The Corner Arcade (Planet Arcade)

[yo1dog]

Oh, my bad

I think I misunderstood what you meant by "perspective". I thought you were referring to each team having their own screen. I think you meant two teams playing the same game but seeing a different parts of the game. Is this correct? In that case, no, I don't plan on having support for such games. I didn't even know they exist. Perhaps I will work on this after sense that would be a software problem.

2b. is what I am going for. I already have the parts for the computer including a 2.4 GHz intel Quad Core and an nVidia 8800 GT 512MB as well as 4GB of DDR2 RAM at 800MHz. Also, remember that most games run at low resolutions.

I am pretty confidant in my coding abilities, considering my job is to write native windows applications. I am also very familiar with both DirectX as well as OpenGL. I don't want to sound cocky but I bet I can do this . I do agree that there is no way around using two threads, one for each emulation.

Thanks for the luck! I will probably need it

[saurian333]

I think the system you're putting in there should handle 2 instances at once, for the most part.  I haven't actually tried it, but I have noticed that on my 2GHz C2D notebook that MAME running a game like MK3 or so uses about 80% of one core.  If you don't plan to run 2 instances of SF4 or something, you should be fine.

Yes, I believe by "each team [having its own] perspective," he meant "different parts of the game," the same game.  As is the case in, say, a multiplayer network game.

If you just want a duplicate display of the same game for each team, that would be easily done by simply using nVidia's "clone" option for multiple desktops.  Similarly, wouldn't it be simpler to use DualView for two separate instances?  I guess I'm a little fuzzy on what mods you're making to the MAME software that couldn't be accomplished with normal video settings.

I'm a programmer and open-source advocate myself, so don't think I'm discouraging the modding!  I personally tend to take the easier route with things like this (especially with DirectX and such, which I know almost nothing about).  I'm really just interested in exactly what changes you are making, and how they improve on the easier method.

[yo1dog]

The tricky part is giving the players the ability to switch the 2/4 player modes. It should be able to be done with a single button or menu option. Basically the player shouldn't have to do any work. Also, the input has to be able to go to both emulations at the same time. The way MAME is now, this is not possible.

[saurian333]

OK, I see.

What I was proposing would be one emulation with a duplicated screen.  But that only works for 4 players on the same game.  I guess if I was faced with that problem, I'd set up a hotkey to switch between clone and Dualview modes, and hope that each MAME instance keeps its monitor affinity (or figure a way to force it on startup).

But I still don't quite understand why control input needs to go to two separate instances at once...?  Maybe I'm just having trouble visualizing the result.

[yo1dog]

Hmm let me make a quick picture... (2 minutes later)

Oops It is supposed to say Team 1 Controls and Team 2 Controls...


The top shows it in two player mode. Player 1 and 2's controls must be registered by the emulation displayed on the first screen (Emu 1) while Player 3 and 4's controls must be registered by the emulation on the second screen (Emu 2). The bottom shows in four player mode. All Players' controls must be registered on the only emulation (Emu 1) which is simply displayed on both screens.

[saurian333]

OK, that's basically what I thought you were saying.  I think I see what it is you're doing with the MAME code.

Is it turning out to be fairly easy to do that, though?  I would think it would be simpler to write a frontend.

You'd choose between 1/2 teams in the frontend.  It would launch a single instance for 1-team, and 2 instances for 2-team.  In the latter case, it would pass whatever arguments are required to display each instance on the appropriate screen, as well as specify a configuration file for each (for mapping controls).

In modifying MAME, are you spawning two individual emulations from a single MAME process?  I suppose that could be a bit more efficient than running two separate instances, but I'm not entirely sure.  I don't even know that it matters on a quad-core.
Nevermind, just went back again and saw that you had said "two copies of [the] modded MAME program."

[yo1dog]

Like I keep saying, there really is no way around rewriting some of the code. Not major parts but still. Here is why:

• In fullscreen mode, the emulation's window must have the focus to accept input and, of course, you cannot have the focus on two windows at once.
• The emulation's window must have focus to remain in fullscreen mode.
• When switching 2/4 player modes, you also have to switch the controls for each emulation. When switching to 2 player mode you have to tell the first emulation not to use player 3 and 4's controls and you have to tell the second emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 1 and player 2. When switching to 4 player mode you have to tell the first emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 3 and player 4.
• When switching to 4 player mode you have to close the second emulation (or pause and hide it) and when switching to 2 player mode you have to create the second emulation (or resume and show the last).
• Changing the resolution, positioning the windows, and setting the display modes will be much easier done through native Windows code.

None of this is super complicated, though I keep running into some dumb problems.

[yo1dog]

Anyone know where I can get a 3" clear crystal sphere to use as a trackball? I think that would look so cool with some lighting underneath!

[JohnEDollar]

yo1dog:

Nice concept!  Let us know how this "baby" turns out for you.

Great idea!

[yo1dog]

yo1dog:

Nice concept!  Let us know how this "baby" turns out for you.

Great idea!

Thanks man!

I am currently working on increasing the radius by 5". This allows me to have a much bigger screen. I am also re-working the control panel so that players 1 and 4 are farther away from the wall.

[drventure]

3" trackball. Check out my thread (link in the sig) for some info on trackballs. I found that just going out and buying a 3" acrylic sphere WON"T necessarily get you something you can use as a trackball (they aren't necessarily true).

But I'm pretty sure HAPP, or GGG, sells the balls by themselves.

[yo1dog]

Hmm. Interesting stuff. Very cool project as well.

I am liking the Electric ICE with the RGB-Overdrive. I can make some cool computer-controlled effects with that. I think I am going to incorporate some lighted pushbuttons as well. Haha I could turn the control panel into a light show.

[saurian333]

Like I keep saying, there really is no way around rewriting some of the code. Not major parts but still. Here is why:

• In fullscreen mode, the emulation's window must have the focus to accept input and, of course, you cannot have the focus on two windows at once.
• The emulation's window must have focus to remain in fullscreen mode.
• When switching 2/4 player modes, you also have to switch the controls for each emulation. When switching to 2 player mode you have to tell the first emulation not to use player 3 and 4's controls and you have to tell the second emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 1 and player 2. When switching to 4 player mode you have to tell the first emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 3 and player 4.
• When switching to 4 player mode you have to close the second emulation (or pause and hide it) and when switching to 2 player mode you have to create the second emulation (or resume and show the last).
• Changing the resolution, positioning the windows, and setting the display modes will be much easier done through native Windows code.

None of this is super complicated, though I keep running into some dumb problems.

OOHHHH I see now.  I completely hadn't thought about the fullscreen/focus problem.   

That totally makes sense now.  I can't think of another way around that, either.  Switching controls would still be pretty simple using a frontend to load different config files, but I guess it's just as easy to put it in the MAME code since you're already in there anyway.

I got you now.  Sorry about that. 

[yo1dog]

No problem my friend.

Originally I was writing a fronted and thought of the same thing. Great minds...

[Aceldamor]

Just stumbled onto this...great concept, and I look forward to it's progress!

I do have a sound based question however..how do you anticipate dealing with sound bleeding over from one person playing a game to the other who is playing a separate game, short of headphones?

[Gamester]

I do have a sound based question however..how do you anticipate dealing with sound bleeding over from one person playing a game to the other who is playing a separate game, short of headphones?

Heh.... ever been to a real arcade before?  

[yo1dog]

I do have a sound based question however..how do you anticipate dealing with sound bleeding over from one person playing a game to the other who is playing a separate game, short of headphones?

Heh.... ever been to an arcade before?   

Haha. This made me laugh.

My father is also very good with acoustics and my grandfather is even better. They are going to help me build a casing for the speakers to help direct the audio.

This brings up another issue that I forgot to mention: The splitting of the audio for each team. I plan to use a 4.1 or 5.1 speaker set and make MAME output the left and right audio for team 1 to the front left and right channels and output team 2's audio to the back left and right channels. Because the sub is centered, it can be shared. Plus arcade games don't use much base anyway.

Or, I could keep it simple and only have two channels and MAME would output team 1's audio through the left channel and team 2's through the right... but then each team would only have mono sound instead of stereo. Not sure how many arcade games use stereo.

[drventure]

About that two teams hearing each other's sound, I've always wanted to take a gander at this device

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2003-05-19-hss_x.htm

Not even sure if anything based on it is available yet to consumers, but it should LOOKS cool.

[yo1dog]

Wow! That is really cool!

[DCsegaDH]

I'm going to be watching this project, It looks very interesting!

[yo1dog]

Well some bad news. The actual construction of this project will be delayed till this summer. This is due to my current lack of funds (Had to buy textbooks). The school also moved me to a new dorm room which is smaller. I will be moving into a house next semester so I should have room then.

But, this could also be good news. I have plenty of time to work out the details and save some cash. After months of working on this thing it should be just about perfect.

Bear with me guys.

[chrisdfw]

I believe people used to use a program called kaillera to play games like 4 player Cyberball in MAME against each other so each screen would be running from its own perspective on seperate computers.

http://www.kaillera.com/

I also think I may remember mame adding a way natively to span Cyberball across 2 screens with one computer and have each screen be from its own perspective.

It's definately worth looking into.  Search the forums for Cyberball and you may find old posts about this here.

[yo1dog]

I will look into it, but it looks like that is for the same game from two perspectives. I need to be able to player two different games.

[yo1dog]

Updates! Check the first post.

[Gamester]

Great job on the changes!  Those design improvements will boost the playability significantly.

Yes, the art can still be improved, but you've apparently got lots of time to work on it...

It's a shame that the build is being delayed, but this will give you plenty of time to perfect things.  Looking forward to seeing the finished product some day...  

[bgspot]

!!...wow i feel late on this one. In terms of originality this one is at the top of my list. I hope to see this one completed.

[yo1dog]

Thanks for the support! Always appreciated

[saurian333]

Hey man, sorry to hear about the delay.  I know what a bear it is when you get the itch to build something and you can't do anything about it.

But like you said, it gives you plenty of time to work out the kinks before you start.  For a project like this, you definitely don't want to rush!  Take your time and make everything right.

Meanwhile, you have time to work on the artwork and programming!  Your different credit mode ideas sound pretty cool.  I particularly like the "credit buffer" idea.

By the way, I checked for 4:3 LCDs on a couple of my favorite sites, but I'm afraid I didn't find anything that will help you.  Seems 20" is about as big as they get.  I've seen sources for those for well under $100 each, though, if you're interested; by the time you get closer to building, they should be even cheaper.

[yo1dog]

Ya it sucks pretty bad.

I am going to look at some designs to fit a larger widescreen monitor that I will turn vertically. I'll see if I can get the same width as a 4:3 22".

Edit:
eh... maybe not

[saurian333]

I am going to look at some designs to fit a larger widescreen monitor that I will turn vertically. I'll see if I can get the same width as a 4:3 22".

A pair of 22" 4:3s would be about 32" wide, if I'm doing my math right.

For a 16:10 that wide, you'd be looking at a 37" or so.  That pretty much means an HDTV, which will run you in the neighborhood of at least $400 on a good day (I've actually been looking for one around that size at 1080p; not easy to find).

If you're really trying to do it vertically (a pair of them, I presume?), you're going for a pair of 32"s (each would be 16" tall when horizontal).  Cheaper of course, but even harder to find at 1080p.

Good prices on 24" (widescreen) monitors are around $200.  I have seen one monitor that was 32" and the price was ridiculous, but I never saw it anywhere other than Best Buy.

A 40-42" LCD is much easier to find in 1080p, and not much more expensive than a 37" ($500-700 last time I was looking).  I think a single one of those, horizontally, would be good for your purposes.  Problem there is that you'd need to split the screen rather than output to two monitors, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know; I'm just throwing that out there.

[yo1dog]

Ya I figured all that out which is why I decided to scratch that idea.

[yo1dog]

I think I am done with my modded MAME. I can run and play two emulations in fullscreen at once as well as display the same game on multiple monitors. It was actually a lot easier than I originally thought.

[Gamester]

Very cool!

Curious what you're going to do for a Front End?

[yo1dog]

I still need to write that. The question on that is if I decide to go with the touchscreen idea it needs to be written with a touchscreen interface rather than a joystick/spinner/trackball as is conventional.

As far as the actual execution of MAME; When launching in 4 player mode it will run:

Code: [Select]

mame.exe %ROM% -numscreens 2This will use the default controls configurations and display the same game on both screens.

2 player mode will run:

Code: [Select]

mame.exe %ROM1% -cfg_directory cfg1 -screen 0
mame.exe %ROM2% -cfg_directory cfg2 -screen 1This will start an emulation on each screen and use the appropriate controls for each emulation.

I am going to work with the MAME source some more to see if I can use the external front end program (which will be running on the touchscreen) to change games without closing and reopening MAME.

[saurian333]

I think I am done with my modded MAME. I can run and play two emulations in fullscreen at once as well as display the same game on multiple monitors. It was actually a lot easier than I originally thought.

That's awesome!  How's the performance running two at once on one of the more demanding games?

[yo1dog]

Haha I don't know actually. I should try that out sometime.

[yo1dog]

Update!

Finished the visual part of the Front End program. See the first post.

[HanoiBoi]

Funny...I've been trying to talk a buddy, who has a Tron cabinet, into making it dual sided.  His original thought is to stick one player controls in it due to the wall-like sides.  I said, "Hey, why not build back to back one player MAME machines and somehow (?) link them for the two player games"... that don't require a specific perspective.  Joust, Hat Trick, Trog, Track and Field, etc.

The reason I thought of this was the shape of the Tron cab.   If I'm not mistaken, I believe the elongated keystone shape is symmetrical.

It would give you two cabinets in the space of one.  Of course, this might not fit well into a row of machines as it would be sideways against a wall, but if it's the only cab, it would be fine.

On this Corner Arcade, I agree with the earlier thoughts; moving it when needed will be tough and is there a real need for 4 players.

[yo1dog]

Update! Check first post.

[drventure]

First, Damn, dude. Impressive Sketchup skills there. I like where you're going with this design.

and

is there a real need for 4 players.

. Is there "really" any need for just about anything on this entire site? 

I like it. the size allows you to put more "dedicated arrangement" controls on that top level, without things getting cramped or totally stupid looking. The corner arrangement is pretty slick. your scale looks much better now. Heck, even the artwork is nice and understated, which is good considering the size of that beast.