Button number order!! Help me out!

[RedSquirrel]

I am soon to be wiring up my control panel but i need to find out some answers on the order of buttons.

I have a 7 button style neo geo layout out, with pinball buttons on either side.

Oh and by the way I am duplicating the 7th neo geo button. I want to use the 3 on the top row and the 7th button ie

 123
 456
4

Is this how I should order the buttons?

Secondly, what buttons should I assign the pinball buttons to? 1 + 2?

Thanks for any helpo?

[SirPoonga]

Many people do it like

  123
3456

OR

  123
7456

OR

123
4567

I reread your post, it sounds like you are doing something like

1234
  567


Yeah, pinball buttons can be whatever.  

[RedSquirrel]

Many people do it like

  123
3456

OR

  123
7456

OR

123
4567

I reread your post, it sounds like you are doing something like

1234
  567


Yeah, pinball buttons can be whatever.  

Well, I want to use the top three buttons along with a 4th button, but i am unsure on which button this needs to be.

[TheTick]

I would not make the pinball buttons 1 & 2.
1 is okay on the left if that's where player 1 is. Unless you install a switch to turn the right side off, your buddy is gonna be wasting your grenades (or whatever) hitting your #2 button.

Maybe something like Player 1-Button 1 on the left and Player 2-Button 1 on the right. And than change the key mappings for whatever pinball games or simulators you'll be running.

I get what you're doing with the #4 button. Its under the second row of buttons. That'll work fine... just make sure you remap the bottom row to 1-2-3 on your neo geo games.... or remap them to 2-3-4... and duplicate button #1

 123           xxx
 456    ->   234
1              1

[SirPoonga]

I would not make the pinball buttons 1 & 2.
1 is okay on the left if that's where player 1 is. Unless you install a switch to turn the right side off, your buddy is gonna be wasting your grenades (or whatever) hitting your #2 button.

A little paranoid, huh?

[TheTick]

"Just cause you're paranoid, don't mean they're not out to get you"

You don't know my friends. I have a two player control panel... this one jerk will actually reach over and start jerkin' my joystick (the one on the control panel   ).  Than he wonders why his head hurts and he's laying on the floor.  Hmmm... I need some of those aluminum balltop handles too.

Better safe than sorry.

[Howard_Casto]

For the record, since no one else seemed to mention it.  Your buttons are labeled backwards.  

it should be

 456
 123
7

or ect....

that way when you are playing games that only require a few buttons you don't have a whole row of buttons under your plam.  

[TheTick]

I think you got confused by the use of the numbering.... but he didn't want to wire a 7th button.

Good point though, should have about 3 different keyboard mappings (I personally wouldn't bother with the 3rd):
1) Street Fighter Style
 123
 456
x

2) NegGeo
 xxx
 234
1

3) Classic or (less than 4 buttons)
 xxx
 123
x

And than the physical wiring as follows:

 123         456
 456   or   123
1              4

[Aceldamor]

For the record, since no one else seemed to mention it.  Your buttons are labeled backwards.  

it should be

 456
 123
7

or ect....

that way when you are playing games that only require a few buttons you don't have a whole row of buttons under your plam.  

I've got mine like that for that exact reason.

[Frostillicus]

I have mine wired like :

456
1234  

and it works great.

[RedSquirrel]

I want 123 at the top, i think my fingers access them easier..

[jginiso]

I think you got confused by the use of the numbering.... but he didn't want to wire a 7th button.

Good point though, should have about 3 different keyboard mappings (I personally wouldn't bother with the 3rd):
1) Street Fighter Style
 123
 456
x

2) NegGeo
 xxx
 234
1

3) Classic or (less than 4 buttons)
 xxx
 123
x

And than the physical wiring as follows:

 123         456
 456   or   123
1              4

How do you setup/apply different keyboard mappings as mentioned above?

[TheTick]

Mame (Mame32 at least) has a directory for controller configuration. You modify the CFG or INI files that are in there. I had to do it anyway just to get 6 buttons working for player 2.
The default file has an example to apply mappings based on a filter. I think the example was for games manufactured by SNK.

[hulkster]

hmmm, i really messed up i guess cuz i didnt see my layout on any of your posts!  i have...

135
246
7

is that totally wrong?  i guess it will be when i play street figther right?

[RedSquirrel]

hmmm, i really messed up i guess cuz i didnt see my layout on any of your posts!  i have...

135
246
7

is that totally wrong?  i guess it will be when i play street figther right?

I dont think thats gonna work right, unless you manually alter settings in MAME.

[hulkster]

yeah i dont think it will work very well either!  cuz it doesnt!  i just got done changing the buttons to

123
456
7

thats more for a street figther style, and i play street figther a lot, so there you go.  

oh and just to make sure...the joystick is on the left of the buttons in everybodys layout they are showing right? like this..

II  123
     456
     7

[RedSquirrel]

yeah i dont think it will work very well either!  cuz it doesnt!  i just got done changing the buttons to

123
456
7

thats more for a street figther style, and i play street figther a lot, so there you go.  

oh and just to make sure...the joystick is on the left of the buttons in everybodys layout they are showing right? like this..

II  123
     456
     7

yeah joystick on the left is the norm. Unless you are left handed and want to put it on the right..

[TheTick]

hmmm, i really messed up i guess cuz i didnt see my layout on any of your posts!  i have...

135
246
7

is that totally wrong?  i guess it will be when i play street figther right?

I thought you were joking... still pretty funny though  

[SirPoonga]

fighter games will be like

123
456

Here's the wonders of ctrlr files
I use one of my hacks on my site to do this
button > 4
123
456

buttons <= 4
XX4
123

[hulkster]

hmmm, i really messed up i guess cuz i didnt see my layout on any of your posts!  i have...

135
246
7

is that totally wrong?  i guess it will be when i play street figther right?

I thought you were joking... still pretty funny though  

yeah yeah, shut up.

[djsting]

Ok, so to stir up the pot a little bit here I would like to ask about this also.  I have a 4 player CP where players 1 & 2 have 7 buttons and players 3 & 4 have 4 buttons.  I have a layout like this (where J=joystick):

P1 & P2                 P3 & P4
J   xxx                    J   xx
    xxx                        xx
  x

Now when hooking these up to the I-Pac4 should it be like this?

P1 & P2                 P3 & P4
J   456                   J   34
    123                        12
  7

Or should it be wired differently?  Next part is having this wired to the I-Pac as above should I, or would I need to, have different ctrl files to map these for different games?  For example as stated above 3 ctrl files for NEOGEO, Classic, and Street Fighter games.

[TheTick]

My old Ipac2 didn't support this, but the ones made after Aug'02 (?) support on-the-fly programming. Ctrl files are easier in Mame32.
If you're using a different front end, you can probably script it to call the Ipac utility and update the key mapping there.

If you're gonna remap it and physically wire each button to its own  terminal position on the Ipac, than it really doesn't matter what button # is which.

As for which buttons should be which buttons #s for certain games... just try some different layouts and choose the one you like for each game. Just cause Howard or someone else likes it one way, doesn't make it the right way. Do it however you want.

[djsting]

Ok, let me ask this.  If I do not remap any keys then how should my buttons be wired to the I-Pac4?  Same layout as I stated above.

EDIT:  I am running MAME32.

[TheTick]

If for no other reason, than keeping it simple... keep them all in order.

   1 2 3
4 5 6 7

Otherwise, re-read the thread and match up with the type of games you will play most... Capcom/Street Fighter, NeoGeo, Classic.

Keep in mind you WILL have to remap, cause MAME32 (and I think MAME) do not have default mappings for Butttons 5 & 6 for player 2. Player 3 and 4... if they are set at all, only 2 buttons.

[Howard_Casto]

On the fly programming is a super bad idea.  As much as I love the ipac and all of andy's products, on the fly programming doesn't work 100% of the time if you are doing it regularly.  (At least on most machines.)  Plus you have limited writes to the ipac.  

Suck it up and use ctrlr files.  

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok, so to stir up the pot a little bit here I would like to ask about this also.  I have a 4 player CP where players 1 & 2 have 7 buttons and players 3 & 4 have 4 buttons.  I have a layout like this (where J=joystick):

P1 & P2                 P3 & P4
J   xxx                    J   xx
    xxx                        xx
  x

Now when hooking these up to the I-Pac4 should it be like this?

P1 & P2                 P3 & P4
J   456                   J   34
    123                        12
  7

Or should it be wired differently?  Next part is having this wired to the I-Pac as above should I, or would I need to, have different ctrl files to map these for different games?  For example as stated above 3 ctrl files for NEOGEO, Classic, and Street Fighter games.

Answering your later reply, the layout above looks good as a default.

Answering the initial question - your layout is

  456
  123
7

Neo-Geo uses

   B C D
A

Unless you are comfortably using

  D X X
  A B C
X

You will want to use Ctrlr.ini files and re-map

[Tiger-Heli]

>My old Ipac2 didn't support this, but the ones made after Aug'02 (?) >support on-the-fly programming.

They supported it long before that.  Aug' 02 was about when the WinIpac software came out.  Before that you had to use IPACUTIL, but it would do the same things.

> Ctrl files are easier in Mame32.
>If you're using a different front end, you can probably script it to call >the Ipac utility and update the key mapping there.

You can, but it's safer, faster, and simpler, and easier all around to update it in MAME than in the I-PAC software.  I don't think there's any difference between Windows MAME and MAME32 as far as ctlr.ini files.

>If you're gonna remap it and physically wire each button to its own  >terminal position on the Ipac, than it really doesn't matter what >button # is which.

Good point.  I think this confuses a lot of people who are new to the Scene.

Consider Button X below:

X 2 3
4 5 6

I can wire Button X to P1B1 on the I-PAC, use the default I-PAC code set, use the Default MAME code set, and Button X will work as Button 1.

I can also wire Button X to the P2B2 terminal (S) on the I-PAC, re-program the I-PAC so P2B2 is left Ctrl, use the Default MAME code set and Button X will work as Button 1.

I could also wire Button X to the P2B2 terminal (S) on the I-PAC, leave the default I-PAC codeset, reprogram MAME (ctlr.ini files or INPUT-ALL GAMES) so P1B1 is "S", and Button X will work as Button 1.

Finally, I could wire Button X to the P2B2 terminal on the I-PAC, re-program the I-PAC so P2B2 is Q, reprogram MAME so P1B1 is Q, and again, Button X will work as Button 1.

So as you said, there are several ways of getting the desired results.

[Tiger-Heli]

Keep in mind you WILL have to remap, cause MAME32 (and I think MAME) do not have default mappings for Butttons 5 & 6 for player 2. Player 3 and 4... if they are set at all, only 2 buttons.

Just to nit-pick,

MAME has default keyboard mappings for Player 1 Directionals and Buttons 1 through 10, Player 2 Directionals and Buttons 1 through 4, Player 3 Directionals (which are the same as the I-PAC defaults for P2B5 through and P3 Buttons 1 through 3, and no P4 keyboard defaults.

EDIT:  That was supposed to be an "" not a smiley face with glasses!!!!

[Tiger-Heli]

On the fly programming is a super bad idea.  As much as I love the ipac and all of andy's products, on the fly programming doesn't work 100% of the time if you are doing it regularly.  (At least on most machines.)  Plus you have limited writes to the ipac.  
Suck it up and use ctrlr files.  

The writes are limited to 100,000 or 1,000,000 writes (I've seen both figures.  So if you re-programed your I-PAC 10 times a day, using the lower number, it might die in 27.4 YEARS.

However, I can change a ctrlr.ini file in 10 seconds, fix that game and all it's clones, copy the file and rename it for any other games that use the same set, Save and I am done, and MAME loads in the same amount of time that it did originally with the new set to go.

With reprograming, I have to open the I-PAC software, program and save a .cfg file (say 1942.ipc) write a 1942.bat file like this

Winipac.exe 1942.ipc (some options)
MAME.exe 1942 (more options)
Winipac.exe default.ipc (some options)
exit

Go into my front-end and tell it to run 1942.bat instead of launching straight from MAME.

And now that I've done this, MAME takes a few seconds longer to load and exit, b/c I have to wait for the I-PAC to be programmed.

Which would you rather do?

[jakejake28]

i have a fourth button in the same row as the top 4, so i dont move 123 to the bottom. i dont get to use my thumb, but i dont really care much.

ie...

1234
456