I have a DEFENDER Cabinet to Work On !!

[Vicious Burger]

Looking at the artwork on the side,it was originally Defender,but then was changed to Tiger Road,and then to Street Fighter 2. One side has SF2 artwork,the other was totally painted black,so after removing some of it you can see bits of the artwork of all 3 games in the first photo
   
The vinyl stickers are going to be a pain to remove,it's really sticky and brittle at the same time so it breaks in pieces when trying to peel it off. Anyone have any ideas about removing that stuff? It'll get gunked up if i try to sand it off. If I can't get it off,I may consider covering the whole sides with plain black adhesive vinyl,but it would need to thick enough to hide anything under it. If anyone had done that let me know.

Its a gutted cabinet so I'm going to do something with it and post pics as i go.
           

[saurian333]

Nice, Defender is a cool cab!

Are you leaning toward MAME-ing or restoring?

Either way, read this concerning the stripping process:
http://www.davesclassicarcade.com/mario/renovation/mariorenovation.html#painting

Quick summary:  heat, paint thinner, and lots of scraping.  Sanding = sounds like a better idea than it is.

I haven't tried something like this myself, so if anyone else has suggestions...?  You might want to read some projects on the restorations board; those always involve removing old artwork and paint.  Covering it up sounds like an easy way, but you want your surface smooth before you try that.

[TOK]

Greatest game ever... When I play it I can't believe its from 1980. So far ahead of its time.
What else you got there, 69 Fastback? I had a 67 289 4 speed with front discs... It was kind of an odd car because it wasn't a GT but had every GT option except for grille lights. I still have the build sheet somewhere.

[spystyle]

I have Defender stencils that I got from Jason Inman, both full size and mini size reproductions. If you need some stencils I can figure something out. I'm not sure if Defender stencils are commonly available or not.

Stripping, re-painting, and re-stenciling would probably be a l lot easier than trying to restore painted artwork that's been painted over.

Congrats on a cool cabinet

Craig

[CheffoJeffo]

My 2 cents ...

- heat gun to remove the stickers, although some have reported good results with Citristrip
- from there, sand it down to the wood

Depending on what you want to do with the cab (I would throw one of jrok's Williams boards in there and make either a Defender/Stargate or full-blown MW), there are various options for artwork.

If you want Defender artwork, then go to pr0k for stencils:



If you want Defenderesque Williams MultiGame artwork, then go to rikiti for stencils:



 

[spystyle]

Oh, the stencils are commonly available Are they reusable or one time use? Jason Inman's are reusable so they could conceivably be rented out or swapped around.

[CheffoJeffo]

pr0k's looking at putting together reusable stencil sets  (stuff currently in stock is single use) and trying to gauge the pricing impact / demand. Rich (rikiti) only has single use I believe.

[Vicious Burger]

Thanks for all the replies. I think restoring it to its original condition is beyond me,and probably would end up costing too much getting all the right parts and then i doubt if i would know what to do with them all anyway. If it was still a working game complete with components inside but just shabby on the outside then I could do it,but I think I will do a MAME job on it as that is more within my capability,having done 2 before this.

For stripping the vinyl off,someone mentioned a heat gun,that might work. I used Citristrip but it only took off paint and didnt make a dent in the vinyl ! Heat guns are not expensive at Home Depot so I may go get one.

And for the question about the Mustang,yeah its a 69 Fastback with a 3 speed, 351 Windsor. In fact, I feel like taking it out for a spin today

[CheffoJeffo]

Heat gun WILL work. AFAIAC, it is a mandatory piece of equipment for restoration work.

I am curious to see how you will MAME it, but am afraid that you just may just MAME it to add another machine to your collection, which would suck. You have some really good options open to you (a Defender/Stargate MAME would be cool, although a waste given jrok's board) ... take some time to investigate while you are stripping and sanding.

Several years ago I advised a young (well, OK, he wasn't young) man to take the high road on what was to be his 3rd MAME machine. At the time, he chose to take the low road. Since then, however, he has seen the wisdom and now has an impressive gameroom.

Don't MAME simply because that is what you know.

[Vicious Burger]

Heat gun WILL work. AFAIAC, it is a mandatory piece of equipment for restoration work.
I am curious to see how you will MAME it, but am afraid that you just may just MAME it to add another machine to your collection, which would suck. You have some really good options open to you (a Defender/Stargate MAME would be cool, although a waste given jrok's board) ... take some time to investigate while you are stripping and sanding.
Several years ago I advised a young (well, OK, he wasn't young) man to take the high road on what was to be his 3rd MAME machine. At the time, he chose to take the low road.
Since then, however, he has seen the wisdom and has an impressive gameroom.

Well I'm not actually trying to make a collection of mame machines, the first one i did was more like a practice to see how it would turn out because i was fed up trying to play games on my PC with a keyboard. It's ok but I'm not overly pleased with it. I may just re-use all the controls from that one on the Def one,and sell the first cab. 
Second project I got the cab for free and did it for my brother in law for Xmas,because he liked the first one i did and doesn't stay off it when he visits.
Now I want to try and improve on my first effort,and when the Def cab almost fell at my feet, I couldn't pass it up, even though it was just an empty shell.
I know some people dont like the maming of arcade cabs, but this one was already gutted, so I'm not destroying a fully working classic arcade machine and tossing the components just to mame it.

But yeah,I really like those Defender stencils, and not too hard to do either by the look of it, I think that's what i'm going to go for, and with a Defender marquee, at least the cab would LOOK original (apart from the altered CP) and it would be ready to be put back to original working order at some point.

[spystyle]

If you restore the cabinet and make a nice MAME machine out of it you've still saved a classic cabinet. Then everyone wins

I recently restored a beat up and converted Gauntlet cabinet and MAME'd it - it's better than sending a broken TMNT cabinet to the dump (which is what it was before). Bondo, stripper, paint, markers, LCD, computer, and lots of work later and here is a nice machine with a thousand games on it :



I don't see why an expensive PCB with a single game and an expensive arcade monitor are more virtuous than a versatile computer and a sharp LCD monitor...

When were arcade machines ever virtuous anyway? They sucked all the quarters from our pockets! At least with a MAME machine my quarters are safe

Cheers,
Craig

[Vicious Burger]

If you restore the cabinet and make a nice MAME machine out of it you've still saved a classic cabinet. Then everyone wins
I recently restored a beat up and converted Gauntlet cabinet and MAME'd it - it's better than sending a broken TMNT cabinet to the dump (which is what it was before). Bondo, stripper, paint, markers, LCD, computer, and lots of work later and here is a nice machine with a thousand games on it :



I don't see why an expensive PCB with a single game and an expensive arcade monitor are more virtuous than a versatile computer and a sharp LCD monitor...
When were arcade machines ever virtuous anyway? They sucked all the quarters from our pockets! At least with a MAME machine my quarters are safe

Cheers,
Craig

Yeah if its already beat up and converted to something else,its better than going to the dump,thats the way i see it. And if anyone wants to see real destruction of arcade machines,watch Human Wrecking Balls on G4 in a couple weeks. THEN you'll see destruction. I don't know if i can bring myself to watch it though, even the trailer had me cringing !!
Sweet Gauntlet cab by the way !

[spystyle]

All sentimentality aside, speaking strictly from a technical standpoint, MAME and LCD is an upgrade to the old PCB and CRT tube - Controversial statement!

Anyway, whatever you decide make sure to have fun with your new arcade cabinet. It's that fun which distracts us from the monotony of the daily grind

[CheffoJeffo]

You definitely aren't doing anything wrong by MAMEing that cab, given the condition that it is in.

I guess I am sad to see people randomly MAME cabinets just because they happen to come across cabinets to MAME.

That particular cabinet has a purpose -- to play Defender.

Defender is not a game that lends itself to a normal MAME CP. Putting in a CP designed to properly play Defender and avoiding the temptation to adapt the cabinet to play "1000s of games" would be a good thing.

To spystyle, who has given the community much with his guides, I tip my hat, but suggest that perhaps he's missing the point of the suggestion that I was making.

jrok's Williams board is NOT an old PCB (hell, both of mine were manufactured last year ... is the computer that you would put in there as new ?), is NOT expensive and supports VGA, so could be used with an LCD (although I wouldn't do that). It is also not emulation, except for the sound, so the gameplay is accurate (which has been an issue with MAME). Installing one is WAY less work than installing a MAME box.

It's your cab and you will do what you want ... I'm just letting you know that there are easy and, to my mind, superior alternatives to what you may have had planned.

 

[spystyle]

Oh I can dig it Jeffo I was actually comparing the new guts in my Gauntlet to the original guts. I am not familiar with the PCB you suggested.

Also it's nice to hear that PCB works with VGA - I'm on a LCD monitor kick lately - they are so sharp and lightweight I'm convinced the completely succeed the old tubes.

So OK, I will check the Jrock kit out Coincidentally my brother is an original Defender fan from the 80's.

Have fun,
Craig

[spystyle]

I thought about it more, my biggest problem with PCB is there is only one game in there, usually.

A single arcade machine, when in an actual arcade,  is not especially big - so sure each cabinet can have one game in it.

But at home a single arcade machine is relatively huge - and for the amount of space it takes up it must be able to compete with the little Nintendo or PlayStation console under the TV.

Otherwise  that giant machine could eventually become a point of wife-contempt "I keep tripping over that damn Defender" and it can eventually become boring because it's only got one game.

But with a MAME machine there are so many games on it there must be a handful that each person enjoys, in fact there are so many that you can (practically) never really try them all. It's an entire arcade in one machine It's play value justifies the amount of space it takes up in a home.

Emulation always equals more - even Defender's actual control panel, with it's crazy 2-way vertical stick and seven buttons, can still play about 10 games. (I have built one)

Gauntlet's rather limited control panel, with an 8-way stick and two buttons per player can still play about 60 "4 player simultaneous" games and about 1000 other games.

An arcade machine is about the same size as a refrigerator - but would you keep a refrigerator in your home that only had one type of food in it?

I can understand and appreciate restoring a classic cabinet to it's original state - but I don't think it's practical or versatile enough to guarantee it's own survival.

Well that's my conclusion about PCB, but I am certifiably goofy so it doesn't really matter

I vote to have a Neo Geo control panel on the OP's Defender



I also vote to have a Neo Geo layout and a trackball added to my Gauntlet I'm going to build a new control panel!



Long live Neo Geo!

OK that's just my 2 cents, worth only 1 cent after tax

Cheers,
Craig

Edit : OK here is what a Neo Geo / Gauntlet CPO looks like :

[CheffoJeffo]

Craig ... first, a belated welcome back.

Second, I don't buy it ... a tasteful, themed MAMEing can be a beautiful thing. MAMEing just because you have a cabinet and want to *say* that you can play 1000s of games is not. If you want to have a single cabinet to play them all, then built a cabinet that is appropriate for that purpose. But then, i come from the side of the room where I choose not to justify those big boxes playing single 8-bit games ... because my damned phone can play more games ... it's the boxes that I like.

Third, you are correct ... anybody who would suggest putting an MVS-2-25 CP on a Defender *is* certifiably goofy.   

 

[spystyle]

I can dig it Jeff

It would be a bland world if we all had the same opinion  

Ultimately it's up to Saint  

I vote we let him rule us with an iron fist 

[drventure]

Yeah, if you're a big stargate or defender fan, it's pretty tough to come up with a Mame Cp that'll play them even close to decent, but still allow playing other games. There'll be compromises any way you go.

Swappable CP's or a dedicated cab would be about the only way to go to stay close to true.

[spystyle]

That's true - and a swappable panel on a Defender cabinet should be easy-peasy.

However if you consider the Multi-William's layout to be good enough for Defender, then I bet that layout would play Defender and 1000 other games (it's a pair of 8-way sticks and a bunch of buttons).



Though I'm not sure if Defender purist would accept that control panel ... We'll have to build one and make my brother play it I'm sure an 8-way stick feels a lot different than a 2-way vertical stick when playing Defender really fast.


Have fun,
Craig

[spystyle]

OK I called my brother to help define what an original Defender fan might be -

He claims to have spent in 1982, $4 per day, 2 hours a day, 5 days a week playing mostly Stargate.

Leaving the high score name "Southbound 97" on Stargate as it allowed for 20 characters. Or "Sue" on Defender as it allowed for only 3 characters. That was to make the others guys feel bad thinking some gal beat them

He could eventually play Stargate for over 1 hour on two quarters.  

He claims Pac-Man was all memory and Defender/Stargate was all reflex.

As for me? I was too young and played NES, this could explain my love for the 8-way sticks and multiple games

Have fun!
Craig

[spystyle]

...
If you want to have a single cabinet to play them all, then built a cabinet that is appropriate for that purpose...

By the way Jeff, in your opinion what cabinet is best for a multitude of games?

I always thought of the Defender cabinet as a pretty agreeable design. Especially for swappable panels - because it's control panel is the size of the cabinet's inside diameter - you could store multiple panels in the back - especially if using an LCD monitor as it is so shallow.

Yes an array of control panels stored in the back, like a Neo Geo layout, a Defender layout, another one with a trackball, another with a spinner, another with a 4 way, another with a steering wheel ... Yes an arcade machine that is like a transformer!

Also with a subwoofer in place of the coin door

Oh now I want to build that

[CheffoJeffo]

...
If you want to have a single cabinet to play them all, then built a cabinet that is appropriate for that purpose...

By the way Jeff, in your opinion what cabinet is best for a multitude of games?

If you are asking what manufactured cabinet I would recommend for a the largest multitude of games, then I tend to lean towards the big Midway uprights (and there are folks who would burn me for suggesting that), the Dynamo uprights (preferably with the big CPs as used on GT), the Capcom big blues (again, some people might burn me for suggesting that) or Dynamo showcases. Or something custom-built.

I may have been too harsh in my commentary in this thread ... I took the "I have a Defender to work on" a little too literally.

Defender is a pretty decent cab to put modular panels on (as opposed to, say, a Joust or Robotron with the wrap-arounds) and this one is gutted (hence, there is no crime in MAMEing this and I wouldn't condemn the OP for doing that). It is somewhat odd that I reacted so strongly because I don't even like Defender and have never been any good at it. I'm not even a Jarvis fanboy ... it's just something about the Williams cabs from that era that makes me hate to see them altered in any substantial form -- kinda like how I hate seeing Joust cocktails made into generic JAMMA cocktails even though they are perfect for simultaneous two-player horizontals. Defender is obviously less rare, so I guess it is my own personal arcade prejudice.

 

Having said that, there are alternatives beyond MAMEing that may be more rewarding, are aesthetically more pleasing and may lead to more preservation going forward.

On a related note, some cabinets don't lend themselves to generic MAMEing. I have no love for MsPac cabs and they are plentiful. However, I would never MAME one to play more than a handful of games simply because the cabinet does not lend itself to that purpose. It may seem odd, but I wouldn't hesitate to 60-in-1 (which is MAMEing) a MsPac since the cabinet does lend itself to play those games.

Ach ... to each his own and you and I definitely agree on the key point -- the owner should enjoy.

 

[spystyle]

It's cool Jeffo - I like hearing an intelligent counter viewpoint, it's thought provoking.

And I'm sure the OP likes to see what a wide array of choices he has.

He'll probably paint it yellow and convert it to a dedicated Pac-man just to spite us

[Havok]

+1 for the Jrok board with Multi-Williams setup. Just make sure to find a couple of 4" Wico joysticks if you go that route.

[Vicious Burger]

It's cool Jeffo - I like hearing an intelligent counter viewpoint, it's thought provoking.
And I'm sure the OP likes to see what a wide array of choices he has.
He'll probably paint it yellow and convert it to a dedicated Pac-man just to spite us

LOL !!

[Masterful Gaze]

I don't think there's any correct answer here. We all have our personal tastes and as long as the person that owns it is happy with it then I think it's all good. I was never all that great playing defender but it's still one of my favorites and if I had a defender cab to work with I would have to go full restoration with it regardless of the costs. That's just me though.

From my experience it costs about the same to setup a new Mame computer in a cabinet as it does to pick up the original pcb. Most of the rest of the parts you would have to buy anyway. I love MAME but at least for me there are a few games that just must be played in a dedicated machine with original hardware.

[saurian333]

If I had pretty much any original cab to work on, I would restore it.  But that's just because I haven't tried it yet.    When I decide it's time for a MAME upright, I'll build my own.  That will probably be shortly after my cocktail is done. 

But that's me personally.  I assume some people would prefer to start with at least a base, like a gutted cab that needs a few pieces, to build their MAME machine with.  I don't have a problem with that, unless it's something really rare, or something I have a personal attachment to.  In that case, it's still just the cab itself I like seeing restored.  Great example is that Gauntlet cab spystyle posted (sweet cab, by the way).  I love Guantlet, and if I'd been in that position, I'd have done the same thing.  There's no way I'd want to see that as anything other than a Gauntlet cab.  The insides, however, don't matter to me as much.  Although I do like to see original PCBs for completeness' sake in a restoration, a dedicated cab really isn't practical for many people, and I completely empathize with that.