Trackball question, rusty bearings ?

[spystyle]

Hello from Maine,

Well gosh this is my first trackball install.





A Neo Geo Gauntlet with trackball ? Is it an abomination? I think maybe it is

I got an old Betson Imperial and it doesn't roll, so I opened it up and the bearings are rusty.







Where can I get new bearings for this?

Thanks
Craig

UPDATE : Solved ! Just search eBay or Google or your hardware store for :

Bearings "R4 ZZ"

[dezblack]

Happs controls sales them, I once had shafts worse off than those, I just soaked them in simple green a few days and cleaned them right up! Those bearings look really bad off though.

[northerngames]

talk to divemaster over on the buy sell trade he can get them to you for a good deal.

[spystyle]

talk to divemaster over on the buy sell trade he can get them to you for a good deal.

OK I'll look for that guy

Edit = Hey I found him :

http://arcadeemulator.net/

Happs controls sales them, I had one once worse off than those, I just soaked them in simple green a few days and cleaned them right up! Those look really bad off though.

Oh that's an idea, I actually have some high tech rust remover called "Evaporust"

http://www.evaporust.com/

I'll give them a soak

I thought maybe the hardware store might have some bearings too, I'll take a look but I'll probably find that theirs are the wrong size.

Thanks,
Craig

[drventure]

I've seen bearings in Lowes. No idea if they're the right size though

Possibly rollerblade wheel bearings might work.

Those look pretty bad off. Not sure if soaking would help much.

[tightwad]

http://cgi.ebay.com/REPLACEMENT-ROLLER-BEARING-SET-FOR-3-HAPP-TRACKBALL_W0QQitemZ380193269905QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item588548e891

Pretty cheap repair kit, includes bearings and shafts.

[spystyle]

Hey that is a good price, it includes 3 shafts and 6 bearings, as far as I can tell.

Good old eBay, the cause and solution to most problems

Thanks,
Craig

[Encryptor]

http://cgi.ebay.com/HAPP-CONTROLS-3-TRACKBALL-REBUILD-KIT-MAME-TM-G-T_W0QQitemZ280450472166QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414c2698e6

Encryptor

[spystyle]

Hey that too is a good price Thanks

[RandyT]

Just make sure you get the right rollers.  HAPP rollers do not fit Imperial TB bodies.  The length and diameter are both different.

RandyT

[spystyle]

Hi Randy

I just brought the Imperial bearing to my local hardware store and amazingly I found a match. The label on bearing from the hardware store reads:

.250 ID
.625 OD
.1960 width

"precision ball bearings"

But I didn't buy them because they were insanely expensive.

What are the dimensions of the Happ bearings?

[RandyT]

What are the dimensions of the Happ bearings?

The bearings are the same.  It's the rollers that differ between the HAPP and Imperial models.

RandyT

[spystyle]

OK thanks

[SirPeale]

You can probably loosen those right up by drenching them in 3-in-1 and spinning them with a drill.  It'll break that rust right up.  Then flush it out with a solvent (which one is your choice, as long as it doesn't leave a residue) and put one more drop of 3-in-1 on and spin again to lube it up.

[spystyle]

I'll have to pick up some 3-in-1 and try that, thanks

[tightwad]

I wouldn't bother with the time to try and de-rust the bearings (the shafts sure, they are not critical).  Even after multiple rounds of 3-in-1 the bearings will never be quite right...they get sloppy.  you can get 10 new bearings for $12.50 here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-R4-ZZ-Z-New-Quality-Bearings-25-x-625-x196-R4-ZZ_W0QQitemZ370179504100QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item56306af7e4

The bearing you are looking for is R4ZZ (or any other suffix, just changes the shielding).


Use 6, keep 4 for spares or pass them to another needy soul

[spystyle]

Sweet

Bearings "R4 ZZ"

You just have to know the right keywords to search for I guess.

Thanks!
Craig

[smalltownguy]

Thanks for posting this! There will be a LOT of people who are searching for trackball bearings that get directed to this post. Is there anyway to ensure that information like this gets posted to some kind of wiki? I'd love to see a collection of "here's a great place to get this" info. It's getting difficult these days to find OEM stuff.

[spystyle]

I think there is a trackball page for arcade wiki, and I think users can edit wiki ... So I think you can add this information where you see fit

I'm going to wikipedia now to say I invented Dig-Dug

[RandyT]

I wouldn't bother with the time to try and de-rust the bearings (the shafts sure, they are not critical).  Even after multiple rounds of 3-in-1 the bearings will never be quite right...they get sloppy.  you can get 10 new bearings for $12.50 here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-R4-ZZ-Z-New-Quality-Bearings-25-x-625-x196-R4-ZZ_W0QQitemZ370179504100QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item56306af7e4

It should also be mentioned that buying these types of bearings will save you some money, but you will still need to do something to remove the heavy grease they are absolutely going to be packed with.

Normally, bearings are designed for use with motors, load bearing shafts, etc. and free motion with very little mechanical load is not on the normal list of priorities.  So they get packed with heavy grease which stays put under high RPM and heat build up.  As this doesn't occur with trackballs, spinners, etc, the heavy grease is a hindrance and needs to be removed and replaced with something lighter to get a free spinning control.  Bearings bought from vendors who state they are for trackballs usually take care of this step, or special order bearings without the heavy grease.

Just wanted to make sure it was understood where the differences are in taking this approach.

RandyT

[spystyle]

So I suppose we should soak new bearings in some kind of degreaser and then lubricate them with some kind of oil?

[RandyT]

So I suppose we should soak new bearings in some kind of degreaser and then lubricate them with some kind of oil?

Yes.  We actually use ultrasonics to break it up with heated solvent and then use a vacuum chamber to pull the lubricant back into the bearings.  They don't call them "sealed bearings" for nothing, and it's not always easy to get that heavy goop out of there.  It can be done without all of the fancy stuff, but plan to spend a little time with them.

RandyT

[tightwad]

If you buy the non "zz" version (2rs for instance) the side covers to the bearings are removable, and you can remove the heavier grease for a light oil.



"The R4-2RS and R4-ZZ is a 1/4 ball bearing that is found in many applications. The R4-2RS ball bearing has two contact rubber seals one on each side of the ball bearing. The R4-ZZ ball bearing has two non-contact metal shields one on each side of the ball bearing. If your application requires a R4 ball bearing with only one seal or shield you can get this ball bearing and take one of the shields or seals off. This 1/4 inch ball bearing is high quality and can take electric motor demands if needed. "

[Xiaou2]

 You can use Radio Shacks  "Component Cleaner", to remove the grease inside
a bearing.   Its a little expensive, at $10 for a small can, but you wont need
much... and the stuff is great for many things.
 
 You simply spray some on top of the bearing... Let it seep inside.   After a few
secs,  start to spin it slowly with your finger... and gradually go faster.   Keep
spinning for about 60 seconds.

 Repeat on the other side.   Then flip it back over, and repeat each side again.
After 2 rounds, it should have removed the grease well enough to spin
forever.   If not... repeat the process a few more times.

 It may also be called "Electronics Cleaner".  Its a small white can, about 5" tall,
1.5" diameter.    Ive tried other such cleaners, and none are as good as the
RS brand.   The stuff is crystal clear, eats anything - then evaporates without
leaving a messy residue.
 
---

 I will add, that any bearings with more than a tiny bit of rust probably are not
worth trying to save.  If the balls or roller surface gets pitted,  the bearings
will not roll smoothly.  Also,  the tolerances are very tight... If they change,
the balls will be too loose, and also cause rolling problems.  Not to mention,
its one thing to soften and remove bearing grease from seeping in/out... but
quite another to try to remove large particles without removing the bearing
cover. Trapped particles of rust and steel will result in a bumpy roll, and or will
lock up the bearing at times.

[spystyle]

Thanks for the replies fellas

[SirPeale]

Or just soak them in a cheap solvent like gasoline.    It should dissolve the grease in short order.  Then allow to dry and give them a drop of 3-in-1.

[spystyle]

That seems good too

[RandyT]

Or just soak them in a cheap solvent like gasoline.    It should dissolve the grease in short order.  Then allow to dry and give them a drop of 3-in-1.

Just keep in mind that gasoline is a carcinogen and that the vapors are explosive.  If you use gasoline, or any other really nasty solvents, protect your skin and don't do it near any sources of ignition.

Also, just to accentuate the point, you want to really give it a good long time between steps for the gasoline to fully dry / drain from the bearings, as well as for the oil to soak in.  If you mix the oil with any residual gasoline, then the gas will make short work of also breaking down the oil (if it cuts the hell out of heavy grease, what do think it will do to wimpy light oil?)  The issue with these is always the fact that they are sealed, and getting stuff in or out reliably is a challenge.  The rubber ones may be easier to open (and they still aren't that easy), but I haven't seen any where the rubber isn't in some contact with the bearings and interfering with free movement under light load.


RandyT

[garnerb350]

Or just soak them in a cheap solvent like gasoline.    It should dissolve the grease in short order.  Then allow to dry and give them a drop of 3-in-1.

Just keep in mind that gasoline is a carcinogen and that the vapors are explosive.  If you use gasoline, or any other really nasty solvents, protect your skin and don't do it near any sources of ignition.

I agree with RandyT.
Note: enclosed photo attachment

[CheffoJeffo]

I missed most of this thread, but agree with both Peale and RandyT.

I've reconditionned a truckload of trackballs using Peale's techniques and never had one that didn't come back, including several from Atari football (although some of the rollers needed to be replaced).