Historic Event Tonight?

[danny_galaga]

They have said they can not use a capacitor because they discharge too slow
for what they need.   As fast as a cap seems..  its still a bottleneck (for voltage I
believe), where as a battery yeilds instantly what they need for that moment
in time.

 As for Overunity, it does not have to be closed loop to be Overunity.  Amazing
how people dont seem to understand that concept.

 What they have said makes sense.  However, that does not mean Im gona lay
down cash either.  I am in no way qualified to be able to reproduce the effect to
test it for myself.

Xiao, a capacitor is the fastest discharging thing there is! I commend you for your open minded attitude. Maybe it's time to admit this is just some sort of publicity stunt?

Did anyone read my little explanation of why back EMF is actually good?

[RayB]

Did anyone read my little explanation of why back EMF is actually good?

I did, but couldn't that depend on the type of motor? This thing isn't a standard motor.  I've seen it called a "reluctance motor", and a variant of a "pulse motor". A couple people on Youtube have replicated it and though none claim to get more energy out than in, they do say it is extremely efficient (for what it does).

[Xiaou2]

Xiao, a capacitor is the fastest discharging thing there is!

"We need a perfectly flat current profile to cause the effect that we need - No capacitor can do that, simple fact - hence no capacitor. The battery that we are using does this, it has a very fast current rise time and holds the current steady during the pulse, this we need. Thats why we use it, no other reason at all."


 DG,

 My reply to Both - Is the exact same answer:  One who Thinks he knows it all,
simply spouts what he knows back like a tape recorder.   You are so wrapped up
in what you Think is going on, that you dont even read the details to find out
What they are doing differently and why.   Again, a defeated attitude... most
likely taught to you by the corrupted school systems.  Too bad.

 Weather or not Orbo proves to be a success is irrelevant compared to the poor
mindless citizens on this planet.  Humanity does not stand much chance with
mass attitudes like this...

 To "Think" ,is not merely to repeat what was recited and memorized.

[hypernova]

When did this change to a philosophical thread?

[Hoopz]

When did this change to a philosophical thread?

Started as that since there isn't any science involved. 

X just loves to preach when anyone has the audacity to question "science".   

[Samstag]

"We need a perfectly flat current profile to cause the effect that we need - No capacitor can do that, simple fact - hence no capacitor. The battery that we are using does this, it has a very fast current rise time and holds the current steady during the pulse, this we need. Thats why we use it, no other reason at all."

No capacitor can do that?  Simple fact?

You waste time arguing for this guy when you'd be better served spending that time learning basic electronics or physics.

[AtomSmasher]

To "Think" ,is not merely to repeat what was recited and memorized.

To "Think" is also not blindly following outrageous claims.

[danny_galaga]

Did anyone read my little explanation of why back EMF is actually good?

I did, but couldn't that depend on the type of motor? This thing isn't a standard motor.  I've seen it called a "reluctance motor", and a variant of a "pulse motor". A couple people on Youtube have replicated it and though none claim to get more energy out than in, they do say it is extremely efficient (for what it does).

My view is that it is 'efficient' only in the fact that it does little work. My example of going one step further and just using a huge flywheel that you spin and leave to its own devices illustrates the futility of making something that 'barely' works. Steorns device is just a fancier version of this



ANYTHING mechanical that purports to be perpetual motion is just a fancier version of that. And they all result in something really weak that doesn't quite work, because all the apparent inefficiencies have been trimmed away to make it 'perpetual'. The end result will always be something that isn't quite as good as a flywheel, which is patently not perpetual.

XIAO, prove me wrong. Buy a licence. It's chicken feed compared to the endless wealth you'll reap...

[SavannahLion]

Will you please stop photographing my house?

I get no privacy thanks to you paparazzi.

[danny_galaga]

DUH. That's a pencil drawing. And tell your wife to go slower when she's putting out the washing, it's hard to get an accurate representation when she's flitting about...

[Xiaou2]

You waste time arguing for this guy when you'd be better served spending that time learning basic electronics or physics.

 I merely stated what he said.   Is it true?  I dont know.  However, logically it
would seem that if it was not true, then there would have been a thousand post
disputing it from people who Did know.  There was no such post.

 

And they all result in something really weak that doesn't quite work

 Apparently, there is a device an artists made that uses magnets, a steel ball, and some
weights.. that is perpetual.   Its housed in a museum I believe.

 Correctly, you really couldnt capture any energy out of that system.


 However, what Strorn has discovered is vastly different.  To do with magnetic
interactions... which cause a gain of electrical output.   Scaled up to a much
larger size... its possible that it might be feasible to get usable energy out of such a
system.

 Im not saying the thing couldnt be a Scam.  However, if you add up all the details,
it points more towards 'They have something interesting here'.

 I dont blindly accept.  I merely have an open mind.


 

[danny_galaga]

 Apparently, there is a device an artists made that uses magnets, a steel ball, and some
weights.. that is perpetual.   Its housed in a museum I believe.


 

 

[Ed_McCarron]

 Apparently, there is a device an artists made that uses magnets, a steel ball, and some
weights.. that is perpetual.   Its housed in a museum I believe.


 

 

Yep.  Pretty much.  The 'something for nothing' crowd just refuses to get it.

Xaiou's World:

[Xiaou2]

 
Nevermind.  Im finding contradictory information on how long it had been running.
Still, its one heck of a device.



http://theorderoftime.com/science/free_energy/support-files/finsrud.html

[RayB]

Very cool pendulum effect.

The problem with devices like that one, AND the Orbo is that they likely can't be scaled up very much, like you say. The molecules that make up matter don't scale, and the world's gravity and other natural laws are constant. This means that certain effects won't just scale 1:1 (its not like scaling up a 3D model in a computer simulation). But I do look forward to seeing giant Orbos on Youtube. 

Here's an interesting implementation that's almost completely frictionless (but imagine trying to scale that up and keep it balanced the same, and have enough magnetic cushion, etc):


Anyone read italian?

[SavannahLion]

DUH. That's a pencil drawing. And tell your wife to go slower when she's putting out the washing, it's hard to get an accurate representation when she's flitting about...

Durn kids, git erf mah lawn! 'N' stop lurkin' et mah wife!

[danny_galaga]

Very cool pendulum effect.

That pendulum is a beautiful piece of art! There is somewhere another so called 'perpetual motion' machine in a museum that trumps that. I'll see if i can find it. Basically, its been going for a CENTURY or TWO! It consists of a bell that is rung once a minute (or hour or summink). The motive force is our buddy the capacitor. It's just a really big super efficient capacitor that discharges through the bell regularly. Eventually it will go flat.

Edit: a lead. it's called a 'Duluc dry pile' high voltsge source:

http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/emotor/duluc.html

edit 2: Got it! It's called the Oxford Bell:

http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume7/v7i3/long-run-7-3.html

Ooh! The 'pitch drop' experiment is in my town! I'll have to take a look sometime (",)


"At the moment the pitch drop is at the end of the most recent drop (which has not quite dropped) and so at its most interesting point in almost ten years, if you consider watching pitch flow interesting"

[Xiaou2]

FYI - Steorns Orbo device uses that same Magnetic Bearing setup... however,
their magnetic bearings are vertical instead of horizontal.

 Take a look at this & see what you think:

 

 
Full webpage descriptions:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/steorn/html/orboeffecten.htm


 As for scaling, If my understanding is correct..  the larger the rotar, the more pickup
coils you can put round the diameter.  From what I saw, it looks like there are
both the toroidal coils that drive the thing, as well as pickup coils which were mounted
above them on a different plane.

[Ed_McCarron]

Nevermind.  Im finding contradictory information on how long it had been running.
Still, its one heck of a device.



http://theorderoftime.com/science/free_energy/support-files/finsrud.html

Its a cool art piece, but from the artists page:

Reidar says the machine does stop on occasions but that this is not on a daily basis. To start the machine the pendulums are swung by hand, this puts an external input energy into the system, given that the machine does stop this means it is not over 100% efficient.

[danny_galaga]

Its a cool art piece, but from the artists page:

Reidar says the machine does stop on occasions but that this is not on a daily basis. To start the machine the pendulums are swung by hand, this puts an external input energy into the system, given that the machine does stop this means it is not over 100% efficient.

No ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- 

[Xiaou2]

Yet this was found on the page listed:

 "In 1996 the ball finally kept moving! This newspaper picture was shot when the machine ran for 6 weeks. And so is it running ever since, with some maintenance now and then. Maintenance: 1) cleaning the track. 2) Redo the resin fix of the magnet array in the base. "

 As I said, inconsistent data.

[danny_galaga]

Yet this was found on the page listed:

 "In 1996 the ball finally kept moving! This newspaper picture was shot when the machine ran for 6 weeks. And so is it running ever since, with some maintenance now and then. Maintenance: 1) cleaning the track. 2) Redo the resin fix of the magnet array in the base. "

 As I said, inconsistent data.

Sometimes artists say that a painting starts off with a perfectly clean, white canvas. The very first brush stroke makes it not perfect anymore, and every other brush stroke that follows is an attempt to make it as perfect as it used to be. I know i bang on about flywheels all the time, but all these attempts at perpetual motion (at least where there is mechanical action involved) are akin to the artists attempt to get back to the perfect canvas. The perfect canvas in this case is the humble flywheel. Everything else on this flywheel is superfluous. And like i say, the flywheel itself isn't a perpetual motion device. But it's the closest mechanical thing.

Think of it this way. If you put a disk in space, and spun it, what would happen? It would spin. And spin, and spin. It would seemingly do this forever thus fitting the idea of perpetual motion. But it won't spin forever. Even in space there are things that will collide with it, thus causing friction. Space dust for instance. Cosmic rays i don't think would have any effect, but over a long period of time, maybe other radiation could have an effect not dissimilar to spinning in air. Anyway, regular old dust and larger objects would slow it down over time. No idea of the scale, thousands of years? Millions? Still not perpetual motion. If it were though, you can't do anything with it, tapping into its spin will slow it down.

Now take that beautiful pendulum and put it into space with our spinning disk. They can have a sort of 'race'. Which would spin longer? The disk, with it's single moving part and no friction (not even a bearing, just set it spinning) or the pendulum, with it's hundreds of parts, each which takes energy to overcome the friction it inevitably creates?

[shmokes]

Your problem, Danny, if that is your real name, is that you just don't want to believe badly enough.   

[RayB]

Hey Danny, you were saying something about flywheels?

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/02/13/020209/Porsche-Unveils-911-Hybrid-With-Flywheel-Booster

[RayB]

Sorry to revive this thread again, but after a couple months of quiet since their "show" ended, they decided to issue their latest press release announcing the official opening of their developer program. Yesterday was April 1.

[danny_galaga]

Sorry to revive this thread again, but after a couple months of quiet since their "show" ended, they decided to issue their latest press release announcing the official opening of their developer program. Yesterday was April 1.

Wow, this has certainly been the most elaborate April fools set up i've ever seen. Well played Xiaou, you had us going there!

[Xiaou2]

Heh.   Those guys love to rile the non-believers/haters up... so its very suiting that
they actually release something on Apr1.    I personally wouldnt have chosen to do
that... but I understand why they did it.

 As for the tech...  there have been some interesting results from outside
experimenters on solid state (no moving parts) orbo designs.

 Will it prove to be real?  Only time will tell.

[shmokes]

How much time, lmao?

[Ed_McCarron]

Meh, two, three thousand years.

[Xiaou2]

 Im still waiting for the smart guys to tell us what and Who put the
universe here.  What designed and made "Consciousness" even possible...etc.

 Until you can answer that in great detail,  (not:  "It was always here"),
you are pretty much clueless to the full operations of the universe... and thus,
do not know every bit of what Is... and what Is NOT possible.

 Unlike yourself, I do not laugh at stupidity.  I feel sorry for it.
And such attitudes show very clearly... human stupidity, at its finest.

[shmokes]

Since nobody can satisfactorily explain to me the origin of the universe, I therefore believe in all things ridiculous.

[danny_galaga]

Hey Danny, you were saying something about flywheels?

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/02/13/020209/Porsche-Unveils-911-Hybrid-With-Flywheel-Booster

Now see, Xiaou, this is the sort of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that advances us. Ok, the idea of using a flywheel to store waste energy from braking has been around since the 70's. But this is brilliant. We waste a stack of energy in braking. And it takes a lot of energy to accelerate. So regenerative braking saves some of it. Now feed it back to two motors in the front wheels to boost you out of a turn. Bloody brilliant! About the only time you really need 4wd on a road car is when cornering. This way, you have 4wd at the only time you really need it, and the extra power (160hp!) is pure waste energy recycled.

This is the sort of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- you should be drawing our attention to Xiaou. People who are knuckling down and actually achieving stuff, instead of being all mystical n ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- to obfuscate their lack of success...

Edit: I should say that YOU are being all mystical to obfuscate Steorns lack of success.