Rotary Joysticks

[Inaba]

I've searched the forum, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for.

I currently have some HAPP Competition joysticks on my CP.  I'm looking at either building a new CP for 4 players, and making the 1/2 player joysticks rotary, or swapping out my current CP joysticks with rotary sticks.

What is the advantages and disadvantages of doing this, price not withstanding?  Should I be looking towards the HAPP optical or analog ones?  Or some other ones entirely?

I have a IPAC/2, IPAC/4 and Opti-PAC to play with.  But I would like to economize the I/Opti-PACs as much as possible.  IE - I don't want to be using an IPAC/4 where 1/4 of the ports are unused.

I'm perfectly open to building a new control panel, if someone has an idea.

As a side note ... for future reference - is anyone interested in buying my control panel prototypes for slightly over cost + shipping?  They are rough looking, and some of the wood cuts aren't entirely straight.  I'm not selling any right at this moment, but will be selling my first prototype in the near future, if there's a market.  It would come with all buttons/joysticks/wiring.  Is there a market for "less than perfect" CP's or is that a dead end?

[AlanS17]

Well I think that if most people are satisfied with a less-than-perfect control panel then they probably also don't fear trying it themselves. However, you will get something for the parts.

[Generic Eric]

I don't think you want the optical ones.  If I recall, those don't interface with the MK64 keyboard encoder, not sure about the druin interface.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong though.

In regard to selling your prototypes.  Just post a message in the Buy/Sell/Trade Forum.  If it sells, good.  If not, your not out anything other than the time it took to post the message.  Just take good picutes.

[kspiff]

If you go with 12-position rotaries, you will need Druin's interface.  I'm tempted to guess that you could somehow throw in analog rotaries using an I-Pac, but that is just a guess (and would require you to figure out how to wire it, even if it will work).

With 12-position rotaries you can play the Ikari series and a lot of other games that used SNK's LS-30 joysticks.. with the analogs, -- unless u_rebel can correct me with info about support in analogmame -- you're limited to the few games that used analog rotaries like Caliber 50 and TD Fever 1-2.  Wild Western, Tin Star, and Front Line use an entirely different 8-way 'rotary joy' and won't work with either -- once again, analogmame support may have been hacked, I dunno.

[cdbrown]

As you already have the optipac then go for the optical rotarys.  I have done the same 1/2 optical rotarys 3/4 happs supers.  I'm using an Ipac4 and have used up most of the inputs - more than the ipac2 could handle.  So for a 4P panel, use the Ipac4 and the optipac.

Can you fit the 3/4 joystick and buttons to your current panel?  If not then a new build is needed unless you don't have the funding, then you'll just have to miss out on 4 player fun.

Also, do you need the rotaries?  Do some of your favourite games use rotary joysticks?  I got them because I wanted to make a panel that will play a lot of games but haven't wired them up yet.

[Generic Eric]

It will support up to two 13 wire (12 position) rotary switches.
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50561800.htm
It does NOT work with the optical rotary sticks.

It also supports shift keys.

Ron.

Druins interface is not the only option.

[u_rebelscum]

With 12-position rotaries you can play the Ikari series and a lot of other games that used SNK's LS-30 joysticks.. with the analogs, -- unless u_rebel can correct me with info about support in analogmame -- you're limited to the few games that used analog rotaries like Caliber 50 and TD Fever 1-2.  Wild Western, Tin Star, and Front Line use an entirely different 8-way 'rotary joy' and won't work with either -- once again, analogmame support may have been hacked, I dunno.

Mame uses "DIAL" type inputs for all 12-way and analog rotaries; ie mame likes spinners for 12-way rotary and analog rotary games.  So analog rotaries are better supported by mame than 12-way rotaries.

However, MameAnalog+ 0.71.2 will have improved support for druid's and mk64's 12-way rotary interfaces.  Hopefully 0.71.2 will be up tonight, but it's looking more & more like tomorrow.  The user will be able to choose between using the mame standard spinner input or druid/mk64 interface input.

Analog+ has no improved suport for 8-way rotaries.  For mame & analog+, the easiest thing for this type rotary is a second 8-way stick with a trigger or thumb button.


General rotary (hardware) stuff:
Optical (aka analog) rotaries hook up to stuff like mouse hacks, optipac, and oscar's mouse hack.  This is the easiest route to go, as the mouse is very PC friendly, and mame is setup this way.

12-way rotaries hook up easiest to the mk64 encoder or druid's interface.  These interfaces work okay with mame, but MC-Escher's changes (to be included in analog+) are better fit for these interfaces than current mame.  You could hook one to a ipac-4 and take up 12 buttons and/or joystick direction slots, but to use this setup you'd also need to edit mame's source.  One of these days, this edit might also be included in analog+, but not yet.

[Inaba]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I will go with the optical ones and hook them up to the Opti-PAC.  I was hoping to avoid using an Opti-PAC and IPAC in the CP, but it looks like I'm going to have to do that to get what I want.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no 4 player rotary joystick games, correct?  IE - I'll be fine putting 2 rotary sticks on my 2 player panel - and leave the 4 play panel as standard sticks with an IPAC/4, correct?

The Rotary sticks are seen as a spinner by the Opti-PAC, correct?  IE - will I be able to hook up my Oscar Push/Pull spinner to the same inputs as one of the rotary sticks?

[Tiger-Heli]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I will go with the optical ones and hook them up to the Opti-PAC.  I was hoping to avoid using an Opti-PAC and IPAC in the CP, but it looks like I'm going to have to do that to get what I want.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no 4 player rotary joystick games, correct?  IE - I'll be fine putting 2 rotary sticks on my 2 player panel - and leave the 4 play panel as standard sticks with an IPAC/4, correct?

The Rotary sticks are seen as a spinner by the Opti-PAC, correct?  IE - will I be able to hook up my Oscar Push/Pull spinner to the same inputs as one of the rotary sticks?

Correct, no 4-player rotary games.

Correct, will look like a spinners to the Opti-PAC.

More general rotary info here:

http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/faq.htm#The Rotary Joysticks you mention are not available yet and I want to play IKARI! What should I do?

Thanks U rebel for adding MC-Escher's fixes to MAME Analog +

[Lilwolf]

SWEET!  Rebel!  Your going to add druin/MK64 support to ANALOG+!!!!

I've been trying to get to it for WEEKS now... (but really really busy... hopefully with something that people will like).

Is this going to be just removing the analog button support and hook the keys directly to the core?  Or the 12 buttons directly throught.

[Tiger-Heli]

SWEET!  Rebel!  Your going to add druin/MK64 support to ANALOG+!!!!

I've been trying to get to it for WEEKS now... (but really really busy... hopefully with something that people will like).

Is this going to be just removing the analog button support and hook the keys directly to the core?  Or the 12 buttons directly throught.

I think he's adding MC-Escher's fixes first, which is basically adding another button input for the rotary joysticks (like Druin's interface) for ROTATE RIGHT and ROTATE LEFT, and modify the code so the player moves one unit for each keypress, instead of rotating until the button is released, as in the current code.

[u_rebelscum]

SWEET!  Rebel!  Your going to add druin/MK64 support to ANALOG+!!!!

I've been trying to get to it for WEEKS now... (but really really busy... hopefully with something that people will like).

Is this going to be just removing the analog button support and hook the keys directly to the core?  Or the 12 buttons directly throught.

I think he's adding MC-Escher's fixes first, which is basically adding another button input for the rotary joysticks (like Druin's interface) for ROTATE RIGHT and ROTATE LEFT, and modify the code so the player moves one unit for each keypress, instead of rotating until the button is released, as in the current code.

Yup, adding left and right buttons that work like Tiger-Heli says.  Hooking the 12 buttons is for later versions.