece of board to use in developing my CP.

(Figures that my first configuration seems like the one I'm ging with, however, for aesthetic reasons in addition to just liking how it feels with a SFII setup :) )

SavannahLion

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 02:01:28 am »
Are you serious? hardyboard? IIRC, that stuff is compressed fiber cement board. Were you playtesting your mockups in the shower?  ;D


Necro

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2010, 02:12:58 pm »
Not cement board - hardboard.  Home depot has it labeled as 'Hardyboard' or 'Handyboard' or something like that. 

I think your thinking HardiBacker - sometimes called Hardyboard for some reason.

And anyway, so what if I have a MAME shower  :angry:

riley454

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2010, 06:48:08 pm »
I used to stress over that as well, but it dawned on me one day that it really wasn't as big a deal as I thought it was.


Thanks Savannah it seems that same day for me is today. Time to stop procrastinating and get on with the job. I appreciate everyones advice. ;D

SavannahLion

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2010, 10:12:03 pm »
Not cement board - hardboard.  Home depot has it labeled as 'Hardyboard' or 'Handyboard' or something like that.

I don't recall anything called hardboard there. Do you mean that HDF stuff?


I think your thinking HardiBacker - sometimes called Hardyboard for some reason.

Shoppers at HD tend to use the terms interchangeably. Construction guys know exactly what they want and beeline for the materials at 5AM. Those Yokels you see in the store after 9AM have no idea what to call anything anyways. In any case, I always figured it stemmed from hardieboard.org or it was a Brit thing.  :dunno
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 10:14:24 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: Designing a basic control panel layout(my 1st project)
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2010, 09:53:16 am »


url=http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html]http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html[/url




Thats a cool site