nooby cp questions

[hooded_paladin]

Noob here...  I've got some quick questions for you experienced people, then some more detailed info if you care to read it.

I'm planning the construction of a 4-player standalone CP - 6 buttons for players 1 and 3 and 4 buttons for 2 and 4, then a trackball in the middle, room for a spinner above it, 8 coin / start buttons and 4 joysticks all around.

1.  Where's the best place to get a trackball?  And I mean cheap.  I'm thinking PC trackball, because they've got buttons, don't need another interface, and are CHEAP.  The CompUSA one would be ideal but I can't find it online (I'll have to check my local compusa)  Or, I could get a logitech one from Ebay for <$10, but the cases are so bulbous it would be hard to mount.  Advice?

2.  Do I need a real 4-way joystick?  I'm planning on having 4 supers, which are switchable, and some way of getting at them (hinges or a hole or something), but I've heard that their switching mechanism is a joke.  Is there another switchable type that's better?

3.  Is a 3/4" plywood (or particle) case topped with Lexan okay?  I just don't know how you get nice holes for the buttons into the lexan.



***extra info***
4 person simple angled wood panel
layout (starting from left)
super joystick, six buttons (3 across 2 down), super joystick, 4 buttons (2x2), trackball and space above it for a spinner (added later), super joystick, six buttons (3 across 2 down), super joystick, 4 buttons (2x2) (plus a row of start / coin buttons on the top)
I want a cheap, but large-balled PC trackball with two buttons.  Why does it need two buttons?  I plan to use 3 playstation controllers as the interfaces - 3 joysticks attached to the directional buttons (the 4th one attached to function buttons on the 1st)  then all the buttons attached to the remaining function buttons.  14 inputs each controller, but that's 2 short.  I need two on the trackball, which would actually be really neat cuz I could use it as a real mouse.  I would use playstation controllers because I have two two-controller USB adapters (one of them reads the directions as both axis and buttons, one of them reads the directions as just axis) or for actual playstation games. As for the case, it would be a simple lexan-topped angled wood case, but on the back I would have a system of alligator clips or quick disconnects for quick rewiring (to support any button scheme on the playstation)

***

Anything I need to watch out for?  all I can say is, I'm very cheap.  I won't even be able to afford this for several months.  But I have nothing better to do than plan (fantasize)  Thanks so much.

[Tiger-Heli]

1.  Where's the best place to get a trackball?  

2.  Do I need a real 4-way joystick?  Is there another switchable type that's better?

3.  Is a 3/4" plywood (or particle) case topped with Lexan okay?  I just don't know how you get nice holes for the buttons into the lexan.

I want a cheap, but large-balled PC trackball with two buttons.  Why does it need two buttons? I need two on the trackball, which would actually be really neat cuz I could use it as a real mouse.  

Q1 - I got this trackball http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_acc_mactrack.html It works pretty well for a PC trackball.  Shipping is high on one, but not bad for two or three.  I never got the buttons to work in MAME, though so this might not be the one for you.  Works fine as a mouse, though.

Q2 - Switching Happ Supers involves prying off the E-clip (and hoping you can find it again) and flipping the actuator over.  You would do better with www.oscarcontrols.com restrictor plates or the J- or T- sticks from www.ultimarc.com.

Q3 - Sure.  You can drill in Lexan, just not in plexi, spade bit or hole saw.  I would think the hole saw would work better.

[hooded_paladin]

Why don't the buttons on the trackball work?  That looks like a great mouse but I'd like to verify that it'll work first.  And those T-Sticks look mighty yummy, although an order of 4 will cost $92!
(btw, nice excerpt of my post.  I ramble  )

[hooded_paladin]

I've got more fun for y'all  (yeah right)

is there any reason not to get a T-Stick from ultimarc?  Is it just as good as a super from happ?

if I cover my case with lexan, can I just cut a big hole in the wood for the trackball and fit the ball through the lexan instead of routering out some wood?

I don't quite have an idea as to how to cut holes in the lexan... drill holes into the wood, then place the lexan on top, anchor it, and drill right over the holes?  would that prevent cracking?

is there any way that the buttons on a usb trackball (namely, the one he linked to)  wouldn't work in mame?  I find it hard to believe that they don't work

then, I just have $125, a zillion questions and quite a bit of work between me and my panel.  Thanks again yo.

[kspiff]

The Happ Super is considered by most an inferior product (myself included -- I don't like the actuators on them).. plus the T-Stick has 4/8-way switching.. in the least, I would get Competitions.

Without routing, I think you would need a trackball mounting plate..

Once again, the best way to do this is with a router as well.. use a flush bit to route the lexan flush with the holes.  You can probably get away with using a hole saw or forstner bit, though, most people have cracking probs with plexi.

The last question I'm not sure about .. I would guess you can use mouse buttons as input for normal buttons in MAME, but have never tried.

[Tiger-Heli]

Why don't the buttons on the trackball work?  That looks like a great mouse but I'd like to verify that it'll work first.  And those T-Sticks look mighty yummy, although an order of 4 will cost $92!
(btw, nice excerpt of my post.  I ramble  )

Don't know.  I would assume it's a driver issue.  The buttons work in Windows, and my other mouse buttons work in MAME.  I haven't tried a USB mouse in MAME, though!  BTW, Win98SE and commandline MAME, and if anyone else knows, I'd like the answer as well.

Don't worry about rambling, you didn't mention the buttons being important until the end of your post, and I might not have mentioned them not working otherwise.

[Tiger-Heli]

>is there any reason not to get a T-Stick from ultimarc?  Is it just as >good as a super from happ?

BTW, you don't necessarily need 4 T-Sticks.  Very few if any games used more than a single 4-way.  (Might look/feel funny with two different sticks on your panel, though).

Supers are for classics, Competitions are for fighters, with some exceptions.  See the reviews at www.oscarcontrols.com.  Also search the forum here for reviews on the ultimarc sticks.

Biggest drawback I see is having to get under your panel to switch from 4 to 8 - way.  But someone had a post about running a lever to the front of the panel to switch the mode on the blue-handled stick.  Maybe Rampy can dig it up!

I would consider this method, except that I need OSCAR's restrictors for my trigger-fire stick hack anyway, so I may as well use them on my main sticks as well.

>if I cover my case with lexan, can I just cut a big hole in the wood for >the trackball and fit the ball through the lexan instead of routering >out some wood?

A PC trackball like I mentioned will be difficult to mount.  I'm using a desktop control set-up, so don't care.  It can be done, but it's not simple.  Also the ball is 2", not 2.25", so a mounting plate probably won't work with it.

A simpler solution is a T-ball mounting plate ($10 from www.therealbobroberts.com, 2.25 inch arcade trackball ($25 from www.wicothesource.com or www.ultimarc.com), and OSCAR USB mouse interface with buttons $13 from www.oscarcontrols.com.  But this might be beyond your budget.

>I don't quite have an idea as to how to cut holes in the lexan... drill >holes into the wood, then place the lexan on top, anchor it, and drill >right over the holes?  would that prevent cracking?

Agree with K-Spiff, cracking shouldn't be a problem.

>is there any way that the buttons on a usb trackball (namely, the >one he linked to)  wouldn't work in mame?  I find it hard to believe >that they don't work

They don't work!!!  Seems odd to me too!  (You can use mouse buttons as normal buttons in MAME, if the buttons register, BTW).

[Lilwolf]

My 2 cents..

trackball....  Dont bother with a PC one... They just aren't up to snuff... Wait until you can get one.  But remember they are like $25 bucks to get the wicco 2 1/4" ones (the centipede  size)... These are also cool because you can replace them with true pool table balls (put a 8ball or 9ball in it)...

Oscar has some hacked usb mice for 10 bucks each (9 I think)...

And a restrictor plate (you need these EVER if you have a router... routing wood down that thin makes them too weak to hold up to one good temper tantrum...  Even a weak snooty fit)

But your looking at 50 bucks to get something in a cab... all new.

Don't go with a used one on ebay.  many are just such crap that you need to replace enough items to make them smooth they aren't worth it.  There are some new ones sold on ebay, but they go up to 40-50 bucks for the trackball itself (but their 3" ones).


4ways-  DON'T USE SUPERS and don't worry abou them right away.  Leave a space for it, and see if you actually want them.  They ARE nice!  If you play classic games YOU WANT one... But do you have to have one?  no...  But just consider getting one of the switchable ones and use that for player 1.  You will be happy.

WOOD - use MDF... much more forgiving... And you don't sand for days to make it nice and smooth.  Then you can use paint...  But plywood and lex will do if you have too...

[Tiger-Heli]

Clarifying what Lilwolf said:

trackball....  Dont bother with a PC one... They just aren't up to snuff... Wait until you can get one.  But remember they are like $25 bucks to get the wicco 2 1/4" ones (the centipede  size)...

I just said that!

Oscar has some hacked usb mice for 10 bucks each (9 I think)...

The $9 hacked mice don't have headers to connect the buttons.  The $13 hacked mice that I mentioned do.  The OP said t-ball buttons were important.

And a restrictor plate (you need these EVER if you have a router... routing wood down that thin makes them too weak to hold up to one good temper tantrum...  Even a weak snooty fit)

Lilwolf means the $10 mounting plate that  I mentioned.  OSCAR sells restictor plates, but that's another issue.

4ways-  DON'T USE SUPERS and don't worry abou them right away.  Leave a space for it, and see if you actually want them.  They ARE nice!  If you play classic games YOU WANT one... But do you have to have one?  no...  But just consider getting one of the switchable ones and use that for player 1.  You will be happy.

The "thems" above refer to 4ways, not supers, FWIW.

Here the questions come down to:  Will it really bother you to have one joystick different from all the others?  Do you mind buying Happ sticks and knowing that eventually, that money may be thrown away when you switch to T- or E- or J- Sticks?

[hooded_paladin]

Decisions, Decisions...

I'm thinking one T-Stick and 3 Competitions... how many games actually need two 4-ways?  So, are competitions the way to go?

Then, I think I'm going with the PC trackball.  It's pretty, it's easy to hook up to the PC, it's cheap.  I am neither experienced nor rich.  If that pathetic cardboard mounting job for ... that one guy, I dunno ... worked, anything I do probably should.
If the buttons don't work in MAME, I'll get another Playstation controller and use those inputs (heck, that'd make 4-player playstation possible)
If I use MAME32 (which I do)  the buttons would still work in Windows, so I could use the trackball and a doubly-connected player button to select games.

The joysticks come with adequate mounting hardware, right?  Why do some people have bolts visible and some people don't?  What I plan on doing is having one big sheet of lexan cover the entire rectangular surface (the underside of it would be painted black for prettiness)  and I hope that the sticks are mountable.  The happ "pushbutton with horizontal microswitch" says it's long enough to fit in 3/4" wood and lexan.  I'm thinking that for the trackball, I can just cut away lots of wood, leave a hole in the lexan for the marble, and do a wooden underneath-plate (vocabulary please) to keep it pressed into the top.

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm thinking one T-Stick and 3 Competitions... how many games actually need two 4-ways?

Not many - Crazy Climber and Karate Champ, maybe . . .  I think that's about it.

>So, are competitions the way to go?

Ahhh, the age old question!!!  Read the reviews and learn Grasshoppa'  Hard for me to say since I don't play fighters.

The supers have a very circular feel and are best for classics (Time Pilot) and Capcom??? (or SNK???) Fighters where you need to make round moves.   And they have those little spring actuators which can be a pain to adjust.  The Comps have a square actuator which makes for very precise diagonals on the SNK??? (or Capcom???) fighters that want this.

>If the buttons don't work in MAME, I'll get another Playstation >controller and use those inputs (heck, that'd make 4-player >playstation possible)

Let me know if the buttons work for you in MAME!!!

>The joysticks come with adequate mounting hardware, right?

They come with no mounting hardware at all.

>Why do some people have bolts visible and some people don't?

Your options are 3/16th's (or 1/4-inch) carriage bolts (visible from the top), wood screws mounted from the bottom, or countersunk machine screws mounted from the top.

> underneath-plate (vocabulary please)

support shelf?  Bracing plate?  (I know what you are talking about).

[hooded_paladin]

I'll use wood screws from underneath.  I don't particularly like the sight of bolts on top.  I like some fighting games, but it makes very little difference for me so I think I'll get competitions.  For no reason.  Woot!